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Hi everyone.

This is for those who are interested in applying or the new FlexMed Program, for it's 2nd year. It's a program by Icahn School of Medicine and offers early acceptance to Medical School despite what major are you as far as you are a sophomore who have met certain requirements. (Google FlexMed if you want more infor)
Who is going to apply?

I know there was a thread for last year, many people from that thread got in- so you were in that thread, feel free to join this one too (and, may be you can help/mentor the prospective applicants like me?)
 
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It's not that early, approximately 6 more months since the deadline of the application- as far as I know
 

moop

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You should know pre-meds, I wouldn't be surprised if there were people that started studying for the MCATs in high school.
I used an MCAT book to review for AP Physics back in the day. It was actually really helpful lol.
 
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Do you guys think the essays will be the same/similar to the essays for the flexmed 2014 cycle?
 

moop

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Do you guys think the essays will be the same/similar to the essays for the flexmed 2014 cycle?
The questions were the same exact thing from 2013 HuMed (what I applied to) and 2014 FlexMed, so I hazard that it will be the same thing, yes.
 
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Definitely thinking about applying, although I don't know if it's even worth a shot. I am a biology major which I think probably disadvantages me. I also only got a 3.74 last (freshman) year. I go to a HYPSM so I might apply and just pray that the prestige factor helps me a bit. I landed a pretty prestigious research fellowship for this summer, so I might try to play that up and talk about how I want to pursue research with all the extra MCAT/coursework time. But I wouldn't be expecting much. Seems like a cool program though.
 
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In all likelihood, the acceptees to this program are selling themselves short. Based off Sinai's criteria to enter, they're looking for highly successful students in terms of SATs, high school GPA, current college GPA (which would be indicative of future GPA), stellar LORs, and excellent reasoning and storytelling skills in the PS. Such individuals would very likely qualify for at least one of the higher ranked medical schools or partial/full tuition to a 'lower tier' school if they simply waited. In this way, Mount Sinai is stealing the competitive applicants from the other schools, which is very smart. It's almost abusing the sophomores insecurity to this highly competitive process by granting a sense of premature security and self-worth.
 
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moop

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In all likelihood, the acceptees to this program are selling themselves short. Based off Sinai's criteria to enter, they're looking for highly successful students in terms of SATs, high school GPA, current college GPA (which would be indicative of future GPA), stellar LORs, and excellent reasoning and storytelling skills in the PS. Such individuals would very likely qualify for at least one of the higher ranked medical schools or partial/full tuition to a 'lower tier' school if they simply waited. In this way, Mount Sinai is stealing the competitive applicants from the other schools, which is very smart. It's almost abusing the sophomores insecurity to this highly competitive process by granting a sense of premature security and self-worth.
Of course. That, and they treat the "don't be a closeted premed" attitude very seriously. It's one bird ****ting on two stones. One idealistic, one opportunistic. Beauty.
 

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In all likelihood, the acceptees to this program are selling themselves short. Based off Sinai's criteria to enter, they're looking for highly successful students in terms of SATs, high school GPA, current college GPA (which would be indicative of future GPA), stellar LORs, and excellent reasoning and storytelling skills in the PS. Such individuals would very likely qualify for at least one of the higher ranked medical schools or partial/full tuition to a 'lower tier' school if they simply waited. In this way, Mount Sinai is stealing the competitive applicants from the other schools, which is very smart. It's almost abusing the sophomores insecurity to this highly competitive process by granting a sense of premature security and self-worth.

I saw the stats of some of the students who got it this year. Most were 3.85/3.9+, 2250+. Several had first author publications and crazy ECs/leadership.
 
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FlexMed 2014 Statistics:

Complete Apps: 736
Interviews: 154
Acceptances: 51
Avg. SAT: 2227
Avg. GPA: 3.79
 
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Purplownz

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FlexMed 2014 Statistics:

Complete Apps: 736
Interviews: 154
Acceptances: 51
Avg. SAT: 2227
Avg. GPA: 3.79

Yep. I was actually surprised. They clearly looked at the whole package and not just stats because I know that they turned down plenty of people with 3.9 and 2300 from my undergrad. If they wanted to make a 3.9+ class, they easily could have.
 

moop

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Yep. I was actually surprised. They clearly looked at the whole package and not just stats because I know that they turned down plenty of people with 3.9 and 2300 from my undergrad. If they wanted to make a 3.9+ class, they easily could have.


lol sorry, I couldn't resist. But yeah, good post to sticky on this thread for the huge orgy of applicants who'll soon be asking about alllllllll the objective stats stuff

Actually, good reminder for all of SDN, period.
 

