Em residency?

[jpl291]

I am a PA who is planning on going back to medical school. I am truly set on doing emergency medicine and greatly enjoyed my rotations as a pa in them. My questions are:

1. How competitive is em for and osteopathic student
2. What are the main factors that are evaluated.
3. Is it necessary to take the usmle to place into em or is the complex enough.
4. What year do you interview for residencies.
5. Any general recommendations you have to increase my chances

Thank You in advance.

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[DrMom]

DOs are highly represented in EM both in AOA (DO) and ACGME (MD) programs.
Do decently during MS1/2 and do multiple EM rotations during MS3/4.
USLME is expected for some ACGME programs, but not all. That said, it is much easier for those programs to compare you to other applicants if you've taken the same exam.

 

[Jamers]

I am a PA who has practiced for two years in family practice and some part time in an urgent care. I start next year at an osteopathic school. My interest has always been in Emergency Medicine but was unable to get a job as new grad in the ED. I am truly set on doing emergency medicine and greatly enjoyed my rotations as a pa in them. My questions are:

1. How competitive is em for and osteopathic student
2. What are the main factors that are evaluated.
3. Is it necessary to take the usmle to place into em or is the complex enough.
4. What year do you interview for residencies.
5. Any general recommendations you have to increase my chances

Thank You in advance.

1) EM is competitive and is getting more so each year. The issue is that more and more people are going into it for the lifestyle (who wouldn't want shift work and not having to be on call?). As said previously, however, it does not make it anymore difficult to get a spot being an osteopathic graduate.

2) Depends on the program. Board scores are always king no matter what field you go into. Its one of the main measuring sticks. That being said, good grades will get you into the door but personality generally gets you a spot from there. One of the biggest questions we ask ourselves when interviewing someone is "can we get along with this person for X number of years?"

3) I never took the USMLE but it would, again, depend on the program.

4) Fourth year.

5) Good board scores, don't be a douche.


EM Resident.

 

[engineeredout]

Should you/can you do any 3rd year rotations in EM?

 

[MSmentor018]

1. How competitive is em for and osteopathic student
2. What are the main factors that are evaluated.
3. Is it necessary to take the usmle to place into em or is the complex enough.
4. What year do you interview for residencies.
5. Any general recommendations you have to increase my chances

Thank You in advance.

1. having prior exp will definitely help with your app when applying (it did for me), I can only assume you're going to score well in your ms 3/4 yr. it's getting more and more competitive but so are all the ROADE(rad, ortho, anes, derm, em) programs. being a DO crossing into MD programs can be challenging. some hospitals have locked out DO's from rotating there or simply have a quota in place. I just interviewed last yr and helping with interviews this yr, the current applicants have told me it hasn't changed.
2. look at NRMP.com, find EM, it'll tell you what the PD's think is important. getting along, personality is usually very, very high on the list.
3. I did, just step 2. I knew I'd score higher on that than step 1 so that's all I took to show competitiveness....and so glad i did! during MD interviews most places didn't know how to read a comlex score, the conversion table doesn't help us any.
4. 4th yr but rotating at places at the end of your 3rd yr will help score you an interview spot
5. there's tons of advice...so much I am actually writing a book about it.
feel free to pm me with questions. good luck!

 

[wook]

I am a PA who has practiced for two years in family practice and some part time in an urgent care. I start next year at an osteopathic school. My interest has always been in Emergency Medicine but was unable to get a job as new grad in the ED. I am truly set on doing emergency medicine and greatly enjoyed my rotations as a pa in them. My questions are:

1. How competitive is em for and osteopathic student
2. What are the main factors that are evaluated.
3. Is it necessary to take the usmle to place into em or is the complex enough.
4. What year do you interview for residencies.
5. Any general recommendations you have to increase my chances

Thank You in advance.

Agree with previous posts.

I was one of the folks that did not take the USMLE, and still would not. Depending on what EM program you are interested, they may prefer you to have taken USMLE.

Thanks.


Wook

 

[sammy911]

Has a DO ever interviewed and/or matched to Vanderbilt's EM residency?

