•••quote:•••Originally posted by serendipity475:
•how can i find out which med schools participate in dog lab? i tried running a search on google, with no luck. Help!•••••First, here is the thread from 2000-2001:
<a href="http://www.studentdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001621" target="_blank">Dog Lab?</a>
I just did a google search typing "dog labs, medical school," and came up with a bunch of links, including: <a href="http://www.doctorsagainstdoglabs.com/" target="_blank">Doctors Against Dog Lab</a>
<a href="http://www.pcrm.org/issues/Ethics_in_Medical_Research/ethics_medical.html" target="_blank">Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine</a>
Here is an actual list of schools that DO NOT use the dog lab: <a href="http://www.pcrm.org/issues/Ethics_in_Medical_Research/ethics_med_list.html" target="_blank">Schools Without the Dog Lab</a>
Zeffer, you made the point that in an ER, you would choose the person who had trained on a living model (ie, a dog), over a person who trained on a very high-priced (ie, 6-figure) simulator. First off, if you look at the list of schools that currently do not use a dog lab, you will see that many highly-regarded schools (ie, highly-regarded by residency directors) do not use dog labs. These are all schools with extremely impressive match lists and who have some of the most outstanding hospitals in the world. If the dog lab were really that integral to medical education, I seriously doubt that students from these schools would do as well as they do in the match, would be as well-regarded by residency programs, etc. Not to pick on one school, but just by looking at the list really quickly I saw that University of Arkansas still uses the dog lab -- in the ER, would you really prefer a student or resident from Arkansas who had done the dog lab, over a student from Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Columbia, Wash U, Duke, Michigan, Penn, U. of Washington, Yale, Stanford, Baylor, UCLA, UCSF, etc? I'm not saying that the student from Arkansas is bad or poorly trained -- just that I don't think you can make a blanket statement that a student who has gone through the dog lab is somehow more qualified than a student who hasn't. The information just isn't there to support that assertion.
As for using simulators over an animal model (ie, a dog), I can't really comment because I haven't used both. However, I think AJM made many valid points over why a simulator would be preferable -- it is an actual simulation of the human system you are training to work on. Dog physiology is helpful, but only to a certain point.
med student -- I think AJM already answered your point pretty well, but money and time isn't the only reason, nor the main reason why many schools have stopped doing the dog lab. First off, many of the high-tech simulators are incredibly expensive -- I think Cobragirl mentioned that they are $150K+, so it's not exactly a cheap investment for the schools that use them. Secondly, many of these schools have absurdly large endowments available to them -- if Harvard or Hopkins needed to, they could definitely find the money to finance a dog lab.
I think one of the reasons that dog labs have disappeared more and more is because schools are buckling to pressure from animal activist groups, diesnfranchised students and physicians, etc. However, the schools that have eliminated the dog labs still maintain animal testing laboratories. As I mentioned previoulsy, I think schools acknowledge that there are other ways to learn the material from a dog lab, that are just as good if not better. The same cannot be said for animal testing at this point.