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Doesn't make any sense...

MaximusD

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    Got put on an alternate-select list for the USAF. That's right, the military is turning away physicians.

    I'm really surprised... My recruiter (one of the few good ones) said they had "110" cut spots due to the bonus. Could this be true? Or was he trying to make me feel better?

    Oh, and in general, ****. I haven't applied to any scholarships... no financial aid... no job for the summer in anticipation of COT.

    Any comments?
     

    The White Coat Investor

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      Got put on an alternate-select list for the USAF. That's right, the military is turning away physicians.

      I'm really surprised... Recruiter said they had fewer spots due to the bonus. Could this be true? Or was he trying to make me feel better?

      Oh, and in general, ****. I haven't applied to any scholarships... no financial aid... no job for the summer in anticipation of COT.

      Any comments?

      I'd still expect to be selected. Who else will sign up?
       
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      MaximusD

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        I was really ready to do this. I've had it in my mind for the last 4-5 months that this was what I was going to do for the next 7-8 years of my life. What a slap in the face...

        My recruiter said they'd update me next week. I'm not too far down on the alt-select list, but maybe just far enough...
         

        i want out

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          I was really ready to do this. I've had it in my mind for the last 4-5 months that this was what I was going to do for the next 7-8 years of my life. What a slap in the face...

          My recruiter said they'd update me next week. I'm not too far down on the alt-select list, but maybe just far enough...

          I don't know if you believe in a higher power, or God or whatever you want to call it. But perhaps this is one of those times when you should thank God for unanswered prayers.

          Personally I believe that God answers all prayers, its just that sometimes the answer is no.

          While I understand your feeling dejected and down from this "slap in the face" perhaps you should take it as a cue to go a different path.

          I want out (of IRR)
           

          BOHICA-FIGMO

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            Man, the USAF is infamous for making absolutely, positively, boneheaded personnel decisions. Mark my word, they WILL face a shortage of physicians in 4-8 yrs without a doubt. Same thing happened in the ops world in the 90's.

            Might I suggest that the Navy (as far as I can tell, so far) doesn't have their collective head jammed as far up their...as the folks making decisions in the USAF. At least they are pretty straight forward about the things that can suck (e.g., GMO). If you are dead set on being military, I'm sure the USA and USN would be glad to have you.
             

            trail doc

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              Any comments?


              I was in your situation about 8 years ago. I called the Navy recruiter and am pretty happy about how it's turned out. I still complain about my job, but not nearly as much as a lot of the folks on this site....and also about as much as if I'd stayed civilian. If you were ready to accept being a military doc, the branch won't make that big a difference.

              But the Navy is still better.
               

              pgg

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                Any comments?

                Sounds like some Navy guy could make a quick $2000 and 1/2 a NAM by getting you into a Navy slot. :)

                The Air Force has always filled up before the Army or Navy. Even while the Navy has gone 50% unfilled the last couple years, the Air Force met their recruitment goals. Don't take it personally.
                 

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                  Navy is where it is at. :) I had similar experience, a sort of a "slap in the face" which I wont elaborate on during ROTC, but don't take it personal. There is this huge lumbering bureaucracy which is so monolithic it doesn't really care about the individual person.

                  While this sounds insanely idealistic and naive, think that the AF (or Navy or Army) families you would help will appreciate your services. And focus on that instead of the "slap in the face".
                   

                  BigNavyPedsGuy

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                    Oh, and in general, ****. I haven't applied to any scholarships... no financial aid... no job for the summer in anticipation of COT.

                    Any comments?

                    NOt trying to pile on, but this is one lesson that you will need whether you go USAF, USA, UAN, or civilian. Always have a backup plan!! I understand the whole not getting selected thing comes from left field, but there will be lots of items from left field throughout your career.

                    Good luck, I wish you the best
                     
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                    MaximusD

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                      Seriously, go either Army or Navy. I´ve never heard a single good reason why anyone would choose AF in the first place.

                      I appreciate the input.


