MD Double Standards In Mental Health Issues

[Tsunnami]

Hello, Everyone !

I've observed that there are many topics here about mental health problems, which is not surprising, because at our Medical school there are also many problems in this area.
I've seen many students getting addicted to pills and other substances to keep them calm and to avoid implosion, and in worst cases this is not even enough and the inevitable thing happens.
Now I've observed here that many users' advice is to seek professional help and go see a therapist - this is very ironical, because at the same time there is much skepticism and fun made of psych doctors ( on this forum also and generally as well ).

How could people even consider getting professional help if they see this double standard ?
I know from experience with the students from my Medical school that maybe 1-5% will seek professional help, the rest won't ever do it.
Also, the more you push it, the less you are going to convince them.
So even though I see the good intentions behind it, but I consider this to be one of the most ineffective ways to try helping people.

Let me know what you think. I will later write my opinion on what I think would be better strategies to approach this.

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[trs88]

Can you link the posts or threads where this forum was disrespectful to those in the psych field? I tried a quick search but I didn't get anything that jumped out at me.

 

[Kurk]

What is the question?

 

[takeurmeds02]

Meh, I don't know that psych is strongly criticized on this site the way you're describing.

I think psych has just turned into that ugly duckling that you always pick on but when the going gets tough, you still understand their value. I'm sure a better analogy could have been employed but the point is that, all jokes aside, we still understand the necessity and value of the expertise and resource.

 

[Kurk]

My reasonings for having a lower opinion on pysch is that it's one of the most subjective fields out there even out of medicine. The type of people who go into pysch are by nature incredibly extroverted due to having so many emotionally deep discussions with patients. If there are so many of a type of personality in a field it gets dangerous as introverts start to fall under the scope of "personality disorders" and what not. It's mob rule in a way

 

[hamstergang]

How could people even consider getting professional help if they see this double standard ?

What's the double standard that you're pointing out?

The type of people who go into pysch are by nature incredibly extroverted due to having so many emotionally deep discussions with patients. If there are so many of a type of personality in a field it gets dangerous as introverts start to fall under the scope of "personality disorders" and what not. It's mob rule in a way

I'm a psychiatrist, and I'm one of the most introverted people I know. I don't see this calling introversion a personality disorder as you say.

 

[Kurk]

What's the double standard that you're pointing out?


I'm a psychiatrist, and I'm one of the most introverted people I know. I don't see this calling introversion a personality disorder as you say.

I'm curious as to how you have the energy to do what you do day-to-day as an introvert.

 

[deleted407021]

My reasonings for having a lower opinion on pysch is that it's one of the most subjective fields out there even out of medicine. The type of people who go into pysch are by nature incredibly extroverted due to having so many emotionally deep discussions with patients. If there are so many of a type of personality in a field it gets dangerous as introverts start to fall under the scope of "personality disorders" and what not. It's mob rule in a way

Aren't you in HS or early UG? What qualifies you to make these statements? Many psychiatrists whose thoughts I've read would very much disagree with all of that -- it's actually considered a field that attracts introverts.

 

[Donald Juan]

I'm curious as to how you have the energy to do what you do day-to-day as an introvert.

I don't know what your definition of introvert is. Do you think only extroverts can be doctors, as almost all fields require meeting and talking to new patients on a regular basis?

 

[Kurk]

Aren't you in HS or early UG? What qualifies you to make these statements? Many psychiatrists whose thoughts I've read would very much disagree with all of that -- it's actually considered a field that attracts introverts.

It's just my opinion which can change; nothing qualifies me. I just don't understand how this would be an introvert field when compared to something like radiology or pathology. Unlike those two, Psychiatry requires you to have deep conversations (now I could be at fault here for assuming a good part of what psychologists do is also applicable to their MD superiors) with patients a good chunk of the time.

I don't know what your definition of introvert is. Do you think only extroverts can be doctors, as almost all fields require meeting and talking to new patients on a regular basis?

I'm going off Brigg-Myers test. My definition is that introverts can communicate as well as extroverts but it requires more energy from them and time to "recharge". Introverts prefer solitary work over social work I'd think.

 

[Donald Juan]

It's just my opinion which can change; nothing qualifies me. I just don't understand how this would be an introvert field when compared to something like radiology or pathology. Unlike those two, Psychiatry requires you to have deep conversations (now I could be at fault here for assuming a good part of what psychologists do is also applicable to their MD superiors) with patients a good chunk of the time.

