Does where you do your IPPE rotation matter?

[bobbitybob]

My sister is doing her IPPE's soon and she had me ask around at the top 5 hospital I work at. However, she ended up finding one at a local hospital before I got the contact info for the preceptor. Should I push her to still contact the hospital I work at or should I let her work at the local hospital. I only worry because she could really network at the top hospital and maybe do her appe and possibly have a higher chance of getting a residency position there?

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[297point1]

Your sister's school makes her find her own IPPE site?

Yikes. I can't envision any quality control issues with that arrangement.

 

[Lnsean]

Probably not. She could also run the risk of looking bad at that site as well.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

IPPE’s don’t matter, since you don’t spend enough time at the site for them to really get an impression of you. Even if you did, IPPEs are done in your P1 -P2 year when you haven’t taken therapeutics yet, so you don’t have enough foundational knowledge to contribute to anything “clinical” anyways.

I would suggest figuring out how APPEs are assigned and developing a strategy around obtaining APPEs in your desired hospital instead. Assuming you have to set up your own APPEs (and it’s not random through a lottery like many schools do it), a more practical approach would be to find an internship with the hospital or participate in club events that involve preceptors from the hospital to “network”.

 

[bobbitybob]

Cool, thanks for the replies!

 

[Litha]

Your sister's school makes her find her own IPPE site?

Yikes. I can't envision any quality control issues with that arrangement.

Haha...my school made us do it too. It was awful cold-calling dozens of pharmacies and getting turned down to be an unpaid volunteer. And this was 5-6 years ago.

 

[Rxaunt]

Just an FYI for maybe having her do a future APPE with your hospital you might want her to do some ground work with her school about if they need to declare that they are related to someone that works at the hospital. I believe at my school if you knew someone that worked at site you have to somehow declare it. That way it doesn't come out later and there ends up being questions about if grading was fair etc. I don't believe it was ever a huge problem but I know it was something we were cautioned to declare otherwise it could be bad news. I also completely agree IPPEs do not matter for the most part I am about 100% sure no one that I did an IPPE with would remember me at all. However most if not all my APPEs would have written me a letter of recommendation if I needed one.

 

[PharmRX0308]

My sister is doing her IPPE's soon and she had me ask around at the top 5 hospital I work at. However, she ended up finding one at a local hospital before I got the contact info for the preceptor. Should I push her to still contact the hospital I work at or should I let her work at the local hospital. I only worry because she could really network at the top hospital and maybe do her appe and possibly have a higher chance of getting a residency position there?

I think a better scenario to consider is to complete both of your IPPE and APPE at the same site. That way, you are better prepared to go into your APPE by already feeling familiar with their computer system, the staffs, and workflow. The benefit of that is you can start working early and not spending too much time on computer training/ orientation. On their end, they may also feel more comfortable having you since you are with them long enough for them to know/trust you (they see you develop from a naive IPPE student into a knowledgable APPE intern/ future pharmacist). You may also show them that you like them (that's why you come back for APPE) and you are strongly interested in working for them.

Drawback:
1. Your performance needs to be really impressive and you must convince them to love you otherwise it's just a waste.
2. If you choose to go down this path, you basically just sacrifice an opportunity to work for a new hospital and learn from a new preceptor. This also means you just cut down your network a little bit.

Solution:
- Pick the same IPPE and APPE rotations at the same site, BUT have different preceptors and different roles. (e.g. IPPE in their community pharmacy and APPE in their critical care department)
- Still need to be an impressive student

 

[MindGeek]

I think a better scenario to consider is to complete both of your IPPE and APPE at the same site. That way, you are better prepared to go into your APPE by already feeling familiar with their computer system, the staffs, and workflow. The benefit of that is you can start working early and not spending too much time on computer training/ orientation. On their end, they may also feel more comfortable having you since you are with them long enough for them to know/trust you (they see you develop from a naive IPPE student into a knowledgable APPE intern/ future pharmacist). You may also show them that you like them (that's why you come back for APPE) and you are strongly interested in working for them.

My school created 'umbrella programs' for three different health systems that allow you to complete all core rotations and most or all elective rotations within one health system. You had to apply for them like they were a mini-residency. Transcript reviews, essays, interviews by the resident directors and current residents, etc. Getting into an umbrella program gives a residency director from May through December to see how you perform for them before they have to rank you for a PGY-1. That is a big advantage over students that may only get seen during PPS. Anecdotally the students that got into the umbrella programs did match for residencies at their umbrella site. Obviously being successful in an IPPE at one of the umbrella's sites would be favorable to your application.

