Fresh grad: got a job in big pharma, plus working towards another degree, should i bother getting licensed as a pharmacist at all??

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Hedgehog32 said:
It's not that I'm particularly obsessed with cybersecurity more than any other tech industry niche; it's just that after researching all the various options for pivoting into a tech profession with a high level of demand and a solid job market, cybersecurity seems to be the path of least resistance.

To be more specific, the entry-level CS programs that are out there have more barriers to entry, aside from UPenn's MCIT program, which I applied to and was rejected from (which was pretty much the expected outcome, considering that they receive ~2k apps per cycle and only accept around 100 students into each class). Boston U has an online MS in software dev, but they require applicants who lack tech backgrounds to take a prerequisite course that essentially serves as a crash course in undergrad CS that they must earn a "B" grade in before they can be admitted to the MS program.

This wouldn't be a problem, except for the fact that I wouldn't qualify for any form of financial aid to cover the ~$2k it would cost to take the prep course. And what if I take the course and end up end up passing it one grade point short of a B? Then I'll have wasted $2k and still not have an acceptance in hand to a CS program. That's just too much of a risk for me to take since I'm not really in a position to spend $2k out of pocket with no guarantee of a program acceptance. It would be a different story if the cost of the course could be covered via federal student loans.

It's just a case of really bad timing for me since I was fired from my intern position (along with the other interns) several months ago, combined with the fact that there aren't any opportunities available to me to earn an even somewhat high income, as there isn't even a single retail grad intern position open in my area. So basically, if I don't get something lined up soon, I'm going to have no choice but to take a low-wage blue collar job and still not be in the position of earning enough money to pay the $2k for the prerequisite course.

On the other hand, even though the cybersecurity programs also require applicants who lack CS backgrounds to take a couple prerequisite courses, the prerequisite courses are included in the curriculum of the cybersecurity program itself (they're taken during the first semester of the program). So in other words, I'd be able to start the cybersecurity program this summer/fall and qualify for federal loans right from the outset. I wouldn't have to make a $2k-$3k gamble on taking a prep course before even being permitted to participate in the application process.

The other advantage to the cybersecurity programs is brevity; the 3 programs I'm looking at can all be completed in a year, whereas the CS/software dev programs would all take 2-2.5 years. At this point, I really need to waste as little time as possible earning an in-demand qualification that can put me in the position of obtaining a solid white-collar career.

So yeah, even if completing a cybersecurity program won't put me in the position where I'm able to make use of both degrees in a "hybrid" sense, I might just have to write off the pharmacy degree as a tremendous waste of time and money and focus on being as successful as I can as a cybersecurity professional.

FWIW, the people (n = 3) I've talked to who have transitioned from pharmacy to traditional CS/SWE aren't working in positions where they're making any use of the pharm degree, so there's no guarantee that a traditional CS job would see me getting any value of the pharm degree anyways.
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I don't know if you actually researched the job market carefully or not. But tbh, some cybersecurity analyst jobs are notoriously difficult to get. It is a very very narrow field. Defense contractors require security clearance and very unique set of skills that is uber difficult to pick up anywhere in the civilian world. I wonder if you have ever read a cybersecurity analyst job posting from Lockheed Martin or General Dynamics. It's far from you think: get a degree in cybersecurity in a year then there is always a job waiting at the other end. No, you have to match your skill very well with what they want.
 
Hedgehog32 said:
Yeah, like I stated in my post above, I might just have to write off my pharmacy degree altogether and focus on starting a career in cybersecurity. The good news is that I've talked to recent graduates of the programs I'm looking at applying to, and they told me that essentially everyone in their class has received lucrative job offers prior to graduation.

One of the grads I talked to actually mentioned making sure to get the Security+ cert that you mentioned while I'm a student in the program. He also told me that during the last 13 weeks of the program, students are given a 13-wk prep course for a certification called CISSP, which is apparently some sort of "gold standard" certification in the cybersecurity industry.

