Fresh grad: got a job in big pharma, plus working towards another degree, should i bother getting licensed as a pharmacist at all??

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Yup definitely no standardization. Salary is an indicator of experience but not necessarily an end all be all. For those that are negotiating, some useful info:

Location matters - A big company out in LA can afford to pay **** because there's no competition out there for talent. A lot of companies (e.g. G) pay a SF premium (but it doesn't begin to cover the CoL of living the Bay Area). Boston salaries are crazy because you can switch companies 20x by walking across the street a few times

How much you jump around matters - even if you're a star performer, you won't get more than 4-5%/yr whereas every jump you make, you should be getting ~20%+

Title is tied to some non-negotiable in terms of comp, for example:
every [title] gets a x% target payout on their bonus; e.g. managers are eligible for 15% target bonus
[x%] of [title] gets [y] amount of long-term incentives; e.g. 33% of managers get $6.5k/yr in equity that vest over 4 years

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Yup definitely no standardization. Salary is an indicator of experience but not necessarily an end all be all. For those that are negotiating, some useful info:

Location matters - A big company out in LA can afford to pay **** because there's no competition out there for talent. A lot of companies (e.g. G) pay a SF premium (but it doesn't begin to cover the CoL of living the Bay Area). Boston salaries are crazy because you can switch companies 20x by walking across the street a few times

How much you jump around matters - even if you're a star performer, you won't get more than 4-5%/yr whereas every jump you make, you should be getting ~20%+

Title is tied to some non-negotiable in terms of comp, for example:
every [title] gets a x% target payout on their bonus; e.g. managers are eligible for 15% target bonus
[x%] of [title] gets [y] amount of long-term incentives; e.g. 33% of managers get $6.5k/yr in equity that vest over 4 years
never been to Boston, but do they really pay that much? maybe i should consider relocation soon lol.
 
never been to Boston, but do they really pay that much? maybe i should consider relocation soon lol.

I think most PharmDs that enter the industry can reasonably expect to reach around Associate Director level, at a minimum. You can get some idea of AD compensation here: Salary range for Associate Director / Director salary at a biotech/Pharma company? | Fishbowl
That range actually seems slightly lower than what's typical, but it covers the bulk of ADs. Someone mentioned that an AD offer in Boston was about 190k base, 20% bonus, 25k sign-on (Offer for AD at Pharma in Boston Area, Base-190k, Bonus- 20%, Stock- 25%, Sign on- 25k, YOE- 15yrs. Is this a good offer? How much more can I ask for on base without being considered greedy? | Fishbowl). While bonus% is typical at that level, the base indicates a higher range than the NYC metro area. Overall, that individual has had a pretty good salary progression at 15 years of experience.
 
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I would agree that medical affairs type roles are the easiest: medical communications, medical information, etc. The PharmD is most applicable here and there is credibility around what a PharmD can bring to the table given its a well traveled path and there are so many PharmD's in leadership positions.

You don't need to live there, but it certainly makes things easier. Sometimes they need to hire someone fast (e.g. contract roles) and don't want to wait for you to pack up your stuff, move, get settled in, and then start your job. Other times, they can afford to take their time - completely depends.

I did a few job searches for medical affairs and medical communications jobs, and I noticed that the vast majority of results were for medical writer and various director-level positions. Having said that, do you know if the majority of new graduates (non-fellowship-trained) break into industry by taking jobs as medical writers? Or are there other positions that I just don't know the names of?
 
I did a few job searches for medical affairs and medical communications jobs, and I noticed that the vast majority of results were for medical writer and various director-level positions. Having said that, do you know if the majority of new graduates (non-fellowship-trained) break into industry by taking jobs as medical writers? Or are there other positions that I just don't know the names of?

Majority of new graduates (non-fellowship) probably break in through medical information roles. It's the most "natural" transition for a pharmacist who's been trained to "dispense" scientific information. There is a learning curve as with all industry jobs, but considerably less than other functions (for PharmDs). As mentioned before, titles are not standardized in any way - it's really each company just calling it whatever they feel like calling it with the hopes of drawing recruitment. Some common titles are "Medical Information Associate", "Drug Information Associate", "Medical Information Specialist", "Medical Communications Specialist", "Scientific Communications", "Medical Information Analyst", "Medical Information Manager", etc. Hopefully you get the idea - try playing switch-a-around with "Drug" and "Medical", "Information" and "Communications", "Associate" with "Specialist" and sometimes even "Manager" is used - some companies use that to infer you're managing information, not people. Some break in through drug safety. Again, you'll see a a couple title variations for essentially the same entry-level job.

Increasingly, a lot of these "break into" jobs can be found not at the pharma itself, but at vendor companies that pharma outsources to (i.e. CRO).
 
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@wazoodog lol you won't see those bonus or equity targets until director in CA / NJ

In NJ, I can say for sure a bonus of 20% is realistic for AD. Equity and base salary not so.... at least from what I've seen. Of course theres other things not accounted for like long term incentive (that you mentioned).
 
At a certain point, somewhere around 170k+, I feel like a lot of people cease to chase higher salary for salary sake. If it's about money, many seem to look for another income stream that more tax advantageous.

Maybe it has to do do with being older at that point in time (with family time demands). If they continue to be ambitious I think it's for other reasons that compensation. That's just my obsrvation.
 
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How do you get a job in industry so easily? Did you do a fellowship or have prior experience before pharmacy school?
 
How do you get a job in industry so easily? Did you do a fellowship or have prior experience before pharmacy school?
No, I didn't do a fellowship, and I am never a fan of it. I am a 2020 PharmD fresh grad. My research experience during pharm school (my director knows my research supervisor. It is a niche field) and current enrollment in the cs program were more than sufficient to land me this job, among several other industry job offers. My director was so concerned with me not staying long and promised me to help me grow if I stay. I mean, nobody is blind, and Verily Life Sciences is within 10 min drive.

I am getting harassed on a daily basis by recruiters. The annoying thing is, when you don't have a job, nobody reaches out to you, but when you have a decent job, those recruiters come at you and bombard you with inquiries.
 
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No, I didn't do a fellowship, and I am never a fan of it. I am a 2020 PharmD fresh grad. My research experience during pharm school (my director knows my research supervisor. It is a niche field) and current enrollment in the cs program were more than sufficient to land me this job, among several other industry job offers. My director was so concerned with me not staying long and promised me to help me grow if I stay. I mean, nobody is blind, and Verily Life Sciences is within 10 min drive.

