Failed to match twice seeking help.

[Ttriple-SEc]

I’m a US DO who just went through the scramble and came up empty handed.
My red flags:

Graduated in may of 2020.

2 comlex PE failures which I couldn’t even get a passing score for in time to get anything the first time i applied last cycle of 2019-2020.
Now the exam is cancelled for me since i was allowed to graduate but the cancellation didn’t come into effect until 03/11 of this year.

Low board scores only took comlex only first pass on both level 1 and level 2 CE.

Decent LORs
Good grades in clerkships.
This year I’ve been working a clinical job in my hometown.
My question is: what do i have to do next to have a shot at this. Do i even stand a chance still?

My thoughts are that i can possibly try to take usmle
Or maybe even try to take comlex level 3.

I applied psych the first time got 3 iv
Family med the second time only got 1 iv

Just feel lost

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[The Last Ankibender]

I’m a US DO who just went through the scramble and came up empty handed.
My red flags:

Graduated in may of 2020.

2 comlex PE failures which I couldn’t even get a passing score for in time to get anything the first time i applied last cycle of 2019-2020.
Now the exam is cancelled for me since i was allowed to graduate but the cancellation didn’t come into effect until 03/11 of this year.

Low board scores only took comlex only first pass on both level 1 and level 2 CE.

Decent LORs
Good grades in clerkships.
This year I’ve been working a clinical job in my hometown.
My question is: what do i have to do next to have a shot at this. Do i even stand a chance still?

My thoughts are that i can possibly try to take usmle
Or maybe even try to take comlex level 3.

I applied psych the first time got 3 iv
Family med the second time only got 1 iv

Just feel lost

Study hard try taking the STEPs and getting better scores

 

[MusicDOc124]

With the PE no longer, will the previously failed PEs show up on the application? If not, then reapplying this coming year may be better than previously if you utilize the time to have something to show for the now multiple years off, although you may be asked when happened before, and thus the PE may come up, but at least you have a better chance of getting the door. Make connections. Get new strong letters. Publish. Apply broadly. Apply both psych and FM, not just one or the other. Try doing a research year where there is a program.

 

[Redpancreas]

I’m a US DO who just went through the scramble and came up empty handed.
My red flags:

Graduated in may of 2020.

2 comlex PE failures which I couldn’t even get a passing score for in time to get anything the first time i applied last cycle of 2019-2020.
Now the exam is cancelled for me since i was allowed to graduate but the cancellation didn’t come into effect until 03/11 of this year.

Low board scores only took comlex only first pass on both level 1 and level 2 CE.

Decent LORs
Good grades in clerkships.
This year I’ve been working a clinical job in my hometown.
My question is: what do i have to do next to have a shot at this. Do i even stand a chance still?

My thoughts are that i can possibly try to take usmle
Or maybe even try to take comlex level 3.

I applied psych the first time got 3 iv
Family med the second time only got 1 iv

Just feel lost

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

1.) Take COMLEX Step 3 and do well to ease concerns. If COMLEX 3 is anything like Step 3, there is a Computerized Clinical Simulation portion that tests how you'd manage real patients and doing well on that should assuage concerns about COMPLEX PE (CS equivalent). I don't think you should try the USMLE series because you'd have to start over and learn all the basic science facts and essentially do a large chunk of med school learning over again.
2.) Apply very broadly to FM this third time.
3.) Try to find a clinical observership in FM if you aren't doing this at your clinical job. Participate in that and get a letter from a new FM physician.
4.) Try to solicit connections to FM from your home school. DO schools honestly should have a strong network in the field.
5.) Continue the clinical job.
6.) If you have loans, look for options for loan forgiveness in the event that when you apply this third time and fail, you can appeal to have your loans forgiven to allow you to pursue something else you're passionate about without a presumably 200K+ loan on you.

 

[Wjldenver]

Here are some additional ideas from US News. Since you are not knocking it out of the park on your previous COMLEX exams, I would probably forgo any USMLE exams and just take the Level 3. MusicDOc124 had an interesting point. You should find out if the failed PE attempts will continue to be reflected on your NBOME transcript. If so, you will need to be prepared to discuss the previous fails. If not, you lucked out and can ignore those two red flags.

Good luck!

