DROCKINDAHOUSE

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I saw this in a thread and I remember thinking the SAME THING during all of my interviews as I listened to each person ask "Umm yes is it true that you admit 4 people into your oral surgery program each year?" And no I have no plans of specializing at all as I am UNAWARE as to how I will perform in dental school and what kind of clinician I will eventually be.


***************************

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE TO ALL PREDENTS

You are applying to DENTAL SCHOOL, not ORAL SURGERY SCHOOL, not ORTHODONTIST SCHOOL, not PEDIATRIC DENTAL SCHOOL.

None of you have ever cut a prep, made a crown, made a denture, pulled a tooth, or placed a spacer.

You sound like MORONS when you talk about specializing when you haven't even started learning GENERAL dentistry.


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dentaldream88

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Theres nothing wrong with dreaming big and setting your standards high. Without that, you don't get anywhere in life.
 

vlct0ria

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I already said this in another thread, but I think the majority of us will not really know whether we want to (or whether we'll be able to) specialize until dental school. If someone has a family member in a specialty or shadowed a specialist, then I suppose they have a decent idea of what they're getting themselves into and I guess they're genuine....but most of us, its just whatever makes the most money/has the cushiest lifestyle! :thumbup:
 
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joeDDS

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Gotta agree with dentaldream. I wouldn't think a high schooler was a moron for choosing an undergrad that places a lot of dental students; in the same way that I wouldn't think an applicant was a moron for wanting to choose a dental school that places a lot of specialists. If you plan, you're more likely to have options in the future.
 

predentstud

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some of us have spent numerous hours shadowing a general dentist and the specialties in the field of dentistry and from our observing we have maybe found a specialty that suits us...this is probably why most every school recommends that you shadow the specialties in undergraduate so you can get a look at what might possibly work for you or if general dentistry is more your niche...at one of my interviews I asked the dental students if there is something they would have done different and some of them said that they wish they would have researched specialties more before they got to dental school....some schools don't have specialty programs and some schools that do don't let the general dentistry students rotate through them. I don't think I want to specialize after observing most of the specialties but more power to those who have and decided they want to!!
 

stillhere858

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sounds like someone drank their haterade this morning. Look, lots of us have seen and done a lot more than yourself. We are a goal oriented people. Relax dude:D
 

Contach

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some of us have spent numerous hours shadowing a general dentist and the specialties in the field of dentistry and from our observing we have maybe found a specialty that suits us...this is probably why most every school recommends that you shadow the specialties in undergraduate so you can get a look at what might possibly work for you or if general dentistry is more your niche...at one of my interviews I asked the dental students if there is something they would have done different and some of them said that they wish they would have researched specialties more before they got to dental school....some schools don't have specialty programs and some schools that do don't let the general dentistry students rotate through them. I don't think I want to specialize after observing most of the specialties but more power to those who have and decided they want to!!
interesting. did not know this - thank you!
 

MnBr63

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I think its fair to say, though, that if you would not be happy being a general dentist that you should not apply to dental school in the first place. I know people who think it would be the end of the world if they didn't become an orthodontist and its just sad. The sometimes wish others would do worse than them to make sure they are at the top of their class. Its one thing to want to do your best, but at the expense of others... thats just wrong.
 

prydA

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some of us have spent numerous hours shadowing a general dentist and the specialties in the field of dentistry and from our observing we have maybe found a specialty that suits us...this is probably why most every school recommends that you shadow the specialties in undergraduate so you can get a look at what might possibly work for you or if general dentistry is more your niche...at one of my interviews I asked the dental students if there is something they would have done different and some of them said that they wish they would have researched specialties more before they got to dental school....some schools don't have specialty programs and some schools that do don't let the general dentistry students rotate through them. I don't think I want to specialize after observing most of the specialties but more power to those who have and decided they want to!!
2nd'ed
 

DrillerC

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Gotta agree with dentaldream. I wouldn't think a high schooler was a moron for choosing an undergrad that places a lot of dental students; in the same way that I wouldn't think an applicant was a moron for wanting to choose a dental school that places a lot of specialists. If you plan, you're more likely to have options in the future.
this is how i look at it as well.
 

cybermech

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Everyone wants to maximize their options for later in life. Shooting for specialty ultimately means that you will be working for the necessary grades and board scores (which will be pass/fail soon), as well as doing extracurriculars. If you decided too late in dental school that you want to specialize, and then don't have all the necessary academic components, it's a rough road...
 

Lopyswine

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sounds like someone drank their haterade this morning. Look, lots of us have seen and done a lot more than yourself. We are a goal oriented people. Relax dude:D


well you've obviously had more dental experience than most dental students. You've observed a ton of procedures while we've only performed a few. I think its safe to assume you've had more exposure than the average D3.

Tomorrow when I am cutting for a practical can keep your phone on. I may have some questions I'll need to run past you.
 

Lopyswine

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Everyone wants to maximize their options for later in life. Shooting for specialty ultimately means that you will be working for the necessary grades and board scores (which will be pass/fail soon), as well as doing extracurriculars. If you decided too late in dental school that you want to specialize, and then don't have all the necessary academic components, it's a rough road...

OMG!!! ridiculous predent views!!

Do you realize that probably only the top 15% of your class will be able to specialize. So for 4 years you'll be doing everything for the grades and in the end you still might not make it.