I am getting harassed on a daily basis by recruiters. The annoying thing is, when you don't have a job, nobody reaches out to you, but when you have a decent job, those recruiters come at you and bombard you with inquiries.

yikes :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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Yes, I would go ahead and just get licensed. It is never going to be easier than right now. The answer varies substantially depending on your exact position and the company (Gilead based on your username). Pharma can also be a revolving door, I have seen some people start off as MSLs and then end up needing to use their pharmacy license years down the line.
 
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There was director of HEOR from novartis that came to talk to you about the fellowship they have and the person who was qualified for the job was essentially someone who has coding experience. I have a minor in bioinformatics, coding to me, has been interesting. It is very interesting with the things you can do with code. During my undergraduate, I knew a couple of people who made a career out of their coding skills. I think knowing how to code, will get you far in the industry but it seems to me, what's the reason for a PharmD then? All I remember is that I had the pleasure of interning at Novartis in 2014, and all the scientist told me before Novartis cut so many jobs is that PharmD is the way to go, especially in fields liek CRO, since they are always looking for PharmD's. I ended up at Merck and regret leaving my position since I did coding and was able to do work I was proud of.

With that being said you should be impressed you got an industry job. It is not for everyone. Unless you can deal with corporate america then you will do well. It is not making the money. Even as a graduate student, I have experience over my classmates and I do not expect to get a raise in my salary since I will be starting at the bottom again. I think with you, ask yourself what are your goals getting your Masters? I think you should get your license and MJE even if you go into industry. I know I will end up with a good job in the future but I still want to have my clinical knowledge. So I will want to attain my license, I think it's harder to get license after you graduate. One of my friends, its been 1 year since he graduated and he hasn't passed his NAPLEX yet, he passed his MJE but he is focused on working on all these hours that he does not have time. You have to prepare for this exam. I would also recommend taking the exam right after you graduate since you are fresh out of school, and with APPEs preparing you for the NAPLEX its a perfect time to take it. I know a lot of my friends that are in fellowship and at least you do not have to go down this route.

For industry: I know the hot fields that will hire you is HEOR, Medical affairs(medical writting is needed), Pharmcoviligance, Regulatory affairs, MLS. I can't speak for the other areas since I haven't heard where PharmD's are needed but I like to keep in contact with my contacts I had the pleasure of meeting.
 
There was director of HEOR from novartis that came to talk to you about the fellowship they have and the person who was qualified for the job was essentially someone who has coding experience. I have a minor in bioinformatics, coding to me, has been interesting. It is very interesting with the things you can do with code. During my undergraduate, I knew a couple of people who made a career out of their coding skills. I think knowing how to code, will get you far in the industry but it seems to me, what's the reason for a PharmD then? All I remember is that I had the pleasure of interning at Novartis in 2014, and all the scientist told me before Novartis cut so many jobs is that PharmD is the way to go, especially in fields liek CRO, since they are always looking for PharmD's. I ended up at Merck and regret leaving my position since I did coding and was able to do work I was proud of.

With that being said you should be impressed you got an industry job. It is not for everyone. Unless you can deal with corporate america then you will do well. It is not making the money. Even as a graduate student, I have experience over my classmates and I do not expect to get a raise in my salary since I will be starting at the bottom again. I think with you, ask yourself what are your goals getting your Masters? I think you should get your license and MJE even if you go into industry. I know I will end up with a good job in the future but I still want to have my clinical knowledge. So I will want to attain my license, I think it's harder to get license after you graduate. One of my friends, its been 1 year since he graduated and he hasn't passed his NAPLEX yet, he passed his MJE but he is focused on working on all these hours that he does not have time. You have to prepare for this exam. I would also recommend taking the exam right after you graduate since you are fresh out of school, and with APPEs preparing you for the NAPLEX its a perfect time to take it. I know a lot of my friends that are in fellowship and at least you do not have to go down this route.

For industry: I know the hot fields that will hire you is HEOR, Medical affairs(medical writting is needed), Pharmcoviligance, Regulatory affairs, MLS. I can't speak for the other areas since I haven't heard where PharmD's are needed but I like to keep in contact with my contacts I had the pleasure of meeting.
I will seriously think about whether I should get licensed. Much thanks! I always cram in school, so I think cramming for an exam like naplex is not really an issue for me at all, especially for something I have learned in the past. 2 weeks is more than sufficient for the preparation at any given time.

I am technically in clinical development, but I will work with modeling and simulation analysts, scientific researchers and statistical scientists, plus close external collaboration with those in clinical trials and sometimes with those in preclinical studies. My department is constantly hiring people with a background in stats, math and engineering then basically train them on the job. I got this job cuz I know both clinical trials and cs, along with a good understanding of stats. I am not in a department that can be categorized into any of those you mentioned that hire PharmDs the most. I kinda went the nontraditional path, and my coworkers have never worked with a PharmD prior, only PhDs. During my interview, I had to explain what a PharmD is to one of my scientist interviewer.

I am doing the CS masters degree to kinda future proof myself. With a combination of PharmD for clinical and CS for quant, I can do so much more and countless opportunities within my department, another department in the company or rival company, and Apple/Google/Amazon, which are so eager to get a slice of the healthcare market. Since my company pays for it, and my managers are encouraging as well since it really helps with my job and the department initiative, why not? In the long run tho, I can always use external opportunities at Apple/Google/Amazon as leverage to help me get pay raise. It's always nice to have many competitors in close proximity actively poaching talent from the company you work for. They are the essential driving force for your market value.
 
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Why wouldn't you get licensed? Nothing is guaranteed. If you lose whatever jobs you are expecting, your license is the only thing that allows you to work and practice as a pharmacist. It is absolutely foolish and irresponsible to not get licensed in at least 1 state. You would be a ***** not to do it.
 
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Why wouldn't you get licensed? Nothing is guaranteed. If you lose whatever jobs you are expecting, your license is the only thing that allows you to work and practice as a pharmacist. It is absolutely foolish and irresponsible to not get licensed in at least 1 state. You would be a ***** not to do it.

Agree. The only reason I can think of to even consider not getting licensed, is if the OP bribed/cheated their way through pharmacy school and knows they would probably flunk the NAPLEX. Even then, OP would be better off cramming and just passing it.
 
While I advocate getting licensed, if I did lose whatever job I'm in I'm not sure how easy it would be for me to get a job in retail again. Realistically, I would just wait it out until I get another pharma job - but hypothetically speaking, if retail was truly the #1 option I was considering in this situation, I have to ask the question...

