Feeling hopeless, any tips or advice??

[asdhd6]

Hey all,

I guess I am looking for information on what to do as at this point as I feel like all my chances of ever getting into a med school in the States have been crushed. I graduated as a music major/psychology minor and after many personal/family problems in health I started volunteering at a hospital for 6 months and decided that this was the field I wanted to get into. Needless to say, I started as an open registered student at the Harvard Extension and gave it my best. After a whole year of physics and chemistry, I came away with a B-, two C's, and a C+. I have my undergrad science courses which I had to take which was a bio A-, and a intro chem at a cc which was also an A. I don't know what to do at this point though, I feel like as a post bacc student all of my chances are shot. I was thinking maybe I'd register as an actual student in a post bacc program since I didn't do that at HES. Does anyone have any insight into what I should do? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

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[DrMidlife]

Doctors are a tiny subset of healthcare/hospital/clinic professionals. Many people who make a huge difference in the health prospects of patients do not get there through science coursework and/or insanely competitive admissions for MD/DO/PA/etc programs.

Consider MPH, MPA, MSW, BSN, LPN, OT, PT, Aud. Consider art therapy, music therapy, IT, human resources, community outreach.

Or, if you're hellbent to be a doctor, then you have multiple additional years of painful academics to get a chance at med school followed by about a decade of training that is more rigorous than the premed work. All this difficult science at HarvardX is just a preview of what you have to get through in med school and practice. If your best possible effort gets you B's and C's in the prereqs, then to get an MD or DO you very simply have to acquire the focus, discipline, work ethic, and/or study skills to conquer hard science coursework. You very simply have to be proficient at hours-long standardized tests on that hard science coursework. Consider whether you would enjoy any of that effort, and whether you would resent the attempt if you do not succeed. Some people are not discouraged by these obstacles, and end up in med school.

Best of luck to you.

 

[kayak30]

I'm in a similar position as you, so I know exactly how you feel. I still plan to take the MCAT to see how well I score, and I am applying to 1 school this cycle.

I was advised to look into MS to show I can handle the upper-level sciences. I'm trying to figure out MS programs to apply to that would give me the best shot at continuing to pursue my dream.

I don't know what I would do without the advice on SDN

Good luck to you

 

[beBrave]

Hey all,

I guess I am looking for information on what to do as at this point as I feel like all my chances of ever getting into a med school in the States have been crushed. I graduated as a music major/psychology minor and after many personal/family problems in health I started volunteering at a hospital for 6 months and decided that this was the field I wanted to get into. Needless to say, I started as an open registered student at the Harvard Extension and gave it my best. After a whole year of physics and chemistry, I came away with a B-, two C's, and a C+. I have my undergrad science courses which I had to take which was a bio A-, and a intro chem at a cc which was also an A. I don't know what to do at this point though, I feel like as a post bacc student all of my chances are shot. I was thinking maybe I'd register as an actual student in a post bacc program since I didn't do that at HES. Does anyone have any insight into what I should do? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

Retake any Pre-req science course work that you earned less than a B in. Allopathic schools will include all grades earned in the calculation while DO schools will only take the highest. Don't go down the path of trying out other health care fields if what you want to be is a Doctor. Do some soul searching and try shadowing a few different fields if you aren't completely sure about Medical school; if you are certain on being a Doctor though, then don't waste time on other fields. Study very hard for the MCAT, consider enrolling in a MCAT training program; the director of my Major calls the MCAT the great equalizer. Do well on the MCAT; improve grades for Pre-req science classes and then apply. GL. Don't give up so easily on anything. You will have to pay your dues to earn your way. Don't forget this.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I'm sorry to hear this is happening to you. The importance of post bacc grades cannot be emphasized enough. You spent an entire year on this, so you can't say you didn't try. Unfortunately, it sounds like you will need to make plans toward a different career. Not everyone that wants to become a doctor can. Don't fall into the gamblers trap of betting more when you're already in the red hoping things will magically change. Fortunately, there are good career alternatives you can pursue.

 

[asdhd6]

I am currently enrolled in bio for the summer back home in Chicago, but I am not giving up my dream. I plan on retaking the pre reqs if all goes well at the institution I am currently at and studying for the MCAT for next June. Thank you so much for the encouraging words! No way could I give up now, I want this too badly. Thank you everyone for reminding me what's important. I appreciate it a lot.

