Don't love patient interaction - am I insane to apply to medical school?

[yerb_]

Okay, so let me explain:
I am four years out of college (but only 22 since I graduated college very early) and have worked at various research labs + biotech companies. I enjoy research a lot, enjoy reading papers and discussing science with other researchers. I do not see myself doing a PhD since that would involve soul-crushing 5-6 years just to be doing a similar job to what I am doing now, just making 30k more a year.

I have dabbled with the idea of med school ever since college and so I got my EMT cert and have been working weekend shifts as an event EMT. I've also been studying for the MCAT for the past 3 months. I have never shadowed any doctors yet.

So why not medical school?

The other day I was seeing my ObGyn, and she was asking me about my job, etc (making small talk) during the exam. And I had this visceral feeling of, I would hate to do this every day as my job. I love having my desk or bench space, working mostly solo and being able to banter with coworkers. I like being in my head 80% of the time, wrangling with problems and trying to come up with ideas. I don't know if I could see patient after patient, make constant small talk, etc. I am technically not actually an introvert because I really do enjoy talking to all my coworkers, but that's a very different level of social energy than always talking to strangers.

So why medical school?

I loooove learning about physiology, the human body. My EMT program was a blast. I like the idea of getting a lot of little problems throughout the day and trying to solve all the different puzzles. Very important to me: I'd like to have a recession-proof job that puts me solidly in the middle class (grew up extremely poor so the idea of making 70-100k per year the rest of my life whilst trying to have a family gives me anxiety already). I'd like an intellectually stimulating job.

I think the specialties of anesthesiology/CC, radiology, and pathology seem interesting to me. But if I am already ruling out patient interaction-heavy specialties NOW and I am not even IN med school yet, is it unwise to go through the effort and should I instead find something else that can scratch the itch?

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[Lawpy]

But if I am already ruling out patient interaction-heavy specialties NOW and I am not even IN med school yet, is it unwise to go through the effort and should I instead find something else that can scratch the itch?

Yes it’s a bad idea to pursue medicine if you don’t like interacting with patients

Medicine is ultimately a service profession, and you need to be comfortable interacting with people especially during their worst and most difficult moments. If you like medicine because of the science, you should do a PhD instead

 

[Med Ed]

Okay, so let me explain:
I am four years out of college (but only 22 since I graduated college very early) and have worked at various research labs + biotech companies. I enjoy research a lot, enjoy reading papers and discussing science with other researchers. I do not see myself doing a PhD since that would involve soul-crushing 5-6 years just to be doing a similar job to what I am doing now, just making 30k more a year.

I have dabbled with the idea of med school ever since college and so I got my EMT cert and have been working weekend shifts as an event EMT. I've also been studying for the MCAT for the past 3 months. I have never shadowed any doctors yet.

So why not medical school?

The other day I was seeing my ObGyn, and she was asking me about my job, etc (making small talk) during the exam. And I had this visceral feeling of, I would hate to do this every day as my job. I love having my desk or bench space, working mostly solo and being able to banter with coworkers. I like being in my head 80% of the time, wrangling with problems and trying to come up with ideas. I don't know if I could see patient after patient, make constant small talk, etc. I am technically not actually an introvert because I really do enjoy talking to all my coworkers, but that's a very different level of social energy than always talking to strangers.

It sounds like you're an introvert who has some misconceptions about introversion.

So why medical school?


I loooove learning about physiology, the human body. My EMT program was a blast. I like the idea of getting a lot of little problems throughout the day and trying to solve all the different puzzles. Very important to me: I'd like to have a recession-proof job that puts me solidly in the middle class (grew up extremely poor so the idea of making 70-100k per year the rest of my life whilst trying to have a family gives me anxiety already). I'd like an intellectually stimulating job.

I think the specialties of anesthesiology/CC, radiology, and pathology seem interesting to me. But if I am already ruling out patient interaction-heavy specialties NOW and I am not even IN med school yet, is it unwise to go through the effort and should I instead find something else that can scratch the itch?

The reasons you have enumerated are all basically self-centered. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's not necessarily a good starting point to consider a profession that is fundamentally service-oriented.

The good news is that medicine has many, many niches that appeal to many, many different interests and personality types. Perhaps some shadowing of different specialties would help you decide if this is a route you wish to pursue.

 

[yerb_]

It sounds like you're an introvert who has some misconceptions about introversion.


The reasons you have enumerated are all basically self-centered. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's not necessarily a good starting point to consider a profession that is fundamentally service-oriented.

The good news is that medicine has many, many niches that appeal to many, many different interests and personality types. Perhaps some shadowing of different specialties would help you decide if this is a route you wish to pursue.

I definitely understand what you mean - and the times that I help out a patient during an EMT shift, I am happy to go the extra mile to chat with them about their grandchildren or even help them go to the bathroom (when it's a wheelchair-bound person and it's clear that they would like the help). I do these things even though I technically don't need to, I genuinely enjoy doing them. But I certainly would never have the energy to do it all day, every day, for an entire career.

I like the last sentence you posed - I have heard this before and that's what reassured me about med school previously. But since then I have heard some people say "go to med school to become a physician (and treat patients), don't go to med school to be a radiologist/surgeon/etc." And in a sense I feel like I am already not embodying that spirit.

