Doing Locums on vacation time before making partner

[repititionition]

A question for the experienced private practice folks here. I’m starting with a group that offers up to 12 weeks of vacation to everyone, partners or partner-track, and am wondering how a group is likely to view my using some of that time to do locums.

I can’t imagine a group would care how I spend my vacation time (any locums would be geographically distant from home), but wanted to run this by folks before booking anything.

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[dabears505]

Did exactly that when I was younger. The only thing to watch out for is burnout and issues that it can cause with your spouse. I literally went 2 years without a week off because the money just drew me in. Did a lot of relationship and body damage

 

[sevoflurane]

A question for the experienced private practice folks here. I’m starting with a group that offers up to 12 weeks of vacation to everyone, partners or partner-track, and am wondering how a group is likely to view my using some of that time to do locums.

I can’t imagine a group would care how I spend my vacation time (any locums would be geographically distant from home), but wanted to run this by folks before booking anything.

your vacation. you do you.

 

[sevoflurane]

better option may be to sell vacation to your current group and not worry about the hassle and likely come out ahead compared to locums.

 

[UscGhost]

Just be careful regarding your malpractice. Many groups pay for your malpractice but then refuse to allow you to practice outside of their designated sites.

I assume locums can provide the malpractice for you

 

[Arch Guillotti]

A question for the experienced private practice folks here. I’m starting with a group that offers up to 12 weeks of vacation to everyone, partners or partner-track, and am wondering how a group is likely to view my using some of that time to do locums.

I can’t imagine a group would care how I spend my vacation time (any locums would be geographically distant from home), but wanted to run this by folks before booking anything.

Some places can get kind of weird about it.

 

[repititionition]

better option may be to sell vacation to your current group and not worry about the hassle and likely come out ahead compared to locums.

I’m not sure I follow. We’re based on production, so if I don’t take the vacation, I generate more income (through my group). Is this what you mean?

The reason I’m considering taking a few weeks of locums each year is the opportunity to let my wife+kids do some out of town vacation while I work 7-3. I get evenings and weekends in a different place, and to write off some of the travel in the bargain.

 

[DirtDocMD]

It’s your time.

If you wanna be “respectful” (esp since you haven’t made partner, yet), you might ask if they would like to have you work a few of the weeks for the group. If they say “no”, then I’d be pretty guilt-free about finding some weeks, elsewhere.

 

[USCTrojan11]

Why does it matter what you do with your free time?

Also locums rates are great and my family gets to enjoy the locale (usually a beach resort) while I'm home by 3 for a nice dinner, evening activities etc

 

[Hoya11]

Why does it matter what you do with your free time?

Also locums rates are great and my family gets to enjoy the locale (usually a beach resort) while I'm home by 3 for a nice dinner, evening activities etc

agree, but what a pain.

new license in another state, credentialing, new faces and protocols, why bother? i would just stay home and work if i want to work and then go on vacation and not work when i wanted

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Why does it matter what you do with your free time?

It doesn't. But some groups don't want you doing it anyway.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

agree, but what a pain.

new license in another state, credentialing, new faces and protocols, why bother? i would just stay home and work if i want to work and then go on vacation and not work when i wanted

My parents live in a different state. Can visit them for a few weeks, and make cash during business hours

 

[sleepallday]

If you were in my group, i wouldn't care as long you setup and worked under a completely separate entity and malpractice insurance. I wouldn't want the entire group being named in any malpractice issues.

 

[USCTrojan11]

If you were in my group, i wouldn't care as long you setup and worked under a completely separate entity and malpractice insurance. I wouldn't want the entire group being named in any malpractice issues.

Jeez, seems like no one understands how businesses work nowadays. Which is probably why MD groups are all getting fleeced while our CRNA counterparts make nearly the same for much less "work"

 

[sleepallday]

Jeez, seems like no one understands how businesses work nowadays. Which is probably why MD groups are all getting fleeced while our CRNA counterparts make nearly the same for much less "work"

don't think I understand your point

 

[USCTrojan11]

don't think I understand your point

Why would doing locums at a different facility presumably miles away, in a different healthcare system, under a different contract give the group any remote possibility of being named in a malpractice lawsuit. That's like saying Tom Brady committed murder in California during the offseason and someone was going to name the entire Tampa Bucs organization in the civil lawsuit.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Why would doing locums at a different facility presumably miles away, in a different healthcare system, under a different contract give the group any remote possibility of being named in a malpractice lawsuit. That's like saying Tom Brady committed murder in California during the offseason and someone was going to name the entire Tampa Bucs organization in the civil lawsuit.