                      My reasoning:
                      Shortest deployments (std. 4 mo) at a time when there is increasing likelihood of finding or having a significant other... early 30's... seems like an obvious and important consideration. There's a chance I'll be given a flight surgeon/gmo assignment, but not as much as the USN.

                      Navy = very high likelihood of GMO tour; interruption of training. Ships would probably make me clostrophobic for extended pds of time.

                      Army = LONG deployments. greater likelihood of being in harms way. BEST likelihood of straight-through training, though.

                      Correct me if I'm wrong... really, I may be oversimplifying.

                      I don't know, Air Force seemed very appealing... I'm going to wait to see what my recruiter's flight commander says next week when they contact me.

                      To those of you who have also pm'ed me, thank you very much.

                      I DO appreciate what everyone's been saying. It's a lot to think about.
                       

                      MaximusD

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                        NOt trying to pile on, but this is one lesson that you will need whether you go USAF, USA, UAN, or civilian. Always have a backup plan!! I understand the whole not getting selected thing comes from left field, but there will be lots of items from left field throughout your career.

                        Good luck, I wish you the best

                        You're right, and thanks. It was not like me not to have a backup plan. I thought it was pretty much a guaranteed thing. My mistake, obviously.

                        Thanks for the luck.
                         

                        notdeadyet

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                          You're an MSI? I'd be very careful about some of the logic you're using here to determine which branch.

                          Assuming no GMO tour, it will be a minimum of 7 years before you're actually working as a physician. Whether we'll still be in Iraq or not is debatable, but to assume that it will be at the current tempo for any branch is probably not realistic.

                          AF= They may have 4 month deployments now. Nothing says they'll still have them in 7 years. If you're worried about deploying at all, the military might not be a great idea. And have you seen where the Air Force has most of its bases? Ugh.

                          Navy= You're much, much more likely to be stuck in a clinic or hospital than on a ship. Unless things have radically changed, ship-postings are a lot harder to get. Worry about the GMO tour, but you're more likely to spend it with marines than on a ship.

                          Army= Again, who knows how long the deployments will be by the time you're there.

                          As to "harm's way", keep in mind that physicians from all branches are in Iraq and will continue to be. Navy doctors are filling Army billets as we speak. Don't know about Air Force, but if you don't want to deploy, take out loans or look into other scholarships.

                          Please don't take this personally, but I'm not getting a vibe that you're really gung ho about joining the military. It may just be me, but when folks are sort of blaise about which branch to join, it makes me wonder if joining at all is really a good call.
                           

                          Perrotfish

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                            My reasoning:
                            Shortest deployments (std. 4 mo) at a time when there is increasing likelihood of finding or having a significant other... early 30's... seems like an obvious and important consideration.
                            You understand AF physicians supplement the other branches, right? You could get stuck doing a 15 month tour with another persons service. Also, again, I would not make decisions based on current policies because policies change. By the time you get there Army might have 4 month deployments and AF might have 20 month deployment. If you are not willing to deploy, a lot, I probably would not join.

                            There's a chance I'll be given a flight surgeon/gmo assignment, but not as much as the USN.
                            Navy = very high likelihood of GMO tour; interruption of training. Ships would probably make me clostrophobic for extended pds of time.
                            My personal opinion that the number of AF GMOs will be similar to the Navy by the time you actually get around to applying for residencies. The AF is the only branch that is not even talking about implementing straight through training. Also you currently have nvery little chance of getting a ship unless you fight for one, so I would not worry there.

                            Army = LONG deployments. greater likelihood of being in harms way. BEST likelihood of straight-through training, though.
                            Again, long deployments might change, drastically, even if you deploy within your service.


                            I don't know, Air Force seemed very appealing... I'm going to wait to see what my recruiter's flight commander says next week when they contact me.
                            Most of all, why is AF appealing to you, other than that you think it will be less bad than the other two branches? Why do you want to join the military at all? You do not seem to have a lot of enthusiasim for the "military" parts of the military.
                             