I'm going off Brigg-Myers test. My definition is that introverts can communicate as well as extroverts but it requires more energy from them and time to "recharge". Introverts prefer solitary work over social work I'd think.

Introverted people can often be well suited for one-on-one interactions. Talking to a pt is not like mingling at a party with hundreds of people.

 

[deleted407021]

It's just my opinion which can change; nothing qualifies me. I just don't understand how this would be an introvert field when compared to something like radiology or pathology. Unlike those two, Psychiatry requires you to have deep conversations (now I could be at fault here for assuming a good part of what psychologists do is also applicable to their MD superiors) with patients a good chunk of the time.

Read some of what many psychiatrists have written online about their work, in articles and of course here, so you can have an informed opinion

 

[xffan624]

It's just my opinion which can change; nothing qualifies me. I just don't understand how this would be an introvert field when compared to something like radiology or pathology. Unlike those two, Psychiatry requires you to have deep conversations (now I could be at fault here for assuming a good part of what psychologists do is also applicable to their MD superiors) with patients a good chunk of the time.

I'm going off Brigg-Myers test. My definition is that introverts can communicate as well as extroverts but it requires more energy from them and time to "recharge". Introverts prefer solitary work over social work I'd think.

You would probably be better expressing things in certainty that you actually have experience about rather than just an opinion about. If you had experience, you would realize that there are introverts in almost every field of medicine and they function just fine.

 

[Kurk]

Introverted people can often be well suited for one-on-one interactions. Talking to a pt is not like mingling at a party with hundreds of people.

So would it be more accurate to say introverts value quality one-on-one interactions more than superfluous talk with groups of people?

 

[clausewitz2]

So would it be more accurate to say introverts value quality one-on-one interactions more than superfluous talk with groups of people?

A lot of introverts also like social situations in which there are clearly defined roles and something approaching a script. Unbounded interaction with a room full of people is another story.

 

[sliceofbread136]

My reasonings for having a lower opinion on pysch is that it's one of the most subjective fields out there even out of medicine. The type of people who go into pysch are by nature incredibly extroverted due to having so many emotionally deep discussions with patients. If there are so many of a type of personality in a field it gets dangerous as introverts start to fall under the scope of "personality disorders" and what not. It's mob rule in a way

You have some odd opinions kurk

 

[IslandStyle808]

So would it be more accurate to say introverts value quality one-on-one interactions more than superfluous talk with groups of people?

For introverts, they like to know where the boundaries of talk go. If an introvert talks with a group of friends, its easy because you already know what is okay and what is not. However, if you are in a room with strangers, you are trying to feel the room out. So the talk will be superficial initially and you will be more quiet than usual. It takes time to understand where to draw the line with people. Once this line is figured out, then you start to feel more relaxed with your conversations (no different from an extrovert).

 

[sloop]

My reasonings for having a lower opinion on pysch is that it's one of the most subjective fields out there even out of medicine. The type of people who go into pysch are by nature incredibly extroverted due to having so many emotionally deep discussions with patients. If there are so many of a type of personality in a field it gets dangerous as introverts start to fall under the scope of "personality disorders" and what not. It's mob rule in a way

Literally none of this is true about psychiatry.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Hello, Everyone !

I've observed that there are many topics here about mental health problems, which is not surprising, because at our Medical school there are also many problems in this area.
I've seen many students getting addicted to pills and other substances to keep them calm and to avoid implosion, and in worst cases this is not even enough and the inevitable thing happens.
Now I've observed here that many users' advice is to seek professional help and go see a therapist - this is very ironical, because at the same time there is much skepticism and fun made of psych doctors ( on this forum also and generally as well ).

How could people even consider getting professional help if they see this double standard ?
I know from experience with the students from my Medical school that maybe 1-5% will seek professional help, the rest won't ever do it.
Also, the more you push it, the less you are going to convince them.
So even though I see the good intentions behind it, but I consider this to be one of the most ineffective ways to try helping people.

Let me know what you think. I will later write my opinion on what I think would be better strategies to approach this.

Don't completely understand your question but I'll try to decipher some of it.

1) I thought psych was disparaged against in healthcare until I finished third year of Med school. Most docs who know what they're doing know every specialty is important. Haven't really felt any disparaging towards psych from individuals docs. Now social stigma exists so telling my friends parents I'm thinking psych is sometimes another story, but I didn't go to med school to please some random suburbanites.

