Email admissions dean?

[upupandaway2022]

Hi, long time lurker with a question. I was emailing the admissions dean of an MD school up until a few months ago about my application, for med school. The dean was very nice and gave me some pointers, including CV review. We had an email conversation that lasted for ~6 months. She then asked me to apply ED, which I declined. She asked if I would meet with her to talk about it, but I declined again because there were many reasons I could not unfortunately lock in my decision by October including my partner, who is also applying to law school. Rather than meet with her and decline anyway, I thought it would be best to reiterate I was not looking for ED, but thanked her for thinking of this and that I loved the school and was excited about applying (was that a bad decision?)

Long story short, it seems like my partner will have a great shot in the area where the med school is, but I am facing radio silence from the school: no II. I could provide an update, but I dont have anything new to say (I started new volunteering position, but submitted my app with 500+ hours already, so not that big a deal). Would it be ok to reach out to the dean via email and reiterate my interest in the school?

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[Moko]

Hi, long time lurker with a question. I was emailing the admissions dean of an MD school up until a few months ago about my application, for med school. The dean was very nice and gave me some pointers, including CV review. We had an email conversation that lasted for ~6 months. She then asked me to apply ED, which I declined. She asked if I would meet with her to talk about it, but I declined again because there were many reasons I could not unfortunately lock in my decision by October including my partner, who is also applying to law school. Rather than meet with her and decline anyway, I thought it would be best to reiterate I was not looking for ED, but thanked her for thinking of this and that I loved the school and was excited about applying (was that a bad decision?)

Long story short, it seems like my partner will have a great shot in the area where the med school is, but I am facing radio silence from the school: no II. I could provide an update, but I dont have anything new to say (I started new volunteering position, but submitted my app with 500+ hours already, so not that big a deal). Would it be ok to reach out to the dean via email and reiterate my interest in the school?

It seems that your relationship ended on fairly abrupt terms when you declined to even meet with the dean to explain your predicament in person. Most reasonable people would have understood why you wanted to apply broadly. Unfortunately, I think that your delivery of this information may have burned your bridge at this school. You have little to lose by contacting the school, but you should also temper your expectations. Just my thoughts and best of luck.

 

[KnightDoc]

It seems that your relationship ended on fairly abrupt terms when you declined to even meet with the dean to explain your predicament in person. Most reasonable people would have understood why you wanted to apply broadly. Unfortunately, I think that your delivery of this information may have burned your bridge at this school. You have little to lose by contacting the school, but you should also temper your expectations. Just my thoughts and best of luck.

THIS ^^^ 1,000,000%. Very few among us have the opportunity to develop a relationship with an admissions dean, and to be personally invited to apply ED. That was a signal that you would have been accepted had you been willing to commit after all the time that the dean invested in you. You declined, for very legit reasons, choosing instead to play the field.

The school probably has very little interest in being used as a back up by you, hence the radio silence now. Even if this isn't the case, this is what you signaled by not taking the meeting and then applying RD.

While @Goro is fond of saying that schools are not like jealous BFs and GFs, in this case that would be wrong. You were personally invited by the dean to apply ED, and then to meet to discuss it. You declined both invitiations, and then were ghosted when you applied RD. You can probably write this school off.

Given that this is the situation, you have nothing to lose by reaching out and seeing what happens. Hopefully, you have other options. If not, this is a valuable lesson for all of us.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I had no idea medical schools invite candidates to apply ED or that admissions deans mentor pre-application candidates.

 

[KnightDoc]

I had no idea medical schools invite candidates to apply ED or that admissions deans mentor pre-application candidates.

It's rare, and usually involves diversity candidates, because schools really do need to do more to bring them in.

Without knowing anything else, I can definitely see how a dean would be insulted after cultivating a candidate, including pointers and CV review, and then being rebuffed and blown off after extending an invitation to apply ED.

If the candidate is strong, no harm, other than at the one school, and maybe not even there if the candidate is really strong, depending on how spiteful the dean is. Otherwise, possible big boo-boo that hopefully others reading this will learn from.

 

[upupandaway2022]

Thanks to everyone for their replies.. to give some more info here, I did write the dean a pretty apologetic email when I declined the invitation, saying that although I loved the school, I could not commit to ED because of the situation with my partner. I didn't decline in a more direct or abrupt way, and then I followed up saying that they were a top priority for me and I looked forward to applying RD.

Also, I didn't do this to play the field as implied by @KnightDoc, nor am I of the mentality of Harvard or bust. While my stats I believe are fairly competitive for med school (MCAT 516, GPA 3.9x), this only had to do with my partner's concurrent app..

Perhaps I could have met with her, but I didn't want to waste her time. I'm sure admissions dean's are super busy and the half hour, she was going to meet with me could have gone to so many other things.. it was purely a matter of, there is 0 percent chance of me applying ED because of an unavoidable personal matter, so why waster her time with a courtesy meeting. Obviously that could have been misinterpreted, but that's where I was coming from..

 

[upupandaway2022]

It seems that your relationship ended on fairly abrupt terms when you declined to even meet with the dean to explain your predicament in person. Most reasonable people would have understood why you wanted to apply broadly. Unfortunately, I think that your delivery of this information may have burned your bridge at this school. You have little to lose by contacting the school, but you should also temper your expectations. Just my thoughts and best of luck.

Thank you Moko.. based on yours and others responses, I see that my interpretation might have been incorrect here, and probably a courtesy meeting would have been preferable to declining over email.