                            MaximusD

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                              Not so. I just prefer to take safer bets. I will absolutely love serving my country and helping those who serve it. I have military throughout my family, I know what I'd be committing to.

                              Good job trying to justify their decision though. It ain't gonna work on me.

                              Let me make this clear. I am not WORRIED about deployments. I want to deploy. I want to serve my country and do something for our servicemen and women. However, I am guilty as charged on wanting to minimize my future obligation should I have a family to take care of. This is good, sound reasoning and this is not part of the logic that is subject to legitimate criticism. Sorry.

                              It would be ridiculous to say that by choosing the military I am choosing to not have a family. Saying that is easy, but the reality that they are not mutually exclusive. Do I have a family now? No. Seven years down the road I'll be 30. My life will be vastly different.

                              I know that the reality is that somewhere down the line during the next 7 yrs, I will probably find someone and ten years from now I'll probably be starting a family of some sort. That is just reality. To ignore that is childish and ill-advised.
                               

                              MaximusD

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                                My reasoning:
                                You understand AF physicians supplement the other branches, right? You could get stuck doing a 15 month tour with another persons service. Also, again, I would not make decisions based on current policies because policies change. By the time you get there Army might have 4 month deployments and AF might have 20 month deployment. If you are not willing to deploy, a lot, I probably would not join.

                                My personal opinion that the number of AF GMOs will be similar to the Navy by the time you actually get around to applying for residencies. The AF is the only branch that is not even talking about implementing straight through training. Also you currently have nvery little chance of getting a ship unless you fight for one, so I would not worry there.

                                Again, long deployments might change, drastically, even if you deploy within your service.


                                Most of all, why is AF appealing to you, other than that you think it will be less bad than the other two branches? Why do you want to join the military at all? You do not seem to have a lot of enthusiasim for the "military" parts of the military.

                                Some background would be that I just have an innate desire to do AF as well... I almost did USAF Academy. I like airplanes... like aviators... like air bases... like all that stuff. I just figure that's something you guys will scoff at so I haven't really discussed it. Not really all that important to a milmed discussion, IMO.
                                 

                                Jolie South

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                                  Some background would be that I just have an innate desire to do AF as well... I almost did USAF Academy. I like airplanes... like aviators... like air bases... like all that stuff. I just figure that's something you guys will scoff at so I haven't really discussed it. Not really all that important to a milmed discussion, IMO.

                                  these are the reasons that I chose AF despite the discussions of different branches. i don't think it's silly, but then again i'm just a newly commissioned HPSPer.
                                   

                                  trail doc

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                                    Some background would be that I just have an innate desire to do AF as well... I almost did USAF Academy. I like airplanes... like aviators... like air bases... like all that stuff. I just figure that's something you guys will scoff at so I haven't really discussed it. Not really all that important to a milmed discussion, IMO.


                                    As a staff physician in the Air Force, you're going to get as much exposure to aviation as you will to submarines. If you really want to be involved in that community, embrace the GMO phenomenon and be a flight surgeon. That being said, if you're Navy, you'll get three months of aviation training that the Army and Air Force don't do.
                                     

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                                      As a staff physician in the Air Force, you're going to get as much exposure to aviation as you will to submarines. If you really want to be involved in that community, embrace the GMO phenomenon and be a flight surgeon. That being said, if you're Navy, you'll get three months of aviation training that the Army and Air Force don't do.


                                      I always wondered what the Navy Flight Docs do (training wise) that the AF Flight docs don't? What do you do with the extra training time?
                                       

                                      TX_NFS

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                                        I always wondered what the Navy Flight Docs do (training wise) that the AF Flight docs don't? What do you do with the extra training time?

                                        I believe Phase II and Phase III Training in the following link details what else goes on:
                                        http://navmedmpte.med.navy.mil/nomi/nami/academics/flightsurgeon.cfm

                                        Phase II = Six weeks learning on the ground (Aviation Preflight Indoctrination)
                                        Phase III = Ten weeks of flying(!! :D ) in the T-34C Turbo Mentor and TH-57 Jet Ranger
                                         
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                                        trail doc

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                                          I always wondered what the Navy Flight Docs do (training wise) that the AF Flight docs don't? What do you do with the extra training time?