Anyways, like I've said in previous posts, at this point I'm just trying to do as much research as possible so that I DON'T make the same mistake I made when I decided to attend pharmacy school.
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Google is always your best friend~
I don't know who that "grad" is, but if that is indeed what he said, he's pretty much outright lying to you. You need at least 5 years of professional experience to qualify for CISSP. In the world of CS and IT, there is no such thing as a "gold standard" certificate. No, it's whether you can do the job or not. A degree does not even matter that much.
 
harvoni_rituxan said:
There is actually a big difference between my career path and other industry fellows or hospital residents. I have a 9-5 job that pays full salary and funds my continuing study, which will expands my horizon into the future without any financial burden. Fellows and residents are paid less than half of what I make, and after 2 years, they still have nothing guaranteed. In a recession like this magnitude of sky high unemployment, a job provides financial protection, relevant work experience and a peace of mind. What happens after finishing residency or fellowship, but there is no job waiting. There are too many uncertainties to think about.

The thing is, there are no jobs. It doesn't matter how much a hypothetical job can pay. If it doesn't exist, it pays nothing. In my area, three letters are not even hiring pharmacists. They hire techs, and they hire cashiers, but they don't want pharmacists. Of course a FT + OT three letters pharmacists can hypothetically make close to 200k, but if they are cutting hours, let alone hiring new grads, there is ZERO money to be made.
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That is true; a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Just to clear something up, hospital pharmacists in California make more than retail (just what I'm inferring from you mentioning three letters pharmacists). Kaiser/union is ~85/hr, non-union ~75, retail ~65-70, and grocery ~60-65.
 
TheBlaah said:
That is true; a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Just to clear something up, hospital pharmacists in California make more than retail (just what I'm inferring from you mentioning three letters pharmacists). Kaiser/union is ~85/hr, non-union ~75, retail ~65-70, and grocery ~60-65.
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The rate for new grads in retail has dropped to 50-55 earlier this year in my area, and many inpatient pharmacist openings posted weeks ago literally required pgy-2. When the dust settles and hiring comes back (at least late next year if not the year after next year), I would expect both to drop further. People will be so desperate to grab any job that helps pay bills.
 
harvoni_rituxan said:
Google is always your best friend~
I don't know who that "grad" is, but if that is indeed what he said, he's pretty much outright lying to you. You need at least 5 years of professional experience to qualify for CISSP. In the world of CS and IT, there is no such thing as a "gold standard" certificate. No, it's whether you can do the job or not. A degree does not even matter that much.
Click to expand...

So there is no such thing as an entry-level cybersecurity job? In other words, I would literally be graduating with a degree that's just as unmarketable as my pharmacy degree?

BTW, this is the program the person I talked to graduated from. It also has info on the CISSP prep course:

cybersecurity.iu.edu

Career Preparation

Find out how the M.S. in Cybersecurity Risk Management will help you prepare for your future—or current—career.
cybersecurity.iu.edu cybersecurity.iu.edu

So I guess if you actually have to have 5 yrs of work experience to qualify to take the exam and there is no such thing as an entry-level cybersecurity job, then I guess the program is a scam? Would I literally be jobless afterwards?
 
Hedgehog32 said:
So there is no such thing as an entry-level cybersecurity job? In other words, I would literally be graduating with a degree that's just as unmarketable as my pharmacy degree?

BTW, this is the program the person I talked to graduated from. It also has info on the CISSP prep course:

cybersecurity.iu.edu

Career Preparation

Find out how the M.S. in Cybersecurity Risk Management will help you prepare for your future—or current—career.
cybersecurity.iu.edu cybersecurity.iu.edu

So I guess if you actually have to have 5 yrs of work experience to qualify to take the exam and there is no such thing as an entry-level cybersecurity job, then I guess the program is a scam? Would I literally be jobless afterwards?
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there is google, and there is wikipedia......

Certified Information Systems Security Professional - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The website claims "100% of our graduates are working full time or are serving in the U.S. military", and therefore "90% of our graduates employed full time are in a position associated with their degree". WTF?

and there is always almighty reddit......



It seems to me you have done very little in-depth market research with what you said you wanna do. I spent like 2 minutes on google, and this is it.
 
