Fellowship Openings for 2009

[green mantis]

I know it's really late in the process, but I'd just like to see what's out there.

I've already checked sites such as Pathology Outlines & CareerMD. I know that unexpected openings are usually found by word of mouth rather than postings, & local residents / fellows tend to heard of these sooner than people further away.

I'd appreciate it if you could either post or PM me w/ the contact info. I've already done SP & BB/TM, so most of the other areas would be fine. However, forensics & cytology would also be low on my list.

Thanks for your help!


----- Antony

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[KeratinPearls]

I know it's really late in the process, but I'd just like to see what's out there.

I've already checked sites such as Pathology Outlines & CareerMD. I know that unexpected openings are usually found by word of mouth rather than postings, & local residents / fellows tend to heard of these sooner than people further away.

I'd appreciate it if you could either post or PM me w/ the contact info. I'm primarily interested in areas that I haven't already done (SP, BB/TM). Forensics & cytology would also be low on my list.

Thanks for your help!


----- Antony

So this is your third fellowship? Is it because you can't find a job?

 

[green mantis]

So this is your third fellowship? Is it because you can't find a job?

It will be my 3rd fellowship. The job market in the LA & SF areas sucks. The positions that are available aren't particularly desirable (no partnership, low salary, lots of grossing, minimal vacation time, etc). I'd rather do a fellowship that will help me get a better job next year than suffer through a job that I don't really want.


----- Antony

 

[green mantis]

It looks like my initial post caused some confusion, so I've modified it. I've already done SP & BB/TM. I'd like to know if there are fellowship openings in other areas.


----- Antony

 

[LADoc00]

I would definitely NOT do a third fellowship. If the job market in LA/SF completely blows now, how is it going to magically self correct after fellowship no3?

And you are already talking having to maintain (I assume...) 3 different MOCs for Ap, Cp and Tm. That is a beaucratic nightmare in my opinion.

 

[Patho2009]

Doing a third fellowship is much better than sitting home or to have a gap of one year or more on your CV. It is not unusual to do more than two fellowships. It is also not unusual to have more than two board certification ..i.e. AP/CP + a subpecialty (cyto, hem, BB,..etc). Actually, it is the trend now to have a subspecialty certification besides your primary AP/CP one. I know it is hard for the MOCs for all these boards for some people but it'a ok for others.

 

[Pathpathpath]

Wouldn't you be better off getting a job elsewhere (outside LA or SF) for a year or two, then try to get a position where you want? I would think signing out cases for a while, i.e. genuine experience, would be much more attractive than a third fellowship year to prospective employers. I am just guessing this is the case, not ever having actually hired a pathologist myself. Living in a flyover state is not the end of the world, esp. if it is temporary. Also, you might make more money practicing pathology than you would as a PGY-7.

 

[dl2dp2]

It will be my 3rd fellowship. The job market in the LA & SF areas sucks. The positions that are available aren't particularly desirable (no partnership, low salary, lots of grossing, minimal vacation time, etc). I'd rather do a fellowship that will help me get a better job next year than suffer through a job that I don't really want.


----- Antony

Could you give some ballpark figures of the kind of offers you are getting?

how "low" is the salary?
how "minimal" is the vacation time?

Also, could you give your expectation level?

What do you expect to make? How much gross do you expect to do?

I have a feeling that in large urban markets partnership tracks are very rare for a LOT of specialties. Another route is to do academia for a few years, then transition into private. But the numbers I'm hearing from my PD is that even in northeastern high-end academic centers, they are starting people on 160-170k now, and these jobs are supposedly plenty. I'm wondering perhaps there's a mismatch between your expectation and what's possible.

 

[SLUsagar]

Doing a third fellowship is much better than sitting home or to have a gap of one year or more on your CV. It is not unusual to do more than two fellowships. It is also not unusual to have more than two board certification ..i.e. AP/CP + a subpecialty (cyto, hem, BB,..etc). Actually, it is the trend now to have a subspecialty certification besides your primary AP/CP one. I know it is hard for the MOCs for all these boards for some people but it'a ok for others.

