Drexel/Hahneman Closing

[gamerEMdoc]

Hahnemann University Hospital to close

Union leaders called on state and city officials to intervene and save Hahnemann. Barring that, the 496-bed hospital is slated to close by early September.

www.inquirer.com

With all the talk about residency expansion, I realize some may see something like this as good, but this is terrible for all the residents and fellows involved. This was obvious for some time now, and I really hope their GME department had a plan in place for where the residents will go. Just a terrible story. I can't even imagine matching at a place and moving to a city only to find out in my first few days there the hospital is shutting down. With this being rumored for so long, Drexel shouldn't have taken new residency classes this year unless they had a specific plan in place for when this happens. I really hope they have a plan.

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[Lawpy]

What happens to the incoming interns and new fellows?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

They should have orphan status where they can go to another residency and carry their medicare funding with them. Hopefully most will land on their feet. I have no inside knowledge on this, maybe some of the Philly programs have already planned to accomodate them? IDK

 

[deleted109597]

Their funding will follow them somewhere else.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

What happens to the incoming interns and new fellows?

Likely same as when USACS murdered Summa. The orphaned residents were given new places and scattered to the wind.

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

Wouldn’t be surprised if it carries on at their Mercy sites. And maybe they’ll add Nazareth as a site instead of opening a residency there. I guess we’ll see.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Yeah usually not a huge issue for residents. Acgme makes sure that all the residents find other places to continue training. When Summa closed, we got one resident from there who graduated on time without any issue.

 

[Skindoc83]

That hospital has been on the brink of closing for at least 15 years. I’m surprised they lasted this long but will also be surprised if it truly shuts down. Would also make me concerned about practicing in philly since penn and Jeff are buying up everyone making it only a matter of time before pay starts dropping

 

[Birdstrike]

It always bums me out when I hear of hospitals shutting down mid residency. Yes, they find spots for most of the residents, but it doesn’t seem fair they have to uproot their lives by no fault of their own, when they sign up for a multi year program, after finding housing, planting roots and make bonds. The hospital admins always know it’s coming years before they tell anyone, especially interviewing medical students who are always the last to know.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Yeah usually not a huge issue for residents. Acgme makes sure that all the residents find other places to continue training. When Summa closed, we got one resident from there who graduated on time without any issue.

When it happened to me (eons) ago, ACGME was of zero help in placing us. Every single one of the displaced residents had to beg and scrape to find a place to finish. I hope it's different now.

 

[deleted547339]

Yea. This sucks. I get it’s just unlucky when Charity gets hit by a hurricane, but this is bad leadership.

People who bought a house or have spouses who have gotten employment are hosed. I feel like you’d have a class action lawsuit, although you can’t get blood from a rock.

Yet another reason not to buy a house at the wrong time.

 

[NYEMMED]

Likely same as when USACS murdered Summa. The orphaned residents were given new places and scattered to the wind.

Funny part, some of those displaced residents are now employed by USACS. Obviously lesson not learned.

 

[scummie]

Funny part, some of those displaced residents are now employed by USACS. Obviously lesson not learned.

Ouch.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Funny part, some of those displaced residents are now employed by USACS. Obviously lesson not learned.

But they got that sick "ownership credit"

 

[NYEMMED]

But they got that sick "ownership credit"

Payouts gonna be “huge”

 

[scoKraz4]

If you are one of the residents at this program, my program has an opportunity for you. We have 12 potential spots ACGME approved, pm me.

 

[Rekt]

If you are one of the residents at this program, my program has an opportunity for you. We have 12 potential spots ACGME approved, pm me.

New/Upcoming program?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If you are one of the residents at this program, my program has an opportunity for you. We have 12 potential spots ACGME approved, pm me.

