Experienced medic on the road to medical school

[loglat]

Hey everyone,

I've been trolling this site for a while, and finally decided to dive in. SDN has been a great source of information, and I suspect it will be even better once you know my specifics.

I've been in the Air Force for 12 years, currently serving as an Independent Duty Medical Technician and Flight Paramedic in the Special Operations community. To get to where I am, I've been constantly learning and expanding my scope and skills. I've developed that addiction that many of you have experienced... it's like the more I learn, the more I want to learn. This is one of the reasons I think I'd like to go to medical school (eventually).

I already know what some of you are thinking... I'm at 12 years of service and using words like "eventually?" It's time to "s*** or get off the pot" as my dad would say. The thing is, I'm having fun as a medic, and just signed on for another really unique assignment. I just finished my bachelors @ GWU, but still have a lot of sciences to knock out, which I'll start in the spring. I'm not in a huge hurry to become a doctor, but I know I will be cutting it close on my window of opportunity with the military.

Realistically, I think I could be ready to apply by ~2023, which would put me at 17 years. Certainly, I could just retire and go to school afterward but I would enjoy being a military doc, and retirement is WAY better. It might be optimistic but I think I could do HPSP, a shorter residency, and have 6 years as an active duty doc before I had to retire.

I don't have much preference of MD vs DO, and as long as my school is good enough to teach me well and give me a good shot and my desired residency, I'm not interested in the prestige of a particular school. I would prefer a relatively relaxed learning atmosphere, and a school that focuses on clinical medicine versus research. I'm pretty sure I'd prefer emergency medicine, but I'll keep an open mind.

Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated. If you think I'm off my rocker, I welcome that candor. If you have recommendations on schools, or things I may not have considered, please send it. I will have lots more follow up questions along the way, but I'm so grateful for this site!

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[pgg]

I just finished my bachelors @ GWU, but still have a lot of sciences to knock out, which I'll start in the spring.

Realistically, I think I could be ready to apply by ~2023

If you have an undergrad degree already (and from a B&M school - which is great), how does it take 5 more years to get the med pre-reqs done?

If you were applying now with 12 years of credit, I'd say HPSP or USUHS would be great options since you'd be eligible for retirement (or close to it) when your ADSO was up. You didn't say how old you were, but if you wait until you've got 17 years in, you may be at or over the age limit (36) by then. I'm led to believe that age waivers are usually granted, however.

 

[95ragtop]

I'm an 18D, got out this past August just shy of 14 years TIS, and doing HPSP. Like Pgg said above, why would you apply in 2023? What is stopping you from applying earlier? If it's because you want to keep doing cool guy stuff, there's nothing wrong with that. I considered a bunch of different options before medical school, but due to age and family I know I made the right choice. I know a guy that turned down an acceptance to be a support medic, but he is young enough that he can go have fun for a few years.

Another factor to consider is that unless you do 10 years as an officer, you'll be retiring at your last enlisted rank. Like if I did an EM residency and retired at 21 years. O-3 95ragtop will be retiring with E-7 pay.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Don't discount doing your 20 years and getting out. Check out the voc rehab thread. You'll never do anything as wiz-bang cool as what you are doing now.

 

[loglat]

If you have an undergrad degree already (and from a B&M school - which is great), how does it take 5 more years to get the med pre-reqs done?

If it's because you want to keep doing cool guy stuff, there's nothing wrong with that.

I didn't explain that well. I could separate in a couple of months, hit school hard, and apply next year. But I enjoy the work I do (for the most part) and they made me an offer I can't refuse. My next assignment will have me taking some great trips, receiving a lot of training (to include a language), a sizeable bonus (on top of my decent salary), and I'll be living minutes away from some of the best beaches in the U.S. Unfortunately for my academic life, I'll be pretty busy so I'll just have to take a class here and there when I can.

Depending on which schools I apply to, I need at least 6-8 classes and I'm going to try to avoid doing any of my sciences online. Also, I want to spend some serious amount of time on MCAT prep. After all that's done and I hopefully get accepted, I'm assuming the AF will let me go even if I still have time on my ADSC. The regulations indicate that's not a big deal, but I don't know anyone who's actually done it.

 

[loglat]

Another factor to consider is that unless you do 10 years as an officer, you'll be retiring at your last enlisted rank. Like if I did an EM residency and retired at 21 years. O-3 95ragtop will be retiring with E-7 pay.

Glad you mentioned that, as it's one thing I haven't gotten 100% clarification on. I know the four years in medical school as a Lt don't count towards retirement (HPSP), but do they count towards that "10 years as an officer" requirement? Could end be a game changer.

 

[TheEarDoc]

Hey everyone,

I've been trolling this site for a while, and finally decided to dive in. SDN has been a great source of information, and I suspect it will be even better once you know my specifics.

