Ever wonder why PA get more respect than us?

[moissanite69]

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Disclaimer: This thread is not intended to start a war between PA vs PharmD.

As I was looking for a patient's chart to write a SOAP note, an RN said, "the doctor has it". I glanced over at the desk. It was a PA dictating H/P. I've noticed several things:

1. Why do RNs often call PA "Dr"....when they are not.
2. Why do RNs often get "scared" of PA while they see pharmacists (Pharm.D) at the same level...or even worse treat us like s***?
3. Why RNs don't mind picking up "fights" (arguments) with pharmacist (or pharmacy personnel), when they don't even dare to open their mouth to say anything with PA?

The funny thing is we have gone to school long enough to earn a Pharm.D and nobody cares or gives us the respect we deserve...while some PA from community college get better respect than us.😕 Horrible trend now. This trend is increasing, unfortunately.

 

[PharmaTope]

Disclaimer: This thread is not intended to start a war between PA vs PharmD.

As I was looking for a patient's chart to write a SOAP note, an RN said, "the doctor has it". I glanced over at the desk. It was a PA dictating H/P. I've noticed several things:

1. Why do RNs often call PA "Dr"....when they are not.
2. Why do RNs often get "scared" of PA while they see pharmacists (Pharm.D) at the same level...or even worse treat us like s***?
3. Why RNs don't mind picking up "fights" (arguments) with pharmacist (or pharmacy personnel), when they don't even dare to open their mouth to say anything with PA?

The funny thing is we have gone to school long enough to earn a Pharm.D and nobody cares or gives us the respect we deserve...while some PA from community college get better respect than us.😕 Horrible trend now. This trend is increasing, unfortunately.

end /rant

i think it depends where you are. respect is earned not given.

also, PA dont just go to community college. they do at least 6 yrs for the degree THESE DAYS. i know it was different in the past.

i will say this, people do **** on pharmacy a lot but it depends where you are. careful though, a lot of the general public think pharmacist are community college educated

 

[moissanite69]

end /rant

i think it depends where you are. respect is earned not given.

also, PA dont just go to community college. they do at least 6 yrs for the degree THESE DAYS. i know it was different in the past.

i will say this, people do **** on pharmacy a lot but it depends where you are. careful though, a lot of the general public think pharmacist are community college educated

The majority of PA are 6 yr programs. However, programs from community colleges are still there:

http://www.rcc.edu/academicprograms/physicianassistant/

http://www.sjvc.edu/program/Physician_Assistant/

 

[owlegrad]

Beg the question much?

 

[pharm B]

Disclaimer: This thread is not intended to start a war between PA vs PharmD.

As I was looking for a patient's chart to write a SOAP note, an RN said, "the doctor has it". I glanced over at the desk. It was a PA dictating H/P. I've noticed several things:

1. Why do RNs often call PA "Dr"....when they are not.

Because they generalize, just like you're generalizing by asking why RNs call PA's "doctor." Are LVNs and CNAs (... etc) excluded from this conversation?

Most likely that person referred to the PA as "doctor" because the PA provides direct patient care. Pharmacy, in its clinical form, is usually more auxiliary in purpose than it is direct.

2. Why do RNs often get "scared" of PA while they see pharmacists (Pharm.D) at the same level...or even worse treat us like s***?

As said above, respect has to be earned.

3. Why RNs don't mind picking up "fights" (arguments) with pharmacist (or pharmacy personnel), when they don't even dare to open their mouth to say anything with PA?

Again, this is a huge generalization. I've seen people from x department pick a fight with y department, and it didn't matter what degree or job the persons involved held.

The funny thing is we have gone to school long enough to earn a Pharm.D and nobody cares or gives us the respect we deserve...while some PA from community college get better respect than us.😕 Horrible trend now. This trend is increasing, unfortunately.

All of this because a nurse accidentally referred to a PA as a doctor? In a clinical setting, docs provide direct patient care. Pharmacists (usually) don't have that same level of involvement, so of course we won't be seen that way. Better to be part of the team than to walk around with a cloud over your heard because no one calls you "doctor."

 

[iFarm]

PAs get more respect than us?!?!

😴

 

[apteryx]

who the **** cares?

I think they should start teaching self-esteem 101 in school. The class consists of being berated and laughed at for 50 minutes at a time. Maybe that would help all of these mopey MD-wannabe's that make these topics.