I would love to follow up with her now by email and see if any update might help this situation. How should I go about doing this? Should I send app updates about volunteering and reiterate my interest in the school, or should I talk about my partner and our situation again? Would love to get your input about how best to approach this. Thank you.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thank you Moko.. based on yours and others responses, I see that my interpretation might have been incorrect here, and probably a courtesy meeting would have been preferable to declining over email.

I would love to follow up with her now by email and see if any update might help this situation. How should I go about doing this? Should I send app updates about volunteering and reiterate my interest in the school, or should I talk about my partner and our situation again? Would love to get your input about how best to approach this. Thank you.

How has the situation with your partner changed? Has there been a law school acceptance received?

How has your cycle gone so far? Any interviews or acceptances so far?

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks to everyone for their replies.. to give some more info here, I did write the dean a pretty apologetic email when I declined the invitation, saying that although I loved the school, I could not commit to ED because of the situation with my partner. I didn't decline in a more direct or abrupt way, and then I followed up saying that they were a top priority for me and I looked forward to applying RD.

Also, I didn't do this to play the field as implied by @KnightDoc, nor am I of the mentality of Harvard or bust.

I get it, and am not saying that what you did was not 1,000% legit, but, literally, not applying ED means playing the field, since you are applying to multiple schools without making an early commitment to any of them.

 

[upupandaway2022]

How has the situation with your partner changed? Has there been a law school acceptance received?

How has your cycle gone so far? Any interviews or acceptances so far?

I have had three interviews so far, have not heard back about any acceptances..

I guess it is still early in the cycle for both of us, while my partner has not received an acceptance to law school yet, they've gotten multiple interviews within the area of this one med school, and I believe (fingers crossed) that their first acceptance will come in a few weeks. Of special mention, this would be their first choice law school, and if I got into the med school, it would be a no brainer for both of us to choose those schools.

I decided to post this now and ask for advice, because I thought it might be bad to potentially email the med school dean in Jan or Feb when it looks like I'm only emailing them as a last resort. Would it be ok to email in a few weeks if my partner gets the A? Should I mention this again, or maybe only talk about general app updates if I do email them (to not be presumptuous before even offered an interview).

 

[KnightDoc]

How has the situation with your partner changed? Has there been a law school acceptance received?

How has your cycle gone so far? Any interviews or acceptances so far?

This^^^^^. Where are you on IIs and As right now? If you are doing well, you might want to consider writing this one off. If not, do what you have to do.

No one has said it yet, but it needs to be said. Getting into ANY med school is REALLY tough, even with your stats. Only 36% of applicants were successful last year, and only around half of them had more than one choice. Of course, your odds are better given your stats, but, still.

The odds of your partner having more choices for law school are off the charts higher. As a result, it probably makes sense for your partner to consider following you rather than the other way around, assuming you are committed to spending the next 3 years together.

 

[KnightDoc]

I have had three interviews so far, have not heard back about any acceptances..

I guess it is still early in the cycle for both of us, while my partner has not received an acceptance to law school yet, they've gotten multiple interviews within the area of this one med school, and I believe (fingers crossed) that their first acceptance will come in a few weeks. Of special mention, this would be their first choice law school, and if I got into the med school, it would be a no brainer for both of us to choose those schools.

I decided to post this now and ask for advice, because I thought it might be bad to potentially email the med school dean in Jan or Feb when it looks like I'm only emailing them as a last resort. Would it be ok to email in a few weeks if my partner gets the A? Should I mention this again, or maybe only talk about general app updates if I do email them (to not be presumptuous before even offered an interview).

If you don't want to write the school off, there is no reason to hold off on reaching out now. If you don't receive a response, then that's your answer. Otherwise, maybe you will be successful in jump starting this application. The good news is, with 3 IIs and probably more to come, there is a decent chance you will be attending med school next year.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I have had three interviews so far, have not heard back about any acceptances..

I guess it is still early in the cycle for both of us, while my partner has not received an acceptance to law school yet, they've gotten multiple interviews within the area of this one med school, and I believe (fingers crossed) that their first acceptance will come in a few weeks. Of special mention, this would be their first choice law school, and if I got into the med school, it would be a no brainer for both of us to choose those schools.

I decided to post this now and ask for advice, because I thought it might be bad to potentially email the med school dean in Jan or Feb when it looks like I'm only emailing them as a last resort. Would it be ok to email in a few weeks if my partner gets the A? Should I mention this again, or maybe only talk about general app updates if I do email them (to not be presumptuous before even offered an interview).

An "update" might be helpful if you could say: (a) my partner received an acceptance at his first choice law school located in your vicinity, (b) I've had successes this cycle and have other options but your med school would be my first choice b/c of (a) partner, (b) admissions dean's mentorship and (c) other reasons. I would appreciate the opportunity to meet with your admissions committee to answer any questions about my application.

You'd have a concrete "update" regarding your partner, a firm commitment and your reassurance that you're not doing this out of desperation (given your other options). Such an update would go to the med school admissions office AND separately to the admissions dean.

The closer you can get to the above, the more likely your update would be well received.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Sometimes you have to set priorities.

I know that if I was guaranteed an acceptance somewhere, I would take it even if it meant having to breakup with my gf via text and never seeing her again. wouldn’t even take a minute to think about it.

As somebody who has been accepted only to lose it, I now realize that sometimes one chance is all you get. If you don’t seize it, then you may lose it forever.

 

[shotgunlagoon]

Sometimes you have to set priorities.

I know that if I was guaranteed an acceptance somewhere, I would take it even if it meant having to breakup with my gf via text and never seeing her again. wouldn’t even take a minute to think about it.

As somebody who has been accepted only to lose it, I now realize that sometimes one chance is all you get. If you don’t seize it, then you may lose it forever.