I completed three rotations with one hospital, across three different years: a hospital IPPE, a core health health system APPE and an adult critical care elective APPE. This was beneficial to me in several ways. I got to see a lot of progress as an organization. For example, I was there before they switched from paper charts over to EHR. I got to meet the residents that were selected months before they started. I got to show them pointers on the EHR and process and just 'how things are done' before they started to assign me my tasks, carefully. I also got to work with three sets of their resident classes so I knew what was within realm and what was out of bounds. That makes me sound entitled but let me explain... I knew where I could add the most value to their days by rounding selectively and completing tasks that were coming down from the administrators or the system-at-large and I was able to volunteer for those instead of getting assigned tasks that did not require as much on-the-job experience or health system knowledge, or busy work, or journaling. Guess who ended up with those? The one-off students that had not been there before and were not scheduled for any rotations afterwards.

One of my biggest pet peeves on that IPPE was a nearby school that did not assign their hospital IPPE students to perform a set of certain activities and write up report-style assignments over the four weeks. They only had to journal, privately, and periodically unload it to their school's portal. Naturally they did not ask to do anything 'special' or extra and were likely promptly forgotten by both the clinical staff and staff after they departed, including some that they were never pressed to interact with.

 

[297point1]

One of my biggest pet peeves on that IPPE was a nearby school that did not assign their hospital IPPE students to perform a set of certain activities and write up report-style assignments over the four weeks. They only had to journal, privately, and periodically unload it to their school's portal. Naturally they did not ask to do anything 'special' or extra and were likely promptly forgotten by both the clinical staff and staff after they departed, including some that they were never pressed to interact with.

Why is this a pet peeve of yours? You got a good experience, and the students from the other school didn't.

I hear this from our APPE students all the time - school X's students are at the same site with me, and they don't have to do this or that, they never show up on time, always leave early, and are generally useless. My response: "Aren't you glad you didn't go to school X?"

 

[MindGeek]

Why is this a pet peeve of yours? You got a good experience, and the students from the other school didn't. I hear this from our APPE students all the time - school X's students are at the same site with me, and they don't have to do this or that, they never show up on time, always leave early, and are generally useless. My response: "Aren't you glad you didn't go to school X?"

Great point @297point1 . I meant that it bothered me so during my IPPE. I am certain that my APPEs went smoother than those students' and that I am more successful today than those students. My school had a great reputation in the site that I did three rotations at because we were so task-oriented and hands-on. From what I can tell they did not take on any IPPEs or APPEs from one lax school in particular, in between my staggered tenure. IPPEs and APPEs need to add some value to the pharmacy department in one way or another, not just shadow and leave. Every second you are on site is part of a long, protracted interview.

I only worry because she could really network at the top hospital and maybe do her appe and possibly have a higher chance of getting a residency position there?

Why can't she do both @bobbitybob ? She should keep the IPPE she has lined up herself and then try for an advanced IPPE or APPE at your 'top' hospital. What looks better to a potential residency director? That they did all of their rotations at one site, or that they did three rotations with one health system and three with another health system? She needs to show that she is adaptable to different organizations, different leadership, and different situations. What if she gets declined by your 'top' hospital for a PGY-1 at the end of this road? She will have invested too much in them. The rule of thumb should be: What looks good to a potential hiring manager after not matching for any residency?

tldr: if the 'top' hospital you work at doesn't already have a contract with her school, it is going to take months if not a whole year to get it through your hospital's risk management department, and she'll miss the deadline for creating new rotation sites anyway. Even if her school pays for preceptors, provides its own malpractice insurance, and has workers comp-like coverage for the interns, it is still a high hurdle.

 

[lord999]

Did things change where you now network at IPPE and APPE experiences? I don't recall the vast majority of the rotating student except in extreme cases.

Also, it is far more important to get a diversity of experiences rather than good or easy ones. The rotation I learned the most at was the one that I made a career enemy at due to not politicking, which still drives my attitudes toward work and power. My initial practice choice was due to a surprise reassignment to something that I thought was not for me but really enjoy today in the rare occasions when I get permission to practice. They'll be plenty of time to do what you want, but the rotations are a one time opportunity to sample other workstyles.