                                          That web site sums it up pretty well.
                                          API is done at NAS Pensacola and is the first four weeks of naval aviator training- you're in class along side all the flight students. You take classes in aerodynamics, engineering, weather and navigation. Also, you do all the survival training the flight students do- including the altitude chamber, helo hoist and helo dunker. Then to Whiting field for T-34 and TH-57 training. I did most of my T-34 flights on a weekend cross country flight to Key West. No cross country for TH-57s, but I never really did understand how a helicopter worked until I learned to fly one. Don't expect to become a pilot after this training, it takes about two years do to that, but it's a great diversion and a lot of fun.

                                          After that, we go back to NAS Pensacola where they teach us to be bureaucrats, and this part of the cirriculum is probably analgous to the whole of Army or Air Force FS training.
                                          The whole course takes about 6 months, plus stash time, so it can take up to the whole year after you're done with internship- and it counts for payback. It's pretty low key and and breath of fresh air after being done with internship...especially if you've got a good stash job in San Diego.

                                          True, it does put you behind and may cost you money in the long run, but considering the fact that 1 of those two million dollars would have gone to pay off my loans, I don't plan on spending too much time crying over it. There is the whole rest of my career to see 30 patients a day in civilian practice. I have plenty of money to support my family and my interests, and if you consider income to aggrivation ratio, I'm one of the highest paid physicians in the nation. Also, my time as a flight surgeon was a tremendous asset when applying for civilian residency this past season. I doubt I would have matched had I applied straight out of med school.
                                           

                                          spicedmanna

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                                            I'm sorry you got placed on the alternate list, Max. Sometimes life just doesn't make the sense that we want it to make, but I try to see everything that happens in mine as the right thing happening at the right time, as challenging as it seems from time to time. This is definitely one of those times. I also got placed on the alternate list for the AFHPSP, Max. I just found out today. Like you, I really banked on getting that scholarship... It's completely my fault for placing all my eggs in one basket, but I sure went though a whole heck of a lot to get that application through and thought that the probability was going to be pretty good that I was going to get the scholarship. It wasn't the easiest of processes and it probably cost me a letter grade in my last section. Oh well. You live and learn... There's still chance that I'll get pulled from the list, so I guess I'll wait and see for a bit longer before I try to change plans and salvage my summer. It really sucks, though, and even though I've had lots of practice dealing with possible rejection, I had my heart set on the AF and I could have planned my summer better. :(
                                             

                                            Perrotfish

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                                              Could someone sticky this thread, BTW? I didn´t apply for financial aid either, and now you guys have got me crazy nervous.

                                              Also I hope the AF has the sense to take more physicians this year. It seems like common sense: they didn´t get enough for the last few years, so now they would want more than their quota to fill the empty slots.
                                               

                                              spicedmanna

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                                                Has something like this happened before, where a branch suddenly and unexpectedly cuts the number of HPSP slots with the result of placing some people in alternate spots? Anyone know if I have a chance in hell of getting pulled off the alternate list before July 1 (the start of the new cycle), or should I start making new plans?
                                                 

                                                notdeadyet

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                                                  I also got placed on the alternate list for the AFHPSP, Max. I just found out today. Like you, I really banked on getting that scholarship...
                                                  Sorry to hear that, spicedmanna. I remember reading a lot of your posts from when I was applying last cycle and now that you've been applying in this one. Sorry to hear that the scholarship did not come through for you.

                                                  I know Plan B is going to be a mad scramble, but I hope it produces something that makes you happy.
                                                   

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                                                    I am really amazed that all the scholarships for AF have been given out already. The recruiter told me that last year the AF had 3 year scholarships left until mid summer. But don't they fill 100% of their slots every year anyway?
                                                     

                                                    Perrotfish

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                                                      Also, question for the attendings (and that recruiter, wherever he went to), would it hurt you chances of getting pulled of an alternate list to start submitting an application to another branch? If Navy waitlists me I would be crazy depressed, but I might be willing to submit a packet to Army. I would rather wait than hurt my chances of getting pulled off the alternate list at Navy, though.