I have like 2 years of retail experience from mid 2000s, right before pharmacists were able to give immunizations. So I actually don't even that experience or certification. I think I was a pretty competent and efficient pharmacist at the time, but the computer system looked like DOS with no graphics - I'm sure it's not used anymore. Don't even ask me about robots. I live in an area that's thoroughly saturated with pharmacists - it's hard to even find per diem positions. I know this because I went into a 3 letter chain to get a scrip filled and asked the pharmacists if any prn hours were available - they laughed, said no, then proceeded to ask me to help them get out of retail and into industry. It seems like at this point, getting a retail job would be far harder for me to obtain than finding another industry job. Would any of you retail pharmacists consider hiring someone like this? I only see it happening if I first go get certified in immunizations then ask a friend who owns an independent if they can give me a few hours.

Despite all this, I'd still say get your license. It still presents at least 1 more feasible option down the line if you need to have that credential. Maybe I've been lucky that I never really had to resort to the back-up option during the last 15 years, but maybe a few chips fell my way along the years. For anyone starting out, I think it's worth considering. And you never know, one day in the future if my investments have performed well enough I hope to retire a couple years early and just enjoy picking up a few hours per month at a friend's independent.
 
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Why wouldn't you get licensed? Nothing is guaranteed. If you lose whatever jobs you are expecting, your license is the only thing that allows you to work and practice as a pharmacist. It is absolutely foolish and irresponsible to not get licensed in at least 1 state. You would be a ***** not to do it.
Take the current situation as an example, which is my major reservation against getting licensed. The pharmacist job market is taking a big hit right now, and it is a cross-spectrum hit. It doesn't matter it's retail or hospital, even experienced hospital "unicorn" pharmacists are getting hours cut and furloughed. But I got a job amid the current chaos. So, it honestly makes me feel that the license really doesn't provide any peace of mind at all. If it does, then why is it possible that their hours are getting cut or furloughed yet I can somehow always get retail shift when I need it, which is the only foreseeable benefit the license can provide and serve as my backup? Please enlighten me on this as you called me foolish, irresponsible and a *****. I honestly can't see the rationale here.
 
Agree. The only reason I can think of to even consider not getting licensed, is if the OP bribed/cheated their way through pharmacy school and knows they would probably flunk the NAPLEX. Even then, OP would be better off cramming and just passing it.
Haha, okay, let's assume I am a total idiot and just somehow cheated my entire 4 years to graduation. Based on that logic, I think it is probably safe to assume I would absolutely suck as a retail pharmacist. So if that's the case, what's my probability of landing retail shifts in a super saturated area where i am currently at? If there is no shift, what other benefit can the license provide, other than collecting dust on the wall?
 
While I advocate getting licensed, if I did lose whatever job I'm in I'm not sure how easy it would be for me to get a job in retail again. Realistically, I would just wait it out until I get another pharma job - but hypothetically speaking, if retail was truly the #1 option I was considering in this situation, I have to ask the question...

I have like 2 years of retail experience from mid 2000s, right before pharmacists were able to give immunizations. So I actually don't even that experience or certification. I think I was a pretty competent and efficient pharmacist at the time, but the computer system looked like DOS with no graphics - I'm sure it's not used anymore. Don't even ask me about robots. I live in an area that's thoroughly saturated with pharmacists - it's hard to even find per diem positions. I know this because I went into a 3 letter chain to get a scrip filled and asked the pharmacists if any prn hours were available - they laughed, said no, then proceeded to ask me to help them get out of retail and into industry. It seems like at this point, getting a retail job would be far harder for me to obtain than finding another industry job. Would any of you retail pharmacists consider hiring someone like this? I only see it happening if I first go get certified in immunizations then ask a friend who owns an independent if they can give me a few hours.

Despite all this, I'd still say get your license. It still presents at least 1 more feasible option down the line if you need to have that credential. Maybe I've been lucky that I never really had to resort to the back-up option during the last 15 years, but maybe a few chips fell my way along the years. For anyone starting out, I think it's worth considering. And you never know, one day in the future if my investments have performed well enough I hope to retire a couple years early and just enjoy picking up a few hours per month at a friend's independent.
What you said is literally what I have been thinking so far. My skill set and experience would fit a lot better elsewhere than retail or hospital, to the point that I believe I can get jobs much easier in pharma or health tech when the rainy day comes. Like, even if I get licensed now and want to take a weekend shift, it would be such an uphill battle to get one in my area. I just can't compete with hundreds of experienced pharmacists who spent their entire career in retail gunning for the same job.
 
I will seriously think about whether I should get licensed. Much thanks! I always cram in school, so I think cramming for an exam like naplex is not really an issue for me at all, especially for something I have learned in the past. 2 weeks is more than sufficient for the preparation at any given time.

I am technically in clinical development, but I will work with modeling and simulation analysts, scientific researchers and statistical scientists, plus close external collaboration with those in clinical trials and sometimes with those in preclinical studies. My department is constantly hiring people with a background in stats, math and engineering then basically train them on the job. I got this job cuz I know both clinical trials and cs, along with a good understanding of stats. I am not in a department that can be categorized into any of those you mentioned that hire PharmDs the most. I kinda went the nontraditional path, and my coworkers have never worked with a PharmD prior, only PhDs. During my interview, I had to explain what a PharmD is to one of my scientist interviewer.

I am doing the CS masters degree to kinda future proof myself. With a combination of PharmD for clinical and CS for quant, I can do so much more and countless opportunities within my department, another department in the company or rival company, and Apple/Google/Amazon, which are so eager to get a slice of the healthcare market. Since my company pays for it, and my managers are encouraging as well since it really helps with my job and the department initiative, why not? In the long run tho, I can always use external opportunities at Apple/Google/Amazon as leverage to help me get pay raise. It's always nice to have many competitors in close proximity actively poaching talent from the company you work for. They are the essential driving force for your market value.

That's true but I never crammed in University for some reason. I study to learn so I think in time you will remember everything. I know alot of my pharmacist who are my friends who missed it by 2 points. It's sucks. Especially since the NAPLEX keeps changing. Hoping for this year everyone passes :) damn you are confident. If you think you can do it in 2 weeks bravo to you. I need like 3 months LOL

That is super cool. Do you know what department that is under? I am sure all the clinical research folks are probably coming to your department. I heard the statistician is your favorite person in working in MA(its because one of my medical writing professor all pushed us to go into this route). If you don't mind me asking did you have CS exposure to pharmacy school? Google wants to get into the healthcare market and I am sure if apple is in the mix it will make things competitive and very interesting. Having a MS in CS in a benefit especially if your company is paying. A lot of people in my program got master's degree and MBA with no job experience. I didn't bother getting a master's since I thought it was a waste of time in the ones my school was offering. I totally agree with you there. It's good to be skilled especially with the way healthcare is moving.