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lol sorry, I couldn't resist. But yeah, good post to sticky on this thread for the huge orgy of applicants who'll soon be asking about alllllllll the objective stats stuff

Actually, good reminder for all of SDN, period.

Are you thinking about doing FlexMed Moop? I thought you were a junior?
 

Purplownz

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lol sorry, I couldn't resist. But yeah, good post to sticky on this thread for the huge orgy of applicants who'll soon be asking about alllllllll the objective stats stuff

Actually, good reminder for all of SDN, period.

lol yeah. They sent out a letter detailing the stats + how many students got in from each school. I think Yale had the most with (9?)
 
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lol yeah. They sent out a letter detailing the stats + how many students got in from each school. I think Yale had the most with (9?)

Yale? I don't understand why people from hyper-competitive undergrads would apply to FlexMed. They have the potential to do really well at those undergrads and build impressive enough resumes that they could potentially be admitted to whatever school they wanted or receive financial incentives from schools like Icahn or somewhere else. With FlexMed you lose that leverage immediately.
 
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Purplownz

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Yale? I don't understand why people from hyper-competitive undergrads would apply to FlexMed. They have the potential to do really well at those undergrads and build impressive enough resumes that they could potentially be admitted to whatever school they wanted or receive financial incentives from schools like Icahn or somewhere else. With FlexMed you lose that leverage immediately.

Yeah and the next were Columbia (7) yay for my school, Penn (6), Brown (4), and Hopkins (3). In regards to the opportunity cost, I posted this is another thread. Clearly, the program is not for everyone and you need to decide exactly what you want out of a school.

"That's definitely something that I (and I'm sure every other FlexMed matriculant) considered when applying. Sure, it is likely that many of us could have done well on the MCAT and gotten into a variety of schools later on. But to me, a guaranteed offer to a school that I like (and liked even more after the interview), in a city that I want to live in, and from which you can match anywhere you want if you do well was worth it. Sinai's need-based financial aid is also extremely good and they're going to give out merit aid to the best FlexMed students. On top of that, I now have the freedom to do anything I want. I can go abroad, maybe work for a consulting firm for a year, and get into any ECs that I haven't been able to yet. Yeah, maybe I could have studied for the MCAT and gunned for Hopkins or Yale but (to me at least) that wasn't worth it and would just be stoking ego. If you're willing to forego the normal app cycle and gunning for a top 5 (and not everyone is) and want to attend a top 20 in NYC that has a very good quality of life and matches extremely well then I say go for it. To each his own though."
 
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moop

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Are you thinking about doing FlexMed Moop? I thought you were a junior?
lol I'm a senior. I applied for the interview experience two years ago and got what I wanted out of it. No intention of going to Sinai any time soon.

Yeah and the next were Columbia (7) yay for my school, Penn (6), Brown (4), and Hopkins (3). In regards to the opportunity cost, I posted this is another thread. Clearly, the program is not for everyone and you need to decide exactly what you want out of a school.

"That's definitely something that I (and I'm sure every other FlexMed matriculant) considered when applying. Sure, it is likely that many of us could have done well on the MCAT and gotten into a variety of schools later on. But to me, a guaranteed offer to a school that I like (and liked even more after the interview), in a city that I want to live in, and from which you can match anywhere you want if you do well was worth it. Sinai's need-based financial aid is also extremely good and they're going to give out merit aid to the best FlexMed students. On top of that, I now have the freedom to do anything I want. I can go abroad, maybe work for a consulting firm for a year, and get into any ECs that I haven't been able to yet. Yeah, maybe I could have studied for the MCAT and gunned for Hopkins or Yale but (to me at least) that wasn't worth it and would just be stoking ego. If you're willing to forego the normal app cycle and gunning for a top 5 (and not everyone is) and want to attend a top 20 in NYC that has a very good quality of life and matches extremely well then I say go for it. To each his own though."
Thing is, though, premeds from the top schools do that already and still end up at the same places. They're a penny a gross at top undergrads. If you're at a top school, you have the resources and opportunity to do those things along with balancing premed, so I still don't quite see the argument from that perspective. I've studied abroad, I've worked at a consulting firm for a year (took a gap year in college), and I'm almost always the only premed in most of my ECs; I don't know if I'll end up at a top 20, but doing the traditional path hasn't taken away much of the above for me.

It's all about the security and certainty (which to me, personally, is a bit sad). Sinai is just preying on the propensity for high achievers to be extraordinarily risk averse and then capitalizes on that uncertainty and nervousness about the process to get really competitive students into its program. (I do not consider this "preying" to be a bad thing. It's smart for the school.) At the same time, they can raise their PR profile and continue to market themselves as the super liberal, innovative med school; they advertise the "you can take a test anywhere" system pretty aggressively as an example of how cool and hip they are. (Meanwhile, Yale hides in the shadow realm with its lack of tests and assessments altogether and sniggers...)
 