The residents havent been released yet to find another program. See the link below:

Hahnemann University Hospital closure upends career paths for 570 doctors-in-training

Hahnemann’s closure is causing “the largest orphaning of medical residents in the history of the United States,” according to Drexel University.

www.inquirer.com

There’s going to be tons of programs willing to accomodate them when they do, and I suspect most will stay in Philly since there are so many training programs there. The ACGME was very quick to respond to grant temporary increases for programs to take orphaned residents. Ours was granted in a day or two. I don't think any of the residents will be hurting to find a place to take them in.

 

[scoKraz4]

New/Upcoming program?

No. Established program that is planning to expand by 12 spots in near future. The permanent spots have been granted already.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Funny part, some of those displaced residents are now employed by USACS. Obviously lesson not learned.

That's not funny.

 

[BoardEligibleEventually]

Likely same as when USACS murdered Summa. The orphaned residents were given new places and scattered to the wind.

I know someone who was Orphaned by the Summa closing. Landed an EM PGY spot at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, FL. Pretty awesome QOL upgrade if you ask me, dude lucked out for sure.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

I would imagine those were people who just had to get back to Akron. Or something.

That's not funny.

 

[deleted109597]

I may have spoke too soon.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Very sad situation, however that was incredibly poorly written. Any time someone starts mentioning "people of color" my eyes glaze over and my sympathy plummets. Not sure how skin color relates to a residency program getting closed down......

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Wtf

I may have spoke too soon.

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

Wouldn’t be surprised if it carries on at their Mercy sites. And maybe they’ll add Nazareth as a site instead of opening a residency there. I guess we’ll see.

Apparently Drexel EM won't be able to move the residency to Mercy. I hope that the faculty/school will be able to regroup and restart the program once the dust settles. Its a shame to see one of the oldest residencies (only Cinci is older )go out like this, despite the troubles that they have had.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Very sad situation, however that was incredibly poorly written. Any time someone starts mentioning "people of color" my eyes glaze over and my sympathy plummets. Not sure how skin color relates to a residency program getting closed down......

Despite what you may feel in regards to politics or wording of an emotional appeal post, can we all at least agree that an orphaned resident not being allowed to take their ACGME provided funding to a new hospital (at which they have found a spot) is complete BS, wrong, and shameful?

 

[deleted109597]

Despite what you may feel in regards to politics or wording of an emotional appeal post, can we all at least agree that an orphaned resident not being allowed to take their ACGME provided funding to a new hospital (at which they have found a spot) is complete BS, wrong, and shameful?

Not sure how much of it is bureaucratic red tape though. Perhaps we could get rid of our current tea steeping model and go to a model more like ANZ/UK has. And then the hospitals pay you, but they bill for you, instead of this BS government one day a year lucky or not thing. And people could do all kinds of electives if they want. 3, 4, 5 years. You name it. Just do the required, and pass the test. Do it in BFE or big city. No matter.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Despite what you may feel in regards to politics or wording of an emotional appeal post, can we all at least agree that an orphaned resident not being allowed to take their ACGME provided funding to a new hospital (at which they have found a spot) is complete BS, wrong, and shameful?

I went through this as well. LA County refused to release our funding until we signed a waiver stating we wouldn't sue for any wrongdoing or mismanagement on the part of LA County and the hospital (there was a lot). Ultimately we all had no choice to sign. We had lots of "brown people" residents and they had the same maltreatment as the "white people". I'm tired of everything being about race, and dividing people up into groups.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Not sure how much of it is bureaucratic red tape though. Perhaps we could get rid of our current tea steeping model and go to a model more like ANZ/UK has. And then the hospitals pay you, but they bill for you, instead of this BS government one day a year lucky or not thing. And people could do all kinds of electives if they want. 3, 4, 5 years. You name it. Just do the required, and pass the test. Do it in BFE or big city. No matter.