                                                      Still waiting for their final decision on my packet. It´s supposed to be coming soon. Hopefully this is not an issue for me.
                                                       

                                                      NavyFP

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                                                        Also, question for the attendings (and that recruiter, wherever he went to), would it hurt you chances of getting pulled of an alternate list to start submitting an application to another branch? If Navy waitlists me I would be crazy depressed, but I might be willing to submit a packet to Army. I would rather wait than hurt my chances of getting pulled off the alternate list at Navy, though.

                                                        Still waiting for their final decision on my packet. It´s supposed to be coming soon. Hopefully this is not an issue for me.

                                                        Navy has not filled yet. There is not likely to be a wait list.
                                                         

                                                        MaximusD

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                                                          Has something like this happened before, where a branch suddenly and unexpectedly cuts the number of HPSP slots with the result of placing some people in alternate spots? Anyone know if I have a chance in hell of getting pulled off the alternate list before July 1 (the start of the new cycle), or should I start making new plans?

                                                          I'd request full loans from your lending sources but put off signing the promissory notes until after you know for sure. That is what I intend to do... You can always decrease the loan amt, but it will make things easier if you put your ducks in a row, IMO.

                                                          I don't understand what's happened here. Why would they cut 110 spots to offer a CSAB when they were going to fill almost all of those 110 spots anyway. They threw out ~100 physicians coming down the pipeline. Short-sighted, IMO.
                                                           
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                                                          spicedmanna

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                                                            Thanks, guys. Yeah, this situation blows. I've seen plenty of non-sensical personnel decisions made in the past, through my experience in civillian project managment, but this decision to cut slots to pay the $20K with the knowledge that you are shorthanded to start with, is pretty high up there in terms of being illogical. All I can say, is "What?" I can't wrap my head around it. I wish I had some idea this was going to happen before I started the process. I mean, it's looking like I essentially wasted my very precious time for this. :rolleyes:

                                                            Whatever. I hope these guys at the top come to their senses and overturn this ludicrous policy, for the good of their own organization.

                                                            As for what I am going to do now? I haven't a clue. I have too many finals this week to think too hard about it. I'll ponder it after I finish with all those. I don't really want to seek another branch, but it is something I might consider if it's not likely for me to get pulled off the alternate list. Gotta take care of myself here.
                                                             

                                                            spicedmanna

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                                                              Also, what drove them to cut the three-year scholarships, too? I mean, it's a way better deal for the AF in the long run. Here you have students who are already doing fine in medical school, won't cost you as much, and actually want to serve in the AF. Yeah, let's put these guys on the alternate list. Go figure. :confused: :rolleyes:
                                                               

                                                              Perrotfish

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                                                                Thanks, guys. Yeah, this situation blows. I've seen plenty of non-sensical personnel decisions made in the past, through my experience in civillian project managment, but this decision to cut slots to pay the $20K with the knowledge that you are shorthanded to start with, is pretty high up there in terms of being illogical. All I can say, is "What?" I can't wrap my head around it. I wish I had some idea this was going to happen before I started the process. I mean, it's looking like I essentially wasted my very precious time for this.

                                                                Are you guys going to join another branch if AF doesn´t take you?
                                                                 

                                                                spicedmanna

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                                                                  Are you guys going to join another branch if AF doesn´t take you?

                                                                  I'm considering it. I haven't really landed on which other branch, though. I really never looked any other direction. However, if it's unlikely for me to get off the alternate list, then I guess that's going to be one option for me. I have to look more closely at the pros and cons of the remaining branches.
                                                                   

                                                                  Jolie South

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                                                                    I'm considering it. I haven't really landed on which other branch, though. I really never looked any other direction. However, if it's unlikely for me to get off the alternate list, then I guess that's going to be one option for me. I have to look more closely at the pros and cons of the remaining branches.

