Doesn't make any sense...

[Jolie South]

Well......got the call today......Air Force beat out Army........so......I'll be joining you boys!

yay! (i'm not a boy)

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MaximusD]

Hey, Max, my recruiter says that COT is something that we schedule through AFIT, but he doubts that there is going to be space available... Either way, when AFIT becomes our POC, I guess we contact them about it.

Mine seemed to think there would be because they'd make space for the 3-yrs first. Suspense.. I'd rather get paid to sit on my ass and sip pina coladas... damn it

 

[spicedmanna]

Well......got the call today......Air Force beat out Army........so......I'll be joining you boys!

Congratulations, LauraDO.

Mine seemed to think there would be because they'd make space for the 3-yrs first. Suspense.. I'd rather get paid to sit on my ass and sip pina coladas... damn it

Aw, man, I had settled myself into having a free summer. We'll see in a week or two, I guess.

 

[LauraDO]

Jolie, sorry hun, I knew you were a girl, I guess I was just thinking about those freshly taken off the waitlist.

I wish you all would wait until next summer to go to COT, I don't want to be all by myself.

It is werid how excited I am right now considering I almost turned the scholarship down completely...then I almost went with the Army....either I am really flexible or I really believe in fate (good or bad)

 

[MaximusD]

Much sadness. I have to turn down 20k USD. Not cool. 20k isn't worth 365 days though.

 

[LauraDO]

Much sadness. I have to turn down 20k USD. Not cool. 20k isn't worth 365 days though.

Why? I'm confused?

Dude, Max, that is not fair, you can't just post something like that with no explaination and then sign off.....get yourself back on here and explain, you are killing us (or me specifically)

 

[MaximusD]

Why? I'm confused?

Dude, Max, that is not fair, you can't just post something like that with no explaination and then sign off.....get yourself back on here and explain, you are killing us (or me specifically)

The 20k scholarship has a 4-yr service obligation. I am doing a 3 yr scholarship with a 3-yr active service obligation. taking the bonus would effectively increase my active duty requirement by one year.

 

[spicedmanna]

The 20k scholarship has a 4-yr service obligation. I am doing a 3 yr scholarship with a 3-yr active service obligation. taking the bonus would effectively increase my active duty requirement by one year.

Yeah, I knew that taking the bonus effectively adds one more year to my AD obligation. I considered it carefully and decided that it was okay with me.

 

[LauraDO]

So I signed my paperwork today and am absolutly exhausted from this whole thing.....honestly this has been such a stressful decision.....I had Army people calling me all morning with AF horror stories, I had AF people calling me with Army horror stories, in the long run I think it is a crapshoot and I said I'd do whichever one comes first.....so there, done...Thank God!

 

[Coastie]

You're very wise.

Is it too late for private scholarships/financial aid? What is the total first year package looking like these days at PCOM, and what is the total debt you can assume to have? Add up all four years of financial estimates from the school for this year, and add 20%.

Not so. I just prefer to take safer bets. I will absolutely love serving my country and helping those who serve it. I have military throughout my family, I know what I'd be committing to.

Good job trying to justify their decision though. It ain't gonna work on me.

Let me make this clear. I am not WORRIED about deployments. I want to deploy. I want to serve my country and do something for our servicemen and women. However, I am guilty as charged on wanting to minimize my future obligation should I have a family to take care of. This is good, sound reasoning and this is not part of the logic that is subject to legitimate criticism. Sorry.

It would be ridiculous to say that by choosing the military I am choosing to not have a family. Saying that is easy, but the reality that they are not mutually exclusive. Do I have a family now? No. Seven years down the road I'll be 30. My life will be vastly different.

I know that the reality is that somewhere down the line during the next 7 yrs, I will probably find someone and ten years from now I'll probably be starting a family of some sort. That is just reality. To ignore that is childish and ill-advised.

 

[MaximusD]

You're very wise.

Is it too late for private scholarships/financial aid? What is the total first year package looking like these days at PCOM, and what is the total debt you can assume to have? Add up all four years of financial estimates from the school for this year, and add 20%.