I'm not trying to be a TOTAL ****, OP. I'm trying to help you realize that the moment you stop caring about what so-and-so thinks of you or your personal achievements, you'll instantly not have to worry about ridiculous things like this. Life gives us enough problems; let's not make more for ourselves.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Disclaimer: This thread is not intended to start a war between PA vs PharmD.

Repost

I'm trying to help you realize that the moment you stop caring about what so-and-so thinks of you or your personal achievements, you'll instantly not have to worry about ridiculous things like this.

/end thread

 

[moissanite69]

Because they generalize, just like you're generalizing by asking why RNs call PA's "doctor." Are LVNs and CNAs (... etc) excluded from this conversation?

Most likely that person referred to the PA as "doctor" because the PA provides direct patient care. Pharmacy, in its clinical form, is usually more auxiliary in purpose than it is direct.


As said above, respect has to be earned.


Again, this is a huge generalization. I've seen people from x department pick a fight with y department, and it didn't matter what degree or job the persons involved held.


All of this because a nurse accidentally referred to a PA as a doctor? In a clinical setting, docs provide direct patient care. Pharmacists (usually) don't have that same level of involvement, so of course we won't be seen that way. Better to be part of the team than to walk around with a cloud over your heard because no one calls you "doctor."

Oh great...a reply from a student. I am not genralizing anyone. I am saying RNs , but this also is true for other nursing staff too, such as LVNs, nurse secrectaries, and so on. The way they treat PA/NP is much better than us, pharmacists.

I agree respect is earned. However, it doesn't matter what you do...the level of respect isn't gonna be the same. They think of pharmacists as lower level. How many times have you seen nursing staff call a pharmacist "dude", or "hey man"...and they dare not to use that tone to a PA.

I won't blame you because you are still a student. You are still reading books...You will understand this more once you are out there practicing. Don't say "be a healthcare team member..." blah blah blah....That's only taught in the book. In hospital setting, it's very political. No body gives a rat azz about collaborating and shiet*. They only see you as a drug dispenser and they want it quick!

As an example , as soon as I called up the floor to clarify a medication error (wrong strength, for example), the nurse secrectary said "What do you want?". Then when I made round later , the same nurse secrectary called the PA to clarify a lab order, "I am so sorry to bother you, but you ordered an blah blah blah lab for this patient..did you want it STAT or routine?" After clarification, she also added, "Again, so sorry to bother you..."

Do you see the difference?

 

[pharm B]

Oh great...a reply from a student. I am not genralizing anyone. I am saying RNs , but this also is true for other nursing staff too, such as LVNs, nurse secrectaries, and so on. The way they treat PA/NP is much better than us, pharmacists.

I agree respect is earned. However, it doesn't matter what you do...the level of respect isn't gonna be the same. They think of pharmacists as lower level. How many times have you seen nursing staff call a pharmacist "dude", or "hey man"...and they dare not to use that tone to a PA.

I won't blame you because you are still a student. You are still reading books...You will understand this more once you are out there practicing. Don't say "be a healthcare team member..." blah blah blah....That's only taught in the book. In hospital setting, it's very political. No body gives a rat azz about collaborating and shiet*. They only see you as a drug dispenser and they want it quick!

As an example , as soon as I called up the floor to clarify a medication error (wrong strength, for example), the nurse secrectary said "What do you want?". Then when I made round later , the same nurse secrectary called the PA to clarify a lab order, "I am so sorry to bother you, but you ordered an blah blah blah lab for this patient..did you want it STAT or routine?" After clarification, she also added, "Again, so sorry to bother you..."

Do you see the difference?

I'm sorry you are frustrated, but I can understand why you would be.

(I learned that in a book somewhere)

 

[apteryx]

Oh great...a reply from a student.

lol more entitlement attitude. just because the title says "pharmacy student" doesn't mean I'm a 20-year-old with no healthcare experience. I don't know why you bothered posting this, unless you just wanted more people to bitch with. I'm going to go with that. If you tried to actually ascertain something from my post, you'd realize I never said that nurses don't give attitudes to pharmacists. I just said to not care...which you obviously don't want to let go of anytime soon, so I see my work is done here.

::flies off to go stir up more trouble::

 

[lauradiddle]

Oh great...a reply from a student. I am not genralizing anyone. I am saying RNs , but this also is true for other nursing staff too, such as LVNs, nurse secrectaries, and so on. The way they treat PA/NP is much better than us, pharmacists.