That would mean government bureaucrats and politicians giving up control. Never going to happen in this country. That's certainly a swamp I'd love to see drained.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I went through this as well. LA County refused to release our funding until we signed a waiver stating we wouldn't sue for any wrongdoing or mismanagement on the part of LA County and the hospital (there was a lot). Ultimately we all had no choice to sign. We had lots of "brown people" residents and they had the same maltreatment as the "white people". I'm tired of everything being about race, and dividing people up into groups.

I'm Brown, moved to the US for college a decade ago. Honestly, never really experienced much racism, except for some drunk patients. I'm fairly certain my native country is significantly more racist towards other races than the US is towards non white people.

Eventhough I'm part of the snowflake generation, but man these people are sensitive

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Whatever, snowflake

I'm Brown, moved to the US for college a decade ago. Honestly, never really experienced much racism, except for some drunk patients. I'm fairly certain my native country is significantly more racist towards other races than the US is towards non white people.

Eventhough I'm part of the snowflake generation, but man these people are sensitive

 

[miacomet]

Whatever, capitalism. Guy bought it as a real estate investment, and that's what he's using it as.

 

[deleted941485]

How the hell did a single safety net hospital have 500 residents? Where is the acgme? I’m sure the place had a great educational environment those last few years. Utterly idiotic all around.

 

[John Red]

How the hell did a single safety net hospital have 500 residents? Where is the acgme? I’m sure the place had a great educational environment those last few years. Utterly idiotic all around.

Isn’t this the case at most safety-net / county programs? The IM program alone at “St Main Street General” can number in the 150+. Tack on IM fellowships and medicine alone can account for 200+ gme spots at a single institution. Toss in Surgery, Sub-surgical, and a few others, tada 500 residents / fellows.

Not saying it’s ideal, just don’t think its that uncommon. Our GME system relies heavily on poorly educated and improvised communities. Their pathology and willingness to accept trainees (where else would they go) makes for a great pairing for learners.

 

[deleted941485]

Isn’t this the case at most safety-net / county programs? The IM program alone at “St Main Street General” can number in the 150+. Tack on IM fellowships and medicine alone can account for 200+ gme spots at a single institution. Toss in Surgery, Sub-surgical, and a few others, tada 500 residents / fellows.

Not saying it’s ideal, just don’t think its that uncommon. Our GME system relies heavily on poorly educated and improvised communities. Their pathology and willingness to accept trainees (where else would they go) makes for a great pairing for learners.

So They’ve managed to cobble together a bunch of garbage and fuse it together with shoe string and bubble gum and call it an academic health system. Medical education needs a Flexner like moment.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

So They’ve managed to cobble together a bunch of garbage and fuse it together with shoe string and bubble gum and call it an academic health system. Medical education needs a Flexner like moment.

As an outsider without a solid understanding of health care economics, I always felt the hahnemann / Drexel relationship was weird. Is hahnemann Drexel? Is it not? Who's in charge here?

Unrelated but I got a weird feeling back in the day when I interviewed at Drexel for medical school. They have such a large class size (200+)...how are you adequately providing for the needs of all these students? You're certainly charging them a hefty private school tuition. Drexel med students get farmed out all over the state, including to lots of podunk community hospitals where I don't think they get the best education.

 

[deleted941485]

As an outsider without a solid understanding of health care economics, I always felt the hahnemann / Drexel relationship was weird. Is hahnemann Drexel? Is it not? Who's in charge here?

Unrelated but I got a weird feeling back in the day when I interviewed at Drexel for medical school. They have such a large class size (200+)...how are you adequately providing for the needs of all these students? You're certainly charging them a hefty private school tuition. Drexel med students get farmed out all over the state, including to lots of podunk community hospitals where I don't think they get the best education.

Seems like the “university” hospital they were at probably wasn’t much of one.

Community hospitals are second rate for learning esp at the Med student level.

More scrutiny from the LCME and ACGME are needed. Some of the intellectual and medical garbage I see graduating with MD after their name. A quick google search reveals why.

 

[rokshana]

Seems like the “university” hospital they were at probably wasn’t much of one.