 

[Anastomoses]

Ehh, study your butt off for your MCAT and see how that goes. This all depends on how certain you are that you want to do this. Then apply. If your MCAT is not so hot...apply abroad and get it together there. You wanna be a doctor? Be a doctor.

 

[Goro]

Very poor advice. OP has shown that he/she has not managed to excel in a post-bac, when we AdCom members specifically want and need to see academic excellence in such a program.


You know how hard medical school is...OP would be crushed by a medical school curriculum. Becoming an FMG would just mean an inability to find a residency.

Ehh, study your butt off for your MCAT and see how that goes. This all depends on how certain you are that you want to do this. Then apply. If your MCAT is not so hot...apply abroad and get it together there. You wanna be a doctor? Be a doctor.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Sounds like you are really burnt out and trying too hard. I was stuck in that cycle of ever repeating classes trying for that A and never really getting there only to become more defeated and depressed in the process. What I did was take a break. Got a job in healthcare, did other things. Travelled, had a family, etc. When I was ready to go back (I took a 3 year break) I took all the pre-req's again at the same time while working and couldn't believe how much easier the coursework was. Sometimes you just need to take a step back and regroup. Still took me 3 more years after that to get accepted but it will happen when the time is right.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Very poor advice. OP has shown that he/she has not managed to excel in a post-bac, when we AdCom members specifically want and need to see academic excellence in such a program.


You know how hard medical school is...OP would be crushed by a medical school curriculum. Becoming an FMG would just mean an inability to find a residency.

This. x 100. I hate that it seems to always be either Goro, TPM or I who have to point this out. OP, you need to consider a success-possible plan. Putting your eggs in the medical school basket isn't one. AND THAT'S OK. There are a whole bunch of equally "good" healthcare or science based careers. Consider your options, and best of luck.

 

[beBrave]

Sounds like you are really burnt out and trying too hard. I was stuck in that cycle of ever repeating classes trying for that A and never really getting there only to become more defeated and depressed in the process. What I did was take a break. Got a job in healthcare, did other things. Travelled, had a family, etc. When I was ready to go back (I took a 3 year break) I took all the pre-req's again at the same time while working and couldn't believe how much easier the coursework was. Sometimes you just need to take a step back and regroup. Still took me 3 more years after that to get accepted but it will happen when the time is right.

OP don't give up; this is the only advice you should be listening to. Rest and regroup.

 

[Balantidiumcoli]

I was stuck in that cycle of ever repeating classes trying for that A and never really getting there only to become more defeated and depressed in the process..

Getting there feels bloody amazing though.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Getting there feels bloody amazing though.

Absolutely, I am thankful every single day.

 

[beBrave]

I think that this is a very insightful reply.

I think its insightful but not looking at the core issue. If OP is doing poorly as a Pre-Med, changing fields won't magically solve the problem. Keep in mind that the majority of the career paths mentioned require similar or the same classes as a pre-med to apply. Just because they aren't MD/DO programs does not make the programs any less competitive and require lower grades. Jumping fields is a bad idea (virtually every program ask for a minimum of a 3.0 GPA). This person is burnt; he/she needs to work on themselves and recharge. All health care fields require good grades (especially in science classes). Jumping from one field to another is a vicious cycle. OP does need to do some soul searching but thinking that one field is going to be less competitive than another is incorrect. Any nursing school student; PA or person working in even Mental Health will attest to the difficulty. OP needs to fix his/her life; if this leads to a change in the field they pursue then so be it but suggesting that their problem directly lies in the field is wrong.

 

[DrMidlife]

Keep in mind that the majority of the career paths mentioned require similar or the same classes as a pre-med to apply.

Yes, if by majority you mean minority. The majority is this:

Consider MPH, MPA, MSW, BSN, LPN, OT, PT, Aud. Consider art therapy, music therapy, IT, human resources, community outreach.

Strike out PT and you're looking at a dramatic decrease in academic rigor. Which was my point: that academic effort is a thing you have to be good at, or pick a career that doesn't have as much academic rigor.