I've been in the Air Force for 12 years, currently serving as an Independent Duty Medical Technician and Flight Paramedic in the Special Operations community. To get to where I am, I've been constantly learning and expanding my scope and skills. I've developed that addiction that many of you have experienced... it's like the more I learn, the more I want to learn. This is one of the reasons I think I'd like to go to medical school (eventually).

I already know what some of you are thinking... I'm at 12 years of service and using words like "eventually?" It's time to "s*** or get off the pot" as my dad would say. The thing is, I'm having fun as a medic, and just signed on for another really unique assignment. I just finished my bachelors @ GWU, but still have a lot of sciences to knock out, which I'll start in the spring. I'm not in a huge hurry to become a doctor, but I know I will be cutting it close on my window of opportunity with the military.

Realistically, I think I could be ready to apply by ~2023, which would put me at 17 years. Certainly, I could just retire and go to school afterward but I would enjoy being a military doc, and retirement is WAY better. It might be optimistic but I think I could do HPSP, a shorter residency, and have 6 years as an active duty doc before I had to retire.

I don't have much preference of MD vs DO, and as long as my school is good enough to teach me well and give me a good shot and my desired residency, I'm not interested in the prestige of a particular school. I would prefer a relatively relaxed learning atmosphere, and a school that focuses on clinical medicine versus research. I'm pretty sure I'd prefer emergency medicine, but I'll keep an open mind.

Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated. If you think I'm off my rocker, I welcome that candor. If you have recommendations on schools, or things I may not have considered, please send it. I will have lots more follow up questions along the way, but I'm so grateful for this site!

Or another option. Get out at 17 or stay for 20. Concentrate fully on medical school and pay for it on your own. Go reserves after medical school while working in the VA system. Get huge payback bonus for reserves, get loan repayment through VA if you go somewhere they need you, be the master of your own destiny in terms of specialty, etc. in the civilian world and still serve and you can finish out your 20 years for military retirement and you can buy back your military retirement in the VA system and draw 2 retirements! Something to think about, unless you're gung ho and just want to be military doc and don't care what specialty.

 

[95ragtop]

Glad you mentioned that, as it's one thing I haven't gotten 100% clarification on. I know the four years in medical school as a Lt don't count towards retirement (HPSP), but do they count towards that "10 years as an officer" requirement? Could end be a game changer.

I'll have to look up the regulation again, but I'm 99% sure you have to be reserve or active duty to qualify. From what I've heard and read the ADTs you do during med school don't count towards active duty time either.

The 10 year officer retirement can be a mute point if your considering a surgical specialty. Do a 5 year gen surg residency and you owe 5 back.

I know of a guy that was INDEF (around 14 years TIS) and got out once he had his acceptance. I had about 18 months left on my contract, but wasn't INDEF yet. I was really doubtful I could get out of it, so that was one factor that influenced my decision.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Out at 17 and then double dipping as a reservist and govie is probably the best choice financially. Your 17 years of service count twice. You can start both retirements at 60 and be set for life.

 

[TheEarDoc]

Out at 17 and then double dipping as a reservist and govie is probably the best choice financially. Your 17 years of service count twice. You can start both retirements at 60 and be set for life.

That;'s what I would do if I were him. You can come and go as you please once your commitment is up for any incentives you take for signing up with reserves.

 

[teacherman84]

I didn't explain that well. I could separate in a couple of months, hit school hard, and apply next year. But I enjoy the work I do (for the most part) and they made me an offer I can't refuse. My next assignment will have me taking some great trips, receiving a lot of training (to include a language), a sizeable bonus (on top of my decent salary), and I'll be living minutes away from some of the best beaches in the U.S. Unfortunately for my academic life, I'll be pretty busy so I'll just have to take a class here and there when I can.

Depending on which schools I apply to, I need at least 6-8 classes and I'm going to try to avoid doing any of my sciences online. Also, I want to spend some serious amount of time on MCAT prep. After all that's done and I hopefully get accepted, I'm assuming the AF will let me go even if I still have time on my ADSC. The regulations indicate that's not a big deal, but I don't know anyone who's actually done it.

If that assignment is in NW Florida, I have personal experience doing all my prereqs in that area if you want to chat offline about any of that.

Med school plus residency is a long road...have you thought about the IPAP program? Itll get you to Officer quicker and back to clinical medicine. I know a few PAs who did a similar career (army or AF SF medics to PA) retired as O4 and then got sweet contract jobs making good money at the same MTF they retired from.

 

[loglat]

That;'s what I would do if I were him. You can come and go as you please once your commitment is up for any incentives you take for signing up with reserves.

I've not considered that route before, and I know basically nothing about the reserves or the VA. Can you break it down for me, and/or point me to where I can get more info?