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harvoni_rituxan said:
there is google, and there is wikipedia......

Certified Information Systems Security Professional - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The website claims "100% of our graduates are working full time or are serving in the U.S. military", and therefore "90% of our graduates employed full time are in a position associated with their degree". WTF?

and there is always almighty reddit......



It seems to me you have done very little in-depth market research with what you said you wanna do. I spent like 2 minutes on google, and this is it.
Click to expand...


Well, shame on me for having the audacity to want to pursue an in-demand career under circumstances that I can actually afford to pursue. And for the record, this is what the recent graduate of IU's program told me, word-for-word (it is very long, just to warn you):

"I recently graduated from Indiana University's MS program in cybersecurity risk management. I highly recommend it because you can focus on either the technical, business, or policy dimensions of cybersecurity. I took technical courses alongside computer science graduate students, business classes at the Kelley School of Business in their MBA program, and law and policy courses with law students. I wrapped up my degree with the IU Cybersecurity Clinic, where I worked with the City of Bloomington on how to defend against ransomware attacks. I also worked with a team to present to the NATO Cooperate Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence on the technical and policy dimensions of the attribution of cyber attacks.

But if you choose, your coursework can only be a part of your degree program. I participated in the Cyber 9/12 Strategy Competition with the Atlantic Council twice, interned with a consulting firm in Chicago in cyber risk, and I am wrapping up an internship with the IU incident response team.

If you go to IU, you will get access to the School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering and the Kelley School of Business career services. If you are remotely proactive, recruiting will not be a problem. Many people go into the private sector to Deloitte, PWC, Accenture, but also some others are recruited into industry positions and with federal agencies. I have turned down several offers.

Almost everyone graduating in my program has an offer. I am going to work for a federal agency through a fellowship program, where I will be working in cloud security before I move to DC to work in the private sector.

The KSU program seems to be focused within the technical domain of cybersecurity. It seems solid. But if you are focused on recruitment and working immediately after your degree, I would highly recommend IU.

Many people in this forum will say "work help desk" or "Get your A+, Network+, and Security+ and work at a NOC." But you're not an entry level person by any means. You have other skills, given your pharmacy degree that consulting firms will particularly like. I am studying for the Security+ exam and plan on taking the CISSP exam in about a year. The IU program has a free CISSP prep program and several of my friends that have more experience than me recently earned their CISSP certifications."

So I'm assuming that that guy and all his classmates who obtained jobs are simply lucky outliers? And I'll be destined to be unmarketable and jobless if I do the program?
 
Hedgehog32 said:
Well, shame on me for having the audacity to want to pursue an in-demand career under circumstances that I can actually afford to pursue. And for the record, this is what the recent graduate of IU's program told me, word-for-word (it is very long, just to warn you):

"I recently graduated from Indiana University's MS program in cybersecurity risk management. I highly recommend it because you can focus on either the technical, business, or policy dimensions of cybersecurity. I took technical courses alongside computer science graduate students, business classes at the Kelley School of Business in their MBA program, and law and policy courses with law students. I wrapped up my degree with the IU Cybersecurity Clinic, where I worked with the City of Bloomington on how to defend against ransomware attacks. I also worked with a team to present to the NATO Cooperate Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence on the technical and policy dimensions of the attribution of cyber attacks.

But if you choose, your coursework can only be a part of your degree program. I participated in the Cyber 9/12 Strategy Competition with the Atlantic Council twice, interned with a consulting firm in Chicago in cyber risk, and I am wrapping up an internship with the IU incident response team.

If you go to IU, you will get access to the School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering and the Kelley School of Business career services. If you are remotely proactive, recruiting will not be a problem. Many people go into the private sector to Deloitte, PWC, Accenture, but also some others are recruited into industry positions and with federal agencies. I have turned down several offers.

Almost everyone graduating in my program has an offer. I am going to work for a federal agency through a fellowship program, where I will be working in cloud security before I move to DC to work in the private sector.