If you don't mind me asking what kind of experience did you have before pharmacy school & during pharmacy school?
 
Take the current situation as an example, which is my major reservation against getting licensed. The pharmacist job market is taking a big hit right now, and it is a cross-spectrum hit. It doesn't matter it's retail or hospital, even experienced hospital "unicorn" pharmacists are getting hours cut and furloughed. But I got a job amid the current chaos. So, it honestly makes me feel that the license really doesn't provide any peace of mind at all. If it does, then why is it possible that their hours are getting cut or furloughed yet I can somehow always get retail shift when I need it, which is the only foreseeable benefit the license can provide and serve as my backup? Please enlighten me on this as you called me foolish, irresponsible and a *****. I honestly can't see the rationale here.

I worked in hospital for a year so I like to comment on this and say there aren't much jobs for hospital pharmacy unless you do a residency and take a salary cut & even then, you still aren't guaranteed a job once you are finished(especially since its better to do 2 years). Hospitals are using "residents" so they don't have to hire a pier diem or full time pharmacist. Like why not--from a business perspective it's pretty smart but they will keep doing this cycle. The ONLY way to get into hospital is to know someone. I was guaranteed a job in my specialty pharmacy but it's not for everyone. So it just shows you connections will get you far in pharmacy. My friends who work at the specialty don't even like it. I was doing some of their job working as a chemist there. With that being said, I see so many opportunities for you to get your license. I can name so much but at the end it's up to you. Why are you so adamant in not getting there?
 
That's true but I never crammed in University for some reason. I study to learn so I think in time you will remember everything. I know alot of my pharmacist who are my friends who missed it by 2 points. It's sucks. Especially since the NAPLEX keeps changing. Hoping for this year everyone passes :) damn you are confident. If you think you can do it in 2 weeks bravo to you. I need like 3 months LOL

That is super cool. Do you know what department that is under? I am sure all the clinical research folks are probably coming to your department. I heard the statistician is your favorite person in working in MA(its because one of my medical writing professor all pushed us to go into this route). If you don't mind me asking did you have CS exposure to pharmacy school? Google wants to get into the healthcare market and I am sure if apple is in the mix it will make things competitive and very interesting. Having a MS in CS in a benefit especially if your company is paying. A lot of people in my program got master's degree and MBA with no job experience. I didn't bother getting a master's since I thought it was a waste of time in the ones my school was offering. I totally agree with you there. It's good to be skilled especially with the way healthcare is moving.

If you don't mind me asking what kind of experience did you have before pharmacy school & during pharmacy school?
i had cs exposure coming in pharmacy school, but not much. i basically sharpened my coding skills from ground up ever since i realized pharmacy job outcome is not so bright after year 1. it was a long and grueling journey, with so many naysayers in my class waiting to see me fail. yet to their disappointment, i worked super hard for it, and now here i am. it's their turn to face the uphill battle of finding a pharmacist job now lol.

i don't have too much work experience prior to pharmacy school, but i did 2 summer industry internships and 3+ years of in vitro, in vivo and in silico research with a well known faculty member in systems biology, who had recent PhD students got hired at G and FDA directly after graduation. i know there is some weird people on this forum who will keep bashing others for "pushing" cs, it is getting somewhat comical now. but the reality is, if you can code well, have something to show like an interesting project or github or enrolled in a cs degree program, it is really not too hard to land a coveted pharma internships, especially for HEOR, supply chain, engineering, and IT. The reason for pharmacy students and other pharmacists thinking those opportunities are so hard to come by is that if you read a typical pharmacy student's resume or linkedin, it's all the same. Like i can hardly differentiate one person from another by just looking at their experiences and knowledge. it's all the same identical stuff like a template for every pharmacy student john doe.
 
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i had cs exposure coming in pharmacy school, but not much. i basically sharpened my coding skills from ground up ever since i realized pharmacy job outcome is not so bright after year 1. it was a long and grueling journey, with so many naysayers in my class waiting to see me fail. yet to their disappointment, i worked super hard for it, and now here i am. it's their turn to face the uphill battle of finding a pharmacist job now lol.

i don't have too much work experience prior to pharmacy school, but i did 2 summer industry internships and 3+ years of in vitro, in vivo and in silico research with a well known faculty member in systems biology, who had recent PhD students got hired at G and FDA directly after graduation. i know there is some weird people on this forum who will keep bashing others for "pushing" cs, it is getting somewhat comical now. but the reality is, if you can code well, have something to show like an interesting project or github or enrolled in a cs degree program, it is really not too hard to land a coveted pharma internships, especially for HEOR, supply chain, engineering, and IT. The reason for pharmacy students and other pharmacists thinking those opportunities are so hard to come by is that if you read a typical pharmacy student's resume or linkedin, it's all the same. Like i can hardly differentiate one person from another by just looking at their experiences and knowledge. it's all the same identical stuff like a template for every pharmacy student john doe.

That is really inspirational. To have other skills that are much needed in this world and will make you marketable. Same! I just sharpen some skills since at Merck I realized that having coding experience will get you hired. Other pharmacy students are such haters who got stuck doing residency and fellowships--I am not trying to say residency and fellowships aren't great but it's the attitude pharmacy students have to each other. At least in my class everyone was competitive with each other and half of these students didn't have experience beside retail. It's the law of attraction. If you focus on on a goal and ignore all the haters then you will accomplish the very goal you set your mind too.

That is pretty good experience and good for you to put yourself out there to see what you like. That's for experience than half of my class has tbh. I noticed that--there are people on this forum who will just come at you because they don't know how you did it or feel frustrated. It's so much easier to sit behind a computer and just bash someone without knowing their journey. AMEN there, I agree with this. It is not hard in those fields. Your resume needs to be good and you have to be able to nail these interviews too. It takes so much time and dedication but it's worth it. I am graduating in 2021 and I am looking for jobs right now or to start the process.

I agree with you. All the linkedin profiles are just bland. Working at retail is nothing crazy. All these racist classmates of mines have the same LinkedIn and think the future is clinical. But in retail hospital is not looking great. It does not even have good job security. That is why they are not getting positions because you want to stand out. I was on the hiring side for my job and management never would call anyone back that had a basic resume.
 