Oof... I hope your gf doesn't have to read this comment ever because she'd definitely realize you don't value her or the relationship at all. If I had to take an acceptance somewhere my partner couldn't join me, I'd be okay with going long distance, but I definitely wouldn't be okay with breaking up with him via text and cutting him out of my life immediately without even giving it a try.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Oof... I hope your gf doesn't have to read this comment ever because she'd definitely realize you don't value her or the relationship at all. If I had to take an acceptance somewhere my partner couldn't join me, I'd be okay with going long distance, but I definitely wouldn't be okay with breaking up with him via text and cutting him out of my life immediately without even giving it a try.

Almost certainly doesn’t know what sdn is. Though has almost caught me on here a few times.

 

[upupandaway2022]

Sometimes you have to set priorities.

I know that if I was guaranteed an acceptance somewhere, I would take it even if it meant having to breakup with my gf via text and never seeing her again. wouldn’t even take a minute to think about it.

As somebody who has been accepted only to lose it, I now realize that sometimes one chance is all you get. If you don’t seize it, then you may lose it forever.

Uh. Ok? Sounds awful.

And it's my fiance who's going to be my spouse next summer kind of deal.. so.. breaking up via text would be pretty unforgivable

 

[Poprockets]

Sometimes you have to set priorities.

I know that if I was guaranteed an acceptance somewhere, I would take it even if it meant having to breakup with my gf via text and never seeing her again. wouldn’t even take a minute to think about it.

As somebody who has been accepted only to lose it, I now realize that sometimes one chance is all you get. If you don’t seize it, then you may lose it forever.

You say this so proud too...Jeez
You've really been showing who you are on SDN including desperate, extremely neurotic.
This post maybe will get me banned but had to get that off my chest. Not enough people keep you in check.

 

[upupandaway2022]

It was quite a bad thing to hear, I wasn't sure if I was getting trolled or not.

But for the others who commented, thank you for your advice! I think I will email the dean, just give her an update about my partner and see what happens!

 

[upupandaway2022]

An "update" might be helpful if you could say: (a) my partner received an acceptance at his first choice law school located in your vicinity, (b) I've had successes this cycle and have other options but your med school would be my first choice b/c of (a) partner, (b) admissions dean's mentorship and (c) other reasons. I would appreciate the opportunity to meet with your admissions committee to answer any questions about my application.

You'd have a concrete "update" regarding your partner, a firm commitment and your reassurance that you're not doing this out of desperation (given your other options). Such an update would go to the med school admissions office AND separately to the admissions dean.

The closer you can get to the above, the more likely your update would be well received.

Is that preferable to talk about my other options now though, when it is just IIs, not As.. I'd just prefer to write to her about her school, and if she wanted to talk to me like she did last time I could talk about the other schools.. but putting it in email seems braggy and especially after (maybe pissing her off once), I definitely don't want to come off the wrong way again..

 

[MyOdyssey]

Is that preferable to talk about my other options now though, when it is just IIs, not As.. I'd just prefer to write to her about her school, and if she wanted to talk to me like she did last time I could talk about the other schools.. but putting it in email seems braggy and especially after (maybe pissing her off once), I definitely don't want to come off the wrong way again..

You have to explain why this school is suddenly your first choice again and also convince the dean that you’re committed to them this time around.

The school itself hasn’t changed so my view is that talking about the merits of the school alone won’t move the needle.

Your fiancée having a law school acceptance to his/her first choice law school would be the most important update. Then you also have to show that you’re not doing this out of a lack of interest from other schools.

JMHO

 

[KnightDoc]

It was quite a bad thing to hear, I wasn't sure if I was getting trolled or not.

But for the others who commented, thank you for your advice! I think I will email the dean, just give her an update about my partner and see what happens!

Yeah, you were getting trolled. I think he was just exaggerating to make a point. Nobody HAS to destroy their personal life in order to attend med school. It happens to some because things happen, but it's far from a foregone conclusion.

If things don't work out with this one school, though, what I posted above really does apply to your situation. Law school applicants tend to have far more flexibility than med school applicants with respect to their ultimate choices. If you are committed to being together for the next 3 years, your partner might have to be willing to go where you are, rather than the other way around.

 

[KnightDoc]

Is that preferable to talk about my other options now though, when it is just IIs, not As.. I'd just prefer to write to her about her school, and if she wanted to talk to me like she did last time I could talk about the other schools.. but putting it in email seems braggy and especially after (maybe pissing her off once), I definitely don't want to come off the wrong way again..

Yeah, I'm not sure where that was coming from, because you don't have other options at this point. You have 3 IIs. As you said before, waiting until you have other As might involve waiting too long to actually get an II here, so I don't think you should that. I'd stay away from talking about other schools and follow your gut. Good luck!!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Definitely do not talk about other schools

Also yes I was exaggerating to make a point albeit not too far from reality

 

[KnightDoc]

You have to explain why this school is suddenly your first choice again and also convince the dean that you’re committed to them this time around.

The school itself hasn’t changed so my view is that talking about the merits of the school alone won’t move the needle.

Your fiancée having a law school acceptance to his/her first choice law school would be the most important update. Then you also have to show that you’re not doing this out of a lack of interest from other schools.

JMHO

Everything you are saying is true, and is also why this is going to be a very difficult needle to thread.

1. It isn't a first choice AGAIN. It wasn't a first choice before, hence the reluctance to apply ED. Also, as @Goro and the other adcoms are fond of saying, LOIs are treated as lies by most of them most of the time. ED represented a binding commitment that OP was unwilling to make. Convincing a dean that a commitment now is going to be honored is not going to be easy.