 

[Quizlet04]

As an aside, Harvard Extension is really excellent and very well-structured. If you were struggling, you might not have been reaching out for the correct resources. I would say take a look for ochem. E2A and E2b are fantastic.

 

[Jewels86]

To the OP...you do sound burned out. Take a break and try again.

Please, unless you want the other ancillary positions such as nursing (I have my BSN), don't do it. When I decided to become a nurse, I liked what nurses did...except gossip

So...take a break...or if that stresses you out, take a "fun" course such as into to kinesology so you can teach your future patients how to exercise correctly so they won't need an oxygen tank when they walk from here to there.

Keep your eyes on the prize. And print up something from google images of what will remind you daily of your goal...photo of a stethoscope, photo of a lab coat, car you'll buy, boat, house, girl/dude, pet...something to keep you going forward

 

[asdhd6]

To the OP...you do sound burned out. Take a break and try again.

Please, unless you want the other ancillary positions such as nursing (I have my BSN), don't do it. When I decided to become a nurse, I liked what nurses did...except gossip

So...take a break...or if that stresses you out, take a "fun" course such as into to kinesology so you can teach your future patients how to exercise correctly so they won't need an oxygen tank when they walk from here to there.

Keep your eyes on the prize. And print up something from google images of what will remind you daily of your goal...photo of a stethoscope, photo of a lab coat, car you'll buy, boat, house, girl/dude, pet...something to keep you going forward

thank you guys for all of your input. it's definitely been helping me! I will be finishing up this bio summer course and then hopefully take a break...I currently am considering though going into nursing, I found out I wouldn't really need to do a full bsn since I already have my bachelors, but I am missing one or two classes(anat/phys and orgo) to go into a graduate RN/specialist type program. may I ask what you think of nursing? what are the ups/downs, is the gossip really that bad??

 

[Jewels86]

I like nursing for what nursing is. I really like the interactions with the patients and their families. I enjoy explaining how and why of their labs, procedures, etc only after the doctor has talked to them. Nursing is a different animal than medicine; not bad or better, just different.

The ups...patient interactions. Teaching, hugging, crying with the families that lost a loved one, getting into the mind of a patient who, for whatever reason, may not take their meds, understand their diabetes, congestive heart failure, etc.

The downs...can't "think" for myself except for emergent conditions. Although this is very state-dependent, here in Texas, I am not allowed to anything invasive without a physican's order. No IV's, nothing.

Gossip...yes. And can get very bad depending on management. This HAS to be nipped in the bud. You can be shorter, taller, wear bigger shoe size, smaller shoe size, look great in your scrubs, look scruffy in your scrubs, wear cute glasses, wear glasses with a smudge on them...it doesn't matter, it's all bad. Goggle "Bullying amongst other nurses" and you will read horror stories of people with decades of experience leaving the profession because of this. It's bad and no one will take care of it. It hurts patients but no one will put a stop to it. If someone did and got rid of these nurses, there wouldn't be but a handful of nurses left.

Here's an example of what happened to me a while back: I can passibly speak another language (not Spanish) and offered to take a patient from one of these nurses who signed up for a patient that spoke that same language minutes prior. Hadn't been in the room, nothing. I told her that I speak the same language and I can take them. This nurse looked at the tech and said, "I can't stand her." For what...she's one of them.

 

[beBrave]

I like nursing for what nursing is. I really like the interactions with the patients and their families. I enjoy explaining how and why of their labs, procedures, etc only after the doctor has talked to them. Nursing is a different animal than medicine; not bad or better, just different.

The ups...patient interactions. Teaching, hugging, crying with the families that lost a loved one, getting into the mind of a patient who, for whatever reason, may not take their meds, understand their diabetes, congestive heart failure, etc.

The downs...can't "think" for myself except for emergent conditions. Although this is very state-dependent, here in Texas, I am not allowed to anything invasive without a physican's order. No IV's, nothing.

Gossip...yes. And can get very bad depending on management. This HAS to be nipped in the bud. You can be shorter, taller, wear bigger shoe size, smaller shoe size, look great in your scrubs, look scruffy in your scrubs, wear cute glasses, wear glasses with a smudge on them...it doesn't matter, it's all bad. Goggle "Bullying amongst other nurses" and you will read horror stories of people with decades of experience leaving the profession because of this. It's bad and no one will take care of it. It hurts patients but no one will put a stop to it. If someone did and got rid of these nurses, there wouldn't be but a handful of nurses left.