2) You seem to be describing one small aspect of psych. There are a lot of types of psych illnesses that extend beyond the depressed med student and a lot of people that do actively seek out good psych care. I've seen patients cry because their psychiatrist will be missing one visit because he/she is out of town. You're over generalizing by saying "everybody who is referred to psych just fights it." That's far too general a statement and sentiment. I've seen patients that refuse colonoscopies - does that mean offering them and providing counseling is a broken system? No. How about the numerous hypertensive patients that don't take their meds despite constant pleading by basically every facet of the healthcare system, does it mean the entire field of primary care is broken? No. At the end of the day people have autonomy and some people just haven't been reached yet, but this is true of every specialty and just suggest there are things to work on.

3) That last point, that there are things to work on, is exactly why somebody might go into psychiatry. It's exciting - new imaging modalities to view the brain, new treatments, new public health initiatives for mental health, a fight against stigma. Just because there are challenges in the field, and I don't disagree with you that there are, doesn't mean the field should be avoided. No, it means we need the very best and brightest to participate. Any solutions that are found (for patients or the mental health system itself) will likely combine current practices with novel interventions.

 

[grapefruit17]

I haven't really seen any negative remarks about the field of psychiatry on here. What is there to argue or be negative about? Clinical studies show antidepressants work, as well as psychotherapy. A good portion of the country has some type of psych disorder, and medication management can improve most of their lives. These disorders do exist, it isn't subjective to say that the guy running down the street in a bathrobe probably has some underlying psychotic/bipolar disorder, once medical causes have been ruled out. There is a reason this field is so high in demand.

Kurk, i don't even think you know what a psychiatrist does. A lot of psychiatry is medication management.

Also the whole introvert vs extrovert thing is way overblown. Most people probably fall somewhere in the middle and arent on one end of the spectrum.

 

[hamstergang]

I'm going off Brigg-Myers test.

It seems enough people have addressed some of your points already, but I wanted to add that the Myers Brigg personality teat is really no better than a horoscope. It's not a test that psychologists consider valid even if it can be fun to play with.

 

[deleted407021]

I haven't really seen any negative remarks about the field of psychiatry on here. What is there to argue or be negative about?

Oh it happens, but it's mostly UG kids who've taken one bio class and think it's edgy to talk about how psych isn't a "hard science".

 

[Kurk]

It seems enough people have addressed some of your points already, but I wanted to add that the Myers Brigg personality teat is really no better than a horoscope. It's not a test that psychologists consider valid even if it can be fun to play with.

What do you recommend?

 

[hamstergang]

What do you recommend?

For what purpose?

 

[Kurk]

For what purpose?

A more accurate personality test? Or do I have to shell out the money to see a psychologist?

 

[SunsFun]

What about just not getting a personality test? Why do you need one?

Maybe he is like me. I can't seem to decide if am borderline or a narcissist.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[sgv]

My reasonings for having a lower opinion on pysch is that it's one of the most subjective fields out there even out of medicine. The type of people who go into pysch are by nature incredibly extroverted due to having so many emotionally deep discussions with patients. If there are so many of a type of personality in a field it gets dangerous as introverts start to fall under the scope of "personality disorders" and what not. It's mob rule in a way

You've obviously never met a psychiatrist. I know you're an incoming freshman in college so I highly recommend you take an introductory course on logic. This isn't high school where you can pass off verbal diarrhea and no one bats an eye. Words actually have meaning and you should know their meaning before spewing off unfounded information. Introversion is not a DSM classified personality disorder. Non sequitur (logic) - Wikipedia

When people here take a s**t on psychology which is a soft social science, you do realize we're often not referring to psychiatry, a specialty of medicine, right?

 

[sgv]

You have some odd opinions kurk

That's because kurk is in high school. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

 

[deleted480308]

What do you recommend?

Start freshmen year, meet some people, learn some things, interact with more professionals before typecasting them

 

[Kurk]

Introversion is not a DSM classified personality disorder.

I think of schiznoid personality disorder. To a simple-minded ignoramus like myself who can only see things in black and white, I might associate that with an attack on introversion, but then I would be contradicted with narcissistic personality disorder which is an extreme form of extroversion. Oh well....I'll be taking a pysch course eventually.

