Flu shot season is here!

[Unchained]

Let us all participate in overhyping the lethality of the flu and not informing our patients of the low efficacy of the shot. After all nothing bad could happen to them from the shot and we'll be helping our corporations. There is no established VE and no studies done on receiving the shot for decades but who cares? Our patients don't know about that anyhow.

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[pillpharmer14]

I suppose you don't believe in the practice of preventative medicine either?

 

[owlegrad]

I am just curious, what would you need to start recommending flu shots?

 

[radio frequency]

Seriously? I'm excited every time I get to immunize somebody. Less chance I come down with their plague in the future!

 

[confettiflyer]

You forgot your aluminum foil hat and Jenny McCarthy poster.

 

[Corpseman]

Low efficacy? So you're are saying it works....

 

[Digsbe]

I think we should just recommend overpriced herbals from Dr. Oz to combat the flu, cancer, HIV, weight loss, and any other condition you have. Act now and you can get a special South American fruit extract for $59.95 that's clinically proven via 3 testimonials on TV to cure everything, tone your body, and lose all your excess body fat without side effects with no effort on your part. Oh, it also stops the flu and all sickness too.

Sarcasm aside, I don't see how any critically thinking educated pharmacist wouldn't recommend immunizations when not contraindicated.

 

[gwarm01]

Every year with this guy.

 

[Unchained]

Low efficacy? So you're are saying it works....

Please don't make me go into the whole vaccine effectiveness vs Vaccine Efficacy thing again. Reference the thread from last year or the CDC website. Basically vaccine effectiveness means nothing. Last years' flu shot got a whole 23% under the lower standard of vaccine effectiveness.

If only the sheep on here knew the lobbying efforts behind all of these unnecessary or ineffective vaccines they might actually learn something about how the world operates. Reference California and the politicians who were paid off to vote to remove exceptions to vaccinations. Why does it seem that everything bad starts in California and spreads across the nation? It does seem to be an eternal progressive cesspool.

 

[Lnsean]

I'm all for vaccinations, just not in the greedy context that these corporations are executing it. I guess in this case it's okay since the end will justify the means.

 

[confettiflyer]

I'm all for vaccinations, just not in the greedy context that these corporations are executing it. I guess in this case it's okay since the end will justify the means.

Screw that. I want my biotech stocks to rocket. They're not profiting enough!

 

[Corpseman]

Bring back polio, screw vaccines.

 

[SClENCE]

I'm all for vaccinations, just not in the greedy context that these corporations are executing it. I guess in this case it's okay since the end will justify the means.

Yeah they should create a product and then give it away for free. Greedy scumbags...

 

[Lnsean]

Yeah they should create a product and then give it away for free. Greedy scumbags...

Actually, no...it's not the cost that i am referring to as it's covered by most insurances. If only you were an actual pharmacist practicing...otherwise you woundn't understand. The post is a little above your pay grade.

 

[SClENCE]

Actually, no...it's not the cost that i am referring to as it's covered by most insurances. If only you were an actual pharmacist practicing...otherwise you woundn't understand. The post is a little above your pay grade.

Too much naturalnews.com for this guy

 

[BidingMyTime]

Has it been a whole year already? Seems like just last week the 2014 version of this thread was started.

But yeah, I thought last year your premise was that vaccines has *no* efficacy, but I guess you've upgraded to their having low efficacy now? Or is that just the flu vaccine that you think has any (albeit low) efficacy & you still believe all the other vaccines have no efficacy?

 

[SClENCE]

Has it been a whole year already? Seems like just last week the 2014 version of this thread was started.

But yeah, I thought last year your premise was that vaccines has *no* efficacy, but I guess you've upgraded to their having low efficacy now? Or is that just the flu vaccine that you think has any (albeit low) efficacy & you still believe all the other vaccines have no efficacy?

When explaining a vaccine don't forget to throw in a few buzz words like big corporation, genetically modified, unnatural, additives, political lobbying, etc.

 

[SClENCE]

Let us all participate in overhyping the lethality of the flu and not informing our patients of the low efficacy of the shot. After all nothing bad could happen to them from the shot and we'll be helping our corporations. There is no established VE and no studies done on receiving the shot for decades but who cares? Our patients don't know about that anyhow.

No studies?

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/publications.htm

The VE has been as high as 77% in some years. Even in elderly where the VE significantly drops vaccination is still profitable in terms of cost effectiveness.

 

[Estrace]

Pharmacists like you make this profession so boring... go away already please. Go to med school if you must.

 

[Unchained]

No studies?

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/publications.htm

The VE has been as high as 77% in some years. Even in elderly where the VE significantly drops vaccination is still profitable in terms of cost effectiveness.

If you actually took the time to read these you would see that there are major problems with these studies. They are still using vaccine effectiveness and not VE. One study gave it a VE of 12.8 in ages 50-64 and 8.4 in ages above 65. America has become dumbed down. We don't actually read anymore. We've got Wikipedia and click and paste geniuses.

 

[pillpharmer14]

If you actually took the time to read these you would see that there are major problems with these studies. They are still using vaccine effectiveness and not VE. One study gave it a VE of 12.8 in ages 50-64 and 8.4 in ages above 65. America has become dumbed down. We don't actually read anymore. We've got Wikipedia and click and paste geniuses.

Kids these days with their flu shots and their Wikipedia, Murica's goin down the toilet for sure.

 

[297point1]

Pharmacists like you make this profession so boring... go away already please. Go to med school if you must.

It is rather boring during the summer without the students around...Pharmacists like this make my summer exciting!