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Aerus

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Yeah and the next were Columbia (7) yay for my school, Penn (6), Brown (4), and Hopkins (3). In regards to the opportunity cost, I posted this is another thread. Clearly, the program is not for everyone and you need to decide exactly what you want out of a school.

"That's definitely something that I (and I'm sure every other FlexMed matriculant) considered when applying. Sure, it is likely that many of us could have done well on the MCAT and gotten into a variety of schools later on. But to me, a guaranteed offer to a school that I like (and liked even more after the interview), in a city that I want to live in, and from which you can match anywhere you want if you do well was worth it. Sinai's need-based financial aid is also extremely good and they're going to give out merit aid to the best FlexMed students. On top of that, I now have the freedom to do anything I want. I can go abroad, maybe work for a consulting firm for a year, and get into any ECs that I haven't been able to yet. Yeah, maybe I could have studied for the MCAT and gunned for Hopkins or Yale but (to me at least) that wasn't worth it and would just be stoking ego. If you're willing to forego the normal app cycle and gunning for a top 5 (and not everyone is) and want to attend a top 20 in NYC that has a very good quality of life and matches extremely well then I say go for it. To each his own though."

I think you could have done all that without FlexMed. The only thing with Flexmed that I see is trading stress for less options. If Icahn is your dream school though, then there is no trade off.
 
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Purplownz

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lol I'm a senior. I applied for the interview experience two years ago and got what I wanted out of it. No intention of going to Sinai any time soon.


Thing is, though, premeds from the top schools do that already and still end up at the same places. If you're at a top school, you have the resources and opportunity to do those things along with balancing premed, so I still don't quite see the argument from that perspective. It's all about the security and certainty (which to me, personally, is a bit sad).

Sinai is just preying on the propensity for high achievers to be extraordinarily risk averse and then capitalizes on that uncertainty and nervousness about the process to get really competitive students into its program. (I do not consider this "preying" to be a bad thing. It's smart for the school.) At the same time, they can raise their PR profile and continue to market themselves as the super liberal, innovative med school; they advertise the "you can take a test anywhere" system pretty aggressively as an example of how cool and hip they are. (Meanwhile, Yale hides in the shadow realm with its lack of tests and assessments altogether and sniggers...)

You can do those things as a traditional pre med but it's definitely much, much harder. I think security (like you said) is a large part of being able to do that more fully. For instance, if I were not in the program, I wouldn't be in Florence right now taking some light research classes and having the time of my life. I'd probably be back in New York taking biochem, gunning to get that 4.0, and probably piling on more "traditional" pre med ECs. Over the summer I would probably be doing some undergraduate research program while feverishly filling out secondaries instead of interning at McKinsey in Tokyo (just got that lined up). A lot of it also comes down to the school itself. Personally, I really loved Sinai and knew that I would be very happy going there even if I had applied through the traditional route. If you don't like the school itself, then I definitely wouldn't suggest this program. Other programs that have early admission for their own undergrads include Northwestern, Vanderbilt, GWU, and all of the BS/MD programs like Brown/Baylor/NW again and Wash U. Are they "poaching" strong students? Maybe. But right now, I really don't mind being one of them.

edit: My neighbor goes to Yale Med and she says that they really emphasize their liberal curriculum to prospective students at interviews as it's a huge part of the school and a big selling point.
 
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Purplownz

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I hate to get into the nitty griddy cost-benefit analysis (because I think the program is much more than that) but I also think it's important to emphasize how big of an extrapolation "you got into FlexMed therefore you're a shoo in to top 10 schools" really is. The way some people are approaching this analysis is with the assumption that you're guaranteed to get into top tiers and receive tons of scholarship money from lower ranked schools. What you're trading a guaranteed acceptance for is A CHANCE to get into what you perceive to be an "elite" program. You are absolutely by no means guaranteed to be admitted to these places 2 years down the line, even with a 3.9/39.

Personal anecdote: My big applied last year. Columbia College, 3.88 cumulative, 39 MCAT (14, 12, 13), all of the standard ECs. Applied to each and every one of the top 20s - non-Stanford Cali schools. Best schools he got into: Northwestern, NYU, Einstein, Case, and Brown. Personally, I would go to Sinai over all of those places. I know this is n=1 but it demonstrates that the thinking of "I'm so special and have high stats therefore I'm going to walk into Hopkins in 2 years" may leave you disappointed.

So if you're really determined to analyze this objectively what you have is:

A guaranteed acceptance to a top 20 that you (hopefully) like and in an amazing city. You're going to be a doctor. If you put up strong step scores and 3rd year grades, you can match top programs in any specialty. Quality of life is really high, "true P/F", and yeah the testing is computerized (which I personally like).