This year, I took out 59k in debt... because I have to pay for my medical insurance (2600/yr), rent (800/mo... cant do roommates anymore), utilities (~120-200/mo), food/toiletries/paper products/etc (~80-90/wk)... the costs rack up pretty fast. Seemed like I'd be rolling in the money with that much overage, but I've consitently run out just in time for the next disbursement. Do I go out sometimes, yes... but not often.

So 60*4 = 240 * 120% = $ 288,000. I think that's an extremely low estimate over the life of a student loan.

 

[MaximusD]

Yeah, I knew that taking the bonus effectively adds one more year to my AD obligation. I considered it carefully and decided that it was okay with me.

I feel like I'd be fine with it now but I know if milmed turns out to be a HUGE dissapointment in some way, I'll be thankful later. I haven't really let this forum dissuade me in the least... but it's comforting to have the eject handle as an option as soon as possible.

Thing is, the chances of me doing a residency that is longer than my ASO isn't negligible so I'm gonna kick myself later if I end up having to serve more years and turned down a quick 20k.

I bet the less-than-satisfied docs that often post here are just looking at us and laughing... but I know I always make the best of everything (and i've had some pretty situations in my life) and I think it's a great opportunity to do some good. Is that your take as well LDO...Spiced? I guess I'm wondering how everyone else got past the critiques of milmed in their own way.

 

[MaximusD]

Interesting. I hope you have a smooth transition, Jolie, despite the time crunch.

I just emailed my recruiter asking about COT. I would prefer to delay it until later, actually, but if I absolutely have to do it this summer, then I guess I have my last summer cut out for me. In any case, it would be good to know whether I am going to be required to go this summer, or not, so I can plan the rest of it.

Maybe I'll see you there?

I know it's no summer camp but it'll be nice knowing someone @ COT. Maybe we should make this real and all find each other on F-book? Anonymity be damned. PM away.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

This year, I took out 59k in debt... because I have to pay for my medical insurance (2600/yr), rent (800/mo... cant do roommates anymore), utilities (~120-200/mo), food/toiletries/paper products/etc (~80-90/wk)... the costs rack up pretty fast. Seemed like I'd be rolling in the money with that much overage, but I've consitently run out just in time for the next disbursement. Do I go out sometimes, yes... but not often.

So 60*4 = 240 * 120% = $ 288,000. I think that's an extremely low estimate over the life of a student loan.

I know that's a crap load of money, but there is DEFINITELY one part that you need to factor in: the pay discrepancy later. I'm not trying to dissuade you, just give the facts. You say that there's a good chance you'll do a longer residency. I'm going to take that to mean that you mean some sort of surgery or EM or Rads.

You start out $300K ahead (from having no loans).

When you finish residency you make 150-175K/year - that's around the max of any military specialty. Many surgical subspecialties start out at or around 300K/year (some even more). So you make ~150K less per year.

$150Kx3=$450 less that you would make during your payback than you would as a civilian. $450K-$300K (your loan amount)=$150K ahead if you went the civilian route.

Again, there are lots of reasons besides money, but let's not kid ourselves. If you have 3 posts about money in this thread alone, then it's a factor.

I was speaking to some staff about this and they told me that the pay discrepancy is so great, that they benefit financially from getting out after 14yrs instead of waiting that extra 6yrs for lifetime benefits. The pay difference is so great that it makes up for lack of military pension.

It's worth noting that if you go into primary care (i.e. peds, FP, general IM) then there is a much smaller pay discrepancy and you'd basically come out the same either way.

 

[LauraDO]

I bet the less-than-satisfied docs that often post here are just looking at us and laughing... but I know I always make the best of everything (and i've had some pretty situations in my life) and I think it's a great opportunity to do some good. Is that your take as well LDO...Spiced? I guess I'm wondering how everyone else got past the critiques of milmed in their own way.