2. True, but maybe demonstrating an updated appreciation for all the school has to offer will.

3. Also true, but unclear whether this will matter to the dean after the prior snub. Lack of interest from other schools will be inferred at this point, no matter what the reality is. Other acceptances, at higher ranked schools, might make a difference. Otherwise, no, a few IIs with no As, from some random schools, is not a compelling demonstration of interest from other schools likely to overcome a ghosting that was provoked by what happened earlier, if, indeed, that is why OP hasn't heard from the school.

 

[upupandaway2022]

Everything you are saying is true, and is also why this is going to be a very difficult needle to thread.

1. It isn't a first choice AGAIN. It wasn't a first choice before, hence the reluctance to apply ED. Also, as @Goro and the other adcoms are fond of saying, LOIs are treated as lies by most of them most of the time. ED represented a binding commitment that OP was unwilling to make. Convincing a dean that a commitment now is going to be honored is not going to be easy.

2. True, but maybe demonstrating an updated appreciation for all the school has to offer will.

3. Also true, but unclear whether this will matter to the dean after the prior snub. Lack of interest from other schools will be inferred at this point, no matter what the reality is. Other acceptances, at higher ranked schools, might make a difference. Otherwise, no, a few IIs with no As, from some random schools, is not a compelling demonstration of interest from other schools likely to overcome a ghosting that was provoked by what happened earlier, if, indeed, that is why OP hasn't heard from the school.

Thank you for advising the same approach I was most comfortable with.. Although I would like to ask, how is it fair to say that they were not a first choice? I was only not comfortable with ED and making a decision by Oct 1. I have seen advice here that ED is the best bet if someone is 1,000% sure they will be in the area, which I was not at all, or if someone is borderline competitive, which again, I don't think applies to me.. it just seems a little harsh to be snubbed for not applying ED, I still applied RD to the school and am quite willing to attend, as long as I can make that decision in the coming few months when things are more clear for both of us..

Plus, it is November right? Schools only started giving out As two weeks ago and I think the cycle is still going on and won't really start drying up until early spring, so why would reaching out now be seen as a desperate move because of lack of interest? Two IIs were from T20 and one was from a similarly ranked school as the one I am now interested in (T50? I don't know). But even if I do magically get an A from any of these places in the next day or two, I still would feel weird to mention it. Won't deans be annoyed if I say, "I got into HARVARD, but I will still choose you". If it were me who received that email, I would say Harvard was lucky to have upupandaway and then put the app in the reject pile... but is that just me?

 

[MyOdyssey]

Definitely do not talk about other schools

Thank you for advising the same approach I was most comfortable with.. Although I would like to ask, how is it fair to say that they were not a first choice? I was only not comfortable with ED and making a decision by Oct 1. I have seen advice here that ED is the best bet if someone is 1,000% sure they will be in the area, which I was not at all, or if someone is borderline competitive, which again, I don't think applies to me.. it just seems a little harsh to be snubbed for not applying ED, I still applied RD to the school and am quite willing to attend, as long as I can make that decision in the coming few months when things are more clear for both of us..

Plus, it is November right? Schools only started giving out As two weeks ago and I think the cycle is still going on and won't really start drying up until early spring, so why would reaching out now be seen as a desperate move because of lack of interest? Two IIs were from T20 and one was from a similarly ranked school as the one I am now interested in (T50? I don't know). But even if I do magically get an A from any of these places in the next day or two, I still would feel weird to mention it. Won't deans be annoyed if I say, "I got into HARVARD, but I will still choose you". If it were me who received that email, I would say Harvard was lucky to have upupandaway and then put the app in the reject pile... but is that just me?

I was advising to wait until your fiancée received an actual law school acceptance. Otherwise, the implication is that you would change your mind again if his/her interview(s) don’t pan out.

In the meantime, you might get an acceptance from a medical school.

Premeds do send letters of interest in which they say a school is their first choice despite having received other offers. This would be along the same lines.

JMHO.

 

[Dral]

The thing that is odd about this is that not many people at all have that sort of relationship with a Dean.

I'm not sure how you originally developed this relationship. If had something to do with nepotism or something similar then ok, but if was more 'out of the blue', the the following are my thoughts: You may get all of this already, but if a Dean of a school that wasn't your own undergrad took the time from their busy and super stressful schedule to help some undergrad they owed nothing to with their app, I, as the Dean, would have the expectation that the student was intent on attending my school. The Dean actually went out of their way to encourage ED, which you declined.

I get your reasons and it totally makes sense, but from their standpoint, they are donating their time to you with now, no apparent benefit back to them. They are not your undergrad adviser, undergrad premed committee, etc. It actually blows my mind they took all that time to help you out (unless there is something I'm missing about how you developed a mentor/mentee relationship with them).

I totally get your reasons for doing what you have done so far, but just understand (I'm sure you do), that the Dean may feel a little 'burnt' right now.

 

[upupandaway2022]

The thing that is odd about this is that not many people at all have that sort of relationship with a Dean.

I'm not sure how you originally developed this relationship. If had something to do with nepotism or something similar then ok, but if was more 'out of the blue', the the following are my thoughts: You may get all of this already, but if a Dean of a school that wasn't your own undergrad took the time from their busy and super stressful schedule to help some undergrad they owed nothing to with their app, I, as the Dean, would have the expectation that the student was intent on attending my school. The Dean actually went out of their way to encourage ED, which you declined.