The KSU program seems to be focused within the technical domain of cybersecurity. It seems solid. But if you are focused on recruitment and working immediately after your degree, I would highly recommend IU.

Many people in this forum will say "work help desk" or "Get your A+, Network+, and Security+ and work at a NOC." But you're not an entry level person by any means. You have other skills, given your pharmacy degree that consulting firms will particularly like. I am studying for the Security+ exam and plan on taking the CISSP exam in about a year. The IU program has a free CISSP prep program and several of my friends that have more experience than me recently earned their CISSP certifications."

So I'm assuming that that guy and all his classmates who obtained jobs are simply lucky outliers? And I'll be destined to be unmarketable and jobless if I do the program?
Click to expand...
Your goals are respectable; I would just encourage you to be more data driven and deliberate in your approach.

Ideally you want a degree to synergize with your PharmD unless you want to leave healthcare entirely. That’s for a few reasons: 1) less of a leap, more in your wheelhouse 2) more opportunities to be seen as an integrative expert 3) stronger and more seamless personal narrative

E.g., MSCS, MSDS, MSF, MPH, MBA. Each one of these can lead to positions across the spectrum of healthcare and its adjacencies, such as:
MSF for Equity Research at Cowen
MBA for Marketing at BMS
MPH for Program Manager at UnitedHealthcare
MSDS for Analytics at Flatiron Health
MSCS for Product Manager at Illumina
 
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VA77 said:
Since you are posting about CS degrees and the Bay area, you may want to remember what happened below.

www.latimes.com

Column: How the University of California exploited a visa loophole to move tech jobs to India

Using a visa loophole to fire well-paid U.S. information technology workers and replace them with low-paid immigrants from India is despicable enough when it’s done by profit-making companies such as Southern California Edison and Walt Disney Co.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com
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I don't work for UC. My employer has increasing appetite for quant people on the contrary. Digital personalized healthcare is here to stay and growing faster than ever. Telemedicine is driving hospitals and clinics into heavy financial losses right now. Whether the trend continues heading into future, we can only wait and see.
 
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Hedgehog32 said:
Well, shame on me for having the audacity to want to pursue an in-demand career under circumstances that I can actually afford to pursue. And for the record, this is what the recent graduate of IU's program told me, word-for-word (it is very long, just to warn you):

"I recently graduated from Indiana University's MS program in cybersecurity risk management. I highly recommend it because you can focus on either the technical, business, or policy dimensions of cybersecurity. I took technical courses alongside computer science graduate students, business classes at the Kelley School of Business in their MBA program, and law and policy courses with law students. I wrapped up my degree with the IU Cybersecurity Clinic, where I worked with the City of Bloomington on how to defend against ransomware attacks. I also worked with a team to present to the NATO Cooperate Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence on the technical and policy dimensions of the attribution of cyber attacks.

But if you choose, your coursework can only be a part of your degree program. I participated in the Cyber 9/12 Strategy Competition with the Atlantic Council twice, interned with a consulting firm in Chicago in cyber risk, and I am wrapping up an internship with the IU incident response team.

If you go to IU, you will get access to the School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering and the Kelley School of Business career services. If you are remotely proactive, recruiting will not be a problem. Many people go into the private sector to Deloitte, PWC, Accenture, but also some others are recruited into industry positions and with federal agencies. I have turned down several offers.

Almost everyone graduating in my program has an offer. I am going to work for a federal agency through a fellowship program, where I will be working in cloud security before I move to DC to work in the private sector.

The KSU program seems to be focused within the technical domain of cybersecurity. It seems solid. But if you are focused on recruitment and working immediately after your degree, I would highly recommend IU.

Many people in this forum will say "work help desk" or "Get your A+, Network+, and Security+ and work at a NOC." But you're not an entry level person by any means. You have other skills, given your pharmacy degree that consulting firms will particularly like. I am studying for the Security+ exam and plan on taking the CISSP exam in about a year. The IU program has a free CISSP prep program and several of my friends that have more experience than me recently earned their CISSP certifications."