I agree respect is earned. However, it doesn't matter what you do...the level of respect isn't gonna be the same. They think of pharmacists as lower level. How many times have you seen nursing staff call a pharmacist "dude", or "hey man"...and they dare not to use that tone to a PA.

I won't blame you because you are still a student. You are still reading books...You will understand this more once you are out there practicing. Don't say "be a healthcare team member..." blah blah blah....That's only taught in the book. In hospital setting, it's very political. No body gives a rat azz about collaborating and shiet*. They only see you as a drug dispenser and they want it quick!

As an example , as soon as I called up the floor to clarify a medication error (wrong strength, for example), the nurse secrectary said "What do you want?". Then when I made round later , the same nurse secrectary called the PA to clarify a lab order, "I am so sorry to bother you, but you ordered an blah blah blah lab for this patient..did you want it STAT or routine?" After clarification, she also added, "Again, so sorry to bother you..."

Do you see the difference?

You know, before I became a pharmacy student and just read books, I worked in a hospital, so I do know how hospital politics works, and I still agree with pharm B. Respect has to be earned, and pharmacists are just as capable of getting that respect from everyone involved in the healthcare team. Where I used to work, nurses treat the pharmacists the way you say they only treat the PAs. They don't look at them as just drug dispensers.

I am a student though, so I hope you don't look down on my opinion, too. Frankly, if you go around treating people the same way you treated pharm B, I could understand why the nurses have a different tone with you.

 

[moissanite69]

lol more entitlement attitude. just because the title says "pharmacy student" doesn't mean I'm a 20-year-old with no healthcare experience. I don't know why you bothered posting this, unless you just wanted more people to bitch with. I'm going to go with that. If you tried to actually ascertain something from my post, you'd realize I never said that nurses don't give attitudes to pharmacists. I just said to not care...which you obviously don't want to let go of anytime soon, so I see my work is done here.

::flies off to go stir up more trouble::

The main issue here is nurses/staff don't ever dare to give attitudes to PA/MD...while they do that to pharmacists. So tell me who they respect more? You can say " I don't care about respect". Whatever, you know you lie. I don't want them to treat me like king. But at least be fair and equal. It is not the case here...

 

[All4MyDaughter]

This thread IS in fact FULL of generalizations.

Things like:

"Nurses treat pharmacists like crap"

and

"Nurses treat PAs like gods"

and

"We get no respect"

and

"PAs went to community college"

and

"Students have no experience and therefore no valid opinions"

ARE generalizations. And that's silly.

 

[moissanite69]

This thread IS in fact FULL of generalizations.

Things like:

"Nurses treat pharmacists like crap"

and

"Nurses treat PAs like gods"

and

"We get no respect"

and

"PAs went to community college"

and

"Students have no experience and therefore no valid opinions"

ARE generalizations. And that's silly.

It's all generalization...but sadly, it's true.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

It's all generalization...but sadly, it's true.

No. You took one situation that you observed and generalized it to every situation. It's not universally true.

I've personally observed ICU nurses give the attending MD huge amounts of attitude over sedation/pain control/wound care stuff/etc. The ICU pharmacist where I worked was universally loved by the all the nurses, techs, etc. But I won't generalize that to any larger context.

 

[moissanite69]

No. You took one situation that you observed and generalized it to every situation. It's not universally true.

I've personally observed ICU nurses give the attending MD huge amounts of attitude over sedation/pain control/wound care stuff/etc. The ICU pharmacist where I worked was universally loved by the all the nurses, techs, etc. But I won't generalize that to any larger context.

True that , but they dare not to express these attitudes when the MDs are there. I bet you they just whine/ bitc* behind only when MDs are gone. To us, they don't care. That's the big difference. I never ever see a nurse yelling/screaming at an MD/PA. Pharmacists are yelled at on daily basis at several hospitals that I have been working at.

 

[iFarm]

The main issue here is nurses/staff don't ever dare to give attitudes to PA/MD...while they do that to pharmacists.

Moissanite69, the real issue is the generalizations. Who cares how they treat other pharmacists, YOU can impact the way they treat YOU. I'm assuming you work in a hospital? Possibly as a clinical pharmacist? Create a reputation for yourself where people say "Moissanite69 down in the pharmacy knows his/her stuff" It's all in the way you explain things and talk to people.

