DOs and MDs in the same family

[Beth_W737]

Actually not entirely true, DOs can and do most specialties, there are some where there are just so few spots but specializing generally isn't difficult as a DO unless you want to go to Harvard or top tier. And I expect specializing to get a little easier with the merger. Derm is extremely difficult to match period, yes your chances are negligible with a DO but most MDs don't have a great shot either. Aside from premeds and SDN, in real life I've never been given a hard time because I'm a DO.

You have to keep in mind that he's in derm of all things. He's looking at this from the perspective of a guy who wanted to match an ultra-competitive specialty and likely would have been unable to do so had he gone to a DO school. Any advocate of the specialties is going to say don't go DO. And they'll be right, because you're closing hundreds of doors. But in practice it will generally not matter if you are a DO or MD, aside from a few hospitals.

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[costales]

This isn't 10,000bc and u are not dependent on ur tribe for survival. So stop caring what anyone else thinks. It's hard but it's also rational.

OP must not dishonor his family. Incidentally, a more prestigious degree gives you a larger dowry:
http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20111125211736183

 

[Mad Jack]

Actually not entirely true, DOs can and do most specialties, there are some where there are just so few spots but specializing generally isn't difficult as a DO unless you want to go to Harvard or top tier. And I expect specializing to get a little easier with the merger. Derm is extremely difficult to match period, yes your chances are negligible with a DO but most MDs don't have a great shot either. Aside from premeds and SDN, in real life I've never been given a hard time because I'm a DO.

I used to work at a top-tier research institution. They have a mere two DO attendings out of the ridiculous number of physicians they employ. Both told me they were given quite a hard time during the hiring process and that they had to basically fight to prove they were Prestigious Medical Center caliber because of their credentials. Both eventually overcame those barriers and are now viewed as equals, but it was not an easy ride. So try getting an academic placement at one of the big academic research centers if you want to feel some discrimination.

And DOs can go into derm, sure, but the kind of person that matched ACGME derm is generally the kind of person that would view AOA derm as second rate programs. Also factor in that DV has a pretty well known loathing for a great many of the non-lifestyle specialties. So for a guy like him, MD is the way to go if you want a "good" (ACGME) residency in a lifestyle or high paying specialty (optho, derm, urology, plastics, etc).

DOs can do most specialties, but if you want the good ACGME residencies, your chances are much higher as an MD. And who even knows what will happen to the AOA residencies in desirable specialties with the merger- many are likely going to be able to meet ACGME standards, so it's kind of a crapshoot as to what will happen to them down the pipe.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

.

 

[HooliganSnail]

Ok, fine. Don't look at the facts on the ground. Continue to tell future applicants that it doesn't matter with respect to MD or DO when it comes to residency applications. Then when they come back to tell you that you were wrong - you can have them join the "D.O. discrimination" banner. I'm sure that will help things.
Congrats.

I love being a DO. I think it adds a certain flare to my medical practice.

My fellow colleagues are exceptional individuals who have amazing credentials. In my personal experience, the intelligence and quality of character between MD and DO is identical ( or at least statistically insignificant)

However, I have to agree that when it comes to opportunity in the residency match, you are at a considerable disadvantage coming from the DO side. I got the program I wanted, but I know many of my classmates did not.

 

[DermViser]

I used to work at a top-tier research institution. They have a mere two DO attendings out of the ridiculous number of physicians they employ. Both told me they were given quite a hard time during the hiring process and that they had to basically fight to prove they were Prestigious Medical Center caliber because of their credentials. Both eventually overcame those barriers and are now viewed as equals, but it was not an easy ride. So try getting an academic placement at one of the big academic research centers if you want to feel some discrimination.

And DOs can go into derm, sure, but the kind of person that matched ACGME derm is generally the kind of person that would view AOA derm as second rate programs. Also factor in that DV has a pretty well known loathing for a great many of the non-lifestyle specialties. So for a guy like him, MD is the way to go if you want a "good" (ACGME) residency in a lifestyle or high paying specialty (optho, derm, urology, plastics, etc).

Wrong. I don't loathe non-lifestyle specialties. I hate the more abusive to resident specialties (i.e. Gen Surgery, OB-Gyn, etc.)

If you look at AOA Derm programs they are literally in private practice offices. They are missing a lot in the Derm curriculum and exposure that you get at an academic medical center. That's why they're looked down upon.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Wrong. I don't loathe non-lifestyle specialties. I hate the more abusive to resident specialties (i.e. Gen Surgery, OB-Gyn, etc.)

If you look at AOA Derm programs they are literally in private practice offices. They are missing a lot in the Derm curriculum and exposure that you get at an academic medical center. That's why they're looked down upon.

I gotta agree with you on that one. They are basically glorified shadowing.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I gotta agree with you on that one. They are basically glorified shadowing.