Yep, that is pretty much my thought on it, and as you know I have been all over the place with this decision. But everytime I let it go and told myself, 'no the negatives FAR outweight so positives, I won't do this" a big part of me felt disappointed (both in myself and in the decision). I decided I wanted to be a Doctor, not to save the world, find a cure for cancer, etc. But only with the goal of trying to help improve the existance of at least one person (although more would be nice).

I also feel like I tend to make the best out of every situation I am in and I live by the philosophy that everything happens for a reason, good or bad. I feel like I am going in to this decision, eyes wide open, thanks to this board, things might suck, but at least I chose that suckiness with knowledge in hand and all I can do is try to make the best out it and be the best Doctor possible under the circumstances.

In the end, I am more proud to be milmed than to be a doctor alone. Perhaps I can't fix the system but at least I can help one or two patients. I refuse to let those that selflessly serve our country be stuck with crappy care just because I don't want to be uncomfortable

Anyway that was a bit speechy.....on another not, Spice/Max I wish you would wait and go to COT next year---it will be so much more fun if I am there too

 

[MaximusD]

Helpful post. Thank you.

I only mentioned the money originally in reference to the 2-yr making zero sense. And then Coastie asked me about the cost at PCOM so I had responded to his thread. For me, the money IS a factor, but not the primary one.

I know that I HATE surgery, and I was just stating that a non-invasive specialty such as rads or oncology (im sub, i kno) isn't completely out of the question, although I do see myself in primary care and have since I entered med school. Perhaps a IM fellowship after my ASO is completed is a possibility, not sure. Not huge on the prospect of doing clinical research in a fellowship environment.

Question: Does the AF defer for dual-residencies like med-peds? My guess would be no. I do think that the additional med-peds training possibly leads to better diagnostic skills than FP, IM, and Peds... for that I would be willing to give up an extra year but I have my doubts as to whether the military would. In fact, I'm sure they'd rather use me to fill an IM or FP spot in a military residency. Can someone also explain cashing in the GI bill during residency?

I know that's a crap load of money, but there is DEFINITELY one part that you need to factor in: the pay discrepancy later. I'm not trying to dissuade you, just give the facts. You say that there's a good chance you'll do a longer residency. I'm going to take that to mean that you mean some sort of surgery or EM or Rads.

You start out $300K ahead (from having no loans).

When you finish residency you make 150-175K/year - that's around the max of any military specialty. Many surgical subspecialties start out at or around 300K/year (some even more). So you make ~150K less per year.

$150Kx3=$450 less that you would make during your payback than you would as a civilian. $450K-$300K (your loan amount)=$150K ahead if you went the civilian route.

Again, there are lots of reasons besides money, but let's not kid ourselves. If you have 3 posts about money in this thread alone, then it's a factor.

I was speaking to some staff about this and they told me that the pay discrepancy is so great, that they benefit financially from getting out after 14yrs instead of waiting that extra 6yrs for lifetime benefits. The pay difference is so great that it makes up for lack of military pension.

It's worth noting that if you go into primary care (i.e. peds, FP, general IM) then there is a much smaller pay discrepancy and you'd basically come out the same either way.

 

[MaximusD]

Yep, that is pretty much my thought on it, and as you know I have been all over the place with this decision. But everytime I let it go and told myself, 'no the negatives FAR outweight so positives, I won't do this" a big part of me felt disappointed (both in myself and in the decision). I decided I wanted to be a Doctor, not to save the world, find a cure for cancer, etc. But only with the goal of trying to help improve the existance of at least one person (although more would be nice).

I also feel like I tend to make the best out of every situation I am in and I live by the philosophy that everything happens for a reason, good or bad. I feel like I am going in to this decision, eyes wide open, thanks to this board, things might suck, but at least I chose that suckiness with knowledge in hand and all I can do is try to make the best out it and be the best Doctor possible under the circumstances.

In the end, I am more proud to be milmed than to be a doctor alone. Perhaps I can't fix the system but at least I can help one or two patients. I refuse to let those that selflessly serve our country be stuck with crappy care just because I don't want to be uncomfortable

Anyway that was a bit speechy.....on another not, Spice/Max I wish you would wait and go to COT next year---it will be so much more fun if I am there too

1) I'm fairly sure I'm going to be ordered there this year. That is because...