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/articles/2013/03/29/options-exist-for-med-students-without-residency-matches

 

[deleted966837]

I'm rooting for you! Next year I look forward to your update.

 

[ciestar]

Is it different for Step 3? Knew a Carib grad who took it 3-4 years after graduating and matched the following cycle (had a extremely strong push from someone influential that was told all he needed was a solid Step 3 to get a pre-match offer). I may be incorrect in thinking OP could.

Yeah it’s different for step 3

 

[SLC]

For everyone saying take comlex 3 you can’t unless you’re in a residency program. The exam has to be approved by your PD for you to take it

Is that new? I didn’t have to get permission when I took it. Scored a 780 too.

 

[Neopolymath]

Is that new? I didn’t have to get permission when I took it. Scored a 780 too.

Yeah, as part of getting rid of PE there is now a PD form basically attesting that you aren't a ***** and a med school dean form attesting the same thing.

 

[TwistedTea]

I’m a US DO who just went through the scramble and came up empty handed.
My red flags:

Graduated in may of 2020.

2 comlex PE failures which I couldn’t even get a passing score for in time to get anything the first time i applied last cycle of 2019-2020.
Now the exam is cancelled for me since i was allowed to graduate but the cancellation didn’t come into effect until 03/11 of this year.

Low board scores only took comlex only first pass on both level 1 and level 2 CE.

Decent LORs
Good grades in clerkships.
This year I’ve been working a clinical job in my hometown.
My question is: what do i have to do next to have a shot at this. Do i even stand a chance still?

My thoughts are that i can possibly try to take usmle
Or maybe even try to take comlex level 3.

I applied psych the first time got 3 iv
Family med the second time only got 1 iv

Just feel lost

How picky are you being w the FM programs? If you reach far there should be ones willing to take a AMG. I would not doubt there are still some open?

 

[TwistedTea]

T

He/she has to apply widely. I know of a community FM program personally whose APD has straight up told USDO students rotating at their hospital that they do not interview failed attempts no matter how well they do on a second attempt. Good program in terms of hours/training (not toxic) but in a very undesirable (crime-infested) area. The APD said it wasn't this strict pre-merger but the amount of applicants they've received since 2020 lets them be picky.

here are fam med progs w open spots usually tho in meh areas. Even in 2020 there has to be something unless this person has been black balled

 

[Ttriple-SEc]

https://www.nbome.org/Content/Exams/COMLEX-USA/COMLEX-USA_Level-3_Attestation_Guidelines.pdf

Per this Request I am eligible despite not being in residency!

Also took an NBME and am scoring ok enough that if I studied I could swing a decent score... Should I consider it?

 

[hungrydoc710]

Seems like the PE failures is the problem. Rotten luck.
Next cycle that won't show up, right? You should be good.
Make sure you're applying to bottom of the barrel programs and mostly community ones.

 

[cadingcading]

I’m a US DO who just went through the scramble and came up empty handed.
My red flags:

Graduated in may of 2020.

2 comlex PE failures which I couldn’t even get a passing score for in time to get anything the first time i applied last cycle of 2019-2020.
Now the exam is cancelled for me since i was allowed to graduate but the cancellation didn’t come into effect until 03/11 of this year.

Low board scores only took comlex only first pass on both level 1 and level 2 CE.

Decent LORs
Good grades in clerkships.
This year I’ve been working a clinical job in my hometown.
My question is: what do i have to do next to have a shot at this. Do i even stand a chance still?

My thoughts are that i can possibly try to take usmle
Or maybe even try to take comlex level 3.

I applied psych the first time got 3 iv
Family med the second time only got 1 iv

Just feel lost

Did you apply to all 400 FM programs, a bunch of TY programs and maybe some prelims? I hope you did.

 

[cadingcading]

You need to take Level 3. Period. And make connections. Is your school helping you at all?

 

[Mass Effect]

It's doubtful Level 3 will help you and it may very well hurt you. Do NOT take it unless you are 100% positive you will pass it. Your problem is PE. Failing it twice is worse than failing Level 1 and Level 2 combined. PDs don't want to take a shot on someone whose clinical skills aren't up to par. Unless those fails disappear from your transcript, you're going to have a very rough road ahead. I would forget psych. Psych depends on communication skills and two PE fails is just about guaranteed you won't match. I would apply to every single FM program in the country and go on every single interview and hope for the best.

