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In a very dark room.
Extremely immature classmates...
- Thread starter Clair de Lune
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In a very dark room.
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Choose the most correct answer:
a) the girl is blind
b) blackout
c) blindfold paraphilia
d) all of the above
a) the girl is blind
b) blackout
c) blindfold paraphilia
d) all of the above
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"Gay Porn" portion of Human Sexuality?! You mean I'm going to have to study gay porn if I want to be a doctor? That is an outrage. I would have walked out along with those women.
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I don't know. It seems like an incentive to get some people to go to med school.
1
16846
Hell Yeah! My main reason for attending medical school 🙄
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jeez... lighten up... however, i did come up with an interesting question for this thread... so humor me, k?
i can understand walking out on this during m1, maybe even m2... as for many people, medical school is the first time they may be exposed to a certain lifestyle/concept/organ, etc... but (and i'm currently an m3), am i the only one who's feeling desensitized to almost anything? i'm about 2/3 the way through all my core rotations, and at this point, I don't feel shockable or that i'd be offended by something like this... i don't think i'd've actually walked out on gay porn during M1, but i'd've at least cared that it was shown... now, i'm not so sure
does anyone else feel that way and/or think my name should be changed to T-Colon (cuz i'm full of s**t)...
-tim
ps - clair, sorry 'bout jumpin on you when you started the thread... d=)
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Daiphon--it's OK, I'm just glad people actually responded to my post. I think I know what you mean about the desensitization thing. I'm only M2 and I already feel that way, but then again by the time I started med school I was already desensitized to a lot of stuff. So I think what you're talking about is pretty normal. I think it's best that doctors are desensitized to these sorts of things b/c it allows their patients to open up & not feel as though they are being judged. Also, it's kind of interesting how, on a daily basis, I find myself having conversations with other med students or doctors about things that most civilized people would find gross and/or appalling. As for the "gay porn" (now was this actual porn or more of an educational video?)--I know I'd be a little uncomfortable if we had to watch it, but I'm sure that sort of thing would be mild compared to some of the stuff I'm going to witness in the next few years. It's funny how fast you get over some of your hang-ups as you go thru med school.
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cool... as long as i'm not the only one. d=)
but is there a limit to how desensitized one should/could/has become? i agree with it being "good" in that physicians (for the most part) become accustomed to it and thus don't pre-judge their patients; but how does one know if it's gone too far? and if you realize you've become too numb to the human condition (the logical consequence of unchecked desensitization), can you return?
can y'all tell that i'm currently in hour 36 of back-to-back calls? d=) waxing philosophic only occurs when i'm sleep deprived...
-tim
but is there a limit to how desensitized one should/could/has become? i agree with it being "good" in that physicians (for the most part) become accustomed to it and thus don't pre-judge their patients; but how does one know if it's gone too far? and if you realize you've become too numb to the human condition (the logical consequence of unchecked desensitization), can you return?
can y'all tell that i'm currently in hour 36 of back-to-back calls? d=) waxing philosophic only occurs when i'm sleep deprived...
-tim
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It was more of an "educational video and clips" but it was very graphic. Some of the reactions here are similar to those that left....its immature. For those that responded with "I would have left too", I see that you are not comfortable with your own sexuality.
Was this video for desensitization....yes. Why? So that when faced with patients who tell us these things we dont act disgusted....or reply like Trismegistus did, keep in mind....we are here to treat medical problems, not moral issues.
stomper
Was this video for desensitization....yes. Why? So that when faced with patients who tell us these things we dont act disgusted....or reply like Trismegistus did, keep in mind....we are here to treat medical problems, not moral issues.
stomper
"we are here to treat medical problems, not moral issues.."
Another doc-to-be who somehow missed the entire Cannon in his education and adopted the arrogance of chic relativism -- fast food of the mind suitable for intellectual quitters. How sad.