VS

Busting your butt doing Sn2ed for 3-4 months, praying that you'll get lucky and post up your high 30's practice scores on test day (in the case of this year's students, taking the new MCAT). Working hard to maintain a really high GPA for the rest of college. Continuously stressing over research, shadowing, volunteering and other med-school related stuff. Filling out a million secondaries and flying all over the country interviewing for the minute chance that you'll get into your end all and be all top 5 school (and even smaller chance that you'll get scholarship money). And, as unfortunately in the case of my bro, come up empty handed.

That's the decision you're really facing here, not a guaranteed future top 5 acceptance or full rides.
 
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Lucca

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You can do those things as a traditional pre med but it's definitely much, much harder. I think security (like you said) is a large part of being able to do that more fully. For instance, if I were not in the program, I wouldn't be in Florence right now taking some light research classes and having the time of my life. I'd probably be back in New York taking biochem, gunning to get that 4.0, and probably piling on more "traditional" pre med ECs. Over the summer I would probably be doing some undergraduate research program while feverishly filling out secondaries instead of interning at McKinsey in Tokyo (just got that lined up). A lot of it also comes down to the school itself. Personally, I really loved Sinai and knew that I would be very happy going there even if I had applied through the traditional route. If you don't like the school itself, then I definitely wouldn't suggest this program. Other programs that have early admission for their own undergrads include Northwestern, Vanderbilt, GWU, and all of the BS/MD programs like Brown/Baylor/NW again and Wash U. Are they "poaching" strong students? Maybe. But right now, I really don't mind being one of them.

EDIT: My neighbor goes to Yale Med and she says that they really emphasize their liberal curriculum to prospective students at interviews as it's a huge part of the school and a big selling point.

There is something to be said about removing the 'stress' from building a traditional portfolio even though, as moop argued, there is no reason one cannot do whatever they want, check the boxes, and still do really well. Students at top-schools already have the whole world at their feet, I'm not sure why they would need to monopolize programs like these as well, especially with their school name carrying them through any opportunity outside of medicine (and, to an extent, within medicine).
 

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I hate to get into the nitty griddy cost-benefit analysis (because I think the program is much more than that) but I also think it's important to emphasize how big of an extrapolation "you got into FlexMed therefore you're a shoo in to top 10 schools" really is. The way some people are approaching this analysis is with the assumption that you're guaranteed to get into top tiers and receive tons of scholarship money from lower ranked schools. What you're trading a guaranteed acceptance for is A CHANCE to get into what you perceive to be an "elite" program. You are absolutely by no means guaranteed to be admitted to these places 2 years down the line, even with a 3.9/39.

Personal anecdote: My big applied last year. Columbia College, 3.88 cumulative, 39 MCAT (14, 12, 13), all of the standard ECs. Applied to each and every one of the top 20s - non-Stanford Cali schools. Best schools he got into: Northwestern, NYU, Einstein, Case, and Brown. Personally, I would go to Sinai over all of those places. I know this is n=1 but it demonstrates that the thinking of "I'm so special and have high stats therefore I'm going to walk into Hopkins in 2 years" may leave you disappointed.

So if you're really determined to analyze this objectively what you have is:

A guaranteed acceptance to a top 20 that you (hopefully) like and in an amazing city. You're going to be a doctor. If you put up strong step scores and 3rd year grades, you can match top programs in any specialty. Quality of life is really high, "true P/F", and yeah the testing is computerized (which I personally like).

VS

Busting your butt doing Sn2ed for 3-4 months, praying that you'll get lucky and post up your high 30's practice scores on test day (in the case of this year's students, taking the new MCAT). Working hard to maintain a really high GPA for the rest of college. Continuously stressing over research, shadowing, volunteering and other med-school related stuff. Filling out a million secondaries and flying all over the country interviewing for the minute chance that you'll get into your end all and be all top 5 school (and even smaller chance that you'll get scholarship money). And, as unfortunately in the case of my bro, come up empty handed.

That's the decision you're really facing here, not a guaranteed future top 5 acceptance or full rides.

I'm not discounting the validity of "one in hand is worth two in the bush" here because it definitely applies, but people at top (undergrad) programs already have top opportunities. There's no need for 'a guarantee'. In the case of your bro, they weren't shortchanged or anything. They got into many TOP NOTCH MD programs, meaning they were highly competitive. n=1 is REALLY bad here because were talking about the higher echelons where the difference between someone receiving 40k w/ acceptance and another receiving a rejection can be 1 EC, 1 Rec Letter, or just dumb luck.
 