Here's an example of what happened to me a while back: I can passibly speak another language (not Spanish) and offered to take a patient from one of these nurses who signed up for a patient that spoke that same language minutes prior. Hadn't been in the room, nothing. I told her that I speak the same language and I can take them. This nurse looked at the tech and said, "I can't stand her." For what...she's one of them.

Sadly, as Doctor Kelso mentions on scrubs, nurses can be a group of ingrates and gossip hounds however the Doctors are still careful around the nurses as they are just as important as Doctors. Nurses are the first line of defense; when a patient comes into the ER needing critical care, it will be the nurse that keeps them alive until a Physician can get to them; it'll be a nurse who monitors them and if their vitals begin to fall it'll be a nurse that does everything in his/her power to keep that patient alive. Very often the gossip will be coming from the older more experienced nurses as well. Working in a hospital can be a miserable place and it can feel like your entire life revolves around it; I see gossip as a necessary evil; if it helps them get through their day then God bless them. I rather a gossiping non burnt out nurse than someone who is completely miserable and is just there to get a paycheck.

 

[Patassa]

I'm sorry but in 1 year you took 4 classes, entry level physics and chemistry, and walked about with 3 C's and a B. It's very possible you do not have the aptitudes for science and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't see how retaking these courses will do much for you in the eyes of Adcoms. Who can't make an A when retaking the course? I mean you've already learned some of it, already seen all of it, and you're having a redo. How easy is that? Should be very easy, too easy to impress anyone or demonstrate your intelligence and drive. I may be way off here, but I don't see how telling the OP to keep clawing their way up this hill is very helpful. I think it's time to cut the losses and find some other equally rewarding job for you, or at least take a break and maybe go the nursing route later.

 

[beBrave]

I'm sorry but in 1 year you took 4 classes, entry level physics and chemistry, and walked about with 3 C's and a B. It's very possible you do not have the aptitudes for science and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't see how retaking these courses will do much for you in the eyes of Adcoms. Who can't make an A when retaking the course? I mean you've already learned some of it, already seen all of it, and you're having a redo. How easy is that? Should be very easy, too easy to impress anyone or demonstrate your intelligence and drive. I may be way off here, but I don't see how telling the OP to keep clawing their way up this hill is very helpful. I think it's time to cut the losses and find some other equally rewarding job for you, or at least take a break and maybe go the nursing route later.

That's unlikely the case. Telling OP to give up and consider nursing is ridiculous. I've said it already and I stand by my point, many of the same Pre-req's would be required if OP went the nursing route. A Physician (an attending for that matter) addressed OP's situation and provided feedback. I think OP is better off listening to someone experienced and not someone telling him/her to give up because he/she is not capable handing science.

 

[rguil15]

Wp

 

[TriagePreMed]

That's unlikely the case. Telling OP to give up and consider nursing is ridiculous. I've said it already and I stand by my point, many of the same Pre-req's would be required if OP went the nursing route. A Physician (an attending for that matter) addressed OP's situation and provided feedback. I think OP is better off listening to someone experienced and not someone telling him/her to give up because he/she is not capable handing science.

Nursing prerequisites are in no way comparable to Medical School prerequisites. You need basic level chemistry (below gen chem), human anatomy, physiology and microbiology for most nursing programs. This is not to say the courses for nursing are easier, but rather they require different skills than inorganic chemistry, organic chemistry and physics. I know many biology students that can breeze through the major but get crushed by the chemistry/physics.

 

[beBrave]

Nothing worth getting comes easy.

 

[GLaDOS]

Nursing prerequisites are in no way comparable to Medical School prerequisites. You need basic level chemistry (below gen chem), human anatomy, physiology and microbiology for most nursing programs. This is not to say the courses for nursing are easier, but rather they require different skills than inorganic chemistry, organic chemistry and physics. I know many biology students that can breeze through the major but get crushed by the chemistry/physics.