2) This is my last full summer until a small period after graduation prior to internship/PGY-1.

If I don't do COT now, I won't do it until graduation and may end up being late for whatever residency orientation I have to attend. Not cool.

 

[Jolie South]

I bet the less-than-satisfied docs that often post here are just looking at us and laughing... but I know I always make the best of everything (and i've had some pretty situations in my life) and I think it's a great opportunity to do some good. Is that your take as well LDO...Spiced? I guess I'm wondering how everyone else got past the critiques of milmed in their own way.

It wasn't an easy decision for me either, and I had initially decided against the scholarship because I wasn't sure I was willing to ask my husband to make that much of a sacrifice. Then, some crazy events happened in our personal lives and he encouraged me to take it. I'm not expecting my payback to be easy, but it's still an experience that I'd like to have. I actually am a big believer in "service", so that's my main motivation.

I'm also thinking about going into IM and then doing ID, so I don't think I stand to lose as much financially from this decision.

PM me when it gets closer to COT. I'm actually driving there, so I'll have a car for the weekends we're free.

 

[LauraDO]

It wasn't an easy decision for me either, and I had initially decided against the scholarship because I wasn't sure I was willing to ask my husband to make that much of a sacrifice. Then, some crazy events happened in our personal lives and he encouraged me to take it. I'm not expecting my payback to be easy, but it's still an experience that I'd like to have. I actually am a big believer in "service", so that's my main motivation.

I'm also thinking about going into IM and then doing ID, so I don't think I stand to lose as much financially from this decision.

PM me when it gets closer to COT. I'm actually driving there, so I'll have a car for the weekends we're free.

Dang it! I wish I was going this year now!

As far as speciality, I am open, but very interested in Ortho right now, so I probably will lose financially

 

[BomberDoc]

I bet the less-than-satisfied docs that often post here are just looking at us and laughing...

You are 100% correct. I thought I was soooooo smart back when I sought out the HPSP, just like you think you are now.

 

[BomberDoc]

Question: Does the AF defer for dual-residencies like med-peds? Can someone also explain cashing in the GI bill during residency?

1) To my knowledge, the answer is no. They want you trained and out doing your utilization tour ASAP. An extra year to get dual boarded doesn't do the military any good in their short-sighted eyes.

2) You can't use the GI bill if you do a military residency. It only pays off if you GTFO and do a civilian residency. Deferment won't work either unless you have 36 months of active duty before getting deferred for civ residency. This is possible if you do GMO/FS for 3 years, then make the enormous mistake to still apply for military GME.

 

[LauraDO]

You are 100% correct. I thought I was soooooo smart back when I sought out the HPSP, just like you think you are now.

no, I don't think I am smart at all, quite the opposite, which is why I tried to talk myself out of it so many times. I think I am slightly crazy for doing it (and being excited about doing it) after all I know, but like I said, there is something that kept me wanting to do it, against all odds. I blame it on military upbreeding, some sort of brain washing

 

[spicedmanna]

no, I don't think I am smart at all, quite the opposite, which is why I tried to talk myself out of it so many times. I think I am slightly crazy for doing it (and being excited about doing it) after all I know, but like I said, there is something that kept me wanting to do it, against all odds. I blame it on military upbreeding, some sort of brain washing

Hahaha.... I kind of resonate with you on this, Laura. I think I'm a bit crazy for choosing this, too. However, it's what feels right to me and I'm completely aligned on the choice to do the HPSP. I usually make a practice of researching, listening to different opinions, and then thinking through my decisions, but after all that, I will factor in my gut feeling. If my gut is strongly pulling me toward a particular choice, I don't care very much what others think of it any more. I have never regretted a choice made this way.