If you're willing to work at it, PAs/RNs/NPs (and maybe even a few MDs) will come to you for advice, and you'll gradually gain their respect.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

True that , but they dare not to express these attitudes when the MDs are there. I bet you they just whine/ bitc* behind only when MDs are gone. To us, they don't care. That's the big difference. I never ever see a nurse yelling/screaming at an MD/PA. Pharmacists are yelled at on daily basis at several hospitals that I have been working at.

Wrong. The situation I described happened on rounds. More than once That's why I said the ICU nurse GAVE THE ATTENDING attitude. She communicated it verbally to him in person. In front of the entire team, which included two attendings (pulm and CC), a pulm fellow, two upper level residents, three medical interns, our ICU pharmacist and me as a student. I'm not saying that happens everywhere, because that would be a GENERALIZATION. Just like the ones you are making.

As iFarm said, no one is saying your anecdotes are false. Just that they aren't any kind of proof of some systemic PA love/pharmacist hate conspiracy by nurses.

 

[owlegrad]

If you're willing to work at it, PAs/RNs/NPs (and maybe even a few MDs) will come to you for advice, and you'll gradually gain their respect.

I can't help but agree. Who cares if nurses give PA more respect in general (a premise that I reject)?

It is all about how you interact with people. Something that helps when interacting with nurses is to remember that they want respect also. I suspect that is the root cause of many people's perceived lack of respect.

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

lol more entitlement attitude. just because the title says "pharmacy student" doesn't mean I'm a 20-year-old with no healthcare experience. I don't know why you bothered posting this, unless you just wanted more people to bitch with. I'm going to go with that. If you tried to actually ascertain something from my post, you'd realize I never said that nurses don't give attitudes to pharmacists. I just said to not care...which you obviously don't want to let go of anytime soon, so I see my work is done here.

::flies off to go stir up more trouble::

Apteryii (Apteryxes? 😀) cannot fly! Dont you read the comics?

Oh great...a reply from a student.

Hey Pharm B... With the Navy icon under your name, you wouldnt have any real world experience with anything, would you? I mean, you are nothing but a 20 y/o student right?

 

[VCU07]

Disclaimer: This thread is not intended to start a war between PA vs PharmD.

As I was looking for a patient's chart to write a SOAP note, an RN said, "the doctor has it". I glanced over at the desk. It was a PA dictating H/P. I've noticed several things:

1. Why do RNs often call PA "Dr"....when they are not.
2. Why do RNs often get "scared" of PA while they see pharmacists (Pharm.D) at the same level...or even worse treat us like s***?
3. Why RNs don't mind picking up "fights" (arguments) with pharmacist (or pharmacy personnel), when they don't even dare to open their mouth to say anything with PA?

The funny thing is we have gone to school long enough to earn a Pharm.D and nobody cares or gives us the respect we deserve...while some PA from community college get better respect than us.😕 Horrible trend now. This trend is increasing, unfortunately.

Look, you have to understand how the system works. The RNs are getting **** from the MDs and PAs. At many hospitals they have strict times to administer medications and are evaluated on this heavily. I don't necessarily think its an issue of respect, but more so time and efficiency. RNs know how to play the game. They build good relationships with the PAs for a reason...it makes their lives easier! Esp. when they have to call for clarifications, etc...Pharmacy is a player in this too, but hospitals that are not decentralized have not had an opportunity to build that relationship. Like others have said, it takes earning respect and respect builds trust.

 

[pharmex]

Ok, when i did my rotations, i see a lot of incidents where nurses treated pharmacists very disrespectful. I was shock because it was my first experience in the hospital. They treated pharmacy students pretty bad. When i am the floor to clarify orders, they treated me pretty bad. It seem like i need them and they don't need me (its like a child asking a mother for money). They act like we are bordering their work. Sometimes i think the pharmacists deserve the tantrum. They always want everything on the orders. I mean EVERYTHING. something missing. clarify. and the nurses get piss because they are like you don't know.

 

[Trent Steele]

respect is earned, never given. Be an good source of info and dont be afraid to put someone in their place.... mostly be friendly and know your shiz and you will eventually get respect... as for them, the pas get a lot more face time with the clinicians than MOST pharmacists, so dont be afraid to get out there and talk to people in person instead of using the phone all the time if you can

 

[KARM12]

I worked hard to build relationships with my physicians, NPs, and RNs. This respect is earned because I proved to them that I have the best interest of the patient in mind and I am willing to help them out. I have more face time with my attendings, interns than the PAs that generally follow one surgical service.