So I'm assuming that that guy and all his classmates who obtained jobs are simply lucky outliers? And I'll be destined to be unmarketable and jobless if I do the program?
Click to expand...
This guy is studying for CISSP exam, so he has at least 4 years of relevant work experience in cyberdefense roles, minimum. He "worked with a team to present to the NATO Cooperate Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence on the technical and policy dimensions of the attribution of cyber attacks.", so he also likely has security clearance, possibly along with a military background. He's definitely NOT an entry level. He is a seasoned veteran. He said you are not entry level, do you seriously believe that? Take me as an example, I can work at G for 5 years, then go back to school for a part-time executive MBA, after I get that MBA and secure a director role at another company after 7 years of industry experience, should I encourage everyone including fresh PharmD grads to enroll in the hypothetical MBA program, cuz I "have turned down several offers", and "almost everyone graduating in my program", who are at least 5 years into their career, has a job offer?

At best, he's just ONE data point. Just like one of my friend who got an industry fellowship at Sanofi Genzyme this year, she can tell everyone the PharmD degree has effectively helped launch her career, and all her friends have either got a fellowship or a job directly after pharmacy school. Does what she said mean a PharmD at my school is good investment? Hell no, I am regretting it. Whatever my friend and that cybersecurity guy said were both clearly coming from a survivor bias angle.

By all means, I don't want to discourage you in your pursuit of another degree. After all, I am doing the same. But you need to research a lot more on whatever career track you are about to embark, at least not just trust whatever the program website says and a few of their successful graduates said. It's part of their marketing campaign to recruit students, in very same way as pharmacy schools have done for years. You have to keep an open mind, ask EVERYONE, including people who failed to get a job, then analyze under the microscope why they didn't get a job. You can't just pat yourself on the back and say, look at them, they all got jobs, so I must have one lined up when I finish that program. This is the mentality schools are trying to lure you into, the same prepharm mentality.
 
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Jbrl said:
Your goals are respectable; I would just encourage you to be more data driven and deliberate in your approach.

Ideally you want a degree to synergize with your PharmD unless you want to leave healthcare entirely. That’s for a few reasons: 1) less of a leap, more in your wheelhouse 2) more opportunities to be seen as an integrative expert 3) stronger and more seamless personal narrative

E.g., MSCS, MSDS, MSF, MPH, MBA. Each one of these can lead to positions across the spectrum of healthcare and its adjacencies, such as:
MSF for Equity Research at Cowen
MBA for Marketing at BMS
MPH for Program Manager at UnitedHealthcare
MSDS for Analytics at Flatiron Health
MSCS for Product Manager at Illumina
Click to expand...
I think you forgot stats, biostats and operations research. But yeah, all of them share a quant focus, and these degrees are not mutually exclusive and can still lead to the same career when the skill set and experience align. I know several MSCS guys became quantitative equity research analysts at two sigma and data scientists at McKesson.
 
harvoni_rituxan said:
This guy is studying for CISSP exam, so he has at least 4 years of relevant work experience in cyberdefense roles, minimum. He "worked with a team to present to the NATO Cooperate Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence on the technical and policy dimensions of the attribution of cyber attacks.", so he also likely has security clearance, possibly along with a military background. He's definitely NOT an entry level. He is a seasoned veteran. He said you are not entry level, do you seriously believe that? Take me as an example, I can work at G for 5 years, then go back to school for a part-time executive MBA, after I get that MBA and secure a director role at another company after 7 years of industry experience, should I encourage everyone including fresh PharmD grads to enroll in the hypothetical MBA program, cuz I "have turned down several offers", and "almost everyone graduating in my program", who are at least 5 years into their career, has a job offer?

At best, he's just ONE data point. Just like one of my friend who got an industry fellowship at Sanofi Genzyme this year, she can tell everyone the PharmD degree has effectively helped launch her career, and all her friends have either got a fellowship or a job directly after pharmacy school. Does what she said mean a PharmD at my school is good investment? Hell no, I am regretting it. Whatever my friend and that cybersecurity guy said were both clearly coming from a survivor bias angle.