I get your reasons and it totally makes sense, but from their standpoint, they are donating their time to you with now, no apparent benefit back to them. They are not your undergrad adviser, undergrad premed committee, etc. It actually blows my mind they took all that time to help you out (unless there is something I'm missing about how you developed a mentor/mentee relationship with them).

I totally get your reasons for doing what you have done so far, but just understand (I'm sure you do), that the Dean may feel a little 'burnt' right now.

Thank you dral, and again, it is becoming clear from a lot of other commenters here that I made a big miscalculation and should have just met with the dean. But just as you said above, I did not want to waste any more of their time when I could not apply ED, and so I said that while I really appreciated the invitation, I couldn't go through with it because of the situation with my partner. I checked my past emails to make sure and I apologized 5 times over 2 emails, so i really hope it did not come off as rude.. But as Moko and Knightdoc and others have posted above, that was a risk I took and even good intentions could come off wrong over email. I probably should have posted on sdn months ago before sending the email, rather than now with a follow-up dilemma.

As to why the dean was so nice to me, I really don't know. Definitely not nepotism or even diversity (I'm White), so I am really stumped. Seems like she is just an amazing dean who saw something in me, and wanted to help? All reasons I would love to go the school even more, but I guess we will see what happens....

 

[KnightDoc]

Thank you for advising the same approach I was most comfortable with.. Although I would like to ask, how is it fair to say that they were not a first choice? I was only not comfortable with ED and making a decision by Oct 1. I have seen advice here that ED is the best bet if someone is 1,000% sure they will be in the area, which I was not at all, or if someone is borderline competitive, which again, I don't think applies to me.. it just seems a little harsh to be snubbed for not applying ED, I still applied RD to the school and am quite willing to attend, as long as I can make that decision in the coming few months when things are more clear for both of us..

Plus, it is November right? Schools only started giving out As two weeks ago and I think the cycle is still going on and won't really start drying up until early spring, so why would reaching out now be seen as a desperate move because of lack of interest? Two IIs were from T20 and one was from a similarly ranked school as the one I am now interested in (T50? I don't know). But even if I do magically get an A from any of these places in the next day or two, I still would feel weird to mention it. Won't deans be annoyed if I say, "I got into HARVARD, but I will still choose you". If it were me who received that email, I would say Harvard was lucky to have upupandaway and then put the app in the reject pile... but is that just me?

You're right, it is harsh to be snubbed for not applying ED. But, you were personally invited by the dean to do so and refused, and then refused to take a meeting to discuss it, so here you are. Back then it was not your 1,000% first choice. It is what it is.

You're also right about reaching out now not being a sign a desperation. If it wasn't clear before, other than not taking the meeting, I would have done exactly what you did, and don't think you should second guess it or think you have anything to explain or apologize for. The thing is, on the other side of the wall, the perception very well might be that you were offered a guaranteed A and blew it off because you didn't want to commit, so now they don't want to be your backup. And this is even though your situation might have changed and you might be ready to commit now.

Would you turn down both T20s if you had As from them today? If not, what they is doing is really not out of line. The double edged sword of getting all of that attention from the dean put you here. Most people don't have to deal with that. You do. It's totally unfair, but it's where you find yourself.

By the way, that thing with Harvard is exactly what some people do in the spring when they are trying to get off a WL at a lower ranked school they'd rather attend, for whatever reason. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You're right about it being way too early to do now, here.

You are just wondering why you are being ghosted, after receiving so much attention in the summer. We told you why. Maybe it's irreparable, maybe not, and maybe it's just a coincidence. No way to know unless you reach out.

 

[gyngyn]

My dear members, there is always a better way to voice displeasure than name-calling.
A post has been edited for this reason.

 

[upupandaway2022]

You're right, it is harsh to be snubbed for not applying ED. But, you were personally invited by the dean to do so and refused, and then refused to take a meeting to discuss it, so here you are. Back then it was not your 1,000% first choice. It is what it is.

You're also right about reaching out now not being a sign a desperation. If it wasn't clear before, other than not taking the meeting, I would have done exactly what you did, and don't think you should second guess it or think you have anything to explain or apologize for. The thing is, on the other side of the wall, the perception very well might be that you were offered a guaranteed A and blew it off because you didn't want to commit, so now they don't want to be your backup. And this is even though your situation might have changed and you might be ready to commit now.

Would you turn down both T20s if you had As from them today? If not, what they is doing is really not out of line. The double edged sword of getting all of that attention from the dean put you here. Most people don't have to deal with that. You do. It's totally unfair, but it's where you find yourself.

By the way, that thing with Harvard is exactly what some people do in the spring when they are trying to get off a WL at a lower ranked school they'd rather attend, for whatever reason. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You're right about it being way too early to do now, here.

You are just wondering why you are being ghosted, after receiving so much attention in the summer. We told you why. Maybe it's irreparable, maybe not, and maybe it's just a coincidence. No way to know unless you reach out.

Thanks KnightDoc.. no, not wondering why I have been ghosted. More wondering, if I should reach out to her again or if that is a terrible idea. I think the general consensus I have gotten from this thread is that it is ok to reach out but I should probably be prepared to accept the fact that I might have damaged any relationship and may not get anymore traction from the school... Which makes sense.

As for the T20s, that's a great question! I really liked the schools but I know my chances post-II there are only about 30-50% so hard to be THAT excited about it. My partner was going on and on about the one law school because they loved the people there. It was not even necessarily the school they were most excited about pre-interview but now it is top of the list because of how amazing the people/interactions were. I think I would think similarly about med schools. What I have been feeling guilty about for a few months (and unfortunately what people here have also pointed out) is that the dean was beyond nice to me but I had to turn down a meeting, and would I even get that type of mentorship in other schools? If it is a place that both my partner and I love, and the school was so thoughtful to give me so much of time even before I was an applicant, the school is quite high on my list..

