Finding a Job... Ack!

[Scrubbs]

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So, as much as I love my program, they don't do much in the way of telling us what we need to do in order to find a job. And when to do it. Since I've officially been a 3rd year for a whole 3 days, I feel like I should start thinking about such things. I know I've got to get my CV together again, and that a lot of our graduates last year just found places they liked and applied (job opening or not). Is this how things are typically done? Is there a website somewhere with job offers? I know some places list in the journals, but are there other sources? Also, WHEN do we apply? I've heard everything from now to Feb/March.

What's everyone else out there hearing? Sess, DocB, Spyder, Peksi... any advice?

 

[USCDiver]

check out www.edphysician.com for a good listing of available jobs. Some of the ads link to headhunters, but this should give you a good starting point.

Tip: scroll down to the bottom of the page past the 'featured ads' to search by state.

 

[Scrubbs]

Bump. Anyone else?

 

[spyderdoc]

So, as much as I love my program, they don't do much in the way of telling us what we need to do in order to find a job. And when to do it. Since I've officially been a 3rd year for a whole 3 days, I feel like I should start thinking about such things. I know I've got to get my CV together again, and that a lot of our graduates last year just found places they liked and applied (job opening or not). Is this how things are typically done? Is there a website somewhere with job offers? I know some places list in the journals, but are there other sources? Also, WHEN do we apply? I've heard everything from now to Feb/March.

What's everyone else out there hearing? Sess, DocB, Spyder, Peksi... any advice?

I say choose an area that you want to live in.....Look at the local hospitals and call the EM director to ask if any jobs are available. A lot of available jobs are not posted, and are just filled by word of mouth. Even if a place is not hiring staff, and you really want to be there, ask if you can do per diem work for them until a staff position opens up. Here in our ED, we hire pretty much exclusively from our per diem pool.
If you are going into academics, then go to the SAEM and/or ACEP meetings to meet up with some of the PD's. I think the ACEP job fair also has a lot of community folks recruiting as well....

For community jobs, start around Jan-Feb. I accepted my job out of residency in early Feb.....I think for an academic job, you need to start looking earlier....

Good luck!

 

[docB]

Remember how there was this kind of sleazy edge to the match? You had to worry that PDs were blowing sunshine and that you'd get hung out to dry? Job hunting is like that but without the rules, ethics and reputations. In other words it can be worse. I agree with Spyder that the thing to do is to pick an area and make some phone calls. The worst they can do is say no or not call back. No one in the job hunting world will blacklist you (unless you already worked for them and caused a problem) so in that regard it's better than the match.

 

[rahulazcom]

NOTE: Sorry I realized this is so long! YEESH

My wife is an allergy/immunology fellow and is moving to Phoenix at the end of next year. Her program like most programs didn't offer much direction in regards to job placement particularly outside of the city where she completed her fellowship. There were no A/I positions listed on the internet for Phoenix. Even at her academy meeting, there were no groups from Phoenix hiring. She was really worried she wouldn't find a job in Phoenix. Luckily, I used to be a former headhunter so I knew the process pretty well.

You want to avoid headhunters if you can. Most of the jobs headhunters are contracted for are "tough sells" or programs that need to hire headhunters because they are having a tough time finding applicants on their own. And most of these jobs tend to be "tough sells" for a reason.

What my wife and I did was simple; we acted as our own headhunters. We did all of our own research and found A/I groups in the Phoenix metropolitan area. The best way to do this is to find a state physician complaint board or some group that keeps a tab on any or no trangressions a physician has committed. We found one of these boards on the internet for Arizona. It listed the phone number, specialization and work address of every physician practicing in the state. We tallied about 30 addresses in the Phoenix metro for A/I. Next, we created a CV package which included her CV,photo, LOR's and one page abstracts of published research. Each CV package was enclosed each in a nice clear binder to make it easier for the employer to read. So we ended up with 30 of these CV packets by the end of it all. We made certain to inform them in the cover letter that we were representing ourselves and were not affiliated with any headhunter or outsourcing group We mentioned this because headhunters and outsourcing groups will blindly e-mail or forward candidates so we wanted to let them know upfront that we were not headhunters. Next, we called and followed up with some places on a Friday afternoon when the offices were least likely to be busy. Never call on a Monday or early in the week. Call later in the week and during the afternoons when things are slower. This is what headhunters and drug reps do.