Remind us again how many days you have been in medical school before you continue to talk out of your ass

I mean, i am sure you have tons of experience on the difference in quality between acgme and aoa dermatology programs since you graduated college....but just humor me

 

[inmyslumber]

OP,

Contact the MD schools at which you are wait-listed now to see where you stand on the wait list and your chances of being admitted.

Once you are a DO (or MD), you will be committed to that degree. So, it might be better to reapply next year

I know you are happy for your brother. However, I think, in your heart, you would rather be an MD so go for it!

I am an Attending now but I waited to strengthen my application when I was applying to schools so that I could be an MD vs a DO. Did it make a difference in my career? I would say, definitely YES...and for the better.

-Inmyslumber

 

[Mad Jack]

Remind us again how many days you have been in medical school before you continue to talk out of your ass

I mean, i am sure you have tons of experience on the difference in quality between acgme and aoa dermatology programs since you graduated college....but just humor me

CrisG, you've gotten more noticeably bitter and irritable by the month. I mean, you do have a point, but damn, you didn't used to deal in snark like this. What happened man?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Remind us again how many days you have been in medical school before you continue to talk out of your ass

I mean, i am sure you have tons of experience on the difference in quality between acgme and aoa dermatology programs since you graduated college....but just humor me

And you have done how many dermatology clerkships?

If you disagree with my comment, tell us why it is "wrong." Lets see how DV responds to what you have to say.

 

[Mad Jack]

Wrong. I don't loathe non-lifestyle specialties. I hate the more abusive to resident specialties (i.e. Gen Surgery, OB-Gyn, etc.)

If you look at AOA Derm programs they are literally in private practice offices. They are missing a lot in the Derm curriculum and exposure that you get at an academic medical center. That's why they're looked down upon.

And IM and FM. You've actually outright stated something to the effect of basically any specialty that deals with acutely ill inpatients as sucking in the past when talking about rads and why it's a decent specialty to choose.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

And you have done how many dermatology clerkships?

If you disagree with my comment, tell us why it is "wrong." Lets see how DV responds to what you have to say.

Sorry son but you dont get to spin this. You continuously talk out of your ass about things you have NO experience in. You need to delete your account and shut your damn mouth.


Please enlighten us as to your experiences with the difference in acgme and aoa derm programs

 

[Mass Effect]

It's a shame residency directors won't take all those things into consideration when reviewing your file.

Many of them do. DOs have matched into an ACGME residency in every field of medicine, even the ultra-competitive ones, like derm and plastics.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Sorry son but you dont get to spin this. You continuously talk out of your ass about things you have NO experience in. You need to delete your account and shut your damn mouth.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You haven't done jack.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Yeah, that's what I thought. You haven't done jack.

I also dont post about them as if i have.


Please....let us know how far you have dove into acgme vs aoa derm programs.


....or you can just admit that you are talking about something you know nothing about...again

 

[costales]

Hmm. This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[SLC]

I also dont post about them as if i have.


Please....let us know how far you have dove into acgme vs aoa derm programs.


....or you can just admit that you are talking about something you know nothing about...again

His comment was spot on. Spoken as an OMS-IV since that seems to be your metric for credibility.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

It seems like a big deal now, but I don't think you'll even remember this thread years from now.

The bigger things, a fulfilling career, having good people in your life, and your overall happiness are still things you can work towards whether you're an MD or a DO. So, I say take the degree and work as hard as you can to achieve the things that will make you happy. You get to that point in your life, you probably won't even give those initials a second thought.

Of course there's a stigma with the DO degree, and it has some drawbacks, but in the grand scheme of things, it's really just a letter difference.

Just my personal thoughts on it.

 

[username456789]

Remind us again how many days you have been in medical school before you continue to talk out of your ass

I mean, i am sure you have tons of experience on the difference in quality between acgme and aoa dermatology programs since you graduated college....but just humor me

Regardless of where he is in his education, he (and DV) is/are correct. The AOA derm slots are usually shadowing/doing gruntwork for private practice offices. Under the auspices of the ACGME, I expect many to collapse.

 

[SLC]

Regardless of where he is in his education, he (and DV) is/are correct. The AOA derm slots are usually shadowing/doing gruntwork for private practice offices. Under the auspices of the ACGME, I expect many to collapse.

Add to that, the fact that many apparently don't pay, or even require tuition.

AOA Derm is a total joke.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I also dont post about them as if i have.

Please....let us know how far you have dove into acgme vs aoa derm programs.

....or you can just admit that you are talking about something you know nothing about...again

Whoa, dude. How do journalists, college advisors, etc. get information? It's as if you can gain information without having to experience things first hand. We can call this revolutionary idea "researching." It's not as if there was an entire forum about dermatology here, Google at my fingertips or experts to talk to. No way. Next you'll say that the earth isn't flat. You cray cray.

 

[hallowmann]

@Sam212 caucasian my friend

and for everyone else, I would appreciate serious replies only

OP, get used to someone looking down at you for any decision or accomplishment you ever make/achieve (whether you're a DO or not). Oh, and get used to being compared to people who are better than you (there will always be someone). That's life. Learn to view your accomplishments based on what you want for yourself, not on how others view you. Your life will be happier. You can never please everyone.

