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Euro-med info

Discussion in 'General International Discussion' started by docteur, Feb 8, 2002.

  1. docteur

    docteur Junior Member

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    Feb 2, 2002
    organ
    Anyone know anything about european medicine or med shcools? I'm expatriating to France for awhile and don't know if I should get my doctorate somewhere in Euro-ville. The international scene is appealing to me.
    Any good links to the schools?
    Merci.

    <img border="0" alt="[Pissy]" title="" src="graemlins/pissy.gif" /> -I just wanted to see this one again.
     
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  3. laumans

    laumans New Member

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    Nov 6, 2001
    Cher M Docteur,

    I, a German citizen, actually studied at several schools in Germany and France (Marburg, Berlin West FU, Paris V, Nice).

    First at all: you can?t expect from a European University what you are used from in the states.

    According to the information I received from my colleagues in the states I can say that there seems to be much more dedication among the American professors to actually train their students. In European schools, a med school student in a rotation often has a feeling of being a rather dusturbing factor.

    Med schools in Germany and France both take 6 years but they also already contain what you call pre-med.

    Germany puts an emphasis on academic content. A typical German med student at the end of his studies knows a lot about very rare deaseases but he doesn?t know how to treat a banal cold. Nor does he have a lot of experience in how to examine patients, every-day ward procedures etc. We are supposed to obtain the practical knowledge after school.

    It is quite the contrary in France: here the emphasis lies on the practical experience. thus, you have to spent quite some time on the various wards. The clinical part rudimentary resembles US rotations. Yet, we are speaking about France. There are classes scheduled during your rotations. But what if the professor just doesn?t show up ?
    One example: i just did a 2 month rotation in the pediatrics ER in Nice. There supposedly were classes held by our professors twice a week (during 8 weeks of rotation). In fact, professors showed up for class TWICE all together. In the states these professors would get fired. Here they get promotions. There is no system of student evaluation established yet.

    After all, I have to say that you can evade the downside aspects of European schools by carefully choosing your schools and rotations. I, for example, did my basic science classes (that stuff you have to study for the USMLE I) in Germany and received a good training. The clinical years I spent in France and only accidently I ended up in a badly organised rotation like the one mentioned above.
    For a research year in medical inormatics I returned to Berlin (French people just discovered that there is such a thing like the internet).

    There are exceptions; two schools are supposed to be actually excellent:

    Two private med schools in Western Europe:
    1. Maastricht in the Netherlands and
    2. Witten-Herdecke in Germany
    The first one actually does classes in English, as far I know. My friend goes to the same university (he is obtaining a MBA, though). He says that his school is the closest to US standards you can find in Europe.

    One last thing you have to consider:

    You will have litterally no debt after graduation.

    Hope this all isn?t too confusing. If you desire more information, don?t hesitate to contact me !

    Au revoir,

    Marius
     
  4. UAB

    UAB Member 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 22, 2002
    Dear Docteur:

    I?m a medical student in Spain.
    Our system is similar to the german one, with a lot of academics, and the clinical is more like an observership with little hands on.
    I?ve done elective rotations in US and UK, and they are very different, in US the medical students know a lot of practical things, but I don?t think they have such deep knowledge as the more academic medical schools like Germany, UK or Spain.
    I would say that France and Spain have one of the best public health systems in the world ( I think they have the first and second position ).
    In Spain the medical degree is 6 years without pre-med education, but is extremely difficult accede to medicine, because all medical schools are public so the only requirement are your scores not your budget.
    But the hardest thing is get a residency spot, after the medical school you have 8-9 months to prepare to an exam called MIR, in this exam you get a score, this score is the 75% of your last score and your medical grades the other 25 %.
    Finally you have a score and this give you a number between 1 to 10000, 10000 is the number of people applying, so the number 1 choose whatever he/she wants and so.
    The problem that there are only 4500 residency positions, so If you don?t get a spot you have to take again the exam called MIR......JUST TERRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I prefer the amkerican way....just easier.
     
  5. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler 7+ Year Member

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    Jan 23, 2002
    Up North
    As for Scandinavia.......

    Much like Germany, I think (from what Laumans wrote). But basically..... You won't ever get into a school here. I'm not saying we have better schools (we definitely don't) but you won't get in.