 

[Moko]

Okay, so let me explain:
I am four years out of college (but only 22 since I graduated college very early) and have worked at various research labs + biotech companies. I enjoy research a lot, enjoy reading papers and discussing science with other researchers. I do not see myself doing a PhD since that would involve soul-crushing 5-6 years just to be doing a similar job to what I am doing now, just making 30k more a year.

I have dabbled with the idea of med school ever since college and so I got my EMT cert and have been working weekend shifts as an event EMT. I've also been studying for the MCAT for the past 3 months. I have never shadowed any doctors yet.

So why not medical school?

The other day I was seeing my ObGyn, and she was asking me about my job, etc (making small talk) during the exam. And I had this visceral feeling of, I would hate to do this every day as my job. I love having my desk or bench space, working mostly solo and being able to banter with coworkers. I like being in my head 80% of the time, wrangling with problems and trying to come up with ideas. I don't know if I could see patient after patient, make constant small talk, etc. I am technically not actually an introvert because I really do enjoy talking to all my coworkers, but that's a very different level of social energy than always talking to strangers.

So why medical school?

I loooove learning about physiology, the human body. My EMT program was a blast. I like the idea of getting a lot of little problems throughout the day and trying to solve all the different puzzles. Very important to me: I'd like to have a recession-proof job that puts me solidly in the middle class (grew up extremely poor so the idea of making 70-100k per year the rest of my life whilst trying to have a family gives me anxiety already). I'd like an intellectually stimulating job.

I think the specialties of anesthesiology/CC, radiology, and pathology seem interesting to me. But if I am already ruling out patient interaction-heavy specialties NOW and I am not even IN med school yet, is it unwise to go through the effort and should I instead find something else that can scratch the itch?

Yes, you are crazy to pursue medicine if you already know that you dislike interacting with patients. You're looking at 4 years of medical school and 4+ years of post graduate training. Anesthesia and interventional radiology both require frequent patient interactions. Diagnostic radiology still requires a clinical intern year. Though pathology has the least amount of patient interactions, if it turns out you don't like pathology (or suck at it), then you're out of luck. Just my thoughts.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Pathology
Radiology

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Check out alternatives: anesthesiologist assistant (fewer interactions?), surgical assistant, pathologist assistant. You could also consider medical lab tech positions perhaps.

And shadow before making any career decisions.

 

[yerb_]

Check out alternatives: anesthesiologist assistant (fewer interactions?), surgical assistant, pathologist assistant.

Great suggestion - though I do worry about intellectual stimulation. The beauty of going the physician route is a deep understanding and being able to discuss/debate best treatments, educate about what things mean, delve into new research. (speaking from a non-physician ofc, could be wrong)

 

[wysdoc]

Great suggestion - though I do worry about intellectual stimulation. The beauty of going the physician route is a deep understanding and being able to discuss/debate best treatments, educate about what things mean, delve into new research. (speaking from a non-physician ofc, could be wrong)

medical device or pharmaceutical industry jobs could be in your interest zone

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Sounds like PhD would be a better option, but I would choose a discipline that has more utility in industry (ie biomedical engineering rather than evolutionary biology for instance), given that even some post docs at the UG I attended (top 10) had trouble finding tenure track positions.

 

[yerb_]

Thank you all for the suggestions. Now it's got me wondering, what do introverts do when they enter med school (and how do they handle constant patient interactions)? Obviously just because you are an introvert, doesn't mean you shun small talk like a vampire would sunlight. But I wonder how introvert premeds get excited to do a career of 20+ patients per day, every day, for the rest of their career.

 

[Med Ed]

I like the last sentence you posed - I have heard this before and that's what reassured me about med school previously. But since then I have heard some people say "go to med school to become a physician (and treat patients), don't go to med school to be a radiologist/surgeon/etc." And in a sense I feel like I am already not embodying that spirit.

Again, gathering opinions from practicing physicians would be extremely helpful. Medicine is a tough profession, and anyone who starts medical school can end up disillusioned and burnt out. The problem is that you don't really find out if it suits you until it's too late.

I have noticed that if you say you want to go to medical school to be a pediatrician or family doc people tend to congratulate you. If you say you want to become a radiologist or pathologist they have a very different reaction. But the propositions are pretty much the same. Actually, you're probably better off as an aspiring pathologist who develops an unexpected love of patients than a would-be pediatrician who develops a disdain for them.

Thank you all for the suggestions. Now it's got me wondering, what do introverts do when they enter med school (and how do they handle constant patient interactions)? Obviously just because you are an introvert, doesn't mean you shun small talk like a vampire would sunlight. But I wonder how introvert premeds get excited to do a career of 20+ patients per day, every day, for the rest of their career.

I literally don't know anyone who gets excited at the thought of 20+ patients per day.

 

[yerb_]

I literally don't know anyone who gets excited at the thought of 20+ patients per day.

Touche

 

[yerb_]

I have noticed that if you say you want to go to medical school to be a pediatrician or family doc people tend to congratulate you. If you say you want to become a radiologist or pathologist they have a very different reaction. But the propositions are pretty much the same. Actually, you're probably better off as an aspiring pathologist who develops an unexpected love of patients than a would-be pediatrician who develops a disdain for them.