 

[Dral]

Thank you dral, and again, it is becoming clear from a lot of other commenters here that I made a big miscalculation and should have just met with the dean. But just as you said above, I did not want to waste any more of their time when I could not apply ED, and so I said that while I really appreciated the invitation, I couldn't go through with it because of the situation with my partner. I checked my past emails to make sure and I apologized 5 times over 2 emails, so i really hope it did not come off as rude.. But as Moko and Knightdoc and others have posted above, that was a risk I took and even good intentions could come off wrong over email. I probably should have posted on sdn months ago before sending the email, rather than now with a follow-up dilemma.

As to why the dean was so nice to me, I really don't know. Definitely not nepotism or even diversity (I'm White), so I am really stumped. Seems like she is just an amazing dean who saw something in me, and wanted to help? All reasons I would love to go the school even more, but I guess we will see what happens....

I think you're doing the best you can with what happened. It's not necessarily a bad thing really and as far as I can tell, you have not necessarily misstepped in the process. It really is a unique situation.

I think how you have handled it so far is the best that you could be doing.

I didn't read all the responses here for details, but if you haven't contacted her yet again, it would help by sending something to the effect:

"Again, than you so very much for your help. This is a difficult process and having your help has been invaluable, and I'd like to express just how appreciative I am of you taking time out of busy and stressful schedule to advise/mentor me.

As I had mentioned before, my SO is having some good prospects in the area of your school. I wish their timeline would have been different so I could have gone through the ED process as you suggested. As I'm sure you know, this process is tough coordinating with one person, but adding in a significant other going through a similar process makes it even tougher! However, I am hopeful that I will have the opportunity to interview at your school for the regular decision process.

Thank you again for all your help. I very much appreciate it!"


Don't use that verbatim, but I would suggest something similar. If you already sent something, I would just leave things as is for now. Reinforcing how thankful you are vs becoming a bit of a bother can be walking a fine line depending on the persons involved.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Thanks KnightDoc.. no, not wondering why I have been ghosted. More wondering, if I should reach out to her again or if that is a terrible idea. I think the general consensus I have gotten from this thread is that it is ok to reach out but I should probably be prepared to accept the fact that I might have damaged any relationship and may not get anymore traction from the school... Which makes sense.

As for the T20s, that's a great question! I really liked the schools but I know my chances post-II there are only about 30-50% so hard to be THAT excited about it. My partner was going on and on about the one law school because they loved the people there. It was not even necessarily the school they were most excited about pre-interview but now it is top of the list because of how amazing the people/interactions were. I think I would think similarly about med schools. What I have been feeling guilty about for a few months (and unfortunately what people here have also pointed out) is that the dean was beyond nice to me but I had to turn down a meeting, and would I even get that type of mentorship in other schools? If it is a place that both my partner and I love, and the school was so thoughtful to give me so much of time even before I was an applicant, the school is quite high on my list..

Might as well give it a shot. Don’t have anything to lose by sending an email.

 

[upupandaway2022]

I think you're doing the best you can with what happened. It's not necessarily a bad thing really and as far as I can tell, you have not necessarily misstepped in the process. It really is a unique situation.

I think how you have handled it so far is the best that you could be doing.

I didn't read all the responses here for details, but if you haven't contacted her yet again, it would help by sending something to the effect:

"Again, than you so very much for your help. This is a difficult process and having your help has been invaluable, and I'd like to express just how appreciative I am of you taking time out of busy and stressful schedule to advise/mentor me.

As I had mentioned before, my SO is having some good prospects in the area of your school. I wish their timeline would have been different so I could have gone through the ED process as you suggested. As I'm sure you know, this process is tough coordinating with one person, but adding in a significant other going through a similar process makes it even tougher! However, I am hopeful that I will have the opportunity to interview at your school for the regular decision process.

Thank you again for all your help. I very much appreciate it!"


Don't use that verbatim, but I would suggest something similar. If you already sent something, I would just leave things as is for now. Reinforcing how thankful you are vs becoming a bit of a bother can be walking a fine line depending on the persons involved.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, Dral!! I really do appreciate your reply, and the sample script for my email to the dean. Thank you, thank you!

Fingers crossed it is not too late for me here

I will keep everyone posted as to what happens

 

[Detailsmatter]

sorry this happened OP and hope it ends up working out the best way it can for you and your SO. However this thread should be a word of caution for everyone trying to get into medicine. Medicine is a small field that gets smaller and smaller as your career progresses (med school --> residency --> fellowship --> attending life) and you always want to make sure every interaction you have is professional and that you never burn any bridges. If you ever have the slightest doubt about something coming off the wrong way ask friends about it or post on here about it because word can always get around and you never know what the future holds. Word of mouth will impact your career, for better or worse, way more than any other accomplishments you may have

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks KnightDoc.. no, not wondering why I have been ghosted. More wondering, if I should reach out to her again or if that is a terrible idea. I think the general consensus I have gotten from this thread is that it is ok to reach out but I should probably be prepared to accept the fact that I might have damaged any relationship and may not get anymore traction from the school... Which makes sense.