                                                                    i wonder if you would have to do MEPS again or if they could just transfer your paperwork over to another branch.
                                                                     

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                                                                    1. Attending Physician
                                                                      i wonder if you would have to do MEPS again or if they could just transfer your paperwork over to another branch.

                                                                      Good lord, I sure hope, if I decide to apply to another branch, that they don't make me do the whole process all over again. It took a great chunk of my time and energy... Certainly if I had to do it all over again, I'd think long and hard about it. I hope it's as simple as a lateral transfer of paperwork. :luck:

                                                                      Any attendings or recruiters know?
                                                                       

                                                                      Jolie South

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                                                                        Good lord, I sure hope, if I decide to apply to another branch, that they don't make me do the whole process all over again. It took a great chunk of my time and energy... Certainly if I had to do it all over again, I'd think long and hard about it. I hope it's as simple as a lateral transfer of paperwork. :luck:

                                                                        Any attendings or recruiters know?

                                                                        i understand completely. if someone told me i had to go back there, i don't know if i'd continue or not. :)
                                                                         

                                                                        RugbyJC

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                                                                          i wonder if you would have to do MEPS again or if they could just transfer your paperwork over to another branch.

                                                                          This is going back over 4 years ago, but when I pulled my application from the Army and went Navy I did NOT need to go back to MEPS. I did need to submit some missing medical info from my PCP, but that was it.

                                                                          I probably would have said screw it if I had to go back to MEPS, 'cause that was just annoying and degrading. My Army recruiter was being a **** and tried to with hold my physical from the Navy, but that was the only issue that I remember.
                                                                           

                                                                          BomberDoc

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                                                                            Certainly if I had to do it all over again, I'd think long and hard about it.

                                                                            If a few weeks of paperwork pain or another trip to MEPS are making you reconsider, what will 4-8 years of intense burning sodomy by the rutting bulls of military medicine make you think of?

                                                                            Seriously, this is a message from above. Count your blessings and stay away from milmed.
                                                                             

                                                                            Perrotfish

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                                                                              i wonder if you would have to do MEPS again or if they could just transfer your paperwork over to another branch.

                                                                              I asked my recruiter this, because I was considering going for Maine OCS if medical school decided not to accept me. Apparently MEPS transfers, but most of the paperwork needs to be redone. I have no idea what they would have to do about the LORs.
                                                                               

                                                                              sethco

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                                                                                If a few weeks of paperwork pain or another trip to MEPS are making you reconsider, what will 4-8 years of intense burning sodomy by the rutting bulls of military medicine make you think of?

                                                                                Seriously, this is a message from above. Count your blessings and stay away from milmed.


                                                                                You beat me to it.

                                                                                I'm floored by some pre-meds/med studs talking about "if I had to do MEPS over again, I would seriously reconsider joining the military"

                                                                                Are you F***ing serious!?!?!?

                                                                                Wake up and smell the coffee. Even the most supportive people of mil-med on this site recognize all of the red tape/paperwork/beaurcracy that happens nearly on a daily basis
                                                                                 

                                                                                73BARMYPgsp

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                                                                                  You beat me to it.

                                                                                  I'm floored by some pre-meds/med studs talking about "if I had to do MEPS over again, I would seriously reconsider joining the military"

                                                                                  Are you F***ing serious!?!?!?

                                                                                  Wake up and smell the coffee. Even the most supportive people of mil-med on this site recognize all of the red tape/paperwork/beaurcracy that happens nearly on a daily basis

                                                                                  I have to agree on that one. A new recruit should vew MEPS as their first glance at "how the military does things." It's been said a million times already. You do HPSP for the pride in service, nothing else.
                                                                                   

                                                                                  350011

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                                                                                    what will 4-8 years of intense burning sodomy by the rutting bulls of military medicine make you think of?

                                                                                    This is the greatest F-ing line I've seen on this forum, period. Thank you.