Great points!!!

 

[DarkBluMage]

Okay, so let me explain:
I am four years out of college (but only 22 since I graduated college very early) and have worked at various research labs + biotech companies. I enjoy research a lot, enjoy reading papers and discussing science with other researchers. I do not see myself doing a PhD since that would involve soul-crushing 5-6 years just to be doing a similar job to what I am doing now, just making 30k more a year.

I have dabbled with the idea of med school ever since college and so I got my EMT cert and have been working weekend shifts as an event EMT. I've also been studying for the MCAT for the past 3 months. I have never shadowed any doctors yet.

So why not medical school?

The other day I was seeing my ObGyn, and she was asking me about my job, etc (making small talk) during the exam. And I had this visceral feeling of, I would hate to do this every day as my job. I love having my desk or bench space, working mostly solo and being able to banter with coworkers. I like being in my head 80% of the time, wrangling with problems and trying to come up with ideas. I don't know if I could see patient after patient, make constant small talk, etc. I am technically not actually an introvert because I really do enjoy talking to all my coworkers, but that's a very different level of social energy than always talking to strangers.

So why medical school?

I loooove learning about physiology, the human body. My EMT program was a blast. I like the idea of getting a lot of little problems throughout the day and trying to solve all the different puzzles. Very important to me: I'd like to have a recession-proof job that puts me solidly in the middle class (grew up extremely poor so the idea of making 70-100k per year the rest of my life whilst trying to have a family gives me anxiety already). I'd like an intellectually stimulating job.

I think the specialties of anesthesiology/CC, radiology, and pathology seem interesting to me. But if I am already ruling out patient interaction-heavy specialties NOW and I am not even IN med school yet, is it unwise to go through the effort and should I instead find something else that can scratch the itch?

Why would you entertain becoming a doctor if you have no interest in patient care? Doctors should care about helping people. Your points are very self centered and don’t seem to actually point towards caring about patients and that doesn’t bode well for a patient centered profession.

 

[yerb_]

Why would you entertain becoming a doctor if you have no interest in patient care? Doctors should care about helping people. Your points are very self centered and don’t seem to actually point towards caring about patients and that doesn’t bode well for a patient centered profession.

I hear you. I don't mean to come across like I don't care about helping people in general (I'd say the thing that makes me happiest at my current job is training new hires and helping coworkers with experiments, moreso than tackling a fancy new project solo). I like collaborative work. But I just worry about the social energy dynamic of constantly being in conversation with new people all day. Especially the aspects of interviewing patients for history, etc (which I have practiced as an EMT) all day would be exhausting (but maybe I'd get used to it).

I didn't mention this in the original post but 'helping people/the world' is an easy no-brainer non-negotiable (probably why I didn't even include it). Thing is, any career I am considering does this - from healthcare data scientist to researcher to teacher. So it doesn't really contribute towards the decision. That being said, practicing medicine is a whole different level of helping people (especially since you are sometimes there for them on their worst days - the biomedical engineer at the oncology company is many levels removed from the realities of cancer).

 

[LunaOri]

Do a little shadowing in lots of different specialties and talk to the physicians about the pros and cons of their specialties. See what appeals to you!
BTW, it’s relatively easy to find shadowing opportunities in the less patient-facing specialties.

 

[candbgirl]

But the bottom line is you have to change or figure out how to be comfortable talking to patients and their families. If a patient isn’t comfortable telling you important symptoms or concerns you won’t be able to treat them effectively. If the patient picks up on your uneasiness in dealing with them they are likely to withdraw too and not deal with you. And that leads to bad outcomes all around.
Get a PhD. Become a teacher, teach med students. But you really haven’t listed one realistic reason why you should spend the next 7+ years training to be a doctor only to be miserable every single day.
I agree you should shadow several docs. You will quickly see they interact all day with lots of different people, not just patients.
You said you like to “train new hires and helping coworkers with experiments”. Find a career helping people but not a career helping them make life and death decisions.
Good luck as you decide.

 

[LizzyM]

You might consider becoming a pathologist assistant.

https://www.pathassist.org/page/AboutUs_NAACLS

The money might not be enough for you, though.... but it is an idea. Quicker than PhD, bench, co-workers. It does have some things going for it.

 

[Goro]

Okay, so let me explain:
I am four years out of college (but only 22 since I graduated college very early) and have worked at various research labs + biotech companies. I enjoy research a lot, enjoy reading papers and discussing science with other researchers. I do not see myself doing a PhD since that would involve soul-crushing 5-6 years just to be doing a similar job to what I am doing now, just making 30k more a year.

It's fine to like research. And you're right, the PhD route is really tough lately. But no need for a PhD. See below.

I have dabbled with the idea of med school ever since college and so I got my EMT cert and have been working weekend shifts as an event EMT. I've also been studying for the MCAT for the past 3 months. I have never shadowed any doctors yet.

So why not medical school?