As for the T20s, that's a great question! I really liked the schools but I know my chances post-II there are only about 30-50% so hard to be THAT excited about it. My partner was going on and on about the one law school because they loved the people there. It was not even necessarily the school they were most excited about pre-interview but now it is top of the list because of how amazing the people/interactions were. I think I would think similarly about med schools. What I have been feeling guilty about for a few months (and unfortunately what people here have also pointed out) is that the dean was beyond nice to me but I had to turn down a meeting, and would I even get that type of mentorship in other schools? If it is a place that both my partner and I love, and the school was so thoughtful to give me so much of time even before I was an applicant, the school is quite high on my list..

I meant it in the best possible way. I meant that you should definitely reach out, after being ghosted, after receiving so much attention before. I meant that should be part of your e-mail -- "I was wondering why I haven't heard from the school, yada yada yada..."

By the way, I totally get where you are coming from regarding the T20s. I feel the same way. THAT's why you want to be careful about professing undying devotion at this stage of the cycle. Adcoms get burned by this all the time, and have therefore begun to tune out LOIs. You don't want to be part of the problem if, at the end of the day, a T20 med school would trump your SO's #1 law school.

Hindsight is 20/20, but, if you had asked before, the advice probably would have been to take the meeting, reiterate how much you love the school and appreciate everything the dean has done for you, but say that you couldn't commit until you knew what was going to happen with your partner. You either would have been told "great, we look forward to receiving your application," or "sorry to hear that, our RD pool is crazy competitive which is why I was hoping you'd apply ED because I really want to see you here." Either way, you'd know where you stand, and why, versus just having us all guess now.

 

[upupandaway2022]

sorry this happened OP and hope it ends up working out the best way it can for you and your SO. However this thread should be a word of caution for everyone trying to get into medicine. Medicine is a small field that gets smaller and smaller as your career progresses (med school --> residency --> fellowship --> attending life) and you always want to make sure every interaction you have is professional and that you never burn any bridges. If you ever have the slightest doubt about something coming off the wrong way ask friends about it or post on here about it because word can always get around and you never know what the future holds. Word of mouth will impact your career, for better or worse, way more than any other accomplishments you may have

Honestly, the one good thing I can think that could come about from this whole incident is what you just said... this thread now eternalized on SDN so others could search and make sure to heed the advice and always take a meeting!

Thank you @Detailsmatter for the kind words, and advice

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I meant it in the best possible way. I meant that you should definitely reach out, after being ghosted, after receiving so much attention before. I meant that should be part of your e-mail -- "I was wondering why I haven't heard from the school, yada yada yada..."

By the way, I totally get where you are coming from regarding the T20s. I feel the same way. THAT's why you want to be careful about professing undying devotion at this stage of the cycle. Adcoms get burned by this all the time, and have therefore begun to tune out LOIs. You don't want to be part of the problem if, at the end of the day, a T20 med school would trump your SO's #1 law school.

Hindsight is 20/20, but, if you had asked before, the advice probably would have been to take the meeting, reiterate how much you love the school and appreciate everything the dean has done for you, but say that you couldn't commit until you knew what was going to happen with your partner. You either would have been told "great, we look forward to receiving your application," or "sorry to hear that, our RD pool is crazy competitive which is why I was hoping you'd apply ED because I really want to see you here." Either way, you'd know where you stand, and why, versus just having us all guess now.

I agree with reaching out but would advise against saying the bold. As somebody who has had some success after reaching out, you want to put all the “blame” squarely on yourself. Saying, “I was wondering why I haven’t heard from you,” comes across as somewhat rude/entitled

 

[YCAGA]

Haven't read the novel-length replies and ignoring the name calling in this thread...in response to the OP and their original post:

Let's be clear, a Dean of Admissions at a medical school you had not even been accepted yet asked you to meet with them and you declined. That is one of the most boneheaded things I have heard in awhile. No changing it now, but in the future when someone who can potentially make or break your career asks to have a quick chat...take the 5 minutes and do it. Not trying to bust your balls too hard (can I say that on SDN? lol), but you need some tough love I think.

 

[upupandaway2022]

I meant it in the best possible way. I meant that you should definitely reach out, after being ghosted, after receiving so much attention before. I meant that should be part of your e-mail -- "I was wondering why I haven't heard from the school, yada yada yada..."

By the way, I totally get where you are coming from regarding the T20s. I feel the same way. THAT's why you want to be careful about professing undying devotion at this stage of the cycle. Adcoms get burned by this all the time, and have therefore begun to tune out LOIs. You don't want to be part of the problem if, at the end of the day, a T20 med school would trump your SO's #1 law school.

Hindsight is 20/20, but, if you had asked before, the advice probably would have been to take the meeting, reiterate how much you love the school and appreciate everything the dean has done for you, but say that you couldn't commit until you knew what was going to happen with your partner. You either would have been told "great, we look forward to receiving your application," or "sorry to hear that, our RD pool is crazy competitive which is why I was hoping you'd apply ED because I really want to see you here." Either way, you'd know where you stand, and why, versus just having us all guess now.

Thank you KnightDoc... yes, I completely agree with what you said, but it is what it is now. I've reached out to the dean and am hoping for the best

Oh also, good luck to you on your own cycle, hope it is going great!

 

[YCAGA]

I know that if I was guaranteed an acceptance somewhere, I would take it even if it meant having to breakup with my gf via text and never seeing her again. wouldn’t even take a minute to think about it.

I agree with reaching out but would advise against saying the bold. As somebody who has had some success after reaching out, you want to put all the “blame” squarely on yourself. Saying, “I was wondering why I haven’t heard from you,” comes across as somewhat rude/entitled

I am getting whiplash from the personality disorder-level posts one day and then fairly reasonable interpersonal advice the next day.