I don't think PAs get a lot of respect...they did a lot of grunt work for attendings.

 

[Farmercyst]

I got called Doctor by the nurses as a pharmacy student at both the hospitals I rounded at. Never had any issues with nursing staff. Must be an individual experience that is setting based. Probably not something that is generalized across the board.

 

[owlegrad]

I got called Doctor by the nurses as a pharmacy student at both the hospitals I rounded at. Never had any issues with nursing staff. Must be an individual experience that is setting based. Probably not something that is generalized across the board.

I never had that exactly, but I have noticed that nurses always want to introduce me as a pharmacist. I have went over this many times - thanks for the support, but please introduce me as an intern. It continues to happen. Annoying.

On the other hand, it is an issue that will eventually resolve itself.

 

[phathead]

I generally don't hold RNs in that high of regard. Don't get me wrong, I totally respect what they do and their place in the health care system. It's just that far, far too many of them think that they are super, duper smart since they went to nursing school and act like they're God's gift to health care.

In every area of the country I've lived in, I've encountered this same theme. Hell I work for a few nursing students and they'll attempt to "correct" me.

"Um.. guaifenesin is used for coughing and sneezing only, might wanna make sure you check what you tell patients next time."

Right....

 

[Ackj]

I generally don't hold RNs in that high of regard. Don't get me wrong, I totally respect what they do and their place in the health care system. It's just that far, far too many of them think that they are super, duper smart since they went to nursing school and act like they're God's gift to health care.

In every area of the country I've lived in, I've encountered this same theme. Hell I work for a few nursing students and they'll attempt to "correct" me.

"Um.. guaifenesin is used for coughing and sneezing only, might wanna make sure you check what you tell patients next time."

Right....

"I don't need to be counseled, my wife/sister/neighbor/uncle's stepson's finance's dog's hairdresser's mother in law/etc is a nurse, she knows all about it"

 

[phathead]

"I don't need to be counseled, my wife/sister/neighbor/uncle's stepson's finance's dog's hairdresser's mother in law/etc is a nurse, she knows all about it"

Pretty much.

One of our tech's is a nursing student and she tried telling me her 12 credit last semester in nursing school is harder than my 19 credit P2 semester...

 

[rxlea]

Pretty much.

One of our tech's is a nursing student and she tried telling me her 12 credit last semester in nursing school is harder than my 19 credit P2 semester...

lol there are some individuals i work with (nursing students) who were comparing my pharmacology class to theirs trying to say it was the same..then the med student that works here said that in med school, their pharmacology is nothing compared to mine. Disconnect?

 

[YoungEel]

If you carry yourself as if you are lacking a spine, you will be treated by others the same way.

Courage/Pride is lacking in Pharmacy. A lot of pharmacists are taking this "humble" characteristic to new levels.

Many people say "who cares?". You should care how people treat you. It's called having a spine.

 

[YoungEel]

Pretty much.

One of our tech's is a nursing student and she tried telling me her 12 credit last semester in nursing school is harder than my 19 credit P2 semester...

The fact that she is even comparing her education to yours is laughable. You need to show her that she isn't in the same building as you, let alone the same level.

One of my mentors tells me to assume that the nurses are *******es and not to assume anything is understood when your license is on the line.

 

[KARM12]

The fact that she is even comparing her education to yours is laughable. You need to show her that she isn't in the same building as you, let alone the same level.

One of my mentors tells me to assume that the nurses are *******es and not to assume anything is understood when your license is on the line.

Bad attutude. Nurses are important for the things you do. Working in a hospital is always checks and balances. I don't assume they understand every thing. But at the same time, I take every one of their questions seriously. I've had a nurse save my butt before by asking a question. It isn't just pharmacists catching mistakes from physicians. They catch our mistakes too.

 

[owlegrad]

If you carry yourself as if you are lacking a spine, you will be treated by others the same way.

Courage/Pride is lacking in Pharmacy. A lot of pharmacists are taking this "humble" characteristic to new levels.

Many people say "who cares?". You should care how people treat you. It's called having a spine.