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Too poor & too lazy i guess lol.

I agree the tests are very easy, but in today's economic climate, I doubt anyone would say spending money on nonessential stuff sounds like a good idea. It is easy on my part to just say, f* it, let me get this out of the way once and for all, but I am seriously debating the ROI of doing so. I have talked to several alumni in the region, and it seems like the local pharmacist job market is saturated to eyeballs. Yeah, it is THAT bad. I won't do a hospital residency (I just won't, even if they pay me 6 figure salary for one year), so the only real benefit left of getting licensed is taking per diem retail shifts, which can be very hard to come by. One of the alumni I reached out told me he once received 300+ applications for a job, while others have said their hours got cut and scared of getting furloughed if not let go. It is a very frustrating thing to think about.
It's a license not gold plated fruit. Hardly a nonessential item.
 
That is really inspirational. To have other skills that are much needed in this world and will make you marketable. Same! I just sharpen some skills since at Merck I realized that having coding experience will get you hired. Other pharmacy students are such haters who got stuck doing residency and fellowships--I am not trying to say residency and fellowships aren't great but it's the attitude pharmacy students have to each other. At least in my class everyone was competitive with each other and half of these students didn't have experience beside retail. It's the law of attraction. If you focus on on a goal and ignore all the haters then you will accomplish the very goal you set your mind too.

That is pretty good experience and good for you to put yourself out there to see what you like. That's for experience than half of my class has tbh. I noticed that--there are people on this forum who will just come at you because they don't know how you did it or feel frustrated. It's so much easier to sit behind a computer and just bash someone without knowing their journey. AMEN there, I agree with this. It is not hard in those fields. Your resume needs to be good and you have to be able to nail these interviews too. It takes so much time and dedication but it's worth it. I am graduating in 2021 and I am looking for jobs right now or to start the process.

I agree with you. All the linkedin profiles are just bland. Working at retail is nothing crazy. All these racist classmates of mines have the same LinkedIn and think the future is clinical. But in retail hospital is not looking great. It does not even have good job security. That is why they are not getting positions because you want to stand out. I was on the hiring side for my job and management never would call anyone back that had a basic resume.
Vast majority of my class had no idea what is waiting ahead of them even at this point tbh. They were the ones who called me a "traitor" to the profession and the whitecoat, and they really fought hard for the faculty and the profession they loved so much lol. I think that's Stockholm syndrome at its finest display. Now a few of them have reached out to me asking for referral. :rolleyes: The class president of 2019 didn't get matched anywhere, and he is still "exploring various opportunities" according to linkedin, and one of my close friends told me I am the first person she knows in our class to get a FT job. It's a real sad reality considering we already graduated, and nobody besides me had anything lined up. For those who matched for residency, if the job market doesn't recover next year, that's when the real pain comes......
 
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Vast majority of my class had no idea what is waiting ahead of them even at this point tbh. They were the ones who called me a "traitor" to the profession and the whitecoat, and they really fought hard for the faculty and the profession they loved so much lol. I think that's Stockholm syndrome at its finest display. Now a few of them have reached out to me asking for referral. :rolleyes: The class president of 2019 didn't get matched anywhere, and he is still "exploring various opportunities" according to linkedin, and one of my close friends told me I am the first person she knows in our class to get a FT job. It's a real sad reality considering we already graduated, and nobody besides me had anything lined up. For those who matched for residency, if the job market doesn't recover next year, that's when the real pain comes......

It's a similar situation with my classmates, actually; the only ones who have anything lined up in terms of post-grad opportunities are the folks who matched with residency programs and those who worked as interns for retail chains in middle-of-nowhere territories. Otherwise, everyone else is suspiciously quiet about what their post-grad status is.
 
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You called?

... Because it's obviously a better idea to force oneself to move to an undesirable area of the country and force themselves to work a job that would make them simply miserable, rather than spend a relatively insignificant amount of time and money pursuing an alternative career that is almost guaranteed to get them a decent-paying, lower-stress job that permits them the "privilege" of living within the geographical confines of what most people consider to be civilization?
 
Majority of new graduates (non-fellowship) probably break in through medical information roles. It's the most "natural" transition for a pharmacist who's been trained to "dispense" scientific information. There is a learning curve as with all industry jobs, but considerably less than other functions (for PharmDs). As mentioned before, titles are not standardized in any way - it's really each company just calling it whatever they feel like calling it with the hopes of drawing recruitment. Some common titles are "Medical Information Associate", "Drug Information Associate", "Medical Information Specialist", "Medical Communications Specialist", "Scientific Communications", "Medical Information Analyst", "Medical Information Manager", etc. Hopefully you get the idea - try playing switch-a-around with "Drug" and "Medical", "Information" and "Communications", "Associate" with "Specialist" and sometimes even "Manager" is used - some companies use that to infer you're managing information, not people. Some break in through drug safety. Again, you'll see a a couple title variations for essentially the same entry-level job.

Increasingly, a lot of these "break into" jobs can be found not at the pharma itself, but at vendor companies that pharma outsources to (i.e. CRO).

Thanks for the advice. So in general, would you say that if someone doesn't have prior intern or fellowship work experience at a pharma company, their best bet for breaking into med info is going to be through working for a contracting company (as opposed to getting hired for a FT position directly by a pharma company)?
 
Thanks for the advice. So in general, would you say that if someone doesn't have prior intern or fellowship work experience at a pharma company, their best bet for breaking into med info is going to be through working for a contracting company (as opposed to getting hired for a FT position directly by a pharma company)?
Now is a terrible time to get a job. The unemployment rate is just too high, and all entry level jobs face fierce competition, especially those with low entry barrier. The key is to ALWAYS start early. Goldman Sachs just warned the "official" jobless rate will peak at 25%, and the real jobless rate will peak at 35%. Now the "official" number is still at 15%. I trust any market forecasts from Goldman Sachs ever since they have correctly predicted several oil price downturns in the past. They were like fortune-tellers with pinpoint accuracy in that regard.

 
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Now is a terrible time to get a job. The unemployment rate is just too high, and all entry level jobs face fierce competition, especially those with low entry barrier. The key is to ALWAYS start early. Goldman Sachs just warned the "official" jobless rate will peak at 25%, and the real jobless rate will peak at 35%. Now the "official" number is still at 15%. I trust any market forecasts from Goldman Sachs ever since they have correctly predicted several oil price downturns in the past. They were like fortune-tellers with pinpoint accuracy in that regard.