 

[Redpancreas]

It's doubtful Level 3 will help you and it may very well hurt you. Do NOT take it unless you are 100% positive you will pass it. Your problem is PE. Failing it twice is worse than failing Level 1 and Level 2 combined. PDs don't want to take a shot on someone whose clinical skills aren't up to par. Unless those fails disappear from your transcript, you're going to have a very rough road ahead. I would forget psych. Psych depends on communication skills and two PE fails is just about guaranteed you won't match. I would apply to every single FM program in the country and go on every single interview and hope for the best.

OP doesn't have a choice though... They've failed to match twice and it's highly likely due to the PE failures. If only there was something objective to demonstrate one's ability to independently practice and test the material FM physicians need to know...oh wait there is! It's Step 3.

OP can do informal clinical rotations all they want, until the demonstrate proficiency on USMLE exams, there's going to be no change in the application.

I personally think it's so effed up that OP has to be dragged down by PE like this.

 

[cadingcading]

It's doubtful Level 3 will help you and it may very well hurt you. Do NOT take it unless you are 100% positive you will pass it. Your problem is PE. Failing it twice is worse than failing Level 1 and Level 2 combined. PDs don't want to take a shot on someone whose clinical skills aren't up to par. Unless those fails disappear from your transcript, you're going to have a very rough road ahead. I would forget psych. Psych depends on communication skills and two PE fails is just about guaranteed you won't match. I would apply to every single FM program in the country and go on every single interview and hope for the best.

A lot of IMGs who are still trying to match have taken Step 3. So this guy is going to have an uphill battle competing for the same spots with these guys. I think not taking it will hurt him.

 

[Mass Effect]

A lot of IMGs who are still trying to match have taken Step 3. So this guy is going to have an uphill battle competing for the same spots with these guys. I think not taking it will hurt him.

Like I said, unless 100% sure you'll pass, don't take it. The only thing worse than not taking Step 3 is taking it and failing it.

 

[Mass Effect]

OP doesn't have a choice though... They've failed to match twice and it's highly likely due to the PE failures. If only there was something objective to demonstrate one's ability to independently practice and test the material FM physicians need to know...oh wait there is! It's Step 3.

Yes, and a failed Step 3 will be the end of the OP's application, which is why I said not to take it unless 100% sure you'll pass it. That caveat is very important to what I was saying. Even if the OP passes, it's unlikely to help. All it'll do is level the playing field somewhat, but if the two PE fails are still on the transcript, even a passing Step 3 (outside of a superstar score) won't make up for it and a failing Step 3 will be the end or close to it.

Step 3 does not equal PE. It just doesn't. No matter how stupid we may think it is, a failed PE is bad and two failed PEs will hurt an application like nothing else. I feel for the OP because it's utterly ridiculous that there's no way to make up that score at this point. It should just be deleted if he/she isn't allowed the opportunity to take it again.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I’m a US DO who just went through the scramble and came up empty handed.
My red flags:

Graduated in may of 2020.

2 comlex PE failures which I couldn’t even get a passing score for in time to get anything the first time i applied last cycle of 2019-2020.
Now the exam is cancelled for me since i was allowed to graduate but the cancellation didn’t come into effect until 03/11 of this year.

Low board scores only took comlex only first pass on both level 1 and level 2 CE.

Decent LORs
Good grades in clerkships.
This year I’ve been working a clinical job in my hometown.
My question is: what do i have to do next to have a shot at this. Do i even stand a chance still?

My thoughts are that i can possibly try to take usmle
Or maybe even try to take comlex level 3.

I applied psych the first time got 3 iv
Family med the second time only got 1 iv

Just feel lost

Take level 3 (and pass). Apply to 250+ FM. It’s seriously a numbers game for you. I would go all out, it’s gonna be expensive.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

https://www.nbome.org/Content/Exams/COMLEX-USA/COMLEX-USA_Level-3_Attestation_Guidelines.pdf

Per this Request I am eligible despite not being in residency!

Also took an NBME and am scoring ok enough that if I studied I could swing a decent score... Should I consider it?