I would disagree, and rather suggest what others have. Instead of doing YET another fellowship, it's better off to go work somewhere (either a so-so real job in a less than desirable area and then bolt or step-ladder up or to another local job, or move away and work in a more than desirable area, and again bolt, step-ladder up, or move back to your specific location after having had a full year(s) of experience and continued connections and maintenance of relationship -- assuming you don't end up loving this move-away job you went for...which could seriously happen). Suggesting additional fellowships is nonsense and frankly unneccessarily scares current/future path residents, in my opinion. Yeah, if you just take from a monetary point of view as well (as suggested by LaDoc), you're hurting yourself by not going out and getting a real job. Plus, enough is enough already -- sure it's scary at first, but you gotta get out there and start signing out! Lose the training wheels! You DON'T need more than 1 fellowship to get a job and be confident and successful!

 

[Cloaca]

From what I've heard around my department and from others, one fellowship is plenty, two isn't unusual but may be overkill, three shows that you have a lack of focus and are postponing the inevitable. In other words, it seems like doing a third fellowship may actually weaken your position by giving people the impression that you aren't ready to take on the responsibilities of the real world.

Not that you asked for our advice but I agree with the others that a year or two signing out, even if it's not the "perfect" job, puts you in a better position to get the perfect job afterward. In comparison, the added value of a third fellowship is probably minimal.

But in case you still want to go for it, I think there's a GI fellowship open in pittsburgh.

 

[Patho2009]

I agree with all of the above. He should not restrict his job hunt to SF area..YOU SHOULD BE GEORAPHICALLY restrcited...Catch ANY job and then you can move from there..better than sitting home or doing a third fellowship. Keep the fellowship as the last resort.


However, I have a question. Many people in my department said that it is highly recommended to do two fellowships: one Surg path as two years of AP is not enough and a second fellowship as subspecialty. What do you think about this?

 

[deschutes]

To the OP: I back the suggestion to find a job. A third fellowship is not going to help your situation much (MAYBE derm, but certainly no guarantees). If you restrict yourself to only the popular (or rather, VERY popular) places to live, you aren't likely to find a job that comes close to matching your salary/vacation expectations. [EDIT] Keeping the fellowship option as backup is a good idea.

Many people in my department said that it is highly recommended to do two fellowships: one Surg path as two years of AP is not enough and a second fellowship as subspecialty. What do you think about this?

I believe this really depends on where you trained, how comfortable you are with surg path and what your eventual goals are. If you're planning on climbing the salary/location ladder, where you do the fellowship/s i.e. pedigree and what subspecialty you do, will factor into what sort of job you eventually land. If many people in your department are telling you this, then it probably reflects the experience of graduates from your program. Best to listen in that case.

My take (having been through the fellowship application cycle twice) is that most people who do surg path do it for themselves, and top it off with a subspecialty of some sort to be "marketable" for the good academic or private practice jobs. If you come from a strong AP program, you might go straight to doing a subspecialty or two - in-house or otherwise. If your dream job is to be the 7th in an expanding group in a city of 20k in the Midwest, then if you put enough effort into BOTH AP and CP during residency, a fellowship is not going to add much.

 

[LADoc00]

agree with all the above posts that basically state go and get real world experience somewhere else and $$$ rather than do endless numbers of fellowships. After 1-2, it just looks really bad and comical IMO.

 

[Pathwrath]

Three fellowships?

Pathology is surreal. That this discussion is taking place matter-of-factly is surreal.

I wish you the best.

 

[2121115]

Three fellowships?

Pathology is surreal. That this discussion is taking place matter-of-factly is surreal.

I wish you the best.

To be fair, this guy admits that he does have job offers- there are jobs there but he just doesn't want one of them. But yeah, 3 fellowships is just beyond what I would envision for myself. I hope I'm not in that situation.