Interesting definition. I would say, "it's called having low self-esteem". I don't need or want a nurse/patient/physician to call me doctor. When you care how people think about you, you give them power over you. One of the most freeing thing you can do is stop caring about how people treat you and focus on your own actions instead. Care about what you can control (yourself) and not what you cannot (others), within reason of course.

 

[owlegrad]

Bad attutude. Nurses are important for the things you do. Working in a hospital is always checks and balances. I don't assume they understand every thing. But at the same time, I take every one of their questions seriously. I've had a nurse save my butt before by asking a question. It isn't just pharmacists catching mistakes from physicians. They catch our mistakes too.

👍

 

[YoungEel]

Bad attutude. Nurses are important for the things you do. Working in a hospital is always checks and balances. I don't assume they understand every thing. But at the same time, I take every one of their questions seriously. I've had a nurse save my butt before by asking a question. It isn't just pharmacists catching mistakes from physicians. They catch our mistakes too.

It's not a bad attitude. It's looking out for your license. You are not grasping what my point is. What if the nurse didn't ask that question and the patient was harmed? It would have been your negligence. This is why you assume the nurse doesn't know. You take all the steps to make sure proper protocol is followed.

 

[YoungEel]

Interesting definition. I would say, "it's called having low self-esteem". I don't need or want a nurse/patient/physician to call me doctor. When you care how people think about you, you give them power over you. One of the most freeing thing you can do is stop caring about how people treat you and focus on your own actions instead. Care about what you can control (yourself) and not what you cannot (others), within reason of course.

Do you understand there is a difference between caring how someone treats you versus how someone thinks of you???

If you like nurses yelling at you as if you are a child, that's on you. Maybe it's called having low self esteem to check a nurse yelling at me. I don't care if they call me doctor or not. But I do care if a nurse has the audacity to yell at me. We are all professionals. Even though I will assume most nurses don't know much, I treat everyone with respect.

"One of the most freeing thing you can do is stop caring about how people treat you and focus on your own actions instead." I have to disagree and SMH at this statement. This ideology is why a lot of pharmacists aren't respected.

I'm starting to see that most of you all think alike. Thumbs down

 

[Carboxide]

Do you understand there is a difference between caring how someone treats you versus how someone thinks of you???

If you like nurses yelling at you as if you are a child, that's on you. Maybe it's called having low self esteem to check a nurse yelling at me. I don't care if they call me doctor or not. But I do care if a nurse has the audacity to yell at me. We are all professionals. Even though I will assume most nurses don't know much, I treat everyone with respect.

"One of the most freeing thing you can do is stop caring about how people treat you and focus on your own actions instead." I have to disagree and SMH at this statement

I'm starting to see that most of you all think alike. Thumbs down

I have to agree with this post. I have had MANY nurses at the hospital I work in do the following:

1. Repeatedly call me over and over asking when it's ready and "Why isn't it ready yet??" despite me telling them that we will call them (like we always do) when the discharge meds are ready
2. Skip the line and stand up at the front and yell back, HELLOOO! I HAVE PATIENTS AND I NEED YOU TO HELP ME RIGHT NOW!
3. After we page them for an Rx insurance card three times, call us back to see if the meds are ready. When I tell them, "No, we paged you at this time, this time and this time for a card," they say, "Well I only got one page! How did I know I needed to call you BACK with the information???" ...really?????
4. Insist that the patient's docusate should be covered because "That's what the dr. wanted. Run it again. You DID IT WRONG."


No nurse would ever treat anyone else like this. The problem with saying, "Be good and you will get respect" doesn't work in pharmacy because they don't see our faces. They don't know or care who we are. They don't have to say it to our faces - they say it on the phone. And they treat us like CRAP.

 

[rxlea]

If you carry yourself as if you are lacking a spine, you will be treated by others the same way.

Courage/Pride is lacking in Pharmacy. A lot of pharmacists are taking this "humble" characteristic to new levels.

Many people say "who cares?". You should care how people treat you. It's called having a spine.

The fact that she is even comparing her education to yours is laughable. You need to show her that she isn't in the same building as you, let alone the same level.

One of my mentors tells me to assume that the nurses are *******es and not to assume anything is understood when your license is on the line.