 

[xffan624]

I think of schiznoid personality disorder. To a simple-minded ignoramus like myself who can only see things in black and white, I might associate that with an attack on introversion, but then I would be contradicted with narcissistic personality disorder which is an extreme form of extroversion. Oh well....I'll be taking a pysch course eventually.

 

[Stagg737]

My reasonings for having a lower opinion on pysch is that it's one of the most subjective fields out there even out of medicine. The type of people who go into pysch are by nature incredibly extroverted due to having so many emotionally deep discussions with patients. If there are so many of a type of personality in a field it gets dangerous as introverts start to fall under the scope of "personality disorders" and what not. It's mob rule in a way

Psych is far less subjective than people make it out to be. I think the reason many people think it's subjective is because it relies heavily on patient history which isn't as cut and dry as a CBC or X-ray. Without a decent history trying to diagnose a psych condition would be like telling a heme/onc doc to diagnose cancer without CBCs or imaging.

I also completely disagree with your assumption that psychiatrists are extroverts like many of the other members. Most of the psychiatrists/residents I've met are either in the middle of that spectrum or fall slightly on the introvert side.

It's just my opinion which can change; nothing qualifies me. I just don't understand how this would be an introvert field when compared to something like radiology or pathology. Unlike those two, Psychiatry requires you to have deep conversations (now I could be at fault here for assuming a good part of what psychologists do is also applicable to their MD superiors) with patients a good chunk of the time.

The bolded is a completely false assumption. Yes, there is some overlap, but many of the psychologists I've worked with have job responsibilities more inline with a social worker than with a psychiatrist. Most of the psychiatrists I've met/worked with do not do any kind of "talk" therapy with their patients and work almost exclusively on the medical management aspect of their treatment.

 

[clausewitz2]

I think of schiznoid personality disorder. To a simple-minded ignoramus like myself who can only see things in black and white, I might associate that with an attack on introversion, but then I would be contradicted with narcissistic personality disorder which is an extreme form of extroversion. Oh well....I'll be taking a pysch course eventually.

I'm gonna stop you right there. The DSM is really bothering meant to be a quiz you take which spits out a disorder. Those criteria for various disorders are really more a means for people with mental health experience to make sure they are talking about the same kind of presentation when they are caring for patients or conducting research. Checking boxes in a DSM description is not how proper psychiatric diagnosis is done. The gold standard is actually a Structured Clinical Interview, which is very formalized, very long, and only really used for research.

Still, even if we are not being as rigorous as humanly possible, psychiatric interviewing and diagnosis takes rather a lot of training and experience to do well. Hint: you cannot do it to yourself.

 

[sloop]

I think of schiznoid personality disorder. To a simple-minded ignoramus like myself who can only see things in black and white, I might associate that with an attack on introversion, but then I would be contradicted with narcissistic personality disorder which is an extreme form of extroversion. Oh well....I'll be taking a pysch course eventually.

There are many problems with this hypothesis that introversion is considered tantamount to a personality disorder within psychiatry.

First, schizoid people are not simply extreme introverts. They are recluses who spend nearly all of their time on their own and—importantly—have no desire for interpersonal interaction. The vast majority of introverted people do need and want interpersonal interaction. It's simply that they tend to like it on more controllable terms and sometimes in lower doses. Further, the other important distinction regarding personality disorders is that they cause distress or impairment of function. If someone is "introverted" as you say to a degree that they are incapable of holding a job, having meaningful relationships, or generally functioning in society, then yes they may indeed have some sort of psychiatric disorder (though, to be frank, I think such a person is more likely to have an anxiety or depressive disorder than schizoid personality disorder). Psychiatry is in conflict with such things that cause personal and occupational impairment, not with introverts.

Second, narcissistic personality disorder is not extreme extroversion. Many are extroverted, but it is by no means required. In any case, my experience has been that cluster B traits, except in highly functional cases, tend to be very socially problematic. Whether they'd like to be social or not, a lot of these people are bound to be ineffectual in these sorts of pursuits.

Third, many psychiatrists are not extroverted. Psychiatry involves a lot of thoughtful listening and making objective judgments about people. I don't mean that psychiatrists are judging people's character, but they definitely do have to listen to a narrative from the patient's perspective (i.e. what the patient thinks they are doing or what the patient thinks is going in), try to correlate that with outwardly observable behavior and understand objectively what is going wrong in the patient's mental life. This is a task to which many introverts find themselves well-suited, just as extroverts often find themselves drawn to the communicative aspects of psychiatric work. It's a varied field with respect to the personality of practitioners and your attempt to describe psychiatrists monolithically betrays your ignorance.

