Fluent in Mandarin

[wjin06]

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Do we put this somewhere in the primary?

 

[jochi1543]

There's a Languages section there.

 

[coralfangs]

its just chinese

 

[xylophone]

its just chinese

i don't think AMCAS cares about the difference.

 

[Bengalswillwin]

No one cares if you are fluent in Mandarian (or even Hindi). They do care about people being fluent in Spanish and Ebnoics though

 

[riceman04]

No one cares if you are fluent in Mandarian (or even Hindi). They do care about people being fluent in Spanish and Ebnoics though

What is Ebnoics? Did you mean Ebonics?

what a weirdo!

 

[Cold Penguin]

Do we put this somewhere in the primary?

Language fluency is something that is already indicated in AMCAS. AMCAS will ask what your primary language is in your personal info section, and there is no need to write it again that you are good at Mandarin. It is more appropriate to mention it during your interview how your fluency in Mandarin came about to help you puruse your interest in medicine.

I was once shadowing a doctor, and a patient needed a Spanish translator. Apparently the doctor who was seeing the patient had interviewed my friend who was standing right next to me and surprisingly remembered the med school interview when my friend told him that he was fluent in Spanish. When he was asked to translate for the patient, he could not utter a short sentence for the patient, not to mention he had no idea how to translate all the medical jargons like endoscopy, biopsy, detailed anaylsis, etc. They managed to get a translator from the waiting room in ER, but that certainly did not leave a very pleasant mark on my friend and the doctor's impression on my friend who had once proudly mentioned of his ability to speak Spanish. My friend got really embarrassed by that incident, and ever since then, he has not been to his favorite Mexican restaurant.

When one says one speaks a language, there is no such thing as, "ohh I don't know how to say that word." You should be able to speak the language at the level you speak English on a daily basis. You don't speak the language, as we all know, after three years of college language classes or studying abroad in the foriegn country.

Having said this, ask yourself honestly if you are really fluent at it, and if so, then, mention that during the interview. Just the fact that you speak Mandarin is not going to guarantee you an interview. Also, as I mentioned it previously, there is a section in the beginning of AMCAS asking you to indicate your primary language. So, use that section to let them know that you speak Mandarin.

 

[badasshairday]

did you major in hard science?

How are the gilrs?

 

[Bengalswillwin]

Yes!
They are fine, and thank you. I am into Japanese girls btw!

 

[Darksmurf]

When one says one speaks a language, there is no such thing as, "ohh I don't know how to say that word." You should be able to speak the language at the level you speak English on a daily basis. You don't speak the language, as we all know, after three years of college language classes or studying abroad in the foriegn country.

Having said this, ask yourself honestly if you are really fluent at it, and if so, then, mention that during the interview. Just the fact that you speak Mandarin is not going to guarantee you an interview. Also, as I mentioned it previously, there is a section in the beginning of AMCAS asking you to indicate your primary language. So, use that section to let them know that you speak Mandarin.

This comment is naive. I agree that college language classes and a cursory study abroad do not equal fluency. But fluency does not mean that you know how to say every single word in the language, or even that you can say every word that you know in your native language. That's just silliness.

There are obviously all kinds of words that you don't know even in your native language. Fluency in a language does not mean that you are on the same level as a native. And even native speakers don't know jargon from professions and specialized areas of knowledge that they are unfamiliar with. For instance, both endoscopy and biopsy. Your average American, if they even know these words, probably doesn't know what they mean. He or she may have heard 'biopsy' on TV or something, but get them to tell you what it means and they'd be at a loss (just try asking your mother or grandfather or the guy behind the front desk at the library). Thus, they really don't know the word. There are hundreds upon hundreds of such words in all areas of life: sports (how do you say 'free-throw line' or 'safety'?), medicine (pick almost anything), car mechanics (what's the word for 'engine block'?, glass blowing (I couldn't even begin for this one), architecture (the word for 'flying butress'?), and the list goes on and on.