Only if you are 30 points above passing. Anything less would be a gamble IMO. So just for background I had a friend who failed level 1, he applied to FM, greater than 200 programs got 25+ interviews. However he only failed once and graduated this year, so I think you need more programs. I agree that level 3 needs to be passed also, that will make a difference for you. Not taking step 3 will hurt you, as it’s one of the few objective improvements you could do, so I agree with the above posters saying you should take it as soon as you are certain you can pass. Hopefully NBOME will not be reporting PE for you, but I wouldn’t hold your breath.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Did you apply to all 400 FM programs, a bunch of TY programs and maybe some prelims? I hope you did.

He didn’t, he would have got more than 1 interview if he did. Unfortunately the way this whole thing played out with the uncertainty around PE really hurt OP. No one wanted to touch him cause they thought he might fail again, and then NBOME didn’t clarify till it was too late for interviews. He should go 400 next time, I would also look at programs in SOAP. It’s possible he could get a spot this year also.
I would also apply to prelim and transition years next year, even surgery. It would suck but at least he would be eligible for a general medical in like 30 states.

 

[calivianya]

I feel like you should try to take step 1. Get a comprehensive board prep course like Kaplan or something (I used DIT and really liked it, but it seems like a lot of people don’t). If you could get an average step 1 score it might redeem you somewhat.

I know the odds are against you with poor comlex scores. We don’t know when apps can be sent out yet for next year (hopefully it’s October again), but you should have a solid four months to study at least, regardless. That’s enough time to finish a prep course plus do a full run through whatever qbank you haven’t used yet and do your incorrects again, especially since you’re just working and not going to school right now.

 

[Redpancreas]

Like I said, unless 100% sure you'll pass, don't take it. The only thing worse than not taking Step 3 is taking it and failing it.

OP is not matching without it anyways. I agree if OP scores low or fails it will be a kiss of death but OP will be in their third cycle of reapplying with a 2 year gap in clinical training if OP gets in this cycle and OP applied FM.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Yes, and a failed Step 3 will be the end of the OP's application, which is why I said not to take it unless 100% sure you'll pass it. That caveat is very important to what I was saying. Even if the OP passes, it's unlikely to help. All it'll do is level the playing field somewhat, but if the two PE fails are still on the transcript, even a passing Step 3 (outside of a superstar score) won't make up for it and a failing Step 3 will be the end or close to it.

Step 3 does not equal PE. It just doesn't. No matter how stupid we may think it is, a failed PE is bad and two failed PEs will hurt an application like nothing else. I feel for the OP because it's utterly ridiculous that there's no way to make up that score at this point. It should just be deleted if he/she isn't allowed the opportunity to take it again.

I generally agree with this line of thinking of not taking step/level 3 outside of residency, but in this case I'm not sure what else the OP does to improve their app. The OP failed to match in FM last year, and unless he does level 3 then the only difference this year seems to be that he'll be even a year further out from graduation. I would hope the OP applied to every FM program last year, but even if not I wouldn't count on simply expanding the program list (including going for all the prelim and TY programs out there) as being enough to lead to success this year.

The answer can't simply be "don't take level 3," it has to be "instead, do X." I struggle to imagine what "X" is at this point, and unless the OP can come up with something other than "a clinical job" which presumably is not doing him any good other than paying the bills, then level 3 might be worth the risk.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

For everyone saying take comlex 3 you can’t unless you’re in a residency program. The exam has to be approved by your PD for you to take it

False. There's an alternative pathway for those not in residency

Yes, and a failed Step 3 will be the end of the OP's application, which is why I said not to take it unless 100% sure you'll pass it.

Well, obviously he won't take it thinking he's going to fail. What kind of advice is that? Also, there's no such thing as 100% sure he'll pass. If he wants a shot at residency, passing this exam is his only hope. Without this test, his coffin will be for sure shut

I wonder what OP is doing wrong. Did he apply to less than 50 programs? A return of 1 IV is way too low without there being other problems like bad letter or rec or a poorly put together application with a terrible personal statement. OP needs to hire a professional service to look over his entire application. He needs to get letters from people he can 100% trust and are all part of FM. If I were OP, I would apply for 250 programs + 50 programs in preventative medicine and OMM + 50 prelim positions. In the meantime, he needs to actively be contacting every program in the country showing interest and gathering information if he'd be even considered. I know a guy that failed level 2 CE three times and managed to match, so OP is clearly doing something wrong.