You have a terrible attitude and I wouldn't want that on my team. Your mentor is off base.... by a lot. Everyone is supposed to be in it together; physicians, pharmacists, nurses, PAs..even the patient care technicians. Yes, we all have our complaints about one another and maybe joke around about it from time to time....but I think it is because we don't always understand what the other is doing/has to do. We don't know what it is like to be a nurse- running around 12 hours a day, keeping things straight on multiple patients, getting yelled at, etc. Just like they don't know what it is like in the IV room with 5 stat drips, ambisome, dapto, and chemo happening all at the same time.

The other thing is, we ALL make mistakes, but that doesn't make us a *******. If I make a mistake, I would prefer that my colleague take me aside and educate me; say, "Hey, this is the proper way." Sitting downstairs and bitching about everything won't get you very far in life; neither will looking down on others who have put a lot into getting an education and working hard to get into their role (just like you!).

It would be better to have some empathy and understanding, even in difficult situations and conflicts. Handle things in a more professional manner; take someone aside and talk to them as a peer. Going behind their back calling them this or that will do NOTHING to improve patient care, which is the MAIN goal! (is it not?).

Another thing, it isn't cool when you throw a colleague under the bus, either....just in case that ever crosses your mind since all you're worried about is your license...

 

[rxlea]

I have to agree with this post. I have had MANY nurses at the hospital I work in do the following:

1. Repeatedly call me over and over asking when it's ready and "Why isn't it ready yet??" despite me telling them that we will call them (like we always do) when the discharge meds are ready
2. Skip the line and stand up at the front and yell back, HELLOOO! I HAVE PATIENTS AND I NEED YOU TO HELP ME RIGHT NOW!
3. After we page them for an Rx insurance card three times, call us back to see if the meds are ready. When I tell them, "No, we paged you at this time, this time and this time for a card," they say, "Well I only got one page! How did I know I needed to call you BACK with the information???" ...really?????
4. Insist that the patient's docusate should be covered because "That's what the dr. wanted. Run it again. You DID IT WRONG."


No nurse would ever treat anyone else like this. The problem with saying, "Be good and you will get respect" doesn't work in pharmacy because they don't see our faces. They don't know or care who we are. They don't have to say it to our faces - they say it on the phone. And they treat us like CRAP.

There are bad eggs everywhere but I don't see how being reactionary and responding in the same manner will accomplish anything. Granted, you have more experience than I do and things are done differently from place to place. I don't think it is "be good and you will get some respect" as much as it is "advocate for your team and your patients and you will get some respect". We've had n00b nurses come in thinking they know EVERYTHING (pharmacists too!) and they quickly find out that they aren't going to be able to have that chip on their shoulder forever.

 

[rxlea]

Do you understand there is a difference between caring how someone treats you versus how someone thinks of you???

If you like nurses yelling at you as if you are a child, that's on you. Maybe it's called having low self esteem to check a nurse yelling at me. I don't care if they call me doctor or not. But I do care if a nurse has the audacity to yell at me. We are all professionals. Even though I will assume most nurses don't know much, I treat everyone with respect.

"One of the most freeing thing you can do is stop caring about how people treat you and focus on your own actions instead." I have to disagree and SMH at this statement. This ideology is why a lot of pharmacists aren't respected.

I'm starting to see that most of you all think alike. Thumbs down

How is thinking all nurses are *******es treating someone with respect? Don't you think your sentiment will pour over into how you talk to them/treat them? Or are you that fake?

I get what you are saying; yeah, you shouldn't just let people scream at you. That's why you gotta say "Hey, brah, wait a minute! Don't talk to me that way please!" 😉

 

[ValeRx]

It's a huge case of mistaken identity. PAs get confused for doctors and neglect to correct the mistake. Therefore, nurses still think they're doctors and they aren't. Case solved.

 

[R2pharmD2]

The fact that she is even comparing her education to yours is laughable. You need to show her that she isn't in the same building as you, let alone the same level.

One of my mentors tells me to assume that the nurses are *******es and not to assume anything is understood when your license is on the line.

There are physicians out there who take the same approach to interacting with pharmacists, and it's just as problematic as your approach to dealing with nurses. I think that working as a team and appreciating what each member brings to the table is more beneficial for everyone involved than trying to keep others "in their place", so to speak.

 

[spacecowgirl]

There are a-holes in every profession, as is well-illustrated in this thread. Embarrassing.

I have worked in a hospital with terrible infighting and now I work in a place where that is not present. Not that there isn't some snarking, there is, but it's nothing like the toxic environment where I worked as an intern. The culture difference is amazing. You'd be surprised at how much more you get done when you stop wasting time bitching about what everyone else is doing.