 

[upupandaway2022]

Haven't read the novel-length replies and ignoring the name calling in this thread...in response to the OP and their original post:

Let's be clear, a Dean of Admissions at a medical school you had not even been accepted yet asked you to meet with them and you declined. That is one of the most boneheaded things I have heard in awhile. No changing it now, but in the future when someone who can potentially make or break your career asks to have a quick chat...take the 5 minutes and do it. Not trying to bust your balls too hard (can I say that on SDN? lol), but you need some tough love I think.

Hello, thanks for your reply. I guess the only reasoning I had was that I did not want to waste her time for a courtesy call. I thought it would somehow seem worse if I spoke to the dean for half an hour, listened to her enthusiastically talk about the school and how I would be great for ED and then continue to decline it.. I will admit, the thought of having to say no to her face also scared me.. so instead I thanked her profusely over email (and apologized), explained why I could not apply ED, and then reiterated my interest for regular decisions...

I do understand what you and others are saying here, but just wanted to say that I did not mean to be rude to the dean, and hopefully it was not taken that way....

 

[upupandaway2022]

I agree with reaching out but would advise against saying the bold. As somebody who has had some success after reaching out, you want to put all the “blame” squarely on yourself. Saying, “I was wondering why I haven’t heard from you,” comes across as somewhat rude/entitled

Yes, I was ultimately more apologetic in my own reply...

 

[YCAGA]

Hello, thanks for your reply. I guess the only reasoning I had was that I did not want to waste her time for a courtesy call. I thought it would somehow seem worse if I spoke to the dean for half an hour, listened to her enthusiastically talk about the school and how I would be great for ED and then continue to decline it.. I will admit, the thought of having to say no to her face also scared me.. so instead I thanked her profusely over email (and apologized), explained why I could not apply ED, and then reiterated my interest for regular decisions...

I do understand what you and others are saying here, but just wanted to say that I did not mean to be rude to the dean, and hopefully it was not taken that way....

I understand how you felt and you did a good job articulating your thought-process. I am just saying that if you cut away the second guessing and over thinking, you turned down a 1-on-1 conversation with a medical school dean at a school that clearly wanted you. That decision is insanity unless the school is run by literal war criminals or something.

I am an over-thinker myself so I understand your strife. The upside is that if a dean wanted you to apply ED before they even saw your primary app, you obviously have a lot going for you and I think you will get in somewhere.

 

[upupandaway2022]

I understand how you felt and you did a good job articulating your thought-process. I am just saying that if you cut away the second guessing and over thinking, you turned down a 1-on-1 conversation with a medical school dean at a school that clearly wanted you. That decision is insanity unless the school is run by literal war criminals or something.

I am an over-thinker myself so I understand your strife. The upside is that if a dean wanted you to apply ED before they even saw your primary app, you obviously have a lot going for you and I think you will get in somewhere.

Yes, the big take away from the thread was that this was a pretty bad idea. Thank you for the advice, I do hope that it didn't completely end things for me at the school. And also, you are absolutely right! I guess my tendencies for over thinking and over explaining live on in this thread. I can't believe I wasted weeks trying to answer a "greatest weakness" secondary question, haha. As knightdoc mentioned above, hindsight and 20/20

 

[KnightDoc]

I agree with reaching out but would advise against saying the bold. As somebody who has had some success after reaching out, you want to put all the “blame” squarely on yourself. Saying, “I was wondering why I haven’t heard from you,” comes across as somewhat rude/entitled

Okay, but OTOH, is it unreasonable to have an expectation after all of the interaction over the summer? If so, why do anything at all other than send the update letter we all send?

 

[upupandaway2022]

Okay, but OTOH, is it unreasonable to have an expectation after all of the interaction over the summer? If so, why do anything at all other than send the update letter we all send?

Honestly though, I didn't have many expectations even after putting my app in.. I hoped I would get an II eventually, but all the threads here about order of review and priority and everything else... I was thinking that it may even be possible that my app has not have even been reviewed yet since the school is known to give out IIs all the way up til early spring

If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that because I had a great interaction with the dean, that might have been cause for bumping up my app in priority, so it is essentially "ghosting" to have not heard back by November. Is that really how it works? (this thread is giving me all the feels today)

 

[candbgirl]

Why are you the one in the relationship that is sacrificing opportunities for acceptances. Law School is way easier to get in to. To spend six months developing a very positive relationship with this Dean and then abruptly cut it off was strange to say the least. I can see where the Dean was rather taken aback. There are hundreds of applicants who would give anything to have had those offers. And what exactly are you going to say if your partner isn’t accepted to the assumed school? Are you going to stand the Dean up again? Did you apply to other schools in this area? Have you heard from them? Perhaps you should focus on those schools and wait for your partner to receive an acceptance.

 

[candbgirl]

Honestly though, I didn't have many expectations even after putting my app in.. I hoped I would get an II eventually, but all the threads here about order of review and priority and everything else... I was thinking that it may even be possible that my app has not have even been reviewed yet since the school is known to give out IIs all the way up til early spring

If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that because I had a great interaction with the dean, that might have been cause for bumping up my app in priority, so it is essentially "ghosting" to have not heard back by November. Is that really how it works? (this thread is giving me all the feels today)

I don’t know what @KnightDoc meant, but I doubt the Dean even became involved after you refusing two opportunities to meet with her. Your application was received, filedand reviewed just like everyone else’s. No preferential treatment, no fast track, no ED. Your best chance was an invitation from the Dean for ED and you refused that one. Now you wait just like thousands of other applicants. I’m thinking the Dean is going to think, he wants help now but… And nobody can say if you are being ghosted because I don’t think many SDNers have a six month mentoring relationship with a med School Dean preapplication.