By all means, I don't want to discourage you in your pursuit of another degree. After all, I am doing the same. But you need to research a lot more on whatever career track you are about to embark, at least not just trust whatever the program website says and a few of their successful graduates said. It's part of their marketing campaign to recruit students, in very same way as pharmacy schools have done for years. You have to keep an open mind, ask EVERYONE, including people who failed to get a job, then analyze under the microscope why they didn't get a job. You can't just pat yourself on the back and say, look at them, they all got jobs, so I must have one lined up when I finish that program. This is the mentality schools are trying to lure you into, the same prepharm mentality.
Click to expand...

So what about all the other graduates of the cybersecurity MS program who apparently did find jobs at graduation? If I research the school's post-graduate job placement claim further and it turns out that graduates of the program really are getting jobs in the cybersecurity industry, then what? The thing is, I just need to see more concrete proof that it actually isn't possible for someone to obtain a cybersecurity position as an entry-level candidate. I understand that in your previous post, you found the school's 90% job placement claim to be incredulous, but what if graduates of the program really are able to find jobs because the program actually does have a solid reputation?

And either way, I might not have any choice in the matter if I want to pursue a tech industry profession, as these two cybersecurity programs are the only CS-related programs that are structured (especially in terms of prerequisite requirements) in such a way that it is actually financially feasible for me to attend them. Keep in mind what I said in one of my previous posts about how I'd have to spend several thousand dollars taking prerequisite courses before I'd even be eligible to apply to the CS programs (the only one that doesn't require prereqs is the MCIT, which I was rejected by), which just isn't really feasible for me to do right now.

In a worst-case scenario, I'll leverage the coursework credentials I obtain in the cybersecurity MS to apply to CS programs if I absolutely cannot find a cybersecurity job, since the cybersecurity program's curriculum itself contains a couple bootcamp-style prep courses designed to give students a coding background.

Also, if you absolutely refuse to acknowledge that someone who doesn't have an extensive tech industry background can obtain a cybersecurity position, then how on earth do you explain the fact that graduates of this bootcamp program are finding jobs after completing the program?:

www.evolvesecurity.com

I've researched the program and can't find any reports on it being a scam or on its graduates not being able to find jobs, so what's the deal? Is it simply the case that every single person who has gotten a job after completing a cybersecurity MS or bootcamp is someone with an extensive tech background?
 
Jbrl said:
Your goals are respectable; I would just encourage you to be more data driven and deliberate in your approach.

Ideally you want a degree to synergize with your PharmD unless you want to leave healthcare entirely. That’s for a few reasons: 1) less of a leap, more in your wheelhouse 2) more opportunities to be seen as an integrative expert 3) stronger and more seamless personal narrative

E.g., MSCS, MSDS, MSF, MPH, MBA. Each one of these can lead to positions across the spectrum of healthcare and its adjacencies, such as:
MSF for Equity Research at Cowen
MBA for Marketing at BMS
MPH for Program Manager at UnitedHealthcare
MSDS for Analytics at Flatiron Health
MSCS for Product Manager at Illumina
Click to expand...

The thing is, by considering the cybersecurity MS programs, I thought I *was* being data-driven since the data literally points to cybersecurity (as well as other tech fields) having the absolute strongest job markets of almost any professions.

My intention isn't to leave healthcare entirely, but at the same time, I would be willing to do it if I was presented with an alternative career path that costs very little time and money to pursue and which prepares me to enter a profession with a really solid job market. What's surprising is that almost all of the pharmacist-turned-CS professionals I've gotten in touch with have left pharmacy/healthcare behind entirely and have pursued careers that are exclusively in the tech sector (I.e., not working for pharmaceutical companies, biotech companies, etc.), so if the most promising alternative career paths unavoidably involve abandoning pharmacy/healthcare altogether, I'd be willing to make that leap.

BTW, so pursuing an MBA would be a good plan? The reason I ask is because someone else was telling me that completing an MBA program as a new grad pharmacist without already having an established career at a pharma company would be a bad idea because of the importance of networking/connections when it comes to completing an MBA, so that's why I'm curious.
 