 

[Mass Effect]

Well, obviously he won't take it thinking he's going to fail. What kind of advice is that? Also, there's no such thing as 100% sure he'll pass. If he wants a shot at residency, passing this exam is his only hope. Without this test, his coffin will be for sure shut

The 100% is a bit of hyperbole since no one can predict, but are you saying you don't see people posting about how they're barely above passing on practice exams and take the exam anyway? Sure some of them may believe they'll pass, but it's hardly even close to a sure thing and many will admit that. My statement was simply that the OP cannot afford to be one of these people.

I know a guy that failed level 2 CE three times and managed to match, so OP is clearly doing something wrong

Did he ever pass? Because three fails without an ultimate pass and still matching him makes that guy incredibly lucky.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

The 100% is a bit of hyperbole since no one can predict, but are you saying you don't see people posting about how they're barely above passing on practice exams and take the exam anyway? Sure some of them may believe they'll pass, but it's hardly even close to a sure thing and many will admit that. My statement was simply that the OP cannot afford to be one of these people.



Did he ever pass? Because three fails without an ultimate pass and still matching him makes that guy incredibly lucky.

Yeah, he passed on his 4th try

 

[Mass Effect]

He got 4 tries?! Most schools kick students out if they fail a 3rd attempt for any board exam.

Not to mention they can't be licensed in some states. I also think it should be noted that the OP doesn't get another try to prove himself whereas this person did.

 

[cadingcading]

I’m a US DO who just went through the scramble and came up empty handed.
My red flags:

Graduated in may of 2020.

2 comlex PE failures which I couldn’t even get a passing score for in time to get anything the first time i applied last cycle of 2019-2020.
Now the exam is cancelled for me since i was allowed to graduate but the cancellation didn’t come into effect until 03/11 of this year.

Low board scores only took comlex only first pass on both level 1 and level 2 CE.

Decent LORs
Good grades in clerkships.
This year I’ve been working a clinical job in my hometown.
My question is: what do i have to do next to have a shot at this. Do i even stand a chance still?

My thoughts are that i can possibly try to take usmle
Or maybe even try to take comlex level 3.

I applied psych the first time got 3 iv
Family med the second time only got 1 iv

Just feel lost

Would your school be willing to vouch for you saying that you did well during OSCEs or something? Like your dean should be making phone calls for you!! What is going on?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

He got 4 tries?! Most schools kick students out if they fail a 3rd attempt for any board exam.

Got a psychiatrist letter, so the school felt compelled to give him another shot

 

[Lawpy]

I'm lost how OP failed PE twice if they did well clinically

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I'm lost how OP failed PE twice if they did well clinically

It’s PE, people got failed in my class who were actually very strong clinically. It doesn’t correlate, which was one of the big reasons we wanted it to go. Also for OP NBOME says that they WILL report previous failures:
“
5. I have a previous failure on the COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE. Will this be erased from my transcript?
As COMLEX-USA is recognized by all U.S. state licensing boards for granting licenses, it is NBOME’s responsibility to provide comprehensive transcripts that include all exam history and results of COMLEX-USA examinations for state medical and osteopathic medical licensing boards. Therefore, we cannot remove examination results from official COMLEX-USA transcripts. We will annotate COMLEX-USA transcripts to note that the COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE was suspended on March 7, 2020 due to the pandemic, that temporary alternate pathways were provided, and that eligible candidates who complete the COMLEX-USA series of examinations via any of these pathways will be considered to have successfully completed the NBOME COMLEX-USA licensing examination program.”