They definitely can be at least a bit similar. Prerequisites at my state school include a year of gen chem with lab, organic chem I plus either organic II or biochem along with anatomy/physiology I & II and microbiology.

At least for me, if I went into nursing, I'd highly prefer a program with the most rigorous prerequisites.

 

[TriagePreMed]

They definitely can be at least a bit similar. Prerequisites at my state school include a year of gen chem with lab, organic chem I plus either organic II or biochem along with anatomy/physiology I & II and microbiology.

At least for me, if I went into nursing, I'd highly prefer a program with the most rigorous prerequisites.

Why? Because that makes it a better program or prepares you as a nurse better? I don't think that's necessarily the case.

 

[shibby1111]

i did a post baccalaureate. took the MCAT twice, once in 2008, second time in 2011. got rejected 2011/2012 cycle, got accepted 2012/2013 cycle. volunteered clinical and non clinical. i will be 28 when i start med school, i am more fit to start now than i ever was. i know someone who will be starting when he is 30. point is, i will have grey hair when i start making the real definitive decisions, and people will respect them. i personally, dont want to hear medical advice from anyone who doesnt have grey hair.

 

[beBrave]

i did a post baccalaureate. took the MCAT twice, once in 2008, second time in 2011. got rejected 2011/2012 cycle, got accepted 2012/2013 cycle. volunteered clinical and non clinical. i will be 28 when i start med school, i am more fit to start now than i ever was. i know someone who will be starting when he is 30. point is, i will have grey hair when i start making the real definitive decisions, and people will respect them. i personally, dont want to hear medical advice from anyone who doesnt have grey hair.

Lol, you can have two Doctors walk into the room; one is the 30 year old attending observing the 40 year old resident. The patient will automatically assume that the younger Doctor is there to learn from the older Doctor hahahaha.

 

[sindadel]

Lol, you can have two Doctors walk into the room; one is the 30 year old attending observing the 40 year old resident. The patient will automatically assume that the younger Doctor is there to learn from the older Doctor hahahaha.

Not at all my experience. It is generally totally obvious who the staff is, and if it isn't, you are not doing a good job introducing yourself and your role.

 

[beBrave]

Not at all my experience. It is generally totally obvious who the staff is, and if it isn't, you are not doing a good job introducing yourself and your role.

I stand corrected.

 

[Patassa]

That's unlikely the case. Telling OP to give up and consider nursing is ridiculous. I've said it already and I stand by my point, many of the same Pre-req's would be required if OP went the nursing route. A Physician (an attending for that matter) addressed OP's situation and provided feedback. I think OP is better off listening to someone experienced and not someone telling him/her to give up because he/she is not capable handing science.

First off, I have no idea why you think your opinion is the only valid one here. This isn't about you, it's about the OP. You come off as someone pushing an agenda, it's very odd.

Second, You seem to be confusing "taking many of the same pre-reqs" and "performing the same on those pre-reqs". Applying to nursing school with C's or B's is not uncommon, in fact from what I've seen it's pretty par for the course. Applying to medical school with any hope of getting in as a post-bacc with C's and a B in basic introductory chem and physics is more than a long shot.

Yes, an attending Physician came and gave his opinion based on his probably rare and remarkable story of fortitude. And I actually agreed with him that the OP should probably take a break. However, I'm not sure if you missed this, but an Adcom member at a medical school also chimed in and gave his professional opinion...the OP blew the biggest and best chance they had to prove they had the mettle. By all accounts, the OP proved they did not, and I doubt Goro's take is very divergent from the majority of Adcom members.

I also think the OP is better off listening to those experienced in these matters, however this is a forum, we're entitled to our opinions, if you disagree that's fine but trying to prove someone's opinion wrong is the only "ridiculous" thing I've seen in this thread.

 

[Patassa]

They definitely can be at least a bit similar. Prerequisites at my state school include a year of gen chem with lab, organic chem I plus either organic II or biochem along with anatomy/physiology I & II and microbiology.

At least for me, if I went into nursing, I'd highly prefer a program with the most rigorous prerequisites.

This definitely varies from school to school, for instance at my state school nursing majors do take "Organic Chemistry" and "Physiology" and "Biochemistry". However those particular classes contain words in their description like "survey of", "introductory to", and "elementary". Not even close to the same level of rigor that the classes for pre-meds are taking.