Community hospitals are second rate for learning esp at the Med student level.

More scrutiny from the LCME and ACGME are needed. Some of the intellectual and medical garbage I see graduating with MD after their name. A quick google search reveals why.

Really? What is the point of these posts? You really need to make these residents feel worse at what is the lowest point in their lives?

While, obviously HUH has had issues for over 20 years at least, much of it has been financial given that they treat the underserved who frankly have no money or insurance...the medical school has been around for over 100 years...passing the criteria set by Flexner back the day...the residents and fellows that have come out of Drexel have their good and their bad.

Not sure why the dig at community programs...again some at good...some aren’t...

 

[namethatsmell]

Community hospitals are second rate for learning esp at the Med student level.

My impression is just the opposite.

Where I went to school all the students got their first taste of autonomy and actual hands on experience at the community hospitals much more than our fancy university hospital. My first central line, code I ran, person I intubated...all at the community affiliate hospitals.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

My impression is just the opposite.

Where I went to school all the students got their first taste of autonomy and actual hands on experience at the community hospitals much more than our fancy university hospital. My first central line, code I ran, person I intubated...all at the community affiliate hospitals.

I think it probably depends on what field you go into honestly, and probably is institution dependent. I know for EM, I had way more autonomy in community hospitals as a student, and that's the path I chose when applying to residencies because of it. I had similar experiences on my IM rotations as well as a student. But I'm sure there are University EM programs that give tons of autonomy to students and community programs that don't.

 

[deleted814217]

I am/was a Drexel EM resident, and will say that some things here are a little unfounded. While Hahnemann was a safety net hospital and had it's flaws, the acuity was there and the training was fantastic. The chair and PD were both excellent physicians and advocates for the department and the wide variety of sites (especially the Mercy sites and the ICU) were all incredible experiences. There was flaws sure, but it certainly was not some "cobbled together" program-it has produced some very strong physicians and graduates and the training was top notch. It is unfortunate that the Mercy program was not approved, and I still remain hopeful that something will come through regarding the future, although it seems very unlikely. And while residents do land on their feet, if you want to get technical with it, many of my classmates still got scattered, leases had to be broken, etc. etc., and the adjustment period is difficult for a new hospital. It is by no means an easy transition-even for people staying in Philadelphia learning a new EMR, new group of attendings, residents, nurses etc. is extremely difficult, and I would have thought the ACGME would seen this side of it, in considering the request to transition a program. The ACGME was not exactly helpful at all through the process-it was mainly our leadership and the other programs who helped. While ultimately we will get through residency and "land on our feet" whatever that means it certainly doesn't feel that way, and was the absolute worst case scenario for many of us

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I am/was a Drexel EM resident, and will say that some things here are a little unfounded. While Hahnemann was a safety net hospital and had it's flaws, the acuity was there and the training was fantastic. The chair and PD were both excellent physicians and advocates for the department and the wide variety of sites (especially the Mercy sites and the ICU) were all incredible experiences. There was flaws sure, but it certainly was not some "cobbled together" program-it has produced some very strong physicians and graduates and the training was top notch. It is unfortunate that the Mercy program was not approved, and I still remain hopeful that something will come through regarding the future, although it seems very unlikely. And while residents do land on their feet, if you want to get technical with it, many of my classmates still got scattered, leases had to be broken, etc. etc., and the adjustment period is difficult for a new hospital. It is by no means an easy transition-even for people staying in Philadelphia learning a new EMR, new group of attendings, residents, nurses etc. is extremely difficult, and I would have thought the ACGME would seen this side of it, in considering the request to transition a program. The ACGME was not exactly helpful at all through the process-it was mainly our leadership and the other programs who helped. While ultimately we will get through residency and "land on our feet" whatever that means it certainly doesn't feel that way, and was the absolute worst case scenario for many of us

I feel for you guys. Sending good vibes your way.