Aerus

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Personal anecdote: My big applied last year. Columbia College, 3.88 cumulative, 39 MCAT (14, 12, 13), all of the standard ECs. Applied to each and every one of the top 20s - non-Stanford Cali schools. Best schools he got into: Northwestern, NYU, Einstein, Case, and Brown. Personally, I would go to Sinai over all of those places. I know this is n=1 but it demonstrates that the thinking of "I'm so special and have high stats therefore I'm going to walk into Hopkins in 2 years" may leave you disappointed.

That's scary...no love/IIs at all from the top 10? Was he just cookie cutter in terms of EC's?
 

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It's definitely poaching for the brightest, motivated students while offering them security and freedom from neuroticism to do whatever they want. Win-win and all around with pretty positive social externalities (sorry, I'm an econ guy), but still predatory.

Your counterargument is off. It's not about "I have high stats, going to get into top 10." We're not arguing that FlexMed kids just have high stats and will thus have done very well in the regular app process. We know it's not just about stats. FlexMed itself is, by definition, not just about stats. The regular application process is not just about stats. Your brother probably wouldn't have stood a chance at FlexMed with his "standard ECs." There's nothing standard about FlexMed. He's not a relevant case study for our research question. We are debating the prospects FlexMed-caliber (sorry to phrase it like that) students in the regular process.

Each and every one of the 51 people admitted to this new class already demonstrated a high level of interest for something outside of medicine. That sort of thing isn't just going to disappear under the rug during the regular process. We have every reason to believe that the applicants in question would have continued to exercise their interest in their particular field, though perhaps not to the extent that FlexMed kids will, and no reason to believe that those experiences won't be noticed when they apply traditionally. In fact, if we really want to go extreme with the counterfactuals, we could say that if the applicant had the insight of how top admissions committees seem to be viewing applicants, that the more time they spent on non-traditional premed stuff (i.e., not worrying about shadowing, volunteering, research, and all that bullsh*t QUITE as much), they'd be in a much better position to take on the top schools when they file regular apps. From what SDN says more and more throughout the years, I don't think this counterfactual is far-fetched at all.

Once you take into account the fact that we're talking about "full package" considerations here, the overall argument that those who were admitted to FlexMed would have also done extremely well at research-heavy universities (screw USNWR) two years after the FlexMed process still stands. You can't just say "no one is guaranteed into Hopkins" (yeah, no ****) and disregard the other aspects of what we are arguing. (Plus, Sinai isn't even top 10 status, so I don't quite get the emphasis on bringing in super top schools.)

You claim security, we argue for choice. Choice not necessarily (as you say) between Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, WashU, but choice nevertheless between very good programs (like Sinai). In fact, I'd wager that if we were to really measure the risk averseness of premeds (through complicated experimental techniques I won't get into), many would prefer the element of choice rather than a rigid lock-in halfway through their college years, which is exactly what the academic literature on the subject would predict.
 
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Purplownz

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It's definitely poaching for the brightest, motivated students while offering them security and freedom from neuroticism to do whatever they want. Win-win and all around with pretty positive social externalities (sorry, I'm an econ guy), but still predatory.

Your counterargument is off. It's not about "I have high stats, going to get into top 10." We're not arguing that FlexMed kids just have high stats and will thus have done very well in the regular app process. We know it's not just about stats. FlexMed itself is, by definition, not just about stats. The regular application process is not just about stats. Your brother probably wouldn't have stood a chance at FlexMed with his "standard ECs." There's nothing standard about FlexMed. He's not a relevant case study for our research question. We are debating the prospects FlexMed-caliber (sorry to phrase it like that) students in the regular process.

Each and every one of the 51 people admitted to this new class already demonstrated a high level of interest for something outside of medicine. That sort of thing isn't just going to disappear under the rug during the regular process. We have every reason to believe that the applicants in question would have continued to exercise their interest in their particular field, though perhaps not to the extent that FlexMed kids will, and no reason to believe that those experiences won't be noticed when they apply traditionally. In fact, if we really want to go extreme with the counterfactuals, we could say that if the applicant had the insight of how top admissions committees seem to be viewing applicants, that the more time they spent on non-traditional premed stuff (i.e., not worrying about shadowing, volunteering, research, and all that bullsh*t QUITE as much), they'd be in a much better position to take on the top schools when they file regular apps. From what SDN says more and more throughout the years, I don't think this counterfactual is far-fetched at all.

Once you take into account the fact that we're talking about "full package" considerations here, the overall argument that those who were admitted to FlexMed would have also done extremely well at research-heavy universities (screw USNWR) two years after the FlexMed process still stands. You can't just say "no one is guaranteed into Hopkins" (yeah, no ****) and disregard the other aspects of what we are arguing. (Plus, Sinai isn't even top 10 status, so I don't quite get the emphasis on bringing in super top schools.)