The other day I was seeing my ObGyn, and she was asking me about my job, etc (making small talk) during the exam. And I had this visceral feeling of, I would hate to do this every day as my job. I love having my desk or bench space, working mostly solo and being able to banter with coworkers. I like being in my head 80% of the time, wrangling with problems and trying to come up with ideas. I don't know if I could see patient after patient, make constant small talk, etc. I am technically not actually an introvert because I really do enjoy talking to all my coworkers, but that's a very different level of social energy than always talking to strangers.

Trust your gut

So why medical school?

I loooove learning about physiology, the human body. My EMT program was a blast. I like the idea of getting a lot of little problems throughout the day and trying to solve all the different puzzles.

You don't have to be a doctor for this

Very important to me: I'd like to have a recession-proof job that puts me solidly in the middle class (grew up extremely poor so the idea of making 70-100k per year the rest of my life whilst trying to have a family gives me anxiety already). I'd like an intellectually stimulating job.

Try to be aware that you can't have everything and if you go into Medicine just so you can have a nice fat salary, you will be miserable. Making bank is the baseline, and Medicine is a service profession.

I think the specialties of anesthesiology/CC, radiology, and pathology seem interesting to me. But if I am already ruling out patient interaction-heavy specialties NOW and I am not even IN med school yet, is it unwise to go through the effort and should I instead find something else that can scratch the itch?

It would be foolish for you to try for Medicine and frankly, I strongly suspect that your lack of passion for the profession (other than the desire to make bank) would be readily apparent at interviews).

So, I suggest sticking with what you're doing now, and try for clinical trial mgr, or either clinical or research lab mgr.

 

[chilly_md]

Very important to me: I'd like to have a recession-proof job that puts me solidly in the middle class (grew up extremely poor so the idea of making 70-100k per year the rest of my life whilst trying to have a family gives me anxiety already).

The range you listed is above the median income in the US and much of it is also above the median household income. Medical school is not the time to see if you could tolerate patients and those who are sick.

Considering your significant research experience up to this point, I agree with Goro’s suggestion of trying to become a lab manager. Other previously mentioned suggestions such as pharmaceutical industry jobs are also good. Bioinformatics might be worth looking into as well.

 

[Lawpy]

I hear you. I don't mean to come across like I don't care about helping people in general (I'd say the thing that makes me happiest at my current job is training new hires and helping coworkers with experiments, moreso than tackling a fancy new project solo). I like collaborative work. But I just worry about the social energy dynamic of constantly being in conversation with new people all day. Especially the aspects of interviewing patients for history, etc (which I have practiced as an EMT) all day would be exhausting (but maybe I'd get used to it).

I didn't mention this in the original post but 'helping people/the world' is an easy no-brainer non-negotiable (probably why I didn't even include it). Thing is, any career I am considering does this - from healthcare data scientist to researcher to teacher. So it doesn't really contribute towards the decision. That being said, practicing medicine is a whole different level of helping people (especially since you are sometimes there for them on their worst days - the biomedical engineer at the oncology company is many levels removed from the realities of cancer).

Yeah, you should not do medicine, as you’ll have a really bad time. I think the idea of being a lab manager is a good one and you should do that

 

[deleted1065184]

Agree with everybody who has said medicine is a clear no-go. It seems clear as day that you don't really want to be a physician, OP. But I'm gonna add something a little different than what I've read. You don't have to go into academia or biotech with a PhD. It's actually an incredibly flexible degree. You can go into government, other forms of industry, policy, university teaching, consulting, etc.

But the most important thing I'd like to highlight, which I think you should really keep in mind, is that you can very easily leave graduate school and go into consulting/industry making $150k+. I have numerous friends who I met during my PhD doing just that. You enjoy talking with coworkers and teaching, so I think it's quite likely that consulting is something you'd enjoy.

Also, if you go in with no desire to go into academia, you may actually be able to finish your PhD in 4-5 years (no guarantee, just something I noticed during grad school). Just pick a lab that publishes a lot and graduates people quickly. Good postdocs typically require a great grad school publication record, but if you don't plan to do a postdoc most thesis committees won't require you to get out multiple papers.

 

[yerb_]

Agree with everybody who has said medicine is a clear no-go. It seems clear as day that you don't really want to be a physician, OP. But I'm gonna add something a little different than what I've read. You don't have to go into academia or biotech with a PhD. It's actually an incredibly flexible degree. You can go into government, other forms of industry, policy, university teaching, consulting, etc.

But the most important thing I'd like to highlight, which I think you should really keep in mind, is that you can very easily leave graduate school and go into consulting/industry making $150k+. I have numerous friends who I met during my PhD doing just that. You enjoy talking with coworkers and teaching, so I think it's quite likely that consulting is something you'd enjoy.

Also, if you go in with no desire to go into academia, you may actually be able to finish your PhD in 4-5 years (no guarantee, just something I noticed during grad school). Just pick a lab that publishes a lot and graduates people quickly. Good postdocs typically require a great grad school publication record, but if you don't plan to do a postdoc most thesis committees won't require you to get out multiple papers.

Wow this is a really helpful post. I’ve just met so, so many miserable PhD students (and traumatized scientists in industry that go white when I ask about grad school) that I crossed that path out of my mind. But I suppose one could say the same about medicine, law, any arduous career path.

Out of curiosity, what do you do now?