Do you think temporary contracting jobs would be just as hard to get as permanent FT jobs?
 
Do you think temporary contracting jobs would be just as hard to get as permanent FT jobs?
They already are. Entry level jobs like clinical research assistant/coordinator/associates, clinical contract associates, regulatory affairs associates, and drug safety/pharmacovigilance associates are routinely receiving 200+ applications within a week on linkedin. As graduates soon realize retail and hospital jobs have dried up, more people are flocking to those areas and making competition unnecessarily fierce than ever. That being said, jobs like computational/systems biologists, informatics analysts, clinical pharmacologists, bioinformatics/pharmacometrics/pkpd, pbpk modeler/dmpk/modeling and simulation scientists jobs are still abundant, and it is not rare to see applicant numbers in very low double digits or single digit weeks even months after posting on linkedin.

There are definitely jobs out there, but so are skill gaps.
 
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They already are. Entry level jobs like clinical research assistant/coordinator/associates, clinical contract associates, regulatory affairs associates, and drug safety/pharmacovigilance associates are routinely receiving 200+ applications within a week on linkedin. As graduates soon realize retail and hospital jobs have dried up, more people are flocking to those areas and making competition unnecessarily fierce than ever. That being said, jobs like computational/systems biologists, informatics analysts, clinical pharmacologists, bioinformatics/pharmacometrics/pkpd, pbpk modeler/dmpk/modeling and simulation scientists jobs are still abundant, and it is not rare to see applicant numbers in very low double digits or single digit weeks even months after posting on linkedin.

There are definitely jobs out there, but so are skill gaps.

So if I wanted to get one of the jobs I bolded in your post above, how much coding expertise would I actually need? Could I complete a couple free courses on Coursera and be considered qualified, or would I need to have some sort of formal qualification (degree, etc.)?

BTW, I know you said before that you weren't interested in cybersecurity, but I actually recently learned about a couple new cybersecurity MS programs that can be completed in as little as one year and have a 90%+ post-grad industry placement stat. I talked to a recent graduate of one of the programs the other day, and he told me that the cybersecurity MS and my Pharm.D. could actually be a marketable degree combination because there are companies in the biotech/pharma industry that would hire me as a consultant right out of school (if what he told me is correct). So that's another option for those of us who are faced with the reality of having to pursue another career (or at least it's an option for those of us who are too "entitled" to move to rural North Dakota and work for CVS).
 
yeah, to a clown who don't know a thing about the industry demand yet constantly crying against the demand lol.

Didn't you graduate a month ago and have 1 month work experience outside of internships?
 
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... Because it's obviously a better idea to force oneself to move to an undesirable area of the country and force themselves to work a job that would make them simply miserable, rather than spend a relatively insignificant amount of time and money pursuing an alternative career that is almost guaranteed to get them a decent-paying, lower-stress job that permits them the "privilege" of living within the geographical confines of what most people consider to be civilization?

......I want you to sit for a second, then reread what you just wrote me......you're doing a great job at convincing me that you're a NOT CS recruiter.
 
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Didn't you graduate a month ago and have 1 month work experience outside of internships?
yeah, but I spent 3+ years reaching out, talking to various people in the department, researching market demand and closely aligned myself with it. If I listened to those "clinical" pharmacy enthusiasts, I doubt I would be in my current position of working this job remotely at home and collect paycheck in my living room, instead I would be more worrying about my hours and pay cut even if I was gifted with a full-time inpatient job lol.
 
So if I wanted to get one of the jobs I bolded in your post above, how much coding expertise would I actually need? Could I complete a couple free courses on Coursera and be considered qualified, or would I need to have some sort of formal qualification (degree, etc.)?

BTW, I know you said before that you weren't interested in cybersecurity, but I actually recently learned about a couple new cybersecurity MS programs that can be completed in as little as one year and have a 90%+ post-grad industry placement stat. I talked to a recent graduate of one of the programs the other day, and he told me that the cybersecurity MS and my Pharm.D. could actually be a marketable degree combination because there are companies in the biotech/pharma industry that would hire me as a consultant right out of school (if what he told me is correct). So that's another option for those of us who are faced with the reality of having to pursue another career (or at least it's an option for those of us who are too "entitled" to move to rural North Dakota and work for CVS).

1. It would take a while to get qualified enough to even apply for those jobs. You'd have to take a bunch of Coursera classes, do some practice, create sample projects and be able to talk about it very well in interviews to get those jobs. I'd say maybe 2-6 months of training for those jobs.

2. Cybersecurity is a very hot field right now. Lots of companies need cyber people so an MS would be a good choice. Try out the Security+ cert to test if you will like it. However, I don't see a way to marry the PharmD and MS Cyber. They don't have too much in common. But PharmD and MS Data Science have some stuff in common at least.
 
So if I wanted to get one of the jobs I bolded in your post above, how much coding expertise would I actually need? Could I complete a couple free courses on Coursera and be considered qualified, or would I need to have some sort of formal qualification (degree, etc.)?

BTW, I know you said before that you weren't interested in cybersecurity, but I actually recently learned about a couple new cybersecurity MS programs that can be completed in as little as one year and have a 90%+ post-grad industry placement stat. I talked to a recent graduate of one of the programs the other day, and he told me that the cybersecurity MS and my Pharm.D. could actually be a marketable degree combination because there are companies in the biotech/pharma industry that would hire me as a consultant right out of school (if what he told me is correct). So that's another option for those of us who are faced with the reality of having to pursue another career (or at least it's an option for those of us who are too "entitled" to move to rural North Dakota and work for CVS).
If you want to break into these areas, you have to do a degree pretty much unless you had relevant research experience during pharmacy school. The primary reason for such low job applicant numbers is that there are not enough graduates meeting the market demand with the right skill set required. A lot of things cannot be readily learned elsewhere. Some widely used industry standard modeling & simulation software we use are also notoriously expensive. I mean, even if you somehow manage to get a hold of the software, the hands-on training is also either very hard-to-get without someone directly teaching you by examples or spending several thousands dollars out of pocket to buy the expensive training material. In that sense, getting another degree is more convenient relatively speaking.

hold on a sec, why are you so obsessed with cybersecurity and want to work for biotech/pharma? It seems so unrelated and not applicable on the job market. like, why would a biotech company hire someone with a cybersecurity ms and a pharmd as a consultant, for a cybersecurity job i guess? if you insist on cybersecurity, you better look for jobs in cybersecurity firms like symantec. if you want to specialize and work for pharma, then maybe get a degree in one of the area that interest you, do a few internships during school, then you can work for them. but cybersecurity and pharma have no overlap, as far as i know.
 
yeah, but I spent 3+ years reaching out, talking to various people in the department, researching market demand and closely aligned myself with it. If I listened to those "clinical" pharmacy enthusiasts, I doubt I would be in my current position of working this job remotely at home and collect paycheck in my living room, instead I would be more worrying about my hours and pay cut even if I was gifted with a full-time inpatient job lol.
DIPEA? Is that you?
 