You claim security, we argue for choice. Choice not necessarily (as you say) between Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, WashU, but choice nevertheless between very good programs (like Sinai). In fact, I'd wager that if we were to really measure the risk averseness of premeds (through complicated experimental techniques I won't get into), many would prefer the element of choice rather than a rigid lock-in halfway through their college years, which is exactly what the academic literature on the subject would predict.

Is this a serious question? Because if your "choices" through the traditional cycle are outside of the top 10, then foregoing FlexMed is, in my view, completely not worth it. You would, in essence, do a lot more work and take a lot more risk for little gain (especially if the applicant in question, like me, would easily attend Sinai over any non-top 5-10).

"Each and every one of the 51 people admitted to this new class already demonstrated a high level of interest for something outside of medicine. That sort of thing isn't just going to disappear under the rug during the regular process"
-I'm not saying that portions of the applicants' profiles wouldn't transfer over to the traditional admissions process. What I'm saying is that by the time the traditional app cycle rolls around many people (especially gunners on gap years) have already caught up to you EC-wise and will provide extremely stiff competition. Is there a chance that you'll land spots at top programs? Yes, but there's also a chance that you won't. It's up to the individual applicant to decide how "risk-averse" or otherwise to be. I was merely laying out why I think the program is a good idea. If you think that studying for the MCAT, gunning in classes for 2 more years, and piling on traditional (yes, no matter how unique your other stuff is, you'll still need all the traditional ECs for the normal app cycle) ECs is worth it to you for the possibility of getting in elsewhere then by all means don't apply (I just know that it wasn't worth it to me). That's obvious. People who post in this thread have (hopefully) already decided that they want to do it.
 

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That's scary...no love/IIs at all from the top 10? Was he just cookie cutter in terms of EC's?

I know :/. He did some pretty cool (in my eyes) stuff with the red cross abroad and had tons of research with big name people. He got interviewed at some top places, ended up getting waitlisted at Michigan, Columbia P&S (home school), Sinai (haha), and Baylor. Couldn't get off any of those waitlists.
 
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Purplownz

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I'm not discounting the validity of "one in hand is worth two in the bush" here because it definitely applies, but people at top (undergrad) programs already have top opportunities. There's no need for 'a guarantee'. In the case of your bro, they weren't shortchanged or anything. They got into many TOP NOTCH MD programs, meaning they were highly competitive. n=1 is REALLY bad here because were talking about the higher echelons where the difference between someone receiving 40k w/ acceptance and another receiving a rejection can be 1 EC, 1 Rec Letter, or just dumb luck.

Exactly. A lot of the app cycle is dumb luck and a crapshoot. He definitely got into some top notch MD programs, but nowhere that (in my opinion the misguided) pre-meds would label "more prestigious." The difference is that he had 1000 times the stress I did and god forbid something had happened on his MCAT test day and he had gotten a 31 or something (this happened to some 3.8+ people at my school). Apart from his miserable 4 MCAT months he had to stay on his toes for the rest of college, toiling away to make sure everything was maintained (relationships with letter writers, GPA, random ECs, etc). Some people might want to do that and for those people this program is not the best path to medical school. For others, however, I think this program is fantastic.
 
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Yale? I don't understand why people from hyper-competitive undergrads would apply to FlexMed. They have the potential to do really well at those undergrads and build impressive enough resumes that they could potentially be admitted to whatever school they wanted or receive financial incentives from schools like Icahn or somewhere else. With FlexMed you lose that leverage immediately.

Hmmm. Well, I'm a Yale sophomore, and am definitely interested in FlexMed. I don't understand why being at a hyper-competitive undergrad means that I'm a shoo-in for schools better than Icahn? I worked really hard last year and "only" got a 3.74 because everyone else is just so smart. I recognize that this is on the low end for FlexMed though so I'm not positive I'll bother applying, even though I have a killer SAT. I'm not expecting or even thinking about going to Yale or JHU or Harvard Med, so getting into Icahn at the end of this year and not having to worry about the 2015 MCAT would be a godsend.

Can you explain why going to a hyper-prestigious undergrad is going to help me so much in regular cycle med admissions? I honestly don't think it will and am in some ways questioning my decision to come here if it was just for premed.
 
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Lucca

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Hmmm. Well, I'm a Yale sophomore, and am definitely interested in FlexMed. I don't understand why being at a hyper-competitive undergrad means that I'm a shoo-in for schools better than Icahn? I worked really hard last year and "only" got a 3.74 because everyone else is just so smart. I recognize that this is on the low end for FlexMed though so I'm not positive I'll bother applying, even though I have a killer SAT. I'm not expecting or even thinking about going to Yale or JHU or Harvard Med, so getting into Icahn at the end of this year and not having to worry about the 2015 MCAT would be a godsend.