 

[Tenk]

I hate most patient interactions. It’s like Groundhog Day and I have to explain the same thing for the 1,000th time to a new person. It gets old… fast. So I just treat it as theatre and pretend I’m an actor. As someone once said: “medicine is acting for ugly people.”

But don’t fret, I know plenty of doctors who hate people, just find a specialty you like and go for it. If that fails just internalize all your anger and frustration into a seething ball of rage like the rest of us.

 

[deleted1065184]

Wow this is a really helpful post. I’ve just met so, so many miserable PhD students (and traumatized scientists in industry that go white when I ask about grad school) that I crossed that path out of my mind. But I suppose one could say the same about medicine, law, any arduous career path.

Out of curiosity, what do you do now?

Yeah the DO, MD, JD, and PhD are all extremely difficult paths that very few people actually enjoy. I'm a medical student now, but not because I hated my PhD lol (although it was very challenging). I genuinely want to treat patients and do enjoy those interactions.....and I also want to run a lab. Not going to get into why I did my PhD first lol.

But as with any other doctoral degree, it's a means to an end. If you go in knowing you don't want to do academia, you can navigate your PhD differently than somebody like me. You can choose a PI who is not only supportive of non-academic careers, but also has connections for you. You'll still be expected to produce original work that contributes significantly to a field, but you can avoid some of the stress associated with wanting to become a PI. The key is to choose the right PI to work with.

 

[eigen]

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but it seems like you're writing off MS programs.

Given what you say (that you like bench work, you like classroom learning) I think an MS would be a far better path for you than a PhD.

It will give you increased mobility into industry, it will give you the same amount of classroom education as a PhD (usually) and will be quite a bit shorter. There are also a lot more MS programs set up for direct moves to industry than PhD programs (where it's more on you to work out the transition).

I'd look into MS programs in biotech, especially those with a strong internship component. MS in biomedical engineering might also be a possibility but might be a challenge depending on your background.

 

[LunaOri]

You might consider becoming a pathologist assistant.

https://www.pathassist.org/page/AboutUs_NAACLS

The money might not be enough for you, though.... but it is an idea. Quicker than PhD, bench, co-workers. It does have some things going for it.

It’s only a 2 year training program, and starting salary is about

You might consider becoming a pathologist assistant.

https://www.pathassist.org/page/AboutUs_NAACLS

The money might not be enough for you, though.... but it is an idea. Quicker than PhD, bench, co-workers. It does have some things going for it.

Path Assistant is a 2 year training program. Starting salary is about $100K. Lots of job openings, and it’s easy to find overtime/moonlighting opportunities.

 

[Med Ed]

Path Assistant is a 2 year training program. Starting salary is about $100K. Lots of job openings, and it’s easy to find overtime/moonlighting opportunities.

Path assistant work is extremely repetitive. You have to be drawn to the idea of performing the exact same tasks over and over with high precision. Some people love it, but it would drive many folks up the wall.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Isn’t pathology assistant mostly just grossing slides—not too much analyzing?

 

[SunBakedTrash]

For all you recommending pathology because OP doesn’t want to see patients, keep in mind it is a long road of seeing patients to get to the point where you can comfortably sit behind the desk and sign out in peace. Also we have to deal with other doctors, who we all know are way more of a pain than most patients.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Going to take a slightly different track - from my reading of OP, it sounds like you maybe don’t actually hate interacting with patients (you seem to like it as an EMT?) but rather the idea of a full outpatient clinic schedule seems overwhelming to you. Good news is, plenty of people in medicine don’t love clinic. If you really can’t see yourself EVER tolerating that environment, then yeah med school is a terrible idea. But have you ever had the chance to shadow an inpatient medicine service? Or a any non-clinic specialty? The workflow for those is very different than clinic and requires different types of social interactions/work tasks, which you may not actually hate as much.

I think you are someone who would definitely benefit from shadowing before making any decisions. I definitely wouldn’t apply to med school in your current mindset without learning a bit more about whether you could enjoy it, I just think there’s just a chance you may hate it less than you think. But if there are other viable options you should definitely explore those.

 

[yerb_]

Going to take a slightly different track - from my reading of OP, it sounds like you maybe don’t actually hate interacting with patients (you seem to like it as an EMT?) but rather the idea of a full outpatient clinic schedule seems overwhelming to you. Good news is, plenty of people in medicine don’t love clinic. If you really can’t see yourself EVER tolerating that environment, then yeah med school is a terrible idea. But have you ever had the chance to shadow an inpatient medicine service? Or a any non-clinic specialty? The workflow for those is very different than clinic and requires different types of social interactions/work tasks, which you may not actually hate as much.

I think you are someone who would definitely benefit from shadowing before making any decisions. I definitely wouldn’t apply to med school in your current mindset without learning a bit more about whether you could enjoy it, I just think there’s just a chance you may hate it less than you think. But if there are other viable options you should definitely explore those.

Your advice is hitting me the most. I think you are completely right. I just saw a random Youtube video today on a Neurology resident’s day in the life, and she went from the ER, to spending time at her desk alongside other residents, to talking with neuroradiologists and getting explanation about her patient’s scans. I saw this video after researching about data scientist jobs, bioinformatics etc which all end up being desk jobs with some meetings - and I couldn’t help but think it was an amazingly diverse day with SOME desk time to think about her cases but also getting to interact with many other smart people (ie other docs, residents). That comparison doesn’t exist in software/tech. So now I am both more confused and eager to shadow

Now it just becomes a difficulty to find shadowing experiences..