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To answer the original question: you probably don't need to take the Naplex for your current job if you never plan to work either retail. However, by taking it, the option is always there.

On the other hand, it also sounds like a CS degree isn't necessary for your current job either. I'm willing to bet neither a pharmacy or a CS degree will help you get a promotion once you're already hired; a business degree would probably be more helpful to get a management position.

So the comparison is ~$500 for the naplex/law exam versus 2 years of study + tuition (10-30k?) for a CS degree. Granted, the CS degree will expand your options further but at an obviously much steeper investment. And I doubt either will help you in your current job position.

I'm not sure what state you're located in but it sounds like California. ~100k is about normal for an entry-level position in California for a CS grad. You might be better off hopping jobs for a pay increase (usually internal pay promotions are not nearly as high due to HR rules). I'd expect maybe a 20% increase after a year or two from internal pay increases.

Of course, 100k is still far below the average pharmacist pay in California, especially for an inpatient one (usually it's 145-160k for an entry-level hospital pharmacist). Obviously that pay begins to stagnate, but it'll above above what the pay is currently for awhile.
 
To answer the original question: you probably don't need to take the Naplex for your current job if you never plan to work either retail. However, by taking it, the option is always there.

On the other hand, it also sounds like a CS degree isn't necessary for your current job either. I'm willing to bet neither a pharmacy or a CS degree will help you get a promotion once you're already hired; a business degree would probably be more helpful to get a management position.

So the comparison is ~$500 for the naplex/law exam versus 2 years of study + tuition (10-30k?) for a CS degree. Granted, the CS degree will expand your options further but at an obviously much steeper investment. And I doubt either will help you in your current job position.

I'm not sure what state you're located in but it sounds like California. ~100k is about normal for an entry-level position in California for a CS grad. You might be better off hopping jobs for a pay increase (usually internal pay promotions are not nearly as high due to HR rules). I'd expect maybe a 20% increase after a year or two from internal pay increases.

Of course, 100k is still far below the average pharmacist pay in California, especially for an inpatient one (usually it's 145-160k for an entry-level hospital pharmacist). Obviously that pay begins to stagnate, but it'll above above what the pay is currently for awhile.
I have been monitoring job trends in my area (within 100 miles radius) for the past week. There has been NO new pharmacist job openings on Linkedin. NONE. The most recent one posted was two weeks ago, a night shift, asking for PGY-2 CCU certified candidates. Prior to that was 3 weeks+ ago for similar inpatient hospital jobs. I honestly don't think any of those still exist now, or if they were just phantom postings to begin with in order to waste everybody's time. There is NO job opening for retail either, and the most recent post was more than a month ago for three letters asking for a grad intern.

My CS degree will be fully covered by my employer's tuition assistance program, so there is no additional cost for me on continuing education, whether it's CS or not. There are several internal job postings for statistical scientists and data scientists for personalized healthcare, asking for 2+ years of industry experience (academic experience don't count) + MSc. or PhD in quantitative sciences (Stats, Biostats, Engineering or CS) with 140k base salary and 180k total compensation.

Hospital inpatient pharmacists in my area are having hours and paycut down to bare bones right now. If the lockdown continues for another month or two, they may have to say goodbye to their 6 figure paycheck forever and file for unemployment, if they haven't already.

 
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I have been monitoring job trends in my area (within 100 miles radius) for the past week. There has been NO new pharmacist job openings on Linkedin. NONE. The most recent one posted was two weeks ago, a night shift, asking for PGY-2 CCU certified candidates. Prior to that was 3 weeks+ ago for similar inpatient hospital jobs. I honestly don't think any of those still exist now, or if they were just phantom postings to begin with in order to waste everybody's time. There is NO job opening for retail either, and the most recent post was more than a month ago for three letters asking for a grad intern.

My CS degree will be fully covered by my employer's tuition assistance program, so there is no additional cost for me on continuing education, whether it's CS or not. There are several internal job postings for statistical scientists and data scientists for personalized healthcare, asking for 2+ years of industry experience (academic experience don't count) + MSc. or PhD in quantitative sciences (Stats, Biostats, Engineering or CS) with 140k base salary and 180k total compensation.

Hospital inpatient pharmacists in my area are having hours and paycut down to bare bones right now. If the lockdown continues for another month or two, they may have to say goodbye to their 6 figure paycheck forever and file for unemployment, if they haven't already.

Graduation month is the worst time of the year to be looking at job openings, though there is no doubt they're becoming scarce. You may move to a less saturated area in the future as well due to other unforeseen circumstances. In your case though, there's no immediate benefit to getting licensed particularly if you don't plan on working in retail. The job opening scarcity issue may be further exacerbated if you don't have retail experience.

This career path of yours seems almost like a residency as you'll be working full-time while simultaneously earning another degree. While the pay would be higher than a resident, you'll also be working more as well. The base salary looks like it's comparable to an inpatient pharmacist. There's likely more room for more growth.

As an aside, I don't personally put much stock in "total compensation". My "total compensation" according to HR is ~170k, but much of that is pointless to me.

As for hospital pharmacists, I obviously don't know about the hospitals in your area. Generally what I've seen is that only certain areas are affected by the furloughs (elective surgeries and clinical floor pharmacists). Dispensing inpatient pharmacists generally are sitting fine. This assumes that this isn't one of the union-protected pharmacist positions such as Kaiser in California.
Worst cuts I've seen, from another topic on this forum, was around 25-30% of hours cut with mandatory PTO to fulfill the hours cut.
 