Now kid in the story you told about the spanish patient, were he fluent in Spanish, may not have known exactly the word for endoscopy or biopsy, but presuming that as a medical student he knew what the terms meant, he should have been able to describe them without using the exact words. For instance, "they are going to take a little bit of skin out and send it to the lab to check to see if it has a problem." In fact, that would probably be more useful in a clinical situation because the patient or his or her family members probably wouldn't know what biopsy meant in the first place, even in their native language. It seems that the protagonist of your story simply lied about his language ability if he couldn't explain the words. I guess that makes it a cautionary tell about exaggerating one's language prowess, but has no bearing on the fact that one can be a competent and fluent second-language speaker without being able to translate medical jargon.

Do we put this somewhere in the primary?

I would suggest adding your language proficiency somewhere on your primary application under ECs. For instance, most of my ECs where China-related: jobs I had in China, time I spent studying in China, trips I where I worked as a translator and interpreter in China. Moreover, I also put down my HSK score as a separate activity. Then again, I'm not a 'heritage' learner, as they say, and I've spent the last decade learning Chinese and living off and on in China, so that might not apply to your situation if you've learned some kitchen Chinese from your parents. But I will say that I'm sure that Chinese was the difference that got me interviews this last year at some of the so-called 'elite schools.' For what it's worth.

 

[DreamyKid]

Language fluency is something that is already indicated in AMCAS. AMCAS will ask what your primary language is in your personal info section, and there is no need to write it again that you are good at Mandarin. It is more appropriate to mention it during your interview how your fluency in Mandarin came about to help you puruse your interest in medicine.

I was once shadowing a doctor, and a patient needed a Spanish translator. Apparently the doctor who was seeing the patient had interviewed my friend who was standing right next to me and surprisingly remembered the med school interview when my friend told him that he was fluent in Spanish. When he was asked to translate for the patient, he could not utter a short sentence for the patient, not to mention he had no idea how to translate all the medical jargons like endoscopy, biopsy, detailed anaylsis, etc. They managed to get a translator from the waiting room in ER, but that certainly did not leave a very pleasant mark on my friend and the doctor's impression on my friend who had once proudly mentioned of his ability to speak Spanish. My friend got really embarrassed by that incident, and ever since then, he has not been to his favorite Mexican restaurant.

When one says one speaks a language, there is no such thing as, "ohh I don't know how to say that word." You should be able to speak the language at the level you speak English on a daily basis. You don't speak the language, as we all know, after three years of college language classes or studying abroad in the foriegn country.

Having said this, ask yourself honestly if you are really fluent at it, and if so, then, mention that during the interview. Just the fact that you speak Mandarin is not going to guarantee you an interview. Also, as I mentioned it previously, there is a section in the beginning of AMCAS asking you to indicate your primary language. So, use that section to let them know that you speak Mandarin.

Translating can be difficult. I can understand everything easily (note I was born in a foreign country and came when I was 9), but if you ask me to translate something, I may not use the correct terms and ahve to explain the idea in a circle rather than a few words.

 

[CAS97209]

Translating can be difficult. I can understand everything easily (note I was born in a foreign country and came when I was 9), but if you ask me to translate something, I may not use the correct terms and ahve to explain the idea in a circle rather than a few words.

There are so many words that are unique to a language that makes translating them impossible. You are left trying to describe rather than translate exactly. Once, in an English class, my professor asked me to translate a foreword written in French. After I translated it for him, he told me that he had had it translated for him before by 5 other people who were fluent, and that each person gave a slightly different translation, depending on how they interpreted the foreword, and which words/meanings they decided to emphasize. Translating from language to language is more difficult than simply being able to converse in a foreign language.

 

[Cold Penguin]

This comment is naive. I agree that college language classes and a cursory study abroad do not equal fluency. But fluency does not mean that you know how to say every single word in the language, or even that you can say every word that you know in your native language. That's just silliness.

but presuming that as a medical student he knew what the terms meant, he should have been able to describe them without using the exact words. For instance, "they are going to take a little bit of skin out and send it to the lab to check to see if it has a problem."

I am specifically talking about the kind of fluency that allows you to work as a translator in a medical setting.

Explaining what biopsy comes after you mention the name of the procedure you explain to the patient, his or her family, etc. If the translator keeps having to "describe" things without naming the procedure, that says something about the ability of the translator. Having to explain what "biopsy" after mentioning the word "biopsy" goes without saying, and you explain what it is -- not because the patient may not know about it but -- because it has to be explained because that's part of the translator's reponsibility.