 

[tantacles]

I think of schiznoid personality disorder. To a simple-minded ignoramus like myself who can only see things in black and white, I might associate that with an attack on introversion, but then I would be contradicted with narcissistic personality disorder which is an extreme form of extroversion. Oh well....I'll be taking a pysch course eventually.

My suggestion is that before forming opinions about medical specialties, you get a significant amount of exposure to the actual medical specialty so that your entire view is not speculation.

 

[Tsunnami]

Can you link the posts or threads where this forum was disrespectful to those in the psych field? I tried a quick search but I didn't get anything that jumped out at me.

Quick searching doesn't quite work, because there were not precisely psych-related topics where I read about such opinions, but random topics that referred to psych also. And this is not even the main point, really. The main point is that there is a general stigma related to the psych field and yes, if you spend enough time observing what people say, you'll realize that there are many, even long-time doctors, who have a PR version about psych ( such as " Yes, of course it's an important specialty and people should definitely take into consideration therapy " ) , and they also have a NOT-PR version of it ( which is : " Psych might be great for other people, but I won't consider it ever. " )

You can also look up the researches that show that doctors are the least likely to consider therapy when things go wrong. They turn much faster to pills, alcohol or other things to take off the edge than to go see a therapist.
One's got to be delusional to deny this ( or live in a place where things are really different, but it's certainly not the case for most part of America and the most part of Europe ).

This being said, I know exactly how valuable the Psych field is and it's exactly because of this that I observe how people truly feel about it ( not how they fake that they feel about it ) , and I simply see that the advice that points toward the importance of professional help is ineffective in most cases, because just by saying that " You need to seek professional help " won't mean anything to a person, it often times even causes people to completely ignore not just the advice, but the whole problem that they might have, because they don't want to consider the idea of getting professional help without actually having a positive opinion about it.
It's also one of those things that the more you push it, the harder it is to convince someone about it.
People have to think differently about Psych before they consider integrating it in their lives.
No matter how distressful a situation is for a person, if he has a negative opinion about Psych, he won't give it a try EVER.

 

[Stagg737]

Quick searching doesn't quite work, because there were not precisely psych-related topics where I read about such opinions, but random topics that referred to psych also. And this is not even the main point, really. The main point is that there is a general stigma related to the psych field and yes, if you spend enough time observing what people say, you'll realize that there are many, even long-time doctors, who have a PR version about psych ( such as " Yes, of course it's an important specialty and people should definitely take into consideration therapy " ) , and they also have a NOT-PR version of it ( which is : " Psych might be great for other people, but I won't consider it ever. " )

You can also look up the researches that show that doctors are the least likely to consider therapy when things go wrong. They turn much faster to pills, alcohol or other things to take off the edge than to go see a therapist.
One's got to be delusional to deny this ( or live in a place where things are really different, but it's certainly not the case for most part of America and the most part of Europe ).

This being said, I know exactly how valuable the Psych field is and it's exactly because of this that I observe how people truly feel about it ( not how they fake that they feel about it ) , and I simply see that the advice that points toward the importance of professional help is ineffective in most cases, because just by saying that " You need to seek professional help " won't mean anything to a person, it often times even causes people to completely ignore not just the advice, but the whole problem that they might have, because they don't want to consider the idea of getting professional help without actually having a positive opinion about it.
It's also one of those things that the more you push it, the harder it is to convince someone about it.
People have to think differently about Psych before they consider integrating it in their lives.
No matter how distressful a situation is for a person, if he has a negative opinion about Psych, he won't give it a try EVER.

The "psych might be great for other people, but I won't consider it ever" can be said about any field of medicine. For me that field is neuro/onc. I know people who would never consider surgery or EM or (insert field here). If you're talking about the treatment aspect, the same thing could be said. My dad has several problems with his back, but he's explicitly stated and has a legal document stating he is never to have any kind of back surgery or any other major surgery. He doesn't want it. There are people who won't take a prescription med, who won't have imaging done, who won't receive transfusions. I know a lot of people who literally refuse to seen any kind of physician unless they think they're dying. The list goes on and is far from limited to psych.

As for doctors not turning to therapists, that's another thing that can be said about almost every field of medicine. Physicians are less likely to get annual physicals, go in for surgical consults, take medications for just about anything etc. It's not a double standard unique to psych, it's a double standard in all of medicine. Hell, I met a physician who knew they had cancer and didn't seek treatment for it because "they were too busy" and "their patients needed them more".