 

[woodhorse22]

im a 3 rd year at CCOM and am interested in EM as well. I am still not sure if I should take the USMLE step 2. I did take USMLE step 1 along with COMLEX. Do you guys think USMLE Step 2 will help considering I do about the same as my step 1? thanks

 

[PistolPete]

If you've already taken USMLE Step 1, and are interested in ACGME EM residencies, then I would think you'd be an advantage if you take USMLE Step 2 as well, especially if you do above average.

 

[MSmentor018]

im a 3 rd year at CCOM and am interested in EM as well. I am still not sure if I should take the USMLE step 2. I did take USMLE step 1 along with COMLEX. Do you guys think USMLE Step 2 will help considering I do about the same as my step 1? thanks

if you're going MD, it can't hurt.....unless you bomb it. it helps the PD look at your app against other MD applicants. there's no way (the conversion score sucks) to judge comlex vs usmle knowledge base except to say if you nail both of them, it looks great. if you're only doing DO, then don't bother. I only did step 2 usmle, had plenty of MD/DO interviews and entered a MD program. throughout the interviews, no one commented on comlex score, only usmle . study hard, good luck

 

[D.O.nysus]

I agree with MSmentor and Jamers. As a D.O. candidate with about 60th percentile comlex scores I felt it was absolutely necessary for me to take the USMLE. I also felt my best bet was Step II (don't forget that you don't need to take them sequentially so you can take Step II without taking Step I). I think this was absolutely essential for allopathic program directors when considering a candidate with mediocre comlex scores...In other words, mediocre USMLE scores are better than mediocre comlex scores. That being said, the better you do on the Comlex the less important a USMLE score becomes.
Also, Jamers' comment on not being a douche is so accurate (and underappreciated). EM is one of the few specialties where most programs use a common sense litmus test. "Is this someone I would want to work with?" routinely trumps "Is this the most academically accomplished candidate?” Thus the importance of an audition rotation. The next question that always comes up is how many audition rotations does one do? I think that is hard to answer finitely. We often hear answers in the 1-3 range. I think if you know early on what will be atop your MATCH rank order list, then try to rotate there. If you don't, try to rotate at a program that has a national reputation. Having a SLOR from the program director at a top tier program that says "this guy is a top candidate that is likely to be ranked in our top..." is currency that will have value at other national programs as well as regional programs.
Just my 2 cents

 

[Redrox]

.

 

[vandyam]

Has a DO ever interviewed and/or matched to Vanderbilt's EM residency?

Yes, I work with some on a daily basis.

 

[Flushot]

The EM forums also are starting suggest Step 2 USMLE if you are highly considering ACGME residencies. The question I'm starting to wonder is, for EM, would it be worth it to take USMLE Step 1 as well?

 

[DannyDeRosa]

very few people match anything other than general med/FP doing the least possible to match the best possible. My advice is to dominate as hard as possible in all ways and then be honest if you have what it tiakes to be a legit contender for a spot. aka COMLEX 408 does not equal ortho no matter how much ace you kiss. If you want EM in the AOA/dual match get at least a 500 or better yet 550 COMLEX and make a 3.5 GPA. and like the previous dude said......go to the place, show your skills over a couple weeks, and DO NOT BE A D BAG!

 

[MSmentor018]

The EM forums also are starting suggest Step 2 USMLE if you are highly considering ACGME residencies. The question I'm starting to wonder is, for EM, would it be worth it to take USMLE Step 1 as well?

read post #10

 

[MRSAful Fate]

I'm c/o 2015 and my game plan at this point is to go into EM and do an ACGME residency. From reading up on the forums quite a bit and doing some research I have come up with the following strategy to maximize my chances of getting into a program I really want (subject to change of course, I am still but a lowly pre-med).

-Work hard for my boards and take both USMLE Step 1 & 2. It seems like it is worth it to take (and do well on) both.

-Get some clinical research experience, hopefully in EM.

-Participate in as much EM stuff as I can (membership to ACEP, SAEM, EM club at school)

-Lots of EM rotations 3rd/4th year

-Try not to be a douche

 

[DocEspana]

I'm c/o 2015 and my game plan at this point is to go into EM and do an ACGME residency. From reading up on the forums quite a bit and doing some research I have come up with the following strategy to maximize my chances of getting into a program I really want (subject to change of course, I am still but a lowly pre-med).