Let's say that I go to a foriegn country where I don't speak the language, get sick and go to hospital. The translator is describing me the procedure by saying that they are going to take out a tissue from my body and do some analysis. I ask, "is that biopsy?" through the translator, and the translator reponds, "umm, mmmm, I just dont know what's called, but it sounds like it." Now I am there only doubting what really they are going to do on me. This kind of translating situation leaves both educated and uneducated patients to be treated with less trust on the medial team. In a more critical situation like emergency surgery or child labor, the importance of efficient translation cannot be enough stressed.

No, you probably don't have to know every word to be a translator, but you should be at the level where you recognize the commonly spoken medical-related words on a daily basis. You don't say words like glassblowing, car mechanics-related words everyday unless you happen to stop by a cool glassblowing store or just had a broken car.

I am also speaking from my experience. Some of my friends who wrote that they were fluent in cenrtain languages on their hospital profile had been on call for translation and have been asked to revise their profile. So, if you think you can fluently translate a medical situation as little explaining(as a result of not knowing the word you need) as possible, go for it. It's not about saying how many languages one speaks, but it's about how comfortable the patient with English problems can trust your translation.

A colleague of mine who speaks French once interviewed an applicant who wrote that she was fluent at it. During the interview, he asked her to describe herself in French, and that went pretty bad with broken grammar and horrible pronunciation skills. And, that was the first question during that interview. What a weird interview it could have been to the applicant, but the applicant actually started all that by mentioning in AMCAS that she got fluent in French after studying abroad for one semester. She interviewed with me right after that horrible interview, and she was a fine candidate but I could not erase what my French-speaking colleague told me about her. The girl told me about her first interview and told me, "I just couldn't come up with words because it has been so long since I was there." Well, despite of my sympathy for her, I had to whisper to myself, "well, that's why you don't say you speak a certain language unless you are really fluent at it"

Correction made: your secondary application is a good place to mention it. EC section on AMCAS seems to be appropriate for something that is more substantial.

 

[riceman04]

Stop eating Rice, Chinaman!

hahahahaha

loco en la cabeza

 

[wjin06]

Anyone remember where it is in the primary? I went through it once to look for some questoin about what is your native language, etc., and just didn't see it and that's why I posted cause that seemed strange not to ask.

 

[Cold Penguin]

Anyone remember where it is in the primary? I went through it once to look for some questoin about what is your native language, etc., and just didn't see it and that's why I posted cause that seemed strange not to ask.

Primary app is not of course have such a question, "What is your primary/best language?" Schools have a different set of questions on their primary application. When we recommended you to put it in the primary application, we meant you to craft your essay or short essay questions so that your mentioning of your ability to speak Mandarin can be nicely intergrated.

It is not strange that they don't ask you that question in the secondary app because AMCAS already asked you that info in your biographical section.

 

[wjin06]

"It is not strange that they don't ask you that question in the primary app because AMCAS already asked you that info in your biographical section."

Isn't the primary app the AMCAS form, a part of which contains the biographical info?

 

[notdeadyet]

When he was asked to translate for the patient, he could not utter a short sentence for the patient, not to mention he had no idea how to translate all the medical jargons like endoscopy, biopsy, detailed anaylsis, etc.

Your average American doesn't know specific medical terms like endoscopy, biopsy, etc. Not knowing how to say it in Spanish doesn't mean you can't speak the language.

You don't need to be fluent to say you know how to speak a language. Fluent is specific, but saying "I speak Spanish" is vague and doesn't mean much. I speak Spanish. Not well, but I can get by. I don't have to be fluent to claim an ability to speak it.

By the way, "jargon" as describing vocabulary is a mass noun, meaning it is never plural. Not only do we all have limitations in our second languages, we all have limitations in our first as well. It's alllllll relative.

 

[Ari Gold]

"It is not strange that they don't ask you that question in the primary app because AMCAS already asked you that info in your biographical section."

Isn't the primary app the AMCAS form, a part of which contains the biographical info?

yea that cold penguin has no idea what he's talking about. Amcas is the primary app and they do ask it. and he's been around since 2004....nice

 

[Ari Gold]

I am specifically talking about the kind of fluency that allows you to work as a translator in a medical setting.