 

[nicesecrets]

Wow this is a really helpful post. I’ve just met so, so many miserable PhD students (and traumatized scientists in industry that go white when I ask about grad school) that I crossed that path out of my mind. But I suppose one could say the same about medicine, law, any arduous career path.

Out of curiosity, what do you do now?

PhD here who was miserable briefly in school, but am now in industry and not miserable at all (4+ years). You can DM me if you want to chat or learn more about possible tracks for PhD in biotech. Not all PhDs are miserable, not all PhD jobs are in hot water, and the money can be much more than 60-80k. My total comp after four years experience (and PhD that took 4 years) is 300k and most days I work 9-5, no weekends

 

[JOYpinions]

You will have a hard time during your third year rotations when you’re doing your core clerkships. However, like you said, there are plenty of specialties where you don’t necessarily have to interact with patients. Pathology, the ENTIRE field (including all of its numerous sub specialties), pretty much don’t require you to interact with other patients. In fact, forensic pathologists only deal with the deceased. The only thing is that remember your colleagues will be people too. If you don’t mind interacting with your colleagues and teammates, you should be good to go. Also, a lot of surgeons don’t interact with their patients long-term, as they don’t do clinics too much. If they do, they’re usually short and straight to the point considering the surgery in question. I wouldn’t brush off medicine because of your dilemma because it sounds like you are passionate about the body and its related sciences.

Like what most people have mentioned, you sound like you’d hate outpatient clinics, which I completely am with you because I also do not like it, and I’m already halfway done with med school. Medicine is broad, and there really is a place for everyone. I’d highly suggest talking/interacting with more physicians, residents, and med students!

 

[JOYpinions]

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but it seems like you're writing off MS programs.

Given what you say (that you like bench work, you like classroom learning) I think an MS would be a far better path for you than a PhD.

It will give you increased mobility into industry, it will give you the same amount of classroom education as a PhD (usually) and will be quite a bit shorter. There are also a lot more MS programs set up for direct moves to industry than PhD programs (where it's more on you to work out the transition).

I'd look into MS programs in biotech, especially those with a strong internship component. MS in biomedical engineering might also be a possibility but might be a challenge depending on your background.

I’d suggest against this unless you are really lacking a network or skills. An MS is now becoming more and more irrelevant, as when you’re about to enter the work field, you’ll be competing with BS grads who already have a couple of years of experience under their belt. You have a good shot of entering industry with just a bachelor’s rather than a master’s. In fact, most companies would pay for your master’s if you already work for them.

 

[LittleEinstein]

Unpopular opinion, but yes you can do med school if you don’t ~love~ patient interaction. I’m an M2, and I actually liked patient interaction until I got to med school. Now, I’m very neutral about it/dislike it in some ways. I realized I don’t like listening to people complain, taking histories, and making small talk all day. I’m now looking into radiology or anesthesia which I have shadowed both and really enjoyed both the limited patient interaction and the specialties themselves. There are also other specialty options with limited patient interaction like pathology.

 

[Metamorphosis.DO]

You sound like you have very impressive potential in whatever you decide to do.

As I read your post, all I could think was, “this is just like what so many pathologists have told me.” In y 3&4 you’ll have to deal with a lot of pt intx. But then you can go into a specialty like pathology.

While I personally thrive off of pt interaction and actually want to do OB/GYN which I chuckled at, I understand your position and think pathology would be a great option to consider. It requires a profound understanding of physiology and disease process (trying to avoid saying that a pathologist must have a strong grasp of pathology 😆) which is certainly intellectually stimulating.

Again, while I wouldn’t like pathology, I do feel that those lectures in medical school are very intellectually stimulating. It’s not problem solving in that you may not actually be the decision maker in management/treatment planning but you still offer a crucial contribution to that process.

And, while you don’t see patients in the traditional sense (only a portion of their bodily tissues/when they are dead/ or anesthetized on the OR table), you DO get PLENTY of interaction with colleagues. Lab techs and other pathologists, consulting physicians, etc. so lots of highly intelectual interactions and nearly no patient interaction.

Oh— and you’ll have a big nice desk that’s all yours.

I’d say radiology is a reasonable choice for similar reasons. Major difference, increasingly radiologists are treating parents far more than they used to. Especially interventional. However, it’s in an inpatient setting. No clinic days where your running room to room with a smile on your face. In fact, a radiologist once did imaging on me with contrast and hardly spoke. Just instructions on what to do. So again— not a bad option.

Rads may also be a good choice because there is more of a “puzzle” in that it often requires clinical context.

GO SHADOW: it’s hands down the best way to see what you like and don’t like.

Money/job security: hands down never going to be a problem.

 

[dnyal]

Maybe I could give you some perspective. I am an extreme introvert. My credentials: my family always thought I was autistic until I had that checked; turns out I had subjected myself to such level of social deprivation that I ended up with some "autistic traits." You can google social deprivation and autism, and you'll see what I mean. Despite that, I went to medical school and practiced family medicine for several years. Now, this was overseas, but it was in a cultural setting where people are way more outgoing than your usual American, you could even say they were even overfamiliar.