 

[loglat]

If that assignment is in NW Florida, I have personal experience doing all my prereqs in that area if you want to chat offline about any of that.

Med school plus residency is a long road...have you thought about the IPAP program? Itll get you to Officer quicker and back to clinical medicine. I know a few PAs who did a similar career (army or AF SF medics to PA) retired as O4 and then got sweet contract jobs making good money at the same MTF they retired from.

I've thought about PA, and it would certainly work if medical school doesn't work out for whatever reason. However, with that addiction to learning I mentioned, and my need for conceptual learning, it doesn't feel like the BEST route for me. Also, I currently function in a semi-independent role with constant (often remote) physician oversight. I would have a lot of the same frustrations as a PA that I do now (I understand everyone has bosses). That said, it's a great profession with good money, and often times the best of both worlds.

I'd love to hear anything you have to say about school in NW Florida. I'll probably enroll at NWFSC and take classes in the evening or whenever I can fit them in.

 

[teacherman84]

I've thought about PA, and it would certainly work if medical school doesn't work out for whatever reason. However, with that addiction to learning I mentioned, and my need for conceptual learning, it doesn't feel like the BEST route for me. Also, I currently function in a semi-independent role with constant (often remote) physician oversight. I would have a lot of the same frustrations as a PA that I do now (I understand everyone has bosses). That said, it's a great profession with good money, and often times the best of both worlds.

I'd love to hear anything you have to say about school in NW Florida. I'll probably enroll at NWFSC and take classes in the evening or whenever I can fit them in.

I get that...a great option if you decide the 7+ years of med school/residency isn't for you.
Send me a PM and we can chat specifics.

 

[Gastrapathy]

When you separate prior to retirement, your years can be “bought back” for a nominal sum and counted as years of federal service. You need an additional 5 years of service as a civilian federal employee to be retirement eligible and then you would have 22 years towards a federal pension. In addition, you can use those same years as a reservist, so after 3 additional years, you would have a military pension (though not an officer pension until you do 10 I think).

Reservists get time off for reserve duty outside of vacation and as someone with > 15 years, you’d get the max VA (or other federal job, ie civilian at a MTF) vacation.

Plus, you might get voc rehab to pay for med school and you could consider some of the national guard incentives.

 

[loglat]

Or another option. Get out at 17 or stay for 20. Concentrate fully on medical school and pay for it on your own. Go reserves after medical school while working in the VA system. Get huge payback bonus for reserves, get loan repayment through VA if you go somewhere they need you, be the master of your own destiny in terms of specialty, etc. in the civilian world and still serve and you can finish out your 20 years for military retirement and you can buy back your military retirement in the VA system and draw 2 retirements! Something to think about, unless you're gung ho and just want to be military doc and don't care what specialty.

In theory, I shouldn't have too much trouble getting an EM match in the military, right? Assuming that's still what I want when I get there.
Does working for the VA offer benefits over other civilian federal service?

 

[Blanky]

I think that financially it may be better to grab that retirement, but if you really want to become an EM physician then work through the prereqs while you are making $$ or let the government pay for it. Then get into med school without the HPSP. This will give you more freedom in the match and make matching EM much easier (I hear it is competitive in Mil match.) Now you have the freedom to practice $$$ anywhere you wish to be it EM in the military or general population. Someone who knows more than I do can chime in with details.

 

[Gastrapathy]

All federal civilian service is the same. The VA has most of the jobs for now.

EM is competitive in the military but I would think your background would help if you are in the ballpark.

 

[TheEarDoc]

When you separate prior to retirement, your years can be “bought back” for a nominal sum and counted as years of federal service. You need an additional 5 years of service as a civilian federal employee to be retirement eligible and then you would have 22 years towards a federal pension. In addition, you can use those same years as a reservist, so after 3 additional years, you would have a military pension (though not an officer pension until you do 10 I think).

Reservists get time off for reserve duty outside of vacation and as someone with > 15 years, you’d get the max VA (or other federal job, ie civilian at a MTF) vacation.

Plus, you might get voc rehab to pay for med school and you could consider some of the national guard incentives.

Yep 3 weeks of paid military leave (you can double dip and get paid federal GS pay and military pay for those 3 weeks too)

Yes he would probably get a big help with school with voc rehab too. Also many states give free tuition to reserves members and guard members.

 

[TheEarDoc]

In theory, I shouldn't have too much trouble getting an EM match in the military, right? Assuming that's still what I want when I get there.
Does working for the VA offer benefits over other civilian federal service?

3 weeks paid military leave a year
Every federal holiday off with pay
Usually can work compressed tours (4-10’s) so you can pick up a side gig and moonlight
Get to hang out with other veterans. Being a veteran working the VA you are treated a lot differently than a regular civilian employee.

If you’re going to be in the reserves outside of state employment in most states it’s the best gig going I think.