Feedback on Medical School Pursuit Plan

[justchuck]

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1. I am 27 years old, I currently hold a 1.74 GPA across 100.5 GPA hours and 3 institutions (87.5 GPA hours at 1 institution, 13 GPA hours at another institution, and a semester of withdrawals--no grades--at a third institution). I began college in Fall 2010, left in Fall 2013 (failed classes due to lack of attendance), retried at 2nd university in Spring 2015, failed that semester (due to late withdrawal), then attempted again in summer and fall of 2016 at first institution (failing both times due to attendance), then tried again Spring 2017 at a third institution, but withdrew with no grade penalty. NOTE: Most of these hours were non-science, except for a 2-4 classes, which were for non-science majors.

2. My family and I are financially secure, just resigned from my job to pursue medical school by way of starting undergrad once more with a full focus.

3. Family is very stable, very happy; wife and 2 daughters (3 years and 6 months). The oldest was diagnosed with autism (to a severe degree, and such a point that she is a unique case), so that has been, and continues to be a tremendous challenge. She is an impetus of my love for medicine.

Preface to the plan:

• I will make a 4.0 in school. I have a lot of accountability this time around, and quite a number of family and friends who support me. I graduated top of my class in high school, so the work is not an issue for me if I just go to class (I actually did my work and took exams in previous years, just didn't go to class). Most importantly, I am excited for school this time. I have burned through all of Khan Academy material (100% completion and 100% on every course challenge) in preparation for wanting to get the most out of my learning.
• I served in the Army National Guard for 6 years, with several leadership awards. The military was a highly contributing factor in me failing/withdrawing from school in the past on a few occasions, but now I am free from that obligation.
• I worked as a Health Coach at the local county YMCA Association for 2.5 years, in which I became an authority figure in nutrition, health and exercise performance, through rigorous research and study of my own. Additionally becoming the informal leader there, which is partially why I left the position.
• I am currently a semi-professional athlete in the sport of fitness, which is a determining factor in me getting my act together in the pursuit of absolute excellence over the past couple of years.
• I say all of this to informally reveal that I can do the work, I am an expert communicator and consistently recognized as a leader in any environment I step into. I am not being haughty, only laying a clear picture onto the framework from which I intend to build.
• I specifically want to get into a surgical specialty, and I understand they are very competitive, and it has been recommended I pursue an MD school over DO (which I want anyway). I also want to attend a school where the name itself exudes excellence when mentioned, not for the sake of prestige, but because, just like working with special operations in the military, I want to work with the best of the best, those who I KNOW care fervently about the art and science of whatever it is they are doing and pursuing, and took special levels of discipline combined with sacrifice to get there.

Questions:

I am currently at an impasse, due to the lack of knowledge of what admissions staff will look for, in addition to my timeline being a bit tighter than if I was fresh in college. My questions are:

1. Would adcoms rather see me simply complete a new degree? This will require 105 hours in a Biology-Clinical Track program at the institution where I currently have 87.5 GPA hours and a 2.0 GPA, 13 of those hours would be completed at my previous 2-year college; this would bring my cumulative gpa across all institutions to 2.89, assuming the 4.0 for all 105 hours of the new program. I could theoretically get this done in 3 years.​

2. Would adcoms rather see me re-do all of my failed/D courses in addition to completing the new degree? This will require 105 hours for the Biology-Clinical track program plus 30 hours at the same institution to redo courses, and 13 hours of redoing courses at institution 2 (which is 6 hours away, so would require me moving temporarily). Knowing MD schools do not replace grades with better grades, but actually average them together, this would still only bring my GPA to 3.086 across all institutions, in addition to taking more time; I could theoretically get this done in 4 years.​

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NOTES: In case anyone wonders whether I have thought about clinical experience and volunteering, I have access to some doctors who are ready to give me shadowing and clinical experience opportunities after I prove my grades over the next 2 semesters. Formal research is available, but again, my first 2 semesters are the pre-req for getting in anywhere for this as well.