Anyway, milmed has been brewing in the back of mind for more than a few years. I've always thought I'd enjoy the military lifestyle and that it would fit me well. One of my best friends is a milmed physician and I've been following his progress for a while. I've learned a lot about it from his eyes over the years, the good, the bad, and the ugly. I even had the chance to directly observe and participate not long ago. I can tell you that I was impressed by what I've witnessed thus far and when I tried it on, I felt like I could live with it. Yes, it definitely has problems (what avenue of health care doesn't?), but overall, I felt that the opportunity to serve the troops and their families was going to be worth braving those issues. Even though I might have my work cut out for me, I think I would be able to be happy knowing that I am doing the work that I will be doing.

Did I have doubts? Yes, lots of them. I moved back and forth with my choice, weighing the benefits (few) against the negatives. I read the rather opinionated posts here on SDN. I talked with everyone about it and almost everyone had some sort of opinion. I listened deeply. I felt that logically and financially, doing the HPSP wasn't going to be most optimal choice, just like almost everyone says. At the end, however, I realized that my heart was calling me to serve in this way, so I went with it. Did I make the right choice? Only time will tell. The jury is still out. I can tell you one thing. My friend in milmed just came back from Iraq after 15 months and while it is clear that the deployment was hell (of course war sucks universally), it seemed that he had a new appreciation for milmed and still glad to be in his position as a milmed physician. There are people who love their job as a military physician. There are those, who knowing the issues they have to face each day, go forward anyway, proudly serving the troops and their families. I hope I end up as one of those and not the vocal many who end up bitter and unhappy that they made the choices that they did.

Now that I am in, I am going to leave myself open and simply experience the ride. I think I want to go into primary care, so the financial disparity between civilian and military life is going to be much less than if I wanted to pursue a higher paying specialty.

 

[LauraDO]

Spice was your friend army or AF (I would guess army based on deployment time) What made you choose AF, just out of curiosity

 

[spicedmanna]

Spice was your friend army or AF (I would guess army based on deployment time) What made you choose AF, just out of curiosity

Yeah, good guess. He is an Army physician.

As to your question, well, it was a pretty difficult decision. I had people on both sides trying to pull me into their side. However, I simply weighed the options and the lifestyles and the USAF won out. While the Army does have more residency options, the lifestyle is better for USAF physicians, which pretty much everyone acknowledges. Also, they were much faster on the draw. The rest was essentially momentum.

 

[sethco]

You are 100% correct. I thought I was soooooo smart back when I sought out the HPSP, just like you think you are now.

I am actually not laughing at all. I am shaking my head in complete disbelief that so many intelligent individuals are making the same mistakes we did dispite the majority's advice. But hey, I understand. If I went back in time and talked to myself before I signed the HPSP contract, I would probably would have a difficult time convincing myself not to sign.

2) You can't use the GI bill if you do a military residency. It only pays off if you GTFO and do a civilian residency. Deferment won't work either unless you have 36 months of active duty before getting deferred for civ residency. This is possible if you do GMO/FS for 3 years, then make the enormous mistake to still apply for military GME.

I don't agree with this at all. EVERYBODY THAT IS ELIGIBLE to fund the GI Bill should do so. Even if you do a military residency/fellowship. There are so many other uses for this. In addition, in the future you may be able to pass it on to your dependents and it is only going to be more valuable in the future. If you used your benefits today, you would be looking at a $1800 investment with over a $45,000 return spread out over 3 years. This does not take into account new legislation that they are currently fighting over on the hill.

 

[sethco]

the lifestyle is better for USAF physicians, which pretty much everyone acknowledges.

I am curious.

From a pre-med/med stud point of view, how do you think the USAF lifestyle in better than Army or Navy?

Please do not use length of deployment as an example because that will most likely change by the time you start active duty.

 

[spicedmanna]

I am curious.

From a pre-med/med stud point of view, how do you think the USAF lifestyle in better than Army or Navy?

Please do not use length of deployment as an example because that will most likely change by the time you start active duty.