 

[Wjldenver]

It’s PE, people got failed in my class who were actually very strong clinically. It doesn’t correlate, which was one of the big reasons we wanted it to go. Also for OP NBOME says that they WILL report previous failures:
“
5. I have a previous failure on the COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE. Will this be erased from my transcript?
As COMLEX-USA is recognized by all U.S. state licensing boards for granting licenses, it is NBOME’s responsibility to provide comprehensive transcripts that include all exam history and results of COMLEX-USA examinations for state medical and osteopathic medical licensing boards. Therefore, we cannot remove examination results from official COMLEX-USA transcripts. We will annotate COMLEX-USA transcripts to note that the COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE was suspended on March 7, 2020 due to the pandemic, that temporary alternate pathways were provided, and that eligible candidates who complete the COMLEX-USA series of examinations via any of these pathways will be considered to have successfully completed the NBOME COMLEX-USA licensing examination program.”

I'm becoming convinced that the PE exam is designed to trip up the unlucky few which were not trained to play an adequate role in an acting competition. The problem is, if you fail this exam even once, it comes back to haunt you years later. If you look at various fellowship programs on Freida, many indicate that you need to pass this exam the first time to be considered as a viable fellowship candidate. That's unfortunate in my opinion.

 

[Ttriple-SEc]

I have No way to improve my PE
I gotta Move forward. They’ll annotate the score report saying it’s suspended.

here’s the thing. I know level 3 will help. My written exams haven’t been a problem.
i feel i can pass level 3 with the work put in.
My problem is the impact of this....
Is getting into residency even a possibility now?
I fear that from the attitude of this thread it’s just too slim a chance even with a passed level 3.

 

[Lawpy]

I have No way to improve my PE
I gotta Move forward. They’ll annotate the score report saying it’s suspended.

here’s the thing. I know level 3 will help. My written exams haven’t been a problem.
i feel i can pass level 3 with the work put in.
My problem is the impact of this....
Is getting into residency even a possibility now?
I fear that from the attitude of this thread it’s just too slim a chance even with a passed level 3.

I think an FM program somewhere may take you in but i honestly have no idea since the 2x PE fail is something so rare that idk how programs will respond

 

[Redpancreas]

I have No way to improve my PE
I gotta Move forward. They’ll annotate the score report saying it’s suspended.

here’s the thing. I know level 3 will help. My written exams haven’t been a problem.
i feel i can pass level 3 with the work put in.
My problem is the impact of this....
Is getting into bunny boot camp even a possibility now?
I fear that from the attitude of this thread it’s just too slim a chance even with a passed level 3.

In rare situations like yours SDN is supportive but not particularly good for prognostication so I wouldn't place much stock in it. There are only three things that increase your chances of matching now and you just have to focus on them.

1.) Take Level 3 and pass by a good margin. Not taking it at this point would be a mistake because you're residency stock is dropping exponentially by year.
2.) Apply to a greater range of programs than you have already if possible. Applying to all of them is not an unrealistic suggestion. Family Medicine, Preventative Medicine, and Occupational Medicine should all be on your list.
3.) Exhaust every possible connection from your medical school.

If you don't match this time, I say you pursue another career (perhaps consulting, insurance work, etc.) and pursue paths for loan forgiveness because the chances of someone after 3 failed attempts is poor. While working a clinical job is nice, if it is not something affiliated with a medical school or residency program, it means nothing even if you get a glowing LoR.

 

[Redpancreas]

I generally agree with this line of thinking of not taking step/level 3 outside of bunny boot camp, but in this case I'm not sure what else the OP does to improve their app. The OP failed to match in FM last year, and unless he does level 3 then the only difference this year seems to be that he'll be even a year further out from graduation. I would hope the OP applied to every FM program last year, but even if not I wouldn't count on simply expanding the program list (including going for all the prelim and TY programs out there) as being enough to lead to success this year.

The answer can't simply be "don't take level 3," it has to be "instead, do X." I struggle to imagine what "X" is at this point, and unless the OP can come up with something other than "a clinical job" which presumably is not doing him any good other than paying the bills, then level 3 might be worth the risk.

Exactly. For those telling OP to be cautious about Level 3 should provide an alternative for what OP should do instead because it's not like time is on OP's side here. There's literally nothing else OP can do besides what I outlined in the last post. In fact, during the last round if I was a PD, I would have asked OP why he did not take Level 3 given his issue was with a board exam and he still had a board exam remaining. In terms of a clinical job, no one is going to let an unlicensed MD graduate to do anything clinically because the medical liability's huge.