Can you explain why going to a hyper-prestigious undergrad is going to help me so much in regular cycle med admissions? I honestly don't think it will and am in some ways questioning my decision to come here if it was just for premed.

Historical data has shown that students for prestigious undergrads are more likely to be represented (if not overrepresented) at prestigious medical institutions. There is strong support thst this is true not because of the school itself but because of the opportunities the school offers. Let's just check off a few:

Smaller class sizes.

Less competition for research positions, working with faculty.

Prestige is strongly correlated with research quality and output so quality of experiences + related LORs is expected to be higher.

School name provides instant credibility for prestigious internships, scholarships and grants.

Recruiters from industry/corp. world heavily recruit students from prestigious undergrads, giving you and your peers more baseline options than another student at a less prestigious undergrad.

Prestigious school's are often associated with equally, if not more, prestigious graduate schools - this includes medical schools. These students have much easier access to the faculty there and their resources making it easier for them to get their foot in the door with networking.

Anecdotally other interviewees at prestigious med schools are mostly from prestigious undergrads, HYPSM, etc.


To he clear, here's what I'm not arguing: FlexMed should recruit students who don't have these sorts of boons or qualifications in exchange for students who will objectively have a harder time in the traditional app cycle. They arent a charity and they dont owe anyone anything. They owe their schools the best possible future physicians.



Here's what I am arguing: Students with these sorts of qualifications should not be dominating the applicant pool the way they currently are. It is a result of overcompensation, in my opinion, for things that would come very easily to them anyways. I suspect impostor syndrome is heavily at play with their being at highly competitive undergrads to begin with. I am arguing that highly qualified AND pedigreed students should do what they want anyways alongside the traditional requirements and apply the regular cycle. Highly qualified applicants with no pedigree or lesser pedigree SHOULD DEFINITELY consider FlexMed if they are mature enough to know medicine is what they want to do.

Also, I should add that I dont think anyone's choice regarding flex med is illegitimate. If it is the best thing for you, only you can know what. Mental health is after all far more important than how "good" your med school is. However, I find the fact that MOST of the students are coming from such places troubling because they might be throwing away financial and situational opportunities they could've otherwise had.
 
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Purplownz

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Hmmm. Well, I'm a Yale sophomore, and am definitely interested in FlexMed. I don't understand why being at a hyper-competitive undergrad means that I'm a shoo-in for schools better than Icahn? I worked really hard last year and "only" got a 3.74 because everyone else is just so smart. I recognize that this is on the low end for FlexMed though so I'm not positive I'll bother applying, even though I have a killer SAT. I'm not expecting or even thinking about going to Yale or JHU or Harvard Med, so getting into Icahn at the end of this year and not having to worry about the 2015 MCAT would be a godsend.

Can you explain why going to a hyper-prestigious undergrad is going to help me so much in regular cycle med admissions? I honestly don't think it will and am in some ways questioning my decision to come here if it was just for premed.
@Lucca
Because people who don't go to elite schools salivate at our "incredible opportunities" and blow the importance of name way out of proportion. What the people who go to these schools actually know (that they don't) is that we work just as hard if not harder because of the stiff competition and grade deflation at our undergrads, making the whole claim that you can "do whatever you want alongside the traditional requirements" while still being an amazing pre-med bogus. I've seen our pre-med placement. Last year a grand total of ~20-25 people got into elite med schools. Amazing opportunities outside of medicine? Last year we had ~500-600 people apply for bulge bracket investment banking gigs. The big name places interviewed around 80 and hired a grand total of 30 for full time positions. Same thing with consulting. Elite undergrads as a whole may be overrepresented at these places, but the actual fraction of students getting these gigs from elite schools is still very, very, small. Is this better than at lower tier schools? Absolutely. Have I gotten really good research opportunities at my school? Of course. Do I regret coming here? Definitely not. Does my school name provide me "instant credibility," and inherently better future prospects than those from lower tier schools? Largely exaggerated.

By the way, I do believe that med school name is much more important for residency applications (much more than undergrad matters for med school).

Final statement: Do whatever you want. Don't let random strangers dissuade you from applying to this program (if it is what you want to do). I would take people who harp about you being overqualified for something with a grain of salt. Think long and hard about what your goals are, and pursue them to the fullest. If this program falls into those then great. If not, then that's good too. Good luck!
 