                                                                                    Would there be a court-martial under UCMJ for "Sodomy, by force and without consent'. I suppose the ultimate thing would be to screw you again by having you discharged as a catcher under don't ask don't tell.

                                                                                    But seriously, i've had ODS described as knife and fork school with screaming, PT, and bad food. Am I in for a surprise beyond the sodomy? What do people expect, they ask you to bring ten copies of orders with you, that was the first sign for me. That and the fact that despite doing a full blood work up and drug test the geniuses forgot to type my blood and I had to go back.
                                                                                     

                                                                                    MaximusD

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                                                                                    1. Attending Physician
                                                                                      You beat me to it.

                                                                                      I'm floored by some pre-meds/med studs talking about "if I had to do MEPS over again, I would seriously reconsider joining the military"

                                                                                      Are you F***ing serious!?!?!?

                                                                                      Wake up and smell the coffee. Even the most supportive people of mil-med on this site recognize all of the red tape/paperwork/beaurcracy that happens nearly on a daily basis

                                                                                      MEPS is dehumanizing on a very different level than having full practice rights as a physician with some annoying paperwork and guidelines/metrics. They make you do a g/d duckwalk and wait around for HOURS with only boxers on... lol.

                                                                                      Traveling to the site, taking a day to drive from Philly to Harrisburg and skipping a full day of class, and having to jump through a bunch of LOR/essay/paperwork hoops was an inconvenience especially when our recruiters assured us this would be a sure thing, when in fact it wasn't. I feel a little irritated as well, Spiced. This just doesn't make sense (as I've said before) and I can't believe the AF would see any benefit from CUTTING 110 spots.
                                                                                       

                                                                                      spicedmanna

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                                                                                      1. Attending Physician
                                                                                        You beat me to it.

                                                                                        I'm floored by some pre-meds/med studs talking about "if I had to do MEPS over again, I would seriously reconsider joining the military"

                                                                                        Are you F***ing serious!?!?!?

                                                                                        Wake up and smell the coffee. Even the most supportive people of mil-med on this site recognize all of the red tape/paperwork/beaurcracy that happens nearly on a daily basis

                                                                                        You guys can stop jumping all over me any time... Your posturing doesn't impress me and I'm no stranger to hard work. I am a non-trad med student and I'm no spring chicken.

                                                                                        Sure, MEPS wasn't fun and a bit demeaning, but it was basically painless. In my post, I was addressing the difficulty that the entire application process was for me. Basically, my application process was a bit out of wack, more than usual. It was the first time that my recruiter had done HPSP, new rules kept popping up as we went, and I had many more years of history to report than most people, so it took a bit of time and energy. So, yeah, it makes me pause a bit about doing all that crap over again. It impacted my med school work for sure; dropped me a letter grade, probably. Anyway, I'll do it again if that's what wants to happen, but to say that it was a piece of cake would be a bit of lie. To be clear, it was the whole shebang, not MEPS specifically that I was referring to.

                                                                                        Okay, I don't want to say too much, except you guys need to take a chill pill and stop having such a trigger finger about these types of things. Not all of us are what you think... You know the joke about making assumptions.
                                                                                         

                                                                                        Jolie South

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                                                                                          MEPS is dehumanizing on a very different level than having full practice rights as a physician with some annoying paperwork and guidelines/metrics. They make you do a g/d duckwalk and wait around for HOURS with only boxers on... lol.

                                                                                          tend to agree, not to mention the observed urine sample.

                                                                                          and while my title does say pre-med, i've actually been out of school and in the "real world" working for quite some time now. i think i know myself better than someone that took a half-joking comment the wrong way on the internet.

                                                                                          last time i checked, we don't get paid for going to MEPS. missing work at a moment's notice doesn't make my boss too happy either. while my current job isn't going to turn into a career, people actually depend on me to do my work. if i was in the same situation as some of the above posters and had to reapply to another branch, i wouldn't be too pleased taking more days off last minute, especially after my interview season and getting all my AF stuff done the first time around.
                                                                                           
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