Thank you in advance

 

[Rachapkis]

I have two tips. First, I would avoid dubbing yourself the greatest thing since sliced bread, especially before you've accomplished your goal. It makes you sound conceited if not naive. Let your actions do the talking. Second, and more directly to your questions, read Goro's advice for students who need reinvention. Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[justchuck]

I have two tips. First, I would avoid dubbing yourself the greatest thing since sliced bread, especially before you've accomplished your goal. It makes you sound conceited if not naive. Let your actions do the talking. Second, and more directly to your questions, read Goro's advice for students who need reinvention. Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

I was simply giving positive features to see if there was any advice on that which I could use to my advantage. I abhor promoting myself, much more than most, and am rather embarrassed I did not more clearly communicate my reasoning and perspective of some parts of this post.

To your direction of Goro's advice, that is incredible, thank you.

 

[esob]

Honestly, no reasonable amount of classes would bring your current gpa up to a level where it would be deemed acceptable to an MD school. Your choices are to either wait out the 10 year limit and move to TX for academic fresh start or crank through a rigorous SMP and accept (hopefully) some DO invites. DO will not prevent you from surgery. It might require you to be slightly more competitive than your MD counterparts but it won't preclude you from it.

 

[justchuck]

Honestly, no reasonable amount of classes would bring your current gpa up to a level where it would be deemed acceptable to an MD school. Your choices are to either wait out the 10 year limit and move to TX for academic fresh start or crank through a rigorous SMP and accept (hopefully) some DO invites. DO will not prevent you from surgery. It might require you to be slightly more competitive than your MD counterparts but it won't preclude you from it.

Would it make any significant difference if I live about 5 minutes from a medical school, in terms of communicating with the school throughout my endeavors? It is a small and very new medical school, but one nonetheless. I have just found out within the time since posting this that I have coached an athlete who’s spouse is a physician at the same hospital, and is an assistant professor there.

 

[stayathomemom]

Would it make any significant difference if I live about 5 minutes from a medical school, in terms of communicating with the school throughout my endeavors? It is a small and very new medical school, but one nonetheless. I have just found out within the time since posting this that I have coached an athlete who’s spouse is a physician at the same hospital, and is an assistant professor there.

You're reaching for straws here. Just because you know a guy, does not mean you should base your shot at becoming a physician on it. He's an assistant professor, not a miracle worker.

 

[justchuck]

You're reaching for straws here. Just because you know a guy, does not mean you should base your shot at becoming a physician on it. He's an assistant professor, not a miracle worker.

Straws are all I seem to have at this point, just thought I would ask.

 

[stayathomemom]

Straws are all I seem to have at this point, just thought I would ask.

If all you have are straws, you need to start over. Take the advice of esob. It's not impossible. Good luck.

 

[DocOrBust2019]

First things first: anyone attending a medical school cares about what they are doing, sacrificed to be there, and is likely among the best of the best. You don't get into medical school by accident. Anyone who is working as faculty at a medical school is the same. They all care and are all doing their very best. With your GPA, it would take a miracle to get into a prestigious institution. Like you'd need to cure cancer. Keep in mind there are many 4.0 students who went to ivy league UGs with 95+ percentile MCATs that don't get into the most prestigious schools.

As you and others have said, it will take a tremendous amount of school work at a 4.0 in order to get to a 3.0. Basically, 4+ years of school. That said, it's possible and many of us in this forum are going down a long road to reinvention.

I think that your best and easiest bet is to move to Texas and go for fresh start if you are only open to MD, but you should be aware that you will still be able to pursue surgery as a DO, and you will have better odds at getting in.

GPA wise, you won't be competitive for DO or MD even if you get to a 3.0, but if the rest of your app is great(including a killer MCAT) then you should be able to get in somewhere.

I'd try to get some research experience in, and definitely recommend getting clinical experience in.whatever path you go down.

Good luck.(Move to Texas where you can shed the weight of your old GPA for Texas med schools.)