Now, I enjoyed seeing my patients. Despite my introversion and how much I abhor small talk, I was able to do it with a few patients. I even liked doing it with some regular patients with whom I established great doctor-patient relationships. The rest of the time, I mostly filled what otherwise would've been awkward silence with medical explanations. My patients loved it. Objectively, I had a 4.5/5 score (my last job required patients to rate you). I found a job where I saw around 15-18 a day and allowed me to spend as much time as I needed with them, as well as being able to take small breaks here and there (I'd just stay in my office with the door closed, browsing Medscape or Imgur). However, before landing that job, I did have to work in places where I'd have to see like 30 patients in 6 hours. It wasn't funny and was taking a toll on me.

In any case, my point is it is doable. I also like the whole science and solving puzzles part of medicine. I like helping people and how gratifying it is, but that's not my main motivation to pursue medicine again here in America. Some might say that is bad, that service attitude and whatnot. I've met people in other medical professions who do an excellent job and absolutely hate it, and others who love their job and are really not good at it. Most other professionals and techs simply didn't care and their job was just their job. I am myself a hater of the "get a job in something you love and you'll never work a day in your life" mentality. 99% of people will certainly end up not liking anything they do if they do it as a job for long. If you like medicine, go for it. You're not crazy if it is something you really like, and the profession offers options for introverts, like clinical pathology and research and such. Look into that!

 

[drbatsandwich]

Definitely not a common situation, but I pursued medical school to be a radiologist. Now in my second year and things are going well. I also love interacting with coworkers and dread patient contact, things I knew before I even started school. Like I said, I’m doing this to be a radiologist (neurorads specifically), not a doctor. There are other specialties to consider as well, namely Pathology. You’ll still get some patient contact with anesthesia but the relationships aren’t longitudinal and note writing BS is minimal.

Obviously limiting yourself to one or two specialties means you might have to work harder to make yourself competitive, but I’ve found that it’s easier if you can go all in on day one. As a rising M2 I’m already involved in research with the radiology department and am president of our rads interest group. Lots of people who pursue rads don’t decide to do it until the last minute after realizing they hate everything in third year, and then have to scramble to build a good application.

 

[Murse2MD]

*Disclaimer: I’m not a doc, just a med student, but I was an ER/Flight nurse for 7 years prior to med school*

I’m gonna split from the popular opinion here: I don’t see anything in your post that would specifically preclude you from being a good doctor. You don’t have to have amazing social skills or be obviously extroverted to be a good doctor. In fact, searching through my memory of all the ICU, ER, IM, and Peds docs I’ve worked with, I’d say I’ve known just as many introverted docs as extroverted. Some specialties really lend themselves toward extroversion (Peds, OB) and some toward introversion (Rads, Path) but as long as you can access some compassion, sincerity and empathy in your interactions with patients and families, you’ll be fine. I myself am VERY introverted. Like social interaction depletes my energy. So, personally, I was WAY more motivated by passion for medical science than I was by the humanitarian aspects of medicine, and I don’t think that makes me any less likely to be a good physician. If anything I kinda view it as a safety net from burnout, because patients and patient interactions will inevitably be disappointing at times, and there will be situations where no matter how hard you try you will not be able to help someone, but physiology/path/pharm will never become uninteresting. That said, I would definitely encourage you to maybe educate yourself a bit more, shadow some physicians, get to know not just what they do but also why they enjoy doing it. My general advice to most people is, if you can be happy doing something other than being a doctor, do it. I couldn’t though, and maybe it’s the same for you.

 

[wook]

My colleagues have made excellent suggestions.

Consider shadowing a forensic pathologist or medical examiner. The patient interactions are very limited, but it is using your knowledge of the human body to better explain the patient's cause of death. The only challenge is that you may be called into court to testify, and for many folks that can be extremely stressful.

Radiology, as already mentioned may be an excellent option as well.

I'll add in this additional thought. Medicine is using information/data that is known and applying it you the person in front of you. A research scientist/PhD looks at new data or interpreting data with a new perspective for folks to utilize or apply later on. Do you want to be in the forefront (ie PhD), or applying the data to what has already been researched (MD).



Wook

 

[never-too-late]

as a medical student, you will spend at least half of your education interacting with patients. For me, the first 2 years were really hard because there was so little of that, and that is what I am looking forward to as a physician. You will be graded on this skill. You will need to do well at it if you’re hoping to get into residency. Yes, pathology might be a good fit for you and it’s not super competitive, but how will you do personally with 2 years of graded patient interaction?


I also have an MS. I like bench science too. I think it’s a great option and really needed to support medical advancements. You don’t need a PhD, but you could certainly get one and get it paid for through research or teaching. Without crushing student loans it is certainly financially rewarding to go this route. You can spend all the time you want solving puzzles and thinking about physiology in this world. You could also pursue an MS or PhD while answering the question of whether or not you should go to medical school. Again, you could likely do so without excess debt, and these degrees would boost your application while giving you a fall-back if you decide against medicine or don’t get in. And they will help you tremendously in medical school! You will have advanced science knowledge in the topics in your research related to the medical school subject matters!