Well, I don't know for sure, as a medical student. I asked people in both branches and that was what the majority told me. Even people on the Army side said that, too. Obviously, I cannot have direct experience with this yet, so all I could do is ask, listen, and read. I can't know if it's true, but that is the perception, anyway. In fact, I was talking with an Army person not long ago and she told me that AF docs are working in more comfortable conditions, in general, and the USAF seems to be more family friendly. Again, there's no way for me to corroborate this. It's just the perception.

I read somewhere that while the USAF sent about a quarter of it's recent medical school graduates to FS/GMO billets, the Navy tends to do that with significantly greater frequency, so that was a concern of mine when considering the Navy. I don't know if this is true, but that is what I have read. After learning that, I pretty much crossed Navy off my list.

For me, it was close between the Army and the AF. I just got the perception from talking with my Army buddies that the Army was a lot more hard core. They thought I'd like this more, but I didn't.

 

[MaximusD]

I am curious.

From a pre-med/med stud point of view, how do you think the USAF lifestyle in better than Army or Navy?

Please do not use length of deployment as an example because that will most likely change by the time you start active duty.

I like air force bases bc they have cool planes...? Damn the length of deployment was my standard-issue argument on this one. In general, even if the ACTUAL number changes, won't the air force make every effort to keep the deployment lengths at a minimum? It's a huge selling point.

 

[LauraDO]

I asked people in both branches and that was what the majority told me. Even people on the Army side said that, too.

ditto... I come from a military family (both dad and grandfather are West Point grads) I talked with people in all three branches and everyone, EVERYONE, told me to go AF (other than this board), everyone I talked to in the military had great things say about the AF

 

[MaximusD]

I asked people in both branches and that was what the majority told me. Even people on the Army side said that, too. Obviously, I cannot have direct experience with this yet, so all I could do is ask, listen, and read. I can't know if it's true, but that is the perception, anyway.

+1... had a rather long conversation with an Army recruiter weighing my options and the pros and cons of both services. I do wish that the AF had a much larger GME, but I also think that you're more likely to get deferred in AF as opposed to other branches. For me, I like to keep my options open and I felt that AF was the best avenue for that while still being in milmed.

An army reserve officer friend of mine told me that, "Air Force is a perfectly viable alternative to military service." It's in jest and I don't believe it in the least... but I thought that was humorous.

I absolutely take everything with a grain of salt. My dad was near the Army base in Carlisle, PA and he was in a store and happened across a Colonel in Army medicine... the officer proceeded to feed my dad a ton of reasons why I should do Army medicine... the most hilarious quotes were similar to the following:

1. "We have learned not to push our physicians around by forcing them to do anything that they don't want to do. The carrot works better than the stick."

and my fav:

2. "Is your son worried about deployment? If he was deployed anywhere his only deployment would be to someplace like Hawaii for a few months at most..."

 

[BomberDoc]

I don't agree with this at all. EVERYBODY THAT IS ELIGIBLE to fund the GI Bill should do so. Even if you do a military residency/fellowship. There are so many other uses for this. In addition, in the future you may be able to pass it on to your dependents and it is only going to be more valuable in the future. If you used your benefits today, you would be looking at a $1800 investment with over a $45,000 return spread out over 3 years. This does not take into account new legislation that they are currently fighting over on the hill.

Good point. Even if you don't know now what you might use it for, the GI Bill is a good deal. And you have 10 years from the time of separation... this could be especially valuable if you can pass it on. I was focused solely on using it during residency when I wrote my response.

 

[spicedmanna]

I do wish that the AF had a much larger GME, but I also think that you're more likely to get deferred in AF as opposed to other branches.

Yeah, I also wish the USAF had more GME options, but I also heard that they tend to hand out more deferments.... We'll see.

 

[spicedmanna]

I am actually not laughing at all. I am shaking my head in complete disbelief that so many intelligent individuals are making the same mistakes we did dispite the majority's advice. But hey, I understand. If I went back in time and talked to myself before I signed the HPSP contract, I would probably would have a difficult time convincing myself not to sign.