 

[TriagePreMed]

First off, I have no idea why you think your opinion is the only valid one here. This isn't about you, it's about the OP. You come off as someone pushing an agenda, it's very odd.

Second, You seem to be confusing "taking many of the same pre-reqs" and "performing the same on those pre-reqs". Applying to nursing school with C's or B's is not uncommon, in fact from what I've seen it's pretty par for the course. Applying to medical school with any hope of getting in as a post-bacc with C's and a B in basic introductory chem and physics is more than a long shot.

Yes, an attending Physician came and gave his opinion based on his probably rare and remarkable story of fortitude. And I actually agreed with him that the OP should probably take a break. However, I'm not sure if you missed this, but an Adcom member at a medical school also chimed in and gave his professional opinion...the OP blew the biggest and best chance they had to prove they had the mettle. By all accounts, the OP proved they did not, and I doubt Goro's take is very divergent from the majority of Adcom members.

I also think the OP is better off listening to those experienced in these matters, however this is a forum, we're entitled to our opinions, if you disagree that's fine but trying to prove someone's opinion wrong is the only "ridiculous" thing I've seen in this thread.

CabinBuilder is one of my favorite users here, and while her story is very admirable, I wonder if things have changed since she applied to school in early 2000 and if Goro's take is more in-line with the current state of medicine and its increased competitiveness. At any level, I do completely agree with CB that the OP at minimum needs a long break.

 

[beBrave]

CabinBuilder is one of my favorite users here, and while her story is very admirable, I wonder if things have changed since she applied to school in early 2000 and if Goro's take is more in-line with the current state of medicine and its increased competitiveness. At any level, I do completely agree with CB that the OP at minimum needs a long break.

This is all I was really getting at. My opinion was solely that OP should rest and regroup before attempting to become actively engaged or dedicated to any other specific field. A burnt out person is a burnt out person. I agreed that OP should explore other fields if they have interest in other fields however their primary objective should be to take care of themselves first. Goro's advice may very well reflect the more recent changes in the increased level of competitiveness in the Medical field however I disagree that addressing the field before addressing their personal issues is the best course of action.

 

[cabinbuilder]

CabinBuilder is one of my favorite users here, and while her story is very admirable, I wonder if things have changed since she applied to school in early 2000 and if Goro's take is more in-line with the current state of medicine and its increased competitiveness. At any level, I do completely agree with CB that the OP at minimum needs a long break.

Thank you for this. I agree that my take on the application process is dated. However, I also agree that when you are burnt, you are burnt and need to do something else for a while and really reflect on yoru abilities and desire to go to medical school. I can relate because I was one of those burnt out people who kept taking classes over and over and never getting anywhere because there was too much other bad stuff happening in my life at the time plus I worked two jobs to survive. Once I took the break, and just worked for a while, going back was that much easier.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

There are a few people on SDN you should always listen to CB is one of them. Midlife, Q, Shyrem are others. Their advice is sound, OP if you can easily do nursing school, use it as a bridge to becoming a physician OR work towards an NP. Your path does not need to end here, but you, in the end need to decide what is right for you.

Best of luck to you

 

[asdhd6]

Thank you for the advice and the kind words. I am looking now more seriously into becoming an RN and then hopefully specializing. All in due time I guess, biology finishes in 3 weeks and then I will have a few months off to think about what I would truly want to do in the health career field. Thank you to all for the sound advice, it's been of tremendous help these past few days.

 

[asdhd6]

There are a few people on SDN you should always listen to CB is one of them. Midlife, Q, Shyrem are others. Their advice is sound, OP if you can easily do nursing school, use it as a bridge to becoming a physician OR work towards an NP. Your path does not need to end here, but you, in the end need to decide what is right for you.

Best of luck to you

Thank you for the kind words and advice! I am currently looking seriously into starting a graduate program in nursing once all of the pre-reqs are completed. The more I look and read about it though, the more I like the idea of becoming an RN and eventually specializing, it may just be the right fit for the life I wish to lead. Thank you to everyone who has given any tips/advice these past few days, it has been of tremendous help in helping me figure out what to do.