 

[LunaOri]

Isn’t pathology assistant mostly just grossing slides—not too much analyzing?

Pathologist Assistant (NOT lab assistant) is the person who grosses-in all the specimens, whether large or small. Some of the work is repetitive, in that tiny specimens like most GI biopsies look very much alike. Other parts of the work—cutting large specimens (especially cancers) doing autopsies, and performing frozen sections—are more interesting because they require more judgment. A PA needs to like working with their hands, and not mind “gross” things like tumors and gangrene. They also do other tasks like photomicrography, rapid evaluation of certain specimen types, and a whole list of stuff (depending on the job site). Being a PA in a gastroenterologist office could be dead tedium; working at MSKCC or MD Anderson would never be boring.

 

[hopefullydoc117]

Thank you all for the suggestions. Now it's got me wondering, what do introverts do when they enter med school (and how do they handle constant patient interactions)? Obviously just because you are an introvert, doesn't mean you shun small talk like a vampire would sunlight. But I wonder how introvert premeds get excited to do a career of 20+ patients per day, every day, for the rest of their career.

As an introvert finishing up M3, it is draining! Especially for the outpatient-based rotations like FM. A lot of the tiring part is also constantly having to perform for the preceptors. However, I don't mind small talk with patients as much as small talk with random people (like at a med school party) because mostly there is an agenda and a goal. A lot of introverts are also good in small social settings (like 2-3 people) and excellent listeners which help to connect with patients. I want to do inpatient medicine, but can tolerate outpatient enough and find things I enjoy in it. I just need more solo time and time to decompress once the day has ended compared to my extroverted friends in med school.

However, an important distinction is that while I am an introvert and my favorite hobby is snuggling with a book, I do love patient education. I enjoy the science of medicine but love the clinical aspects more than the basic physiology. If you are mostly interested in getting an intellectually stimulating physiology/biology experience, I'd recommend PhD's, or even a master's with a thesis component, as others have mentioned.

 

[FacialNerveFan]

I'm just a med student, not an attending or anything, and def not a expert.
It doesn't sound like you want to be a doctor, but you want a good job, which is completely fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But med school is mentally and emotionally challenging, and I personally don't think I would be able to make it through if I didn't love it. IMO, there are easier ways to have a steady and intellectually stimulating job. Maybe look into MS and PhD programs? If you hate it, you could master out.

 

[deleted1065184]

I'm just a med student, not an attending or anything, and def not a expert.
It doesn't sound like you want to be a doctor, but you want a good job, which is completely fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But med school is mentally and emotionally challenging, and I personally don't think I would be able to make it through if I didn't love it. IMO, there are easier ways to have a steady and intellectually stimulating job. Maybe look into MS and PhD programs? If you hate it, you could master out.

I think this is important and something that some people seem to be missing. OP is in love with the science, but has not listed anything that suggests medicine.

Not a single mention of caring about advancing human health/healing and wanting to contribute to the prevention, treatment, or diagnosis of disease. Pathologists and radiologists are not patient-facing, but virtually every single one I know cares a ton of helping to provide healthcare to other humans...most diagnoses occur due to labs and imaging, so it's totally possible to contribute tremendously to improving human health without regularly seeing patients. But that desire still needs to be there.

OP wants to continue to be involved with really cool science, a good/stable income, and intellectual stimulation. Imo, those are awesome reasons to do a PhD, not an MD.

 

[Pshalt]

The happiest MD's I have known in my 30 year career have been pathologists and radiologists. Most of these are introverts. Some of the best surgeons I know have terrible bedside manner and prefer their patients asleep. All managed to get through their medical school clinical years and internship.

 

[Sajitude]

I think the consensus about not going to med school if you hate patient interaction is an accurate one. I know incredible surgeons who need additional staff to talk to patients because of how bad their bed side manner is, so it is possible to still succeed, but these surgeons are absolutely miserable when they have to deal with patients. A lot of what they do is dealing with patients. If you get a PhD in pharm and work for a monster pharm company then you can generate as much income as a physician and you just have to talk with peers and staff.

 

[Murse2MD]

I think this is important and something that some people seem to be missing. OP is in love with the science, but has not listed anything that suggests medicine.

Not a single mention of caring about advancing human health/healing and wanting to contribute to the prevention, treatment, or diagnosis of disease. Pathologists and radiologists are not patient-facing, but virtually every single one I know cares a ton of helping to provide healthcare to other humans...most diagnoses occur due to labs and imaging, so it's totally possible to contribute tremendously to improving human health without regularly seeing patients. But that desire still needs to be there.

OP wants to continue to be involved with really cool science, a good/stable income, and intellectual stimulation. Imo, those are awesome reasons to do a PhD, not an MD.

Ok but to be fair I was in love with the science too. And it was specifically the multidisciplinary model of science that’s present in medicine. Tox/pharm/physio/path, that combination of topics is what appealed to me. The ability to make a difference in others lives and the intimacy of the trust between a patient and their physician were kind of secondary things to me. And OP did at least express some amount of interest in that. I agree that you have to be interested in both things, but maybe not in the order that everyone usually prescribes…