Also, provide some compelling reason as to why you are interested in moving to a city or a particular location. If your family lives in NYC and you are planning on living or moving to the area anway, let them know this. It will help sell you more as opposed to some person who is randomly applying all over the country. I agree with the others, try to narrow it down to one location or two locations at the most. My wife mentioned in her cover letter that I, her husband, was attending school in Phoenix and would remain there for the coming years so groups knew she was serious about the Phoenix area.

She received about 4 calls back. One of those calls led to an offer this year and she is going to join that group. That may not seem like a lot of calls but it is considering she she still had over 12 months of fellowship left and she couldn't start until 2006.

You have to understand that many groups are seeking physicians but are not in such a dire need as to hiring a headhunter and paying them 40-100K commission to find one. But if an excellent candidate happens to fall in their lap, and the group is aware the candidate is not represented by any headhunter or outsourcing firm, (ie they don't have to pay a large commission fee), the candidate's chances of getting hired improve quite a bit. This is what happened with my wife. Her group was not actively looking but they were interested in hiring someone. Her group never posted any wanted ads on the internet or hired a headhunter or anything like that.

I understand A/I is vastly different from Emergency Medicine and thus the protocol might be different. I wanted to share our story in case it could be of help to anyone here.

Good Luck to all of you

 

[DrQuinn]

Great thread, strong work Scrubbs!

As an aside, does anyone know anyone who is an EP in the DC area (suburbs of MD or VA)? I'm actually flying up there in about 3-4 weeks to do some job huntin... wouldn't hurt to drop some names... 🙂

Somewhere I have a handout from Barbara Katz that is a great resource. One of our residents got it from teh acep convention in san fran a few years ago, if i can find it, maybe i can scan it or something.

Q

 

[margaritaboy]

NOTE: ...to share our story in case it could be of help to anyone here.

Good Luck to all of you

Dude, thanks for the information. I'm certainly not in the job market yet, but that really did help me understand the whole headhunter and job-searching thing a bit better. 🙂

 

[Scrubbs]

Thanks for all the info everyone! Rahulazcom... great post! Really helpful!

As a followup... how does the licensing process work? If you are looking for a community position in Jan-Feb, is this enough time to get it done for July? People from our class this year had a lot of problems with getting their stuff back in time. For me, I'll be looking in Philly and South Jersey... should I just apply for both licenses since I don't know where I'll get a job? Or wait and do it after accepting one?

 

[docB]

Thanks for all the info everyone! Rahulazcom... great post! Really helpful!

As a followup... how does the licensing process work? If you are looking for a community position in Jan-Feb, is this enough time to get it done for July? People from our class this year had a lot of problems with getting their stuff back in time. For me, I'll be looking in Philly and South Jersey... should I just apply for both licenses since I don't know where I'll get a job? Or wait and do it after accepting one?

That's a tough question. There are some benefits to having more than one license like being able to moonlight in the other state. But is it worth applying and paying every year to keep it up? Depends on what you are doing. My advice is that you shouldn't get a license for a state because you might work there. Wait until you actually know where you're going to write the check. You should get the application packets for each state and see what kind of stuff they want. Collect all the data, transcripts and so forth and be ready to submit which ever one you actually wind up needing. If you already have a license in a particular state it's probably worth it to maintain it rather than have to go back through the application process but if you never see a patient in a state it's a waste to get licensed there.

 

[rahulazcom]

If have to use a headhunter, be aware that most headhunters work on contingency meaning they don't get paid until the group hires you. Very rarely are headhunters paid full in advance. Due to this contingent form of payment, headhunters are often desperate just to make a placement as opposed to making certain the job fits the candidate's wishes. So often times, the headhunter doesn't care if the job is a perfect match for you or whether you are happy there. Once you are placed, the headhunter is done. Yes, headhunters will often guarantee the company who employed their services some type of guarantee but usually that guarantee only lasts up to 3 months. Most people will not leave their job after only 3 months so most headhunters are not worried about paying that guarantee if the candidate leaves because they know chances are the candidate won't bail until well after 3 months even if the job is truly lousy.

If you use a headhunter, here are some tips to make certain you are working with a quality one.

1. Make certain the headhunter knows the job specs well. Bad headhunters usually only know a certain checklist of information without knowing much more.

2. Make certain the headhunter actually has a current open position or positions he or she is recruiting for. Many times, headhunters will call you just to stick you in their database when they have no current openings.

3. Ask the headhunter what the hiring process is. Bad companies or groups will have some ridiculous 10 step hiring process that is bureacratic and eventually never leads to a hire.

4. Make the headhunter work for you. Many times, headhunters just put you in contact with the group and then disappear. Uh huh... They are making a lot of money placing you. Make them earn it.