Of course physicians shouldn't be paternalistic or apt to condemn their patients! However, if doctors are unwilling to recognize social ills for what they are, then we are all up a creek.
i don't know you, but I don't think that the radical relativism that you preach (and yes you do sound like a louder, more obnoxious preacher than anyone else here) will serve you or our profession well.
Another doc-to-be who somehow missed the entire Cannon in his education and adopted the arrogance of chic relativism -- fast food of the mind suitable for intellectual quitters. How sad.
Of course physicians shouldn't be paternalistic or apt to condemn their patients! However, if doctors are unwilling to recognize social ills for what they are, then we are all up a creek.
i don't know you, but I don't think that the radical relativism that you preach (and yes you do sound like a louder, more obnoxious preacher than anyone else here) will serve you or our profession well.
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are we talking the social ills of smoking, obesity, DM, CAD, teenage pregnancy, AIDS, etc? Or are we talking about the social ills of "homosexualism"? I can tell you are a tolerant individual.
stomper
Who's talking about 'homosexualism"?
Your words in the earlier discussion of general conduct illustrate the earlier point quite well:
"My point is that you cant change what others do. People will do it regardless. Fine. Let them. If they screw up, it is their fault. Not yours."
Swell attitude. Again, physicians are not in the business of condemning patients or of being overly paternalistic. However, compassion is not letting someone do whatever they want to do. Enlightenment is not supression of ethics, values, or dignity. And we do not tolerate that which is good, we tolerate that which is bad. Hence 'tolerance' is not something we should strive for in ALL situations -- unless we want the base to rule.
Your words in the earlier discussion of general conduct illustrate the earlier point quite well:
"My point is that you cant change what others do. People will do it regardless. Fine. Let them. If they screw up, it is their fault. Not yours."
Swell attitude. Again, physicians are not in the business of condemning patients or of being overly paternalistic. However, compassion is not letting someone do whatever they want to do. Enlightenment is not supression of ethics, values, or dignity. And we do not tolerate that which is good, we tolerate that which is bad. Hence 'tolerance' is not something we should strive for in ALL situations -- unless we want the base to rule.
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Trajan,
Not sure what I did to deserve these personal attacks...."clueless....spineless donkey....etc"
Let me give you an example.....
The other day, I had a patient in the hospital.....56 yo wf no significant PMH as she hasnt seen a doctor in over 5 years, presents with CP, diaphoresis, SOB. She has a FH of CAD, M and F both died in early 50s, both GF died in early 50s from MI. GM stroke. She is an occasional social drinker, and a 75pack/year use of tobacco. Her EKG showed no acute ST changes, or Q waves.
Her labs showed an elevated cholesterol of 285, LDL of 189, HDL of 40, and a TG of 254. She did have 2 fasting BG of 135, and 130 respectively during her hospital stay. Her cardiac panel was neg X4.
She had 4/5 major risk factors for an MI.
She was stressed and it was positive, sent to cath which was negative. Meanwhile during her stay she and I talked at length about bringing those RF down. She was started on Lipitor, and given diabetic counselling as its new onset, and hers could easily be treated with diet/exercise rather than drugs. We discussed ways to quit smoking, and I even offered her to get her the patch while in the hospital....she refused. Am I sympathetic towards her situation.....yes. But after all the discussion, education I had found out from her nurse, that before she left, after she found her cath to be negative, she was caught smoking in her room.
One cannot change what others do. We hope we can make a difference, but people will infact do as they please. Why are there obese physicians out there? They know the risk factors better than anyone. People will do as they please.
Perhaps you need some experience in the clinical setting to see this, and stop attacking me personally. there is no need for it.
stomper
Not sure what I did to deserve these personal attacks...."clueless....spineless donkey....etc"
Let me give you an example.....