Having to explain what "biopsy" after mentioning the word "biopsy" goes without saying, and you explain what it is -- not because the patient may not know about it but -- because it has to be explained because that's part of the translator's reponsibility.

.....The translator is describing me the procedure by saying that they are going to take out a tissue from my body and do some analysis. I ask, "is that biopsy?" through the translator, and the translator reponds, "umm, mmmm, I just dont know what's called, but it sounds like it."
.....
No, you probably don't have to know every word to be a translator, but you should be at the level where you recognize the commonly spoken medical-related words on a daily basis.

We want to be DOCTORS not TRANSLATORS. Yes a translator should know nearly every word of a language bc thats what they get paid for. a doctor gets paid for medical treatment. if a doctor can communicate effectively in another language than that's a plus.

putting a language down on your app does not mean you are applying for a translator position. it just means that you're relatively fluent.

i have no idea where you got this translator stuff from.

 

[Tropicana100]

No one cares if you are fluent in Mandarian (or even Hindi). They do care about people being fluent in Spanish and Ebnoics though

Has anyone here actually studied Ebonics formally?

 

[Tropicana100]

We want to be DOCTORS not TRANSLATORS. Yes a translator should know nearly every word of a language bc thats what they get paid for. a doctor gets paid for medical treatment. if a doctor can communicate effectively in another language than that's a plus.

putting a language down on your app does not mean you are applying for a translator position. it just means that you're relatively fluent.

i have no idea where you got this translator stuff from.

True, but a 2nd language can really help you on the application. A few schools like Stanford almost expect that you know at least one foreign langauge. UCLA, UCI, and USC like Spanish-speakers. It's not required but it definitiely boosts your application somewhat. Most schools don't care because it won't have any use in their patient population.

 

[Cold Penguin]

We want to be DOCTORS not TRANSLATORS. Yes a translator should know nearly every word of a language bc thats what they get paid for. a doctor gets paid for medical treatment. if a doctor can communicate effectively in another language than that's a plus.

putting a language down on your app does not mean you are applying for a translator position. it just means that you're relatively fluent.

i have no idea where you got this translator stuff from.

Ari Gold,

You are taking things way too seriously. It's my fault that I used "primary" when I meant "secondary" application. Having interviewed candidates, I have seen way too many candidates who have written, "I speak X and Y," only to be found that wasn't the case.

You lost the point of my post. Unless you are fluent, don't mention that you "speak" the language and make sure you make a cautious note such as "working knowledge," "functiona" or "some knowledge" within a parenthesis next to it. The example of translation in the medical setting I wrote above was to give you the picture of what could happen after giving the false impression that you speak X without thinking much about it.

To OP: "Language" section comes under "3. Biographical section" in your AMCAS (=primary application people often call) They have a section called "Languages" Mention it there, and if you wish to, mention it again in your secondary appp as in the form of essay and short essays if you wish to) You have to log on to get to the section "3. Biographical Section" because you won't see it on the print-out.

 

[Cold Penguin]

True, but a 2nd language can really help you on the application. A few schools like Stanford almost expect that you know at least one foreign langauge. UCLA, UCI, and USC like Spanish-speakers. It's not required but it definitiely boosts your application somewhat. Most schools don't care because it won't have any use in their patient population.

100% Agreed. Ability to speak a language with fluency is often a better way to weigh two candidates with similar academic records. Picking someone who got A- over someone who got B+ in a certain class may be of the process a couple of years ago, but not anymore. However, it's not the sure way to get into schools either. If you are fluent in a certain language, it's just an extra ability that you have but others cannot acquire in a short peorid of time.

 

[Ari Gold]

True, but a 2nd language can really help you on the application. A few schools like Stanford almost expect that you know at least one foreign langauge. UCLA, UCI, and USC like Spanish-speakers. It's not required but it definitiely boosts your application somewhat. Most schools don't care because it won't have any use in their patient population.

did you read my post? how does this contradict what i said?

i said it's a "plus" which i guess you can take to mean "can really help you on the application"

no need for the "true, but"

 

[Ari Gold]

Ari Gold,

You are taking things way too seriously. It's my fault that I used "primary" when I meant "secondary" application. Having interviewed candidates, I have seen way too many candidates who have written, "I speak X and Y," only to be found that wasn't the case.