Well, only time will tell. You and everyone else here could very well be right and I'll end up unhappy. However, I could be the minority (as it would seem from people on here) that is actually good with their choice. Either way, it's the choice I made, so... (I try to make a habit of not regretting the choices I made.)

Anyway, I appreciate all the advice, warnings, etc., that everyone shared here. Thanks for taking the time to give us your perspective. Usually I am not a big believer in fate, but perhaps I was fated to go this route. As you said, you probably would have signed the contract even if you could go back in time to try to convince yourself otherwise.

 

[spicedmanna]

ditto... I come from a military family (both dad and grandfather are West Point grads) I talked with people in all three branches and everyone, EVERYONE, told me to go AF (other than this board), everyone I talked to in the military had great things say about the AF

Exactly. I had a very similar experience as you in regards to this.

 

[a1qwerty55]

ditto... I come from a military family (both dad and grandfather are West Point grads) I talked with people in all three branches and everyone, EVERYONE, told me to go AF (other than this board), everyone I talked to in the military had great things say about the AF

Yes, the USAF treats pilots well, and their enlisted well but treats their physicians very poorly. This is common knowledge in the medical community. The mistake you and your family are making is in assuming that Army physicians (not GMO's) are closer to Infantry, and USAF physicians are closer to pilots in the way they are treated.

USAF airmen deserved great care so I'm not trying to undermine their recruitment, but there is something to be said for addressing misconceptions.

You have a much higher change of doing a GMO in the USAF, you will be doing longer deployments than the current 4 months, and you will move more frequently as the USAF still persists in the mindset that you need to be moving every 3-4 years. You also will work in a facility grossly undermanned. The Army has figured out that you don't retain docs, especially if they have working spouses if you arbitrarily move them.

I still think you can have a positive experience even in the USAF and if you feel that is a calling you Should serve, but it cracks me up when people persist in this fallacy that the USAF is somehow more conducive to family life, quality of life etc.

Ask yourself if the Army is so much larger than the USAF, why are is there such a disproportionate number of the bitter USAF posters on this site?

 

[haujun]

ditto... I come from a military family (both dad and grandfather are West Point grads) I talked with people in all three branches and everyone, EVERYONE, told me to go AF (other than this board), everyone I talked to in the military had great things say about the AF

First welcome to military.

Just be sure that those everyone includes sufficient number of active military physicians (rather difficult unless you put out some effort). Talking to retired or current military members (non-physicians) may help but talking to current military physicians will shed light on what to expect (*though your career and experience may different*)

From reading your posts in the forum (and other posted here) it looks like you all made decision to join HPSP and just need some reason to feel better on your decision to obtain HPSP.

Congrats and good luck and keep open mind as your enter the military medicine.

 

[LauraDO]

Yes, the USAF treats pilots well, and their enlisted well but treats their physicians very poorly. This is common knowledge in the medical community. The mistake you and your family are making is in assuming that Army physicians (not GMO's) are closer to Infantry, and USAF physicians are closer to pilots in the way they are treated.

USAF airmen deserved great care so I'm not trying to undermine their recruitment, but there is something to be said for addressing misconceptions.

You have a much higher change of doing a GMO in the USAF, you will be doing longer deployments than the current 4 months, and you will move more frequently as the USAF still persists in the mindset that you need to be moving every 3-4 years. You also will work in a facility grossly undermanned. The Army has figured out that you don't retain docs, especially if they have working spouses if you arbitrarily move them.

I still think you can have a positive experience even in the USAF and if you feel that is a calling you Should serve, but it cracks me up when people persist in this fallacy that the USAF is somehow more conducive to family life, quality of life etc.

Ask yourself if the Army is so much larger than the USAF, why are is there such a disproportionate number of the bitter USAF posters on this site?

You are serving and I am not, so I am not going to disagree with what you are saying. However I talked to both Doctors and Officers in both services and this is what the Doctors themselves told me (other than the Army Doctors that my recruiter set me up with-who of course were all for Army) I, in fact was told just the opposite about moving (but I was an army brat moving around doesn't bother me). As far as deployments, I really don't mind either the Army or hte Air Force length, I wouldn't mind being deployed , so that didn't weight into my decision.