Hedgehog32 said:
So what about all the other graduates of the cybersecurity MS program who apparently did find jobs at graduation? If I research the school's post-graduate job placement claim further and it turns out that graduates of the program really are getting jobs in the cybersecurity industry, then what? The thing is, I just need to see more concrete proof that it actually isn't possible for someone to obtain a cybersecurity position as an entry-level candidate. I understand that in your previous post, you found the school's 90% job placement claim to be incredulous, but what if graduates of the program really are able to find jobs because the program actually does have a solid reputation?

And either way, I might not have any choice in the matter if I want to pursue a tech industry profession, as these two cybersecurity programs are the only CS-related programs that are structured (especially in terms of prerequisite requirements) in such a way that it is actually financially feasible for me to attend them. Keep in mind what I said in one of my previous posts about how I'd have to spend several thousand dollars taking prerequisite courses before I'd even be eligible to apply to the CS programs (the only one that doesn't require prereqs is the MCIT, which I was rejected by), which just isn't really feasible for me to do right now.

In a worst-case scenario, I'll leverage the coursework credentials I obtain in the cybersecurity MS to apply to CS programs if I absolutely cannot find a cybersecurity job, since the cybersecurity program's curriculum itself contains a couple bootcamp-style prep courses designed to give students a coding background.

Also, if you absolutely refuse to acknowledge that someone who doesn't have an extensive tech industry background can obtain a cybersecurity position, then how on earth do you explain the fact that graduates of this bootcamp program are finding jobs after completing the program?:

www.evolvesecurity.com

I've researched the program and can't find any reports on it being a scam or on its graduates not being able to find jobs, so what's the deal? Is it simply the case that every single person who has gotten a job after completing a cybersecurity MS or bootcamp is someone with an extensive tech background?
Click to expand...
I don't believe most of stats reported by bootcamps, just as I am very suspicious about the job placement rate of the program you are interested in. I know people who have done bootcamps, and how they are doing right now. It's too far from the reality. Some bootcamps are reporting numbers back in 2016 and 2018 if not 2013 and 2014 when jobs were abundant everywhere. Time have changed, but if you already believe 100% what they are trying to sell, then I guess you can go ahead and get started with it.

I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to go and look at actual job postings for cybersecurity jobs. They will tell you, better than anybody else, how much experience and what kind of skills they want from you.
 
harvoni_rituxan said:
I don't believe most of stats reported by bootcamps, just as I am very suspicious about the job placement rate of the program you are interested in. I know people who have done bootcamps, and how they are doing right now. It's too far from the reality. Some bootcamps are reporting numbers back in 2016 and 2018 if not 2013 and 2014 when jobs were abundant everywhere. Time have changed, but if you already believe 100% what they are trying to sell, then I guess you can go ahead and get started with it.

I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to go and look at actual job postings for cybersecurity jobs. They will tell you, better than anybody else, how much experience and what kind of skills they want from you.
Click to expand...

Guess I'll just have to find out the hard way and be willing to consider the coursework as a strategy to leverage an acceptance into a CS program upon graduation.

BTW, there is an organization that holds bootcamp programs accountable by requiring them to report their post-grad tech industry placement stats in order for them to be granted some sort of status (I forget what it's called), and I'd be inclined to point out that nearly all of the bootcamp programs that have obtained the status are reporting 70-80% CS-specific job placement rates for their most recent graduate cohorts, but I won't bother since I'm assuming you wouldn't believe the numbers anyways.

BTW, you said in one of your previous posts that most people would have to get a degree in CS to qualify for the job you were recently offered, but you don't appear to have one. So how were you able to pull it off? Are you what most people would consider to be the stereotypical self-taught CS genius who doesn't need the formal qualification that apparently everyone else has to have?
 
Hedgehog32 said:
Guess I'll just have to find out the hard way and be willing to consider the coursework as a strategy to leverage an acceptance into a CS program upon graduation.