The other day, I had a patient in the hospital.....56 yo wf no significant PMH as she hasnt seen a doctor in over 5 years, presents with CP, diaphoresis, SOB. She has a FH of CAD, M and F both died in early 50s, both GF died in early 50s from MI. GM stroke. She is an occasional social drinker, and a 75pack/year use of tobacco. Her EKG showed no acute ST changes, or Q waves.
Her labs showed an elevated cholesterol of 285, LDL of 189, HDL of 40, and a TG of 254. She did have 2 fasting BG of 135, and 130 respectively during her hospital stay. Her cardiac panel was neg X4.
She had 4/5 major risk factors for an MI.
She was stressed and it was positive, sent to cath which was negative. Meanwhile during her stay she and I talked at length about bringing those RF down. She was started on Lipitor, and given diabetic counselling as its new onset, and hers could easily be treated with diet/exercise rather than drugs. We discussed ways to quit smoking, and I even offered her to get her the patch while in the hospital....she refused. Am I sympathetic towards her situation.....yes. But after all the discussion, education I had found out from her nurse, that before she left, after she found her cath to be negative, she was caught smoking in her room.
One cannot change what others do. We hope we can make a difference, but people will infact do as they please. Why are there obese physicians out there? They know the risk factors better than anyone. People will do as they please.
Perhaps you need some experience in the clinical setting to see this, and stop attacking me personally. there is no need for it.
stomper
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I'm perfectly comfortable with my own sexuality; it's fudgepacking that I'm not comfortable with. Would that we lived in a world where it was considered "immature" to show educational videos and clips depicting sodomy in professional school, not immature to walk out of such showings.
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I think the biggest lesson to learn is that, unlike having the luxury of walking out on a video you found distasteful..you will never have the luxury of walking out on a patient whose morals conflict with yours. Learning tolerance and acceptance isn't just something you should strive for, but something you HAVE to achieve to be a good physician. Showing videos and discussing difficult topics isn't just for the fun of the school. They are doing it for a real reason. Their hope is that as you are subsequently exposed to disturbing topics, your shock reactions will lessen so that when a real situation hits, you'll be able to separate your own moral conflicts from the situation and treat the patient in an unbiased way. Whether you are removing an unreasonably large FO from the rectum or casting a guy's hand that he broke on his wife's face, you are going to deal with issues that may tear you up on the inside... But you should be prepared to keep it together on the outside. I don't think you can accuse your school officials of being "immature" for showing these videos. It is for your own development...and I think in the long run it will do some of you a great deal of good.
On another note....I agree with Stomper about our ability to change peoples' attitudes...we can't. If you encounter homosexuality and sodomy issues with one of your patients, your goal should not be to address the moral issues of sodomy with your patient. Your sole goal should be to help that patient understand how to perform sodomy safely to protect his/her health and that of their partner. People will do what they want, all we can do is try to keep them healthy. The desensitization videos help you to get over that hump of allowing your own judgments to dictate your behavior and more effectively perform your duties as a good physician.
p.s. great thread...good issues discussed here.
On another note....I agree with Stomper about our ability to change peoples' attitudes...we can't. If you encounter homosexuality and sodomy issues with one of your patients, your goal should not be to address the moral issues of sodomy with your patient. Your sole goal should be to help that patient understand how to perform sodomy safely to protect his/her health and that of their partner. People will do what they want, all we can do is try to keep them healthy. The desensitization videos help you to get over that hump of allowing your own judgments to dictate your behavior and more effectively perform your duties as a good physician.
p.s. great thread...good issues discussed here.