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If you want to break into these areas, you have to do a degree pretty much unless you had relevant research experience during pharmacy school. The primary reason for such low job applicant numbers is that there are not enough graduates meeting the market demand with the right skill set required. A lot of things cannot be readily learned elsewhere. Some widely used industry standard modeling & simulation software we use are also notoriously expensive. I mean, even if you somehow manage to get a hold of the software, the hands-on training is also either very hard-to-get without someone directly teaching you by examples or spending several thousands dollars out of pocket to buy the expensive training material. In that sense, getting another degree is more convenient relatively speaking.

hold on a sec, why are you so obsessed with cybersecurity and want to work for biotech/pharma? It seems so unrelated and not applicable on the job market. like, why would a biotech company hire someone with a cybersecurity ms and a pharmd as a consultant, for a cybersecurity job i guess? if you insist on cybersecurity, you better look for jobs in cybersecurity firms like symantec. if you want to specialize and work for pharma, then maybe get a degree in one of the area that interest you, do a few internships during school, then you can work for them. but cybersecurity and pharma have no overlap, as far as i know.

It's not that I'm particularly obsessed with cybersecurity more than any other tech industry niche; it's just that after researching all the various options for pivoting into a tech profession with a high level of demand and a solid job market, cybersecurity seems to be the path of least resistance.

To be more specific, the entry-level CS programs that are out there have more barriers to entry, aside from UPenn's MCIT program, which I applied to and was rejected from (which was pretty much the expected outcome, considering that they receive ~2k apps per cycle and only accept around 100 students into each class). Boston U has an online MS in software dev, but they require applicants who lack tech backgrounds to take a prerequisite course that essentially serves as a crash course in undergrad CS that they must earn a "B" grade in before they can be admitted to the MS program.

This wouldn't be a problem, except for the fact that I wouldn't qualify for any form of financial aid to cover the ~$2k it would cost to take the prep course. And what if I take the course and end up end up passing it one grade point short of a B? Then I'll have wasted $2k and still not have an acceptance in hand to a CS program. That's just too much of a risk for me to take since I'm not really in a position to spend $2k out of pocket with no guarantee of a program acceptance. It would be a different story if the cost of the course could be covered via federal student loans.

It's just a case of really bad timing for me since I was fired from my intern position (along with the other interns) several months ago, combined with the fact that there aren't any opportunities available to me to earn an even somewhat high income, as there isn't even a single retail grad intern position open in my area. So basically, if I don't get something lined up soon, I'm going to have no choice but to take a low-wage blue collar job and still not be in the position of earning enough money to pay the $2k for the prerequisite course.

On the other hand, even though the cybersecurity programs also require applicants who lack CS backgrounds to take a couple prerequisite courses, the prerequisite courses are included in the curriculum of the cybersecurity program itself (they're taken during the first semester of the program). So in other words, I'd be able to start the cybersecurity program this summer/fall and qualify for federal loans right from the outset. I wouldn't have to make a $2k-$3k gamble on taking a prep course before even being permitted to participate in the application process.

The other advantage to the cybersecurity programs is brevity; the 3 programs I'm looking at can all be completed in a year, whereas the CS/software dev programs would all take 2-2.5 years. At this point, I really need to waste as little time as possible earning an in-demand qualification that can put me in the position of obtaining a solid white-collar career.

So yeah, even if completing a cybersecurity program won't put me in the position where I'm able to make use of both degrees in a "hybrid" sense, I might just have to write off the pharmacy degree as a tremendous waste of time and money and focus on being as successful as I can as a cybersecurity professional.

FWIW, the people (n = 3) I've talked to who have transitioned from pharmacy to traditional CS/SWE aren't working in positions where they're making any use of the pharm degree, so there's no guarantee that a traditional CS job would see me getting any value of the pharm degree anyways.
 
1. It would take a while to get qualified enough to even apply for those jobs. You'd have to take a bunch of Coursera classes, do some practice, create sample projects and be able to talk about it very well in interviews to get those jobs. I'd say maybe 2-6 months of training for those jobs.

2. Cybersecurity is a very hot field right now. Lots of companies need cyber people so an MS would be a good choice. Try out the Security+ cert to test if you will like it. However, I don't see a way to marry the PharmD and MS Cyber. They don't have too much in common. But PharmD and MS Data Science have some stuff in common at least.

Yeah, like I stated in my post above, I might just have to write off my pharmacy degree altogether and focus on starting a career in cybersecurity. The good news is that I've talked to recent graduates of the programs I'm looking at applying to, and they told me that essentially everyone in their class has received lucrative job offers prior to graduation.

One of the grads I talked to actually mentioned making sure to get the Security+ cert that you mentioned while I'm a student in the program. He also told me that during the last 13 weeks of the program, students are given a 13-wk prep course for a certification called CISSP, which is apparently some sort of "gold standard" certification in the cybersecurity industry.

Anyways, like I've said in previous posts, at this point I'm just trying to do as much research as possible so that I DON'T make the same mistake I made when I decided to attend pharmacy school.
 
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Graduation month is the worst time of the year to be looking at job openings, though there is no doubt they're becoming scarce. You may move to a less saturated area in the future as well due to other unforeseen circumstances. In your case though, there's no immediate benefit to getting licensed particularly if you don't plan on working in retail. The job opening scarcity issue may be further exacerbated if you don't have retail experience.

This career path of yours seems almost like a residency as you'll be working full-time while simultaneously earning another degree. While the pay would be higher than a resident, you'll also be working more as well. The base salary looks like it's comparable to an inpatient pharmacist. There's likely more room for more growth.

As an aside, I don't personally put much stock in "total compensation". My "total compensation" according to HR is ~170k, but much of that is pointless to me.

As for hospital pharmacists, I obviously don't know about the hospitals in your area. Generally what I've seen is that only certain areas are affected by the furloughs (elective surgeries and clinical floor pharmacists). Dispensing inpatient pharmacists generally are sitting fine. This assumes that this isn't one of the union-protected pharmacist positions such as Kaiser in California.
Worst cuts I've seen, from another topic on this forum, was around 25-30% of hours cut with mandatory PTO to fulfill the hours cut.
There is actually a big difference between my career path and other industry fellows or hospital residents. I have a 9-5 job that pays full salary and funds my continuing study, which will expands my horizon into the future without any financial burden. Fellows and residents are paid less than half of what I make, and after 2 years, they still have nothing guaranteed. In a recession like this magnitude of sky high unemployment, a job provides financial protection, relevant work experience and a peace of mind. What happens after finishing residency or fellowship, but there is no job waiting. There are too many uncertainties to think about.

The thing is, there are no jobs. It doesn't matter how much a hypothetical job can pay. If it doesn't exist, it pays nothing. In my area, three letters are not even hiring pharmacists. They hire techs, and they hire cashiers, but they don't want pharmacists. Of course a FT + OT three letters pharmacists can hypothetically make close to 200k, but if they are cutting hours, let alone hiring new grads, there is ZERO money to be made.
 
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