BTW, there is an organization that holds bootcamp programs accountable by requiring them to report their post-grad tech industry placement stats in order for them to be granted some sort of status (I forget what it's called), and I'd be inclined to point out that nearly all of the bootcamp programs that have obtained the status are reporting 70-80% CS-specific job placement rates for their most recent graduate cohorts, but I won't bother since I'm assuming you wouldn't believe the numbers anyways.

BTW, you said in one of your previous posts that most people would have to get a degree in CS to qualify for the job you were recently offered, but you don't appear to have one. So how were you able to pull it off? Are you what most people would consider to be the stereotypical self-taught CS genius who doesn't need the formal qualification that apparently everyone else has to have?
Click to expand...
According national pharmacy organizations, you name it, ACPE and ASHP, there are abundant jobs for pharmacists and future is so bright. I don't know what made you believe bootcamp organization but not pharmacy organizations.

I got my job cuz I had internships there and research experience with a well-known faculty in this field, and I am working towards a CS degree. They might hire a CS grad over me, but they basically have to train that person from ground up to do the modeling and simulation in the pharma context, or they can also hire a PhD grad who have very limited experience with the industrial software we are using and very limited coding capability, and then spend several months if not a year to groom the candidate for the role, or they can hire a PhD guy with years of industrial experience, then they don't have to do the training, but they will have to pay that guy 2X of my salary.
 
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Hedgehog32 said:
I'd be inclined to point out that nearly all of the bootcamp programs that have obtained the status are reporting 70-80% CS-specific job placement rates for their most recent graduate cohorts
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I just checked my pharmacy school's advertised placement rate. They boast 96% gestate placement rate, which is hard to believe. Especially considering that, at best, only 92% of my class is licensed.

Sent from my HD1925 using SDN mobile
 
WorthlessOxygen said:
For what it's worth, I just checked my pharmacy school's advertised placement rate. They boast 96% gestate placement rate, which is hard to believe. Especially considering that, at best, only 92% of my class is licensed.

Sent from my HD1925 using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Maybe they're including graduates who obtained non-pharmacy jobs?
 
Hedgehog32 said:
Maybe they're including graduates who obtained non-pharmacy jobs?
Click to expand...
there are so many ways to skew the statistics. they can send out a survey with a loaded questionnaire, or they can only survey those they think are the strong candidates and most likely to get a job & and only those who actually got a job are most likely to respond, and lastly there are just so many ways to tweak the definition of the terms, ie, how you define "placement" (they can put students in a special project, paid or unpaid, can call that a placement), and how you define "employed" (same way as placement), and how you define "in a position associated with their degree" (many law schools, even top tier ones like UPenn, hire their unemployed JDs up to 6 months as law clerks postgrad to beef up this number). In one way or another, they can manipulate the data to meet whatever target they prefer.
 
wucool33 said:
wait... why was he banned? What did he do?
Click to expand...
Who knows? My guess is these quotes though:

"IF I work in retail and gets paid anywhere less than $40/hr, I would steal hundreds of non-narcotic pills per day & sell them on black market to make up for it lol."

"it is actually much easier than you think, 100 pills of metformin today, then 100 pills of rosuvastatin tomorrow. go for the fast movers."

Sent from my HD1925 using SDN mobile
 
Rybko90 said:
In any case, good for him for diversifying himself and finding a way out of this market and field. I applaud him if his story is true.
Click to expand...

If his story legitimately was true, I legitimately am happy for him. Seemed like he had a great career path drawn out for himself. However, he definitely seemed like the type to burn all his bridges and wouldn't take advise from anyone. His career won't go far with those characteristics, again assuming anything he said was true.
 
TateThePharmacist said:
If his story legitimately was true, I legitimately am happy for him. Seemed like he had a great career path drawn out for himself. However, he definitely seemed like the type to burn all his bridges and wouldn't take advise from anyone. His career won't go far with those characteristics, again assuming anything he said was true.
Click to expand...

He or she is whining about getting a freaking $200 license when they’ll be making so much more than that as an RPH
 
I just got a recruiter interviewed me for a job at Gilead and I wanted to contact harvoni_rituxan and found out s/he's banned. Damn!
 
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