They may not be named in the lawsuit but they may be mentioned. Not a good look however farfetched the whole idea is.

 

[sleepallday]

Why would doing locums at a different facility presumably miles away, in a different healthcare system, under a different contract give the group any remote possibility of being named in a malpractice lawsuit. That's like saying Tom Brady committed murder in California during the offseason and someone was going to name the entire Tampa Bucs organization in the civil lawsuit.

don't think you understand how this works. most times when an anesthesiologist gets sued, the whole corporation gets named in the lawsuit. there's no reason for the entire group to deal with the headache when the employee or partner was moonlighting.

That's why i said the individual should form their own corporation completely separate from their primary group to avoid this issue.

 

[Dr. Rude]

They definitely will not want you doing locums with a competitor. Possibly not in the geographic area of your primary practice. Agree with inquiring about selling your vacation to a partner, options for working more and making more first with your current employer.

 

[USCTrojan11]

don't think you understand how this works. most times when an anesthesiologist gets sued, the whole corporation gets named in the lawsuit. there's no reason for the entire group to deal with the headache when the employee or partner was moonlighting.

That's why i said the individual should form their own corporation completely separate from their primary group to avoid this issue.

I know you don't understand how this works. Find me a claim or suit where a practice group in another state is named for something an MD did while under a different contract outside of their non-compete area. This would be laughed out of court. Yes the corporation would be named if he was practicing under his current group and committed malpractice, but NOT when he has nothing to do with his group while under a different contract. It's almost like you WANT to be owned by the corporations. Why don't you just say it out loud and realize how stupid what you are claiming sounds.

 

[USCTrojan11]

They definitely will not want you doing locums with a competitor. Possibly not in the geographic area of your primary practice. Agree with inquiring about selling your vacation to a partner, options for working more and making more first with your current employer.

This is why he said it would be geograpically different locale...

Your group's moonlighting rate will be nowhere near the 300-450/hr locums is paying right now.

 

[D P356]

This is why he said it would be geograpically different locale...

Your group's moonlighting rate will be nowhere near the 300-450/hr locums is paying right now.

300-350? Yes

450? Post it.

 

[sevoflurane]

don't think you understand how this works. most times when an anesthesiologist gets sued, the whole corporation gets named in the lawsuit. there's no reason for the entire group to deal with the headache when the employee or partner was moonlighting.

That's why i said the individual should form their own corporation completely separate from their primary group to avoid this issue.

always

 

[sevoflurane]

Just set up an S-corp, not hard and the way to go.

 

[sevoflurane]

It’s just a clean separation of partner position and “extra” work. It’s how I have done it in the past.

 

[Twiggidy]

I would do my best to calculate the cost of setting up a different corporation with separate malpractice, etc and whatever tax implications involved vs just doing extra work with my own group. Everything cost money, meaning, even if you go with a locums company who pays for everything, that will get skimmed off the earnings you make (most likely). If you just work extra in your own group, while it may not be $300-400/hr, it's basically just extra income on your W2. Only downside is working extra at home doesn't have the added benefit of traveling somewhere on vacation.

I'm sure a saavy person can find a way to come out ahead. I guess that's probably why I am where I am, because I tend to go for the easiest path possible.

As said above, whatever you do, make sure you're not doing anything to compete with your group. I'm sure they have contract language that you can't work anywhere that directly affects their business.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

300-350? Yes

450? Post it.

Nice try lol

I would do my best to calculate the cost of setting up a different corporation with separate malpractice, etc and whatever tax implications involved vs just doing extra work with my own group. Everything cost money, meaning, even if you go with a locums company who pays for everything, that will get skimmed off the earnings you make (most likely). If you just work extra in your own group, while it may not be $300-400/hr, it's basically just extra income on your W2. Only downside is working extra at home doesn't have the added benefit of traveling somewhere on vacation.

I'm sure a saavy person can find a way to come out ahead. I guess that's probably why I am where I am, because I tend to go for the easiest path possible.