Yes, and a failed Step 3 will be the end of the OP's Easter egg collection, which is why I said not to take it unless 100% sure you'll pass it. That caveat is very important to what I was saying. Even if the OP passes, it's unlikely to help. All it'll do is level the playing field somewhat, but if the two PE fails are still on the transcript, even a passing Step 3 (outside of a superstar score) won't make up for it and a failing Step 3 will be the end or close to it.

Step 3 does not equal PE. It just doesn't. No matter how stupid we may think it is, a failed PE is bad and two failed PEs will hurt an Easter egg collection like nothing else. I feel for the OP because it's utterly ridiculous that there's no way to make up that score at this point. It should just be deleted if he/she isn't allowed the opportunity to take it again.

If OP fails to match again, he's virtually at the end of his medical career anyways. @Ttriple-SEc there's actually not that much time. It's April (4/2021) and applications are due in October (10/2021) for this next cycle. Get the registration process for Level 3 started and start extensive preparation ASAP. I'm not sure about Level 3 but my residency experience was pretty important to doing well on USMLE Step 3. You don't have that so you're going to need more time to study given that and the fact that it's been 2 years since some of your main rotations. You're going to look outside the box for preparation instead of what most people recommend residents do. Contact every single person you interacted with in medical school and tell them your situation and ask for letters/support. Look for any potential openings you may be eligible for July 2021 start date.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I have No way to improve my PE
I gotta Move forward. They’ll annotate the score report saying it’s suspended.

here’s the thing. I know level 3 will help. My written exams haven’t been a problem.
i feel i can pass level 3 with the work put in.
My problem is the impact of this....
Is getting into residency even a possibility now?
I fear that from the attitude of this thread it’s just too slim a chance even with a passed level 3.

Let me be clear: I think you can match if you pass level 3 and actually go all out on applying this year (250+ minimum). If I was you I would be doing 2 things;
1. Getting registered for level 3 and using whatever qBank I preferred to prepare (COMQUEST for me). Go through questions a minimum of 2 times, cause you can’t goof this.
2. Borrow/beg/plead/save/open a credit card to make sure I had at least 10K for apps so I could apply to ideally 400 programs, but at least 250.

People do match in residency on the third try. I personally know of two different people who did. You just need the numbers. And you need to go all out. I knew one guy who failed a board, was a foreign grad and who applied to every IM program. I don’t know how much it cost, but now he’s a PGY2 and he will get to be a physician, so I think it was worth it. Quit looking at this thread, go do what I and others have told you and come back and update us next March.

 

[deleted1100659]

as someone who was in the selection process for my program previously, I will say if youre applying psychiatry it really strongly helps to show you have a solid interest in the field and a good world view (meaning a fair amount of unique experiences). Grades/scores get you an interview at my program but we have interviewed people on the lower end of scores who had unique experiences, great letters, etc. I will say the caliber of applicants this year was extremely strong and impressive people.

Don't give up. Call the programs you didnt match at, ask why you were ranked low. Remember scores are just one domain. Sometimes people dont click well on the interview or give off a certain vibe. I wish you the best and I hope you succeed

Also make sure youre applying very broadly.

 

[DrNoo]

COMLEX-USA and Applying to Residency COVID-19 FAQS — NBOME

www.nbome.org

Are there plans to eliminate the option to submit a Level 2-PE transcript for ERAS for this cycle? Can the NBOME just not report any COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE scores, even for those who have taken it?


When a transcript is requested through ERAS, the NBOME has an obligation to report complete examination history of COMLEX-USA. Withholding reporting of any licensure examination results is a violation of ERAS guidelines, and has been grounds for irregular conduct related to nondisclosure of important information reportable to state medical licensing boards. We will continue to advocate that students should not be held accountable for results of licensure exams that they have been unable to take due to the pandemic.

 

[Ttriple-SEc]

They keep saying they advocate for not being helaccountable for an exam people haven’t had the chance to retake..
i seriously doubt that they’ve truly don’t anything. People wanna see what’s in front of them in writing. One thing this process has taught me is that sympathy or being a “good guy or gal” doesn’t get you very far. Bad luck hurts and only concrete evidences are considered. Sub i’s may allow you to showcase yourself as a good hardworking person but I’ve know plenty that have gotten passed up from stellar auditions for someone that’s a “700+” stallion which no knock to them but it’s just the reality of the game.

it’s my fault I’m here. It will be my own responsibility to get me out and if programs See my flaws and still want me then that’s where I’m destined to end up. Or wind up out of medicine entirely which I’m gonna fight to not let happen.