N
njbmd
Hi Guys,
Some of my fellow medical students were pretty immature, rude and generally obnoxious when we started first year. The surprising thing is that after third year, they became good physicians. I chalked their behavior up to "reacting to the stress of medical school" and let it go. All of us changed over the four-year process and some changed more than others fortunately. We had one MD-Ph.D student in our class that we all voted "most likely to blow us away with an automatic weapon" because he was so inflammatory. Many of us learned to ignore him but we all breathed a sigh of relief when he left our class after second year. I am not certain that he is going to make it through the clinical part of his training even though he is a good researcher. I guess his growing curve is pretty steep. I am just glad that he isn't anywhere near me at this point.
njbmd😀
Some of my fellow medical students were pretty immature, rude and generally obnoxious when we started first year. The surprising thing is that after third year, they became good physicians. I chalked their behavior up to "reacting to the stress of medical school" and let it go. All of us changed over the four-year process and some changed more than others fortunately. We had one MD-Ph.D student in our class that we all voted "most likely to blow us away with an automatic weapon" because he was so inflammatory. Many of us learned to ignore him but we all breathed a sigh of relief when he left our class after second year. I am not certain that he is going to make it through the clinical part of his training even though he is a good researcher. I guess his growing curve is pretty steep. I am just glad that he isn't anywhere near me at this point.
njbmd😀
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I agree this has become a very interesting thread. Here is a question. Do you think that certain specialties are more "desensitizing" than others? To me (keep in mind I am an M2 with very little clinical experience), a specialty that involves little ongoing relationship with the pt (I'm thinking something along the lines of anesthesia or perhaps surgery) requires the physician to treat the medical problem as opposed to the whole patient. That is to say, that in these circumstances the doctor would be more concerned with removing a diseased organ or putting a shattered femur back together than with what sort of lifestyle the pt leads. Whereas a family medicine or OB/GYN doc, who has an ongoing relationship with the pt, may be a more prone to address those lifestyle issues whether or not they pertain to the medical problems at hand. I realize this is a huge genarlization, but this is just my opinion--I'm curious to see what those of you who have been on clinic for awhile have observed.
njbmd--I figure those immature classmates of mine will be good docs some day, otherwise our admissions committee wouldn't have risked putting them in med school. In the meantime, though, some of them are really making a rep for themselves with all of their antics.
njbmd--I figure those immature classmates of mine will be good docs some day, otherwise our admissions committee wouldn't have risked putting them in med school. In the meantime, though, some of them are really making a rep for themselves with all of their antics.
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that's kind of why i asked the original "desensitization" question - planning on going into EM, and am curious as to how one can tell if they've gone too far in terms of blocking out their humanity (for lack of abetter term).
-tim
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So homosexual oral sex is ok, but heterosexual anal sex is not? After all it is sodomy too....and is "fudgepacking". I really hope you attain some level of tolerance before you discuss AIDS/safe sex with your first homosexual teenager, who is coming to see you for advice and suicidal depression. It will happen.
stomper
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16846
Amen!
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I was really taken aback by the immaturity of some of the people in my class when we started med school two years ago. I felt like the people who came to class late, giggled and whispered in the back, skipped class, had friends sign attendance sheets for them, turned in assignments late, dyed their hair fluorescent colors, etc., etc. were somehow lowering the standards of our future profession. It used to irritate me to no end.
Now? Well, let's just say perspective is a funny thing. Sure, some of my classmates take a different approach to learning than I do, and quite often some of them behave in ways that I probably wouldn't consider acceptable for myself. BUT - bottom line is, I don't find that it adversely affects my learning experience in any way, and I certainly don't consider myself in a position to judge whether they will be good physicians or not.
My point being, it's very easy to blow things out of proportion in the microcosm of a medical school class. Sometimes stepping back and reassessing where "immature classmates" fit in the grand scheme of your world will change your outlook 🙂
Now? Well, let's just say perspective is a funny thing. Sure, some of my classmates take a different approach to learning than I do, and quite often some of them behave in ways that I probably wouldn't consider acceptable for myself. BUT - bottom line is, I don't find that it adversely affects my learning experience in any way, and I certainly don't consider myself in a position to judge whether they will be good physicians or not.
My point being, it's very easy to blow things out of proportion in the microcosm of a medical school class. Sometimes stepping back and reassessing where "immature classmates" fit in the grand scheme of your world will change your outlook 🙂