Your last bolded statement is also exaggerated and extremely overdramatic. While I agree that there needs to be a shift in the attitudes about mental health, from what I've seen it's already starting to happen. And just because someone has a negative opinion about something doesn't mean they'll never try it. I saw plenty of patients on rotations who said they really didn't want to take meds, but they were either tired of feeling the way they did or didn't know how they could keep going without help.

Your views seem to be very black and white on the subject, like everyone's thoughts are either they're all in for treatment or they "won't give it a try EVER". Idk how far into training you are, but that is very, very far from the case with most of the psych patients I've seen and talked to or just the people in general who I've talked to. Plus you're missing the entire involuntary side of psychiatry. A person's opinions on taking meds/receiving treatment don't really matter if they're actively suicidal or in a state of severe mania or psychosis...

 

[laxbrah20]

Quick searching doesn't quite work, because there were not precisely psych-related topics where I read about such opinions, but random topics that referred to psych also. And this is not even the main point, really. The main point is that there is a general stigma related to the psych field and yes, if you spend enough time observing what people say, you'll realize that there are many, even long-time doctors, who have a PR version about psych ( such as " Yes, of course it's an important specialty and people should definitely take into consideration therapy " ) , and they also have a NOT-PR version of it ( which is : " Psych might be great for other people, but I won't consider it ever. " )

You can also look up the researches that show that doctors are the least likely to consider therapy when things go wrong. They turn much faster to pills, alcohol or other things to take off the edge than to go see a therapist.
One's got to be delusional to deny this ( or live in a place where things are really different, but it's certainly not the case for most part of America and the most part of Europe ).

This being said, I know exactly how valuable the Psych field is and it's exactly because of this that I observe how people truly feel about it ( not how they fake that they feel about it ) , and I simply see that the advice that points toward the importance of professional help is ineffective in most cases, because just by saying that " You need to seek professional help " won't mean anything to a person, it often times even causes people to completely ignore not just the advice, but the whole problem that they might have, because they don't want to consider the idea of getting professional help without actually having a positive opinion about it.
It's also one of those things that the more you push it, the harder it is to convince someone about it.
People have to think differently about Psych before they consider integrating it in their lives.
No matter how distressful a situation is for a person, if he has a negative opinion about Psych, he won't give it a try EVER.

This article may be of interest to you. Just make sure you have a medscape account.

Medscape: Medscape Access

 

[singasongofjoy]

The type of people who go into pysch are by nature incredibly extroverted due to having so many emotionally deep discussions with patients.

LOL ..... NOPE definitely not the case! In my experience far more introverts than extroverts though both are represented.

 

[Tsunnami]

This article may be of interest to you. Just make sure you have a medscape account.

Medscape: Medscape Access

Thanks, I will check it out.

 

[Tsunnami]

1. The "psych might be great for other people, but I won't consider it ever" can be said about any field of medicine....The list goes on and is far from limited to psych.

2. Your last bolded statement is also exaggerated and extremely overdramatic. While I agree that there needs to be a shift in the attitudes about mental health, from what I've seen it's already starting to happen....

3. Your views seem to be very black and white on the subject, like everyone's thoughts are either they're all in for treatment or they "won't give it a try EVER". Idk how far into training you are, but that is very, very far from the case with most of the psych patients I've seen and talked to or just the people in general who I've talked to.

Thanks for taking your time to answer thoroughly.

1. You make a good point. I didn't say that it is limited only to psych. However, Psych has its own stigma, this is what I was trying to emphasize.
What you say about other fields is true, people don't take their heart medication and don't go to regular dental checkups, but it's important to make the difference between not doing something because of laziness/negligence versus not doing something because it is associated with a strong stigma.

2. Maybe the shift is starting to happen, but it's definitely a slow progress. I live in a 3rd world country in Europe, probably this plays a big role also that my experiences are different from yours, but I can tell you that Psych is frowned upon in many places and people associate therapy with personal weakness and a negative reputation. Just as I said, they all have a PR version of it, which is about how beneficial therapy can be, but in the real version of it, they don't believe in it.
I also know, even though I'm not American, that having a history of psychological problems also can be a problem on your resumes and this is the reality.
The shift that you're talking about might be something that sounds good when you talk about theoretically , but when it comes down to facts, things are different.