 

[Ttriple-SEc]

So to give an update nbome most likely will not be allowing me to take comlex level 3. I submitted all my paperwork quite some time ago but they told me about the rule to have at least 6 months of residency work as a requirement.

They are keeping people like me who failed the Pe in a “temporary holding pattern” and are deciding on additional attestation requirements from my last contact with them.

I don’t want to give up but it seems like it’s game over.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Wait a sec. They have the alternative pathway listed on their website. The documentation says they wil revisit in 2020, but it's still listed there. This is their policy, they can't just make up something else about 6 months of GME needed. They can change the rules if they want going forward, but as-of now (and when you submitted your request) the old rules are in force.

You should be able to force them to allow you to take Level 3. Probably will require a lawyer. You could figure out whom sued them for the whole "must join the AOA to be board certified" issue and see if they are interested, although there's probably no monetary outcome for them so probably not. It's possible that a well written letter by you stating that you meet their published criteria, and that if they don't allow you to proceed you will get a lawyer involved might get them to budge. Or just pay for a lawyer to write a letter on lawyer stationery.

 

[Neopolymath]

Wait a sec. They have the alternative pathway listed on their website. The documentation says they wil revisit in 2020, but it's still listed there. This is their policy, they can't just make up something else about 6 months of GME needed. They can change the rules if they want going forward, but as-of now (and when you submitted your request) the old rules are in force.

You should be able to force them to allow you to take Level 3. Probably will require a lawyer. You could figure out whom sued them for the whole "must join the AOA to be board certified" issue and see if they are interested, although there's probably no monetary outcome for them so probably not. It's possible that a well written letter by you stating that you meet their published criteria, and that if they don't allow you to proceed you will get a lawyer involved might get them to budge. Or just pay for a lawyer to write a letter on lawyer stationery.

I believe OP failed Comlex PE. If that is the case, the NBOME requires 6 months of intern year before allowing to register Everyone else is "recommended" to do 6 months of intern year (lol yeah ok).

 

[NotAProgDirector]

From the NBOME Website:

The NBOME has created a temporary, alternate pathway for candidates have never participated in any residency program and therefore unable to attain a residency program director attestation. NBOME plans to study and reassess this alternate pathway in 2020, as the single accreditation system for graduate medical education is fully implemented and data regarding this alternate pathway can be analyzed. The following conditions must be met in order to obtain an attestation via an alternate pathway:
• The candidate has met the COM graduation requirements and has been awarded a graduation diploma. The attestation will be required from the candidate’s dean of their college of osteopathic medicine who will attest that, as of the date of meeting the graduation requirements listed above, the candidate was in good academic and professional standing.
• The candidate has never participated in an accredited GME program where the candidate could receive an attestation from a residency program director.
• The candidate agrees the score report and transcript will include an “O” annotation for this COMLEX-USA Level 3 score when reported indicating the candidate was not in an active GME program and an alternate pathway for COMLEX-USA Level 3 attestation was obtained in order to take the examination.
• The candidate agrees to supply additional information to the NBOME after the examination in order to complete a comprehensive study of the alternate pathway by 2020. This information will include the candidate’s future status in obtaining a residency position or other opportunity with the related details
. • The candidate will comply with all requirements, terms and conditions as listed in the COMLEX-USA Bulletin of Information.

Please submit the petition to your dean’s office for completion. Once completed, your dean will return the signed petition to the Vice President for Administration/ Chief Operating Officer of the NBOME at the address listed on the form, or email [email protected]

As long as the OP has the support of their prior Dean, I don't see how the NBOME can refuse them.

 

[Ttriple-SEc]

So to add another update got a 220 on step 1

 

[BorntobeDO?]

So to add another update got a 220 on step 1

That’s really impressive at this point. Well done, especially so far away from medical school classes.

 

[Ttriple-SEc]

Thank you!
I feel like I have a story to tell about perseverance throughout all of this. I also was able to secure an observership in family medicine With a program associated with my school.