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moop

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Hmmm. Well, I'm a Yale sophomore, and am definitely interested in FlexMed. I don't understand why being at a hyper-competitive undergrad means that I'm a shoo-in for schools better than Icahn? I worked really hard last year and "only" got a 3.74 because everyone else is just so smart. I recognize that this is on the low end for FlexMed though so I'm not positive I'll bother applying, even though I have a killer SAT. I'm not expecting or even thinking about going to Yale or JHU or Harvard Med, so getting into Icahn at the end of this year and not having to worry about the 2015 MCAT would be a godsend.

Can you explain why going to a hyper-prestigious undergrad is going to help me so much in regular cycle med admissions? I honestly don't think it will and am in some ways questioning my decision to come here if it was just for premed.
lol Yalies. Yale's admit stats speak for itself. I'm shocked that Columbia only gets 20-25 into elite schools a year; that's extraordinarily low compared to HYP.

 
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Purplownz

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lol Yalies. Yale's admit stats speak for itself. I'm shocked that Columbia only gets 20-25 into elite schools a year; that's extraordinarily low compared to HYP.


In your table you don't know how many overlap. The 23 people who got into Columbia may very well include the same 18 who got into Hopkins and the 15 who got into Cornell. If you differentiated the students you'd probably get around 30-35 unique elite school acceptances. My data is differentiated and I also have the matriculation data (although simply looking at matriculations excludes those who turned down elite schools for full rides).

edit: Just looked at my data again. 16 of the 17 people who got into Wash U also got into Penn and 15 of those got into Yale. The same trend holds for other schools (except the home school, which is inflated). In reality you have 25 rockstars who are pocketing acceptances at most of the same schools.
 
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moop

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In your table you don't know how many overlap. The 23 people who got into Columbia may very well include the same 18 who got into Hopkins and the 15 who got into Cornell. If you differentiated the students you'd probably get around 30-35 unique elite school acceptances. My data is differentiated and I also have the matriculation data (although simply looking at matriculations excludes those who turned down elite schools for full rides).
That is an absolutely correct analysis. So let's dig a little deeper, shall we?

Public map of matriculations over 3 years: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=...80128021.0004939a2e982c7daa1b7&z=3&dg=feature

Stanford: 19
UCSF: 8
Yale: 36
Chicago: 10
Hopkins: 11
Harvard: 25
Michigan: 8
WashU: 7
Columbia: 15
Sinai: 11
NYU: 9
Cornell: 10
Duke: 10
Penn: 24

Total = 19+8+36+10+11+25+8+7+15+11+9+10+10+24 = 203
203/3 = 67 attend top, elite schools per year from Yale.

Even if you take out Yale matriculations (which skew the data heavily and one could argue perhaps Yale favors its undergrads much more than Columbia does its own), you still end up with 203-36 = 167/3= 55 each year to top schools.

This doesn't prove anything for the FlexMed or not argument, but if we take @Purplownz's word that his stats from Columbia are accurate, Yale is a different tier altogether when it comes to getting those envied med school spots.
 
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Purplownz

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That is an absolutely correct analysis. So let's dig a little deeper, shall we?

Public map of matriculations over 3 years: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=...80128021.0004939a2e982c7daa1b7&z=3&dg=feature

Stanford: 19
UCSF: 8
Yale: 36
Chicago: 10
Hopkins: 11
Harvard: 25
Michigan: 8
WashU: 7
Columbia: 15
Sinai: 11
NYU: 9
Cornell: 10
Duke: 10
Penn: 24

Total = 19+8+36+10+11+25+8+7+15+11+9+10+10+24 = 203
203/3 = 67 attend top, elite schools per year from Yale.

Even if you take out Yale matriculations (which skew the data heavily and one could argue perhaps Yale favors its undergrads much more than Columbia does its own), you still end up with 203-36 = 167/3= 55 each year to top schools.

This doesn't prove anything for the FlexMed or not argument, but if we take @Purplownz's word that his stats from Columbia are accurate, Yale is a different tier altogether when it comes to getting those envied med school spots.

I limited my count to USNWR top 10. If I expand it we actually have comparable numbers (~55 ish). Nice analysis.
 
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Hmmm alright yeah I see your point. I suppose I just don't feel like I'm in that group of 25-35 absolute rockstar premeds. I mean I'll definitely apply to Yale Med, but honestly I'd be ecstatic just to get into my state flagship's COM... or Icahn. We'll see.
 

bynum95

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Hmm, I was going to apply to Flexmed. But now after seeing the statistics of last year, I will more than likely not apply. I was that genius high school student who didn't study nor take it seriously. I had a 4.0 high school GPA and thought I was a mini Einstein. Of course karma had to bite me in the ass and give me a mere 1650 SAT score:dead:. At least I realized the error of my ways. I doubt my current 3.85 GPA and extracurriculars would help in the slightest bit.
 
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