 

[FreeMedEd]

Would it make any significant difference if I live about 5 minutes from a medical school, in terms of communicating with the school throughout my endeavors? It is a small and very new medical school, but one nonetheless. I have just found out within the time since posting this that I have coached an athlete who’s spouse is a physician at the same hospital, and is an assistant professor there.

It is unlikely to assist as the school is likely already very busy and unable to provide the type of support you may require. US medical schools are extremely competitive, with only about a half of applicants being accepted. So you need to ask yourself, "am I in the top 40-50%?" If the answer is "no" or even "not likely" you may want to seek medical education outside of the US.

 

[RNthenDoc]

I specifically want to get into a surgical specialty, and I understand they are very competitive, and it has been recommended I pursue an MD school over DO (which I want anyway). I also want to attend a school where the name itself exudes excellence when mentioned, not for the sake of prestige, but because, just like working with special operations in the military, I want to work with the best of the best, those who I KNOW care fervently about the art and science of whatever it is they are doing and pursuing, and took special levels of discipline combined with sacrifice to get there.

You have to realize that you aren't describing yourself here at all. You'd actually be the worst:

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

I don't say that to be mean or harsh, but you have to recognize that you're coming in here as an insanely terrible applicant to medical school, and already talking about how you only want the best of the best and not a DO school. Look at that chart.

I believe you have changed and are no longer irresponsible like you were, but your jobs now to spend the next years of your life proving that fact with more than words. As the other's have said, you have a rough path ahead (but not impossible) to get accepted to *any* medical school, much less one that carries a big name. You're essentially sunk, but if you're willing to spend years and years just for a shot... I'm sure stranger things have happened. Best of luck, though (sincerely!).

 

[justchuck]

Thank you, the more I re-skimmed my post, the more I cringed as I see how the meritorious overview of my career is horrendous, but I and others I have interacted with know what I can and have done. I have been in an awkward situation for a long time, because people frequently think I graduated college simply for my keen interest in education and research/inquiry. I am going back for 4 years full-time. Having been a college athlete prior to sinking in school, striving for top-tier medical schools to me is very similar to striving to play for a specific professional sports team, rather than just any professional team: every team has bad years where others can shine, but there is still something special about the identity of your favorite. As the saying goes: aim small miss small.

 

[DocOrBust2019]

Sure, aim small miss small, but you also want to be realistic in your expectations. Your only honest chance at a top tier school is to move to Texas, get a 4.0 for 3 years of academic fresh start, and knock the MCAT out of the park. Then you'd have a shot at Baylor. Even then you should realize their median MCAT is 518(95+ percentile) and median GPA accepted is 3.93.

I'm not saying any of this to knock you. I am sure you have accomplished many great things, and if you had been passionate and focused on school in the past you'd be at least semi competitive for top schools, MCAT dependent. That is the case for many of us on this forum. Many of us have to fix mistakes we made several years ago. I also have Fs on my transcript from foolish decisions and life getting in the way.

The facts are what they are: at a top school, many of the applicants are D1 athletes, Rhodes scholars, professional musicians, etc. Many of them have also been heavily immersed in research and are published many times over, often as first authors. Some of them are vets. The key is they have extracurriculars that are as impressive as anyone, but they ALSO never put themselves in a bad position with their GPAs, so they have 4.0s outright, not 4.0s for the last 4 years as an upward trend. They scored 95th+ percentile on the MCAT.

I wish you the best of luck, but where you are now, even with those 4 years of a 4.0 you'll be so far below the 10th percentile at top schools you'd likely be screened out. Your only realistic shot at a T20 school (Baylor) is to move to Tx and be perfect for your degree, and in the MCAT.

What you should realize is this: your career will be medicine if you make it. When you're playing in the pros(working), nobody is very much impressed with where you went to school anymore. Do you think going to the U really made Ed Reed more fearsome to opposing offenses in the NFL? Is that why Peyton hated playing against him? Of course not. Similarly, you can get a residency at a top program like Harvard or Yale from almost any medical school if you're impressive enough during med school. For example, Rocky Vista's D.O. school places a few people in top residency programs every year.