-Work hard for my boards and take both USMLE Step 1 & 2. It seems like it is worth it to take (and do well on) both.

-Get some clinical research experience, hopefully in EM.

-Participate in as much EM stuff as I can (membership to ACEP, SAEM, EM club at school)

-Lots of EM rotations 3rd/4th year

-Try not to be a douche

Historically this has been a real stumbling block for many people.

 

[OncoticPressure]

I'm c/o 2015 and my game plan at this point is to go into EM and do an ACGME residency. From reading up on the forums quite a bit and doing some research I have come up with the following strategy to maximize my chances of getting into a program I really want (subject to change of course, I am still but a lowly pre-med).

-Work hard for my boards and take both USMLE Step 1 & 2. It seems like it is worth it to take (and do well on) both.

It is worth it to take them both to be competetive at allopathic EM programs.

-Get some clinical research experience, hopefully in EM.

This helps, but not that much. check out the 2010 NRMP Program Director's Survey and it is not that high on the list of selection factors. But it does show dedication, builds faculty connections and you should be interested in it if your doing it.

-Participate in as much EM stuff as I can (membership to ACEP, SAEM, EM club at school)

Yes. Try to gain at least a leadership position otherwise it looks like you didn't do much except get a free lunch or two.

-Lots of EM rotations 3rd/4th year

Especially at places your looking to match. Opinions differ on this though. Try selecting a competetive allopathic program and a traditionally DO friendly place like Mercy St. Vincent's in Toledo or Peoria (the program director there is a DO of an allopathic EM residency).

-Try not to be a douche

Of course.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

It is worth it to take them both to be competetive at allopathic EM programs.



This helps, but not that much. check out the 2010 NRMP Program Director's Survey and it is not that high on the list of selection factors. But it does show dedication, builds faculty connections and you should be interested in it if your doing it.



Yes. Try to gain at least a leadership position otherwise it looks like you didn't do much except get a free lunch or two.



Especially at places your looking to match. Opinions differ on this though. Try selecting a competetive allopathic program and a traditionally DO friendly place like Mercy St. Vincent's in Toledo or Peoria (the program director there is a DO of an allopathic EM residency).



Of course.

How many EM rotations are normally possible for med students to do?

 

[DocEspana]

How many EM rotations are normally possible for med students to do?

expert advice i was given by a batch of fourth years (and its also common sense) is to do one elective rotation in your ideal subject. Since ER is a core as well, you'll prob just do one additional month ontop of it. The suggestion was if you *really* want to show dedication, do a second month of elective rotations, but I dont know how much that applies to something that is already a core.

The bigger point is: doing more rotations than that really takes away your opportunities to explore other similar fields that will broaden your CV and your appeal to programs. The example I was given was for a guy who just matched PMnR. The guy really wanted it and he explained that people he met on his rotations who made it into PMnR programs are the ones who did 1 or 2 months of it and then expanded with other unusual but related fields. He personally spoke at length how every program that (he assumes) ranked him had him talk mostly about his experience on a palliative care elective, rather than his PMnR experience, as the LORs sort of spoke for themselves.

A similar story was given for the 4th year who matched IM, she did an extra month of IM at the place she really wanted to go. Knew she got a stellar LOR, and spent the rest of her 4th year putting time into cardio, pulm, and geriatrics so her experience was diverse as possible in 'definitely overlaps IM' specialties.

dont assume doing 'lots' of ER rotations will do anything except lower the depth of your education. there is a magic amount somewhere you need to feel out.

 

[MSmentor018]

How many EM rotations are normally possible for med students to do?

i've heard 3 is the avg but for obvious reasons, the more you do, the more exposure you're going to have with key players. you can boost your self education (or vacation) after the match with roations and trips but I recommend you do as many as possible and impress everyone. with each rotation usually comes a courtesy interview. if you're weak on paper but strong in clinicals, that's the way to go. on the other hand, if you're not weak in clinicals or have a personality disorder.....better stay away and let your ERAS try to sell you