As said above, whatever you do, make sure you're not doing anything to compete with your group. I'm sure they have contract language that you can't work anywhere that directly affects their business.

Other benefit of a 1099 locums is that you can add a SEP-IRA or deduct "business expenses" that a w2 cannot.

 

[abolt18]

Nice try lol


Other benefit of a 1099 locums is that you can add a SEP-IRA or deduct "business expenses" that a w2 cannot.

I'd sooner do a solo-401k so I don't screw up the backdoor Roth IRA.

 

[sleepallday]

I know you don't understand how this works. Find me a claim or suit where a practice group in another state is named for something an MD did while under a different contract outside of their non-compete area. This would be laughed out of court. Yes the corporation would be named if he was practicing under his current group and committed malpractice, but NOT when he has nothing to do with his group while under a different contract. It's almost like you WANT to be owned by the corporations. Why don't you just say it out loud and realize how stupid what you are claiming sounds.

huh? What corporation do I want to be owned by...I'm a shareholder...I own the corporation lol

anyways, no need to get so worked up about it. If you don't think its an issue, then do you. Just know that some groups won't be cool about it.

 

[USCTrojan11]

huh? What corporation do I want to be owned by...I'm a shareholder...I own the corporation lol

anyways, no need to get so worked up about it. If you don't think its an issue, then do you. Just know that some groups won't be cool about it.

If your corporation or group is not cool with you working on your own time as a separate S-corp under a different contract in a different locale outside your non-compete, then your group has serious issues.

 

[sleepallday]

If your corporation or group is not cool with you working on your own time as a separate S-corp under a different contract in a different locale outside your non-compete, then your group has serious issues.

umm ok wasn't that my original point that you had a problem with. form your own entity and its all good

If you were in my group, i wouldn't care as long you setup and worked under a completely separate entity and malpractice insurance. I wouldn't want the entire group being named in any malpractice issues.

Jeez, seems like no one understands how businesses work nowadays. Which is probably why MD groups are all getting fleeced while our CRNA counterparts make nearly the same for much less "work"

 

[pgg]

I'd sooner do a solo-401k so I don't screw up the backdoor Roth IRA.

It's easy enough to roll the SEP into a 401(k) every Nov or Dec. The only day that matters is Dec 31 when the IRA balance has to be zero. Nothing to mess up, unless you forget and don't do it at all.

 

[pgg]

If your corporation or group is not cool with you working on your own time as a separate S-corp under a different contract in a different locale outside your non-compete, then your group has serious issues.

Just to play devil's advocate - I think a group in which you are a partner and co-owner can have a reasonable expectation that your first/primary priority is the well-being and growth of that group. I can understand why moonlighting elsewhere might be discouraged.

Although my almost-former employer (the US Navy for 16 more days) is the absolute polar opposite of a private group, there's a similar theme there with the conditions they set for outside employment. Maybe the nanny-state environment of the military isn't a great comparison to what we're discussing in this thread, but the military is quite preoccupied with ensuring that its people aren't grinding out hours elsewhere / burning the candle at both ends ... at least to the degree that fatigue and burnout impact performance at the Navy day job.

I'm going to guess that most of us here think that doctors ought to be trusted to manage their own schedules, get enough rest, and take care of their mental health without a committee to help and dole out permission for off-duty activities. But objectively speaking, present company excluded of course, doctors tend to be kind of ****ty with that work-life balance thing. It doesn't surprise me in the least that discouraging outside employment is common, even if there's no direct competition or liability.

 

[2Fast2Des]

Funny how CRNAs can work anywhere and everywhere on their own time making boko bucks and here we limit ourselves because of some perceived slight that the group would take that someone can work outside the purview of the group.

 

[kidthor]

Funny how CRNAs can work anywhere and everywhere on their own time making boko bucks and here we limit ourselves because of some perceived slight that the group would take that someone can work outside the purview of the group.

I totally agreee.

At a prior job the anesthesiologists were prohibited from outside work and the CRNAs weren’t. Both were directly employed by our department. It made no sense.

 

[abolt18]

I totally agreee.

At a prior job the anesthesiologists were prohibited from outside work and the CRNAs weren’t. Both were directly employed by our department. It made no sense.

This is how it is at my institution. It is pretty upsetting.