 

[Lnsean]

If you actually took the time to read these you would see that there are major problems with these studies. They are still using vaccine effectiveness and not VE. One study gave it a VE of 12.8 in ages 50-64 and 8.4 in ages above 65. America has become dumbed down. We don't actually read anymore. We've got Wikipedia and click and paste geniuses.

He's not going to understand you because that would require too much work. Copying and pasting is a lot easier.

 

[confettiflyer]

I wasn't aware Wikipedia changed their URL to cdc.gov

 

[trailerpark]

I offer flu shots. If a customer wants one I will give one. No one ever asks "do you think I should get a flu shot?". They ask and we fill it so what's the issue here, let the vaccine recipient make their own choice. I could care less either way.

 

[SClENCE]

If you actually took the time to read these you would see that there are major problems with these studies. They are still using vaccine effectiveness and not VE. One study gave it a VE of 12.8 in ages 50-64 and 8.4 in ages above 65. America has become dumbed down. We don't actually read anymore. We've got Wikipedia and click and paste geniuses.

Wow a vaccine was not as effective in an age group with the most crappy immune system. That must mean the vaccine is garbage. Funny how you are not citing other age groups and years where the vaccine was 70-80% effective.

How is using vaccine effectiveness as opposed to VE a problem? What the **** do you think VE stands for?

These are peer reviewed studies straight from the CDC website. Making up blatant lies about Wikipedia only tells me that you are a complete joke and have no point.

 

[zelman]

Wow a vaccine was not as effective in an age group with the most crappy immune system. That must mean the vaccine is garbage. Funny how you are not citing other age groups and years where the vaccine was 70-80% effective.

How is using vaccine effectiveness as opposed to VE a problem? What the **** do you think VE stands for? You're literally a joke.

These are peer reviewed studies straight from the CDC website. I guess making up blatant lies about Wikipedia is what *****s do when they have no point.

from http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectivenessqa.htm

When can vaccine effectiveness studies be conducted?
The most common approach now used to evaluate how well licensed influenza vaccines work is an observational or vaccine effectiveness study. Once an influenza vaccine has been licensed by FDA, recommendations are typically made by CDC's Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices (ACIP) for its routine use. For example, ACIP now recommends annual influenza vaccination for all U.S. residents aged 6 months and older. These universal vaccine recommendations make it unethical to perform efficacy (i.e., experimental randomized) studies with persons who are explicitly recommended to receive vaccine, especially because assigning people to a placebo group could place them at risk for serious complications from influenza.

 

[SClENCE]

from http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectivenessqa.htm

When can vaccine effectiveness studies be conducted?
The most common approach now used to evaluate how well licensed influenza vaccines work is an observational or vaccine effectiveness study. Once an influenza vaccine has been licensed by FDA, recommendations are typically made by CDC's Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices (ACIP) for its routine use. For example, ACIP now recommends annual influenza vaccination for all U.S. residents aged 6 months and older. These universal vaccine recommendations make it unethical to perform efficacy (i.e., experimental randomized) studies with persons who are explicitly recommended to receive vaccine, especially because assigning people to a placebo group could place them at risk for serious complications from influenza.

And your point?

How does CDC present data on flu vaccine effectiveness?
CDC typically presents vaccine effectiveness (VE) as a single point estimate: for example, 60%. This point estimate represents the reduction in risk provided by the flu vaccine. CDC vaccine effectiveness studies commonly measure laboratory confirmed flu illness that results in a doctor’s visit or urgent care visit as an outcome. For this outcome, a VE point estimate of 60% means that the flu vaccine reduces a person’s risk of developing flu illness that results in a visit to the doctor’s office or urgent care provider by 60%.

In addition to the VE point estimate, CDC also provides a “confidence interval” (CI) for this point estimate, for example, 60% (95% CI: 50%-70%). The confidence interval provides a lower boundary for the VE estimate (e.g., 50%) as well as an upper boundary (e.g., 70%). One way to interpret a 95% confidence interval is that if CDC were to repeat this study 100 times, 95 times out of 100, the VE point estimate would fall within the confidence interval (i.e., on or between 50% and 70%). There is still the possibility that five times out of 100 (a 5% chance) that CDC’s point estimate of VE could fall outside of the 50%-70% confidence interval.
​

VE = Vaccine effectiveness, which is what every article references.

 

[zelman]

And your point?...

It seems that they're upset that efficacy trials aren't done.

 

[Prepharm1214]

Already hearing it from my company about flu shots...dailies reminders about how we're not engaging enough, 'WTF zero flu shots yesterday store xxxx?!' You would think their existence relies solely on flu shots.

 

[Ackj]

Already hearing it from my company about flu shots...dailies reminders about how we're not engaging enough, 'WTF zero flu shots yesterday store xxxx?!' You would think their existence relies solely on flu shots.

You guys have it already? It's barely August. I know the recommendation says "as soon as vaccine is available" but give me a break.

 

[owlegrad]

Yeah, we have had it here for at least a week. I agree that it seems quite soon.

 

[trailerpark]

Do you guys have the Quad valent single-dose preservative/mercury/thimerosal free ones?

 

[owlegrad]

How can you be a pharmacist or a pharmacy student and think the mercury in vaccines is unsafe?!

That this is a real thing bums me out.

 

[zelman]

How can you be a pharmacist or a pharmacy student and think the mercury in vaccines is unsafe?!

That this is a real thing bums me out.

Of course it is. They put all kinds of dangerous things in drugs. My grandma's doctor told her to take calcium, but have you seen what happens to calcium in water? Dangerous stuff. Big pharma's out go get us all.