 

[KanyeWes]

Don't listen to ChrisGeffen. He insists on being negative on every issue. As a DO you will opportunities that 99% of the population can only dream of. So what if some 70 year old internist or some 27 year old gunner at an academic center 'looks down on you.' You get to use you education to make people's lives better. You get respect from any decent person. You get a solid income and job security. Most people would be envious.

you are being naïve if that is all you think is biased against do's.

I know some do's who do gen surg, and they get a lotta s*** from colleagues, patients, and etc because people consider them second rate, esp if you do an aoa residency instead of acgme.

patients do research, esp when it is life or death matters.

 

[NurWollen]

you are being naïve if that is all you think is biased against do's.

I know some do's who do gen surg, and they get a lotta s*** from colleagues, patients, and etc because people consider them second rate, esp if you do an aoa residency instead of acgme.

I also know some DO's who do gen surg, and they have never gotten a negative word about being a DO.

Hey look I can play the third party anecdote game too.

 

[KanyeWes]

I also know some DO's who do gen surg, and they have never gotten a negative word about being a DO.

Hey look I can play the third party anecdote game too.

other people use anecdotes, and it is ok. But when I do, it is worst than sin.

the bias is real. there are people, including patients, who know about it.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

Seriously, MDs are awesome, and DOs are awesome. They all get to be physicians.

OP, if you get off the WL, go MD. If not, go DO. You'll be a doctor! You will meet people who will look down on you no matter what path you choose. The key is to not base your self-worth on the opinions of people.

 

[costales]

They sure don't make genius trolls like they used to.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Hey... I am at a MD school now and some of my classmates are already looking down on me because they heard I that I am interested in psychiatry... I already heard all kind of stuff in the 3 weeks I have been in med school... stuff like: why would you want to be a psychiatry? at least you won't have to study hard for step 1... Some of these kids think they gonna be the next mother Teresa or father Tereso when you hear them talking... They think that they are the best things that ever happened to this world...

 

[jakeislove]

Eh, go to school and be a doctor. Learn OMT really well. When your family has back pain, use your techniques to make them feel better.


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I only know one DO who uses manipulative techniques as an adjunct to regular practice.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

Most DOs don't use it, but then there are people out there who do well enough to have OMT-only practices. Shrugs. I think the manipulations would be cool things to show off to one's family.


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[jakeislove]

Most DOs don't use it, but then there are people out there who do well enough to have OMT-only practices. Shrugs. I think the manipulations would be cool things to show off to one's family.


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It's just kind of odd that I rarely meet DO's practicing an aspect of the profession that distinguishes them from MDs.

I'd be more inclined to visit a chiropractor if a cervical adjustment were needed. No offense but I'd rather have it performed by someone who does it on a daily basis.

 

[DocVapor]

It's just kind of odd that I rarely meet DO's practicing an aspect of the profession that distinguishes them from MDs.

I'd be more inclined to visit a chiropractor if a cervical adjustment were needed. No offense but I'd rather have it performed by someone who does it on a daily basis.

Find a DO that is in Sports Medicine, PM&R, or an OMM specialist. They do perform manipulations on a daily basis. Even plenty of FM DO's can be very proficient at it as well.

Also, this doesn't really matter except for my own interest, but are you an MD student?

 

[Mad Jack]

other people use anecdotes, and it is ok. But when I do, it is worst than sin.

the bias is real. there are people, including patients, who know about it.

There's plenty of patients to go around. If they don't want my help because of the initials after my name, fine by me.

 

[Mad Jack]

why would you want to be a psychiatry?

If someone tells me they want to be a psychiatry, I'm going to go right ahead and assume they're tripping balls.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

If someone tells me they want to be a psychiatry, I'm going to go right ahead and assume they're tripping balls.

I think you are probably a non trad just like me and I am not sure if you already started med school, but if you listen to the conversation of some of these students, you can't help but all the time.... I don't fault them to be honest because a lot of them are from upper middle class and rich families whose parents have kept them under their wings until they make it to med school...

 

[Mad Jack]

I think you are probably a non trad just like me and I am not sure if you already started med school, but if you listen to the conversation of some of these students, you can't help but all the time.... I don't fault them to be honest because a lot of them are from upper middle class and rich families whose parents have kept them under their wings until they make it to med school...

Omfg it's going to be undergrad all over again (I was a nontrad there too). I don't start for three more weeks, but I already know that I'm going to be doing a lot of these:

I think it's best I just keep my mouth shut and pretend to know nothing. Yeah kid, you'll totally get a low liability elective part time trauma practice in NYC. And psych, a total joke of a specialty, what with their 35 hour work weeks and 200k a year. EM is definitely a lifestyle specialty you'll never have to work a night, weekend, or holiday in your life and the patients are all so grateful that you're saving them! etc etc.

 

[group_theory]

Closing