3. I didn't want to give the impression that I have a black and white thinking. I simply highlighted a problem that is real and that everyone sees who is not blind.
Even on this forum, many of those who get the advice to seek therapy, give answers such " But won't it look bad ? Won't it hurt my reputation ? Won't it be a problem on my resume ? Won't people find out ? ", etc. etc.
One can rarely find a person who is comfortable speaking about his/her therapy.
I never stated by the way that there only people who go all in and people who don't give it a try, I stated that the ones who try it and actually stick to it are a minority, at least in the country I live in, so it might be different in America or some other countries in Europe.

 

[Stagg737]

Thanks for taking your time to answer thoroughly.

1. You make a good point. I didn't say that it is limited only to psych. However, Psych has its own stigma, this is what I was trying to emphasize.
What you say about other fields is true, people don't take their heart medication and don't go to regular dental checkups, but it's important to make the difference between not doing something because of laziness/negligence versus not doing something because it is associated with a strong stigma.

2. Maybe the shift is starting to happen, but it's definitely a slow progress. I live in a 3rd world country in Europe, probably this plays a big role also that my experiences are different from yours, but I can tell you that Psych is frowned upon in many places and people associate therapy with personal weakness and a negative reputation. Just as I said, they all have a PR version of it, which is about how beneficial therapy can be, but in the real version of it, they don't believe in it.
I also know, even though I'm not American, that having a history of psychological problems also can be a problem on your resumes and this is the reality.
The shift that you're talking about might be something that sounds good when you talk about theoretically , but when it comes down to facts, things are different.

3. I didn't want to give the impression that I have a black and white thinking. I simply highlighted a problem that is real and that everyone sees who is not blind.
Even on this forum, many of those who get the advice to seek therapy, give answers such " But won't it look bad ? Won't it hurt my reputation ? Won't it be a problem on my resume ? Won't people find out ? ", etc. etc.
One can rarely find a person who is comfortable speaking about his/her therapy.
I never stated by the way that there only people who go all in and people who don't give it a try, I stated that the ones who try it and actually stick to it are a minority, at least in the country I live in, so it might be different in America or some other countries in Europe.

I'm not saying the stigma doesn't exist, it certainly does. I'm saying that when someone has an actual mental illness that is noticably affecting their ability to function, at least in America, they're typically encouraged to actually seek help. Sure, there are still plenty of people who say "deal with it", but they typically fall into the category of ignorant individuals who don't understand what mental illness really is. People in the U.S. who don't stick to their psych meds are typically the ones who either don't want to take any meds at all or think they can stop taking them because they're feeling better or "cured".

The attitude you're talking about exists, but it sounds like it's far, far more prevalent in your country than in the U.S. I also don't see how it would be a problem on resumes or applications since it's illegal for companies in the U.S. to discriminate against a person for a medical condition.

 

[Amygdarya]

I'm not saying the stigma doesn't exist, it certainly does. I'm saying that when someone has an actual mental illness that is noticably affecting their ability to function, at least in America, they're typically encouraged to actually seek help. Sure, there are still plenty of people who say "deal with it", but they typically fall into the category of ignorant individuals who don't understand what mental illness really is. People in the U.S. who don't stick to their psych meds are typically the ones who either don't want to take any meds at all or think they can stop taking them because they're feeling better or "cured".

The attitude you're talking about exists, but it sounds like it's far, far more prevalent in your country than in the U.S. I also don't see how it would be a problem on resumes or applications since it's illegal for companies in the U.S. to discriminate against a person for a medical condition.

While I agree that the attitude toward psychiatry and people with mental illness is better in the US compared to many other countries and that it is illegal to discriminate based on (history of) mental illness, unfortunately, in reality it's not advisable to disclose (history of) mental illness because it can hurt your chances even if employers won't admit this as their reason to reject you.

 

[Stagg737]

While I agree that the attitude toward psychiatry and people with mental illness is better in the US compared to many other countries and that it is illegal to discriminate based on (history of) mental illness, unfortunately, in reality it's not advisable to disclose (history of) mental illness because it can hurt your chances even if employers won't admit this as their reason to reject you.

Of course, but there are a lot of things that aren't advisable to disclose with employers. I'm not saying there isn't a stigma (or even that there shouldn't be with certain professions and certain degrees of mental illness), I'm saying public perception of it has been getting better and it's not nearly to the extent that OP seems to have encountered in his country.