You lost the point of my post. Unless you are fluent, don't mention that you "speak" the language and make sure you make a cautious note such as "working knowledge," "functiona" or "some knowledge" within a parenthesis next to it. The example of translation in the medical setting I wrote above was to give you the picture of what could happen after giving the false impression that you speak X without thinking much about it.

To OP: "Language" section comes under "3. Biographical section" in your AMCAS (=primary application people often call) They have a section called "Languages" Mention it there, and if you wish to, mention it again in your secondary appp as in the form of essay and short essays if you wish to) You have to log on to get to the section "3. Biographical Section" because you won't see it on the print-out.

and what most of the people here are saying is your defenition of 'fluent' is rediculous. by that standard none of my spanish teachers could be considered "fluent" in spanish. and for that matter most of the english teachers wouldn't be fluent in english. 'fluent' doesnt mean 'knows every single word'

read the posts dude

 

[North Penguin]

(rolling my eyes) Ari Gold, how did your application to Ponce School of Medicine go? P.S. I am not related to Cold Penguin whatsoever

 

[Tropicana100]

did you read my post? how does this contradict what i said?

i said it's a "plus" which i guess you can take to mean "can really help you on the application"

no need for the "true, but"

point taken. my apologies.

 

[Ari Gold]

(rolling my eyes) Ari Gold, how did your application to Ponce School of Medicine go? P.S. I am not related to Cold Penguin whatsoever

😕 i didnt apply to ponce 😕 i'm not PR and my spanish sucks

just because i call people out on being dumba$$es doesnt mean i need to have a vested interest in my argument.

pueto rico is not carribean med school. DUH
fluent speakers doesnt mean you know the entire lexicon. HELLO

im going to a top 30, if thats your next question
make sure to tell me how your app to DO schools go, i'll be pulling for you

 

[nick_carraway]

I am specifically talking about the kind of fluency that allows you to work as a translator in a medical setting.

Explaining what biopsy comes after you mention the name of the procedure you explain to the patient, his or her family, etc. If the translator keeps having to "describe" things without naming the procedure, that says something about the ability of the translator. Having to explain what "biopsy" after mentioning the word "biopsy" goes without saying, and you explain what it is -- not because the patient may not know about it but -- because it has to be explained because that's part of the translator's reponsibility.

I agree with Ari that it sounds like you're framing fluency as being able to translate for native speakers. That's ridiculous. The United Nations doesn't hire every fluent speaker that they interview. They hire the ones who can translate properly--never missing the nuance of a word, always knowing the right word to use. Yet the UN's definition of a translator is your definition of a fluent speaker. Fluency does not equate to ability to translate perfectly.

My parents both lived in Taiwan until university age. They studied English there and they've lived in the U.S. for nearly 40 years. Yet sometimes they don't even know the proper word to use when translating. Would you argue that they are not fluent in Mandarin or English? You created a false relationship between the fluent speakers and translators where none exists.

 

[Meatwad]

(rolling my eyes) Ari Gold, how did your application to Ponce School of Medicine go? P.S. I am not related to Cold Penguin whatsoever

An ad hominem just out of left-field then, eh?

 

[North Penguin]

I agree with Ari that it sounds like you're framing fluency as being able to translate for native speakers. That's ridiculous. The United Nations doesn't hire every fluent speaker that they interview. They hire the ones who can translate properly--never missing the nuance of a word, always knowing the right word to use. Yet the UN's definition of a translator is your definition of a fluent speaker. Fluency does not equate to ability to translate perfectly.

My parents both lived in Taiwan until university age. They studied English there and they've lived in the U.S. for nearly 40 years. Yet sometimes they don't even know the proper word to use when translating. Would you argue that they are not fluent in Mandarin or English? You created a false relationship between the fluent speakers and translators where none exists.

I guess people who speak some dialect of Chinese have a pretty good amount of pride in that. Okay calm down no one said your parents did not know how to speak English

 

[Ari Gold]

I guess people who speak some dialect of Chinese have a pretty good amount of pride in that. Okay calm down no one said your parents did not know how to speak English

I'm wondering how the Penguins miss the point of every single post. They're Oh fer.

 

[girlpharmacyboy]

I guess people who speak some dialect of Chinese have a pretty good amount of pride in that. Okay calm down no one said your parents did not know how to speak English

Ya.