I think alot of the bitterness that comes from some of the AF docs comes from the fact that they went in thinking that the AF wasn't really as 'military' as the other forces, they were given some bull from their recruiter about how it was the softer, friendlier service and then when all the sudden they were sent to war they felt screwed (and with good reason) I go in, under no false pretenses, if things suck for me, then it is only my fault and so I will make the best of them, bitterness comes from feelings of being decieved in someway, I know what might be in store for me, do I hope I am one of the lucky ones, Hell Yeah, but I am prepared for the worse case scenario

In the end I think I would have been fine in either Army or Air Force, but Air Force is the one that came through first--

 

[LauraDO]

First welcome to military.

Just be sure that those everyone includes sufficient number of active military physicians (rather difficult unless you put out some effort). Talking to retired or current military members (non-physicians) may help but talking to current military physicians will shed light on what to expect (*though your career and experience may different*)

From reading your posts in the forum (and other posted here) it looks like you all made decision to join HPSP and just need some reason to feel better on your decision to obtain HPSP.

Congrats and good luck and keep open mind as your enter the military medicine.;)

Thanks, this is very good advice. I appreciate it

 

[spicedmanna]

I think alot of the bitterness that comes from some of the AF docs comes from the fact that they went in thinking that the AF wasn't really as 'military' as the other forces, they were given some bull from their recruiter about how it was the softer, friendlier service and then when all the sudden they were sent to war they felt screwed (and with good reason) I go in, under no false pretenses, if things suck for me, then it is only my fault and so I will make the best of them, bitterness comes from feelings of being decieved in someway, I know what might be in store for me, do I hope I am one of the lucky ones, Hell Yeah, but I am prepared for the worse case scenario

You might be right. In any case, while I don't know all the horrors that are in store for me, I am aware of some of them. I've already braced myself for a pretty bumpy ride, with a significant loss of personal freedom, and fully expect to be deployed. I know that the USAF owns me now and that I may end up doing a FS/GMO billet for a couple of years, and/or after finishing residency, I may be stationed in some undermanned, under-supplied, community medical center in the middle of nowhere, commanded by a Nurse. Still, I think I'm all in for the ride. Maybe I am crazy.

 

[MaximusD]

WAIT, so you're telling me that there isn't a 97% first-choice match-rate and that the phase-out of GMOs is smoke and mirrors? Blasphemy!

 

[LauraDO]

WAIT, so you're telling me that there isn't a 97% first-choice match-rate and that the phase-out of GMOs is smoke and mirrors? Blasphemy!

damn! I guess that means the complimentary weekly massages and required bi-yearly paid vacation in Hawaii was a lie too? I knew something was fishy, but I mean....no massages....that is just cruel, I can't be expected to work under those conditions

 

[spicedmanna]

...required bi-yearly paid vacation in Hawaii was a lie too?

Wait, what?! Awww....

 

[Jolie South]

damn! I guess that means the complimentary weekly massages and required bi-yearly paid vacation in Hawaii was a lie too? I knew something was fishy, but I mean....no massages....that is just cruel, I can't be expected to work under those conditions

at least they can't say we weren't warned.

 

[spicedmanna]

I mean....no massages....that is just cruel, I can't be expected to work under those conditions

Well, I might be able to help with that. I'm no massage therapist, but I do have some minimal OMT skills, which includes myofascial release.

 

[Milamber]

Well I'm off to sign my contract... Army HPSP here I come.

 

[spicedmanna]

Well I'm off to sign my contract... Army HPSP here I come.

Congrats!

 

[LauraDO]

Congrats!

ditto

 

[Milamber]

Contract is signed and delivered... had my dad (former Army) swear me in now I'm just waiting for my orders to come on down (as they say on the price is right.

Thanks BTW

 

[spicedmanna]

Contract is signed and delivered... had my dad (former Army) swear me in now I'm just waiting for my orders to come on down (as they say on the price is right.

Thanks BTW