 

[YoungEel]

You have a terrible attitude and I wouldn't want that on my team. Your mentor is off base.... by a lot. Everyone is supposed to be in it together; physicians, pharmacists, nurses, PAs..even the patient care technicians. Yes, we all have our complaints about one another and maybe joke around about it from time to time....but I think it is because we don't always understand what the other is doing/has to do. We don't know what it is like to be a nurse- running around 12 hours a day, keeping things straight on multiple patients, getting yelled at, etc. Just like they don't know what it is like in the IV room with 5 stat drips, ambisome, dapto, and chemo happening all at the same time.

The other thing is, we ALL make mistakes, but that doesn't make us a *******. If I make a mistake, I would prefer that my colleague take me aside and educate me; say, "Hey, this is the proper way." Sitting downstairs and bitching about everything won't get you very far in life; neither will looking down on others who have put a lot into getting an education and working hard to get into their role (just like you!).

It would be better to have some empathy and understanding, even in difficult situations and conflicts. Handle things in a more professional manner; take someone aside and talk to them as a peer. Going behind their back calling them this or that will do NOTHING to improve patient care, which is the MAIN goal! (is it not?).

Another thing, it isn't cool when you throw a colleague under the bus, either....just in case that ever crosses your mind since all you're worried about is your license...

I have a great attitude. Apparently you didn't read what I typed. Let me put this another way for you to comprehend.

Let's say you are working in a retail setting. A newly diagnosed patient gives you a prescription for levothyroxine. Would you:

A) give the patient the levothyroxine bottle in a bag and tell them to have a nice day assuming the patient had expert knowledge of the disease and treatment? or

B) Assume the patient didn't know anything about the disease and administration?

Depending on if you answered correctly, 98% of what you typed was irrelevant as a rebuttal to my message of assuming too much from a nurse and protecting your license.

 

[YoungEel]

How is thinking all nurses are *******es treating someone with respect? Don't you think your sentiment will pour over into how you talk to them/treat them? Or are you that fake?

I get what you are saying; yeah, you shouldn't just let people scream at you. That's why you gotta say "Hey, brah, wait a minute! Don't talk to me that way please!" 😉

Wow...I feel like I am in the twilight zone. Do you assume the lay customer coming in to fill their new warfarin medication is an expert? I hope not. Do you treat customers with respect? I hope so. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?

 

[YoungEel]

There are a-holes in every profession, as is well-illustrated in this thread. Embarrassing.

I have worked in a hospital with terrible infighting and now I work in a place where that is not present. Not that there isn't some snarking, there is, but it's nothing like the toxic environment where I worked as an intern. The culture difference is amazing. You'd be surprised at how much more you get done when you stop wasting time bitching about what everyone else is doing.

red herring
noun [C]

Definition
a fact, idea or subject that takes people's attention away from the central point being considered

 

[YoungEel]

There are physicians out there who take the same approach to interacting with pharmacists, and it's just as problematic as your approach to dealing with nurses. I think that working as a team and appreciating what each member brings to the table is more beneficial for everyone involved than trying to keep others "in their place", so to speak.

You are absolutely right. I hope you don't scream on medical doctors in your hospital. So instead of typing abstract ideas, maybe you wouldn't mind answering this question for me:

What is wrong with assuming a nurse does not have expert knowledge of medication?

If you feel that nurses do have your level of knowledge of medications, maybe you also feel that pharmacists do not have a real role in a hospital setting. Is this true?


Thanks in advance for your response

 

[R2pharmD2]

You are absolutely right. I hope you don't scream on medical doctors in your hospital. So instead of typing abstract ideas, maybe you wouldn't mind answering this question for me:

What is wrong with assuming a nurse does not have expert knowledge of medication?

If you feel that nurses do have your level of knowledge of medications, maybe you also feel that pharmacists do not have a real role in a hospital setting. Is this true?


Thanks in advance for your response

No one said you should assume nurses have an expert knowledge of medications, but they do have a level of knowledge appropriate for their role as nurses. Nurses catch pharmacist mistakes all of the time, and just because they don't have our level of expertise doesn't mean they're "*******es". Of course we shouldn't assume they know everything, but they are trained to play their role and respecting them as healthcare professionals also means giving them some credit for what they do know. I'm not sure how you can simultaneously assume they're idiots and still treat them with respect.