    My wife is American. And after jumping through flaming hoops and doign backflips for 5 years trying to get accepted somewhere...... Well, I would just go to a place where
     
  6. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler 7+ Year Member

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    Jan 23, 2002
    Up North
    (Hm, don't know what happened there)

    ......GO
     
  7. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler 7+ Year Member

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    Jan 23, 2002
    Up North
    (Hm, don't know what happened there)

    Go to a country where they teach in English. I've heard Holland is a good place for that.

    Good luck
     
  8. Cuts

    Cuts Member 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 1, 2002
    Chicago, IL
    Don't do it. Having started med school in Hungary and having just recently transferred to a Caribbean school, I speak from experience. Did I enjoy it? Hell yes... European women (the best by the way), cheap EVERYTHING, Euro-raving, etc... hell yes I enjoyed it. Am I paying the price now? Yes I am. Stay in the States.
     
  9. Peeshee

    Peeshee Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Mar 16, 2000
    I thought that you had to learn Dutch for Maastricht University in Holland....I know some of their classes are in English, but in their bulletin, it says Dutch is a requirement...anyone have different info.?
     
  10. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler 7+ Year Member

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    Jan 23, 2002
    Up North
    I started the whole Holland thing. Maybe I was completely wrong. Over here, they kind of have the reputation of being really international. But I know absolutely nothing about Dutch Med Schools.

    My honest opinion, actually, is that they teach in Dutch.

    Sorry about that.
     
  11. punky

    punky Junior Member

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    Apr 27, 2002
    Guys, I am seriously thinking about practicing medicine in Germany. I am an American studying at an American medical school. How difficult is it? Is there any country out there where American licensure is automatically accepted as the country's licensure? Thanks.
     
  12. ApacheIndian

    ApacheIndian philomath 10+ Year Member

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    Apr 3, 2002
    Earth
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by punky:
    <strong>Guys, I am seriously thinking about practicing medicine in Germany. I am an American studying at an American medical school.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why?
     
  13. punky

    punky Junior Member

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    Apr 27, 2002
    The fiance is German. And I love German culture. Please post advice.
     
  14. halothane

    halothane Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 18, 2002
    Hey Iam an IMG from India currently in residency in the US. I know a guy( senior) from my medical school who works as a cardiac surgeon in Germany. He likes it and is paid quite well....but told me that the US is certainly a much much better deal. He says sometimes German grads are unemployed themselves. Also this was confirmed by 2 german grads I met when I still in school in India....they had come to do some kinda rotation. So staying put in the US is a good idea. The gulf nations pay an arm and a leg for a US trained physician....and its tax free, thats one place I know that gives a lot of value for US degrees.
     
  15. UAB

    UAB Member 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 22, 2002
    Dear Punky:

    Germany is a very good choice, not only it?s a wonderful country also they have among the most advanced hospitals in the world.
    I would recommend you do your residency in US, because It will be very easy to get being american, and after this try to know if you can practice in germany, but I think it depends in which specialty you are going to ( you can find info in internet ).
    I think it works like in Spain, and other european countries, so maybe it can bet almost impossible get a residency position there because:
    1- Germany has to recognize your MD degree, and like it is just 4 years ( even after undergraduated ), and in Germany is 6, it can be difficult.
    2- You will need to pass the exams to get a residency position, that they are extremely competitive. Also you must speak german.

    I think it is easier do your residency in US and go to Germany, even get information first because maybe you can?t practice there in your specialty, and sometimes can be difficult.
    If I get my MD degree in Spain and I do my residency in US, and I want to return to my country I can have a lot of problems to practice, even I?m spaniard, and If you are lucky you only need to pass an exam to get your specialty recognized.
     
  16. BellKicker

    BellKicker Twisted Miler 7+ Year Member

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    Jan 23, 2002
    Up North
    I can only relay what I've heard about Germany:

    Very competitive system. Like half of all residents get divorces or kill their neighbors.

    We have many German doctors here (in Denmark) and I've always been told that's because there's a shortage of positions.

    Once you're in, though, i believe you're set for life. I've heard they make big bucks down there. Or rather, I've seen the BMWs to prove it.

    I agree with JGDLB that doing at least part of your residency in the US would be smart. I don't know if you have to start over when you move. I think you'd have to start over here (again, in Denmark).

    I take it you speak German?
     

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