Wouldn't it be better to work your ass off to get the best HANDS you can have and if the opportunity to specialize comes up, then pursue it. You are going to dental school to be a dentist not orthodontist. If you don't want to perform dentistry then choose a different field.

The goal of every dental student should be to provide the highest level of care possible for his or her patient. You won't be able to accomplish this if you already looking past school and focusing on something intangible.
 
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doc toothache

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Aspiring to be a dental specialist before being accepted in ds is about as cool as wanting to be a fireman, policeman or ballerina as a child.
 

prydA

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OMG!!! ridiculous predent views!!

Do you realize that probably only the top 15% of your class will be able to specialize. So for 4 years you'll be doing everything for the grades and in the end you still might not make it.

Wouldn't it be better to work your ass off to get the best HANDS you can have and if the opportunity to specialize comes up, then pursue it. You are going to dental school to be a dentist not orthodontist. If you don't want to perform dentistry then choose a different field.

The goal of every dental student should be to provide the highest level of care possible for his or her patient. You won't be able to accomplish this if you already looking past school and focusing on something intangible.
ridiculous predent views? this is a pre-dent forum, why are you wasting your time here getting mad? wanting to specialize gives you something to aspire to, how can that be bad?
 

Plopper

"This too will pass"
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wow, a lot of pretty strong opinions here...

now my opinion lol, i don't think it's bad for us pre-dents to enter with the mentality of "i'm going to do as great as i possibly can" It opens doors. If i had entered college with the opinion of, well i'm only going to get a degree and if dental school happens it happens. I wouldn't be holding multiple acceptances right now.

Absolutely, i think that at this point you can't make a completely sound decision on if you want to specialize, but i am going to make sure i get the best grades possible so that if i do decide to specialize, i can.

my $0.02
 

Lopyswine

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wow, a lot of pretty strong opinions here...

now my opinion lol, i don't think it's bad for us pre-dents to enter with the mentality of "i'm going to do as great as i possibly can" It opens doors. If i had entered college with the opinion of, well i'm only going to get a degree and if dental school happens it happens. I wouldn't be holding multiple acceptances right now.

Absolutely, i think that at this point you can't make a completely sound decision on if you want to specialize, but i am going to make sure i get the best grades possible so that if i do decide to specialize, i can.

my $0.02
that is the correct view. Do the best you can. Work your butt off. Be the best student you can be. If you end up as a general dentist. GREAT. If you end up as a specialist, GREAT.

Also,
Why I'm here, is because as angry as I sound right now, I am trying to help the predents. This forum was invaluable to me as a predent. I can honestly say my application and view of dental school was stronger because of this forum. I guess I would like to pay it forward.

You can question me all you want, however you should see my PM inbox. I get tons of PMs every day from people on this forum and I do my best to answer their questions about UIC and dental school in general.
 

cobalt31

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its human nature to hone in on a goal and let that be a motivating force. high school students/college students that want to be doctors/lawyers/dentists. first year med students that want to be cardiologists/surgeons/radiologists/anesthesiologists. first year dental students that want to be oral surgeons/orthodontists/endontists. first year law students that want to go into civil law/international law/patent law. first year engineering students that want to go into electrical/civil/nuclear/aerospace engineering.

there are an obscene number of examples where people pick something that may be unlikely or difficult to attain and strive for it. maybe you want to be an astronaut, or a federal judge, or an actor. do you scoff at people with these kinds of goals too?

yes, i think predents should keep it to themselves if they want to specialize, and yes, i don't think they should make up their minds so quickly. but to flip out every time someone sets a goal is just ridiculous and people just need to chill out. don't give yourself hypertension over other people's motives.
 

cobalt31

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that is the correct view. Do the best you can. Work your butt off. Be the best student you can be. If you end up as a general dentist. GREAT. If you end up as a specialist, GREAT.

Also,
Why I'm here, is because as angry as I sound right now, I am trying to help the predents. This forum was invaluable to me as a predent. I can honestly say my application and view of dental school was stronger because of this forum. I guess I would like to pay it forward.

You can question me all you want, however you should see my PM inbox. I get tons of PMs every day from people on this forum and I do my best to answer their questions about UIC and dental school in general.
i understand you are just looking out for people and i think that's great! i also strongly agree in the sentiments you post here - about just working hard and being the best all around dentist you can be. :cool:
 

Plopper

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that is the correct view. Do the best you can. Work your butt off. Be the best student you can be. If you end up as a general dentist. GREAT. If you end up as a specialist, GREAT.

Also,
Why I'm here, is because as angry as I sound right now, I am trying to help the predents. This forum was invaluable to me as a predent. I can honestly say my application and view of dental school was stronger because of this forum. I guess I would like to pay it forward.

You can question me all you want, however you should see my PM inbox. I get tons of PMs every day from people on this forum and I do my best to answer their questions about UIC and dental school in general.
absolutely, i've benefited soo much from these forums, they have been incredibly invaluable to me, and a little addicting haha

but the wealth of knowledge is incredible, and in part it is to people like you who are dental students who take the time to help us pre-dents, so thank you!! :D
 

Aceofspades

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OMG!!! ridiculous predent views!!

Do you realize that probably only the top 15% of your class will be able to specialize. So for 4 years you'll be doing everything for the grades and in the end you still might not make it.

Wouldn't it be better to work your ass off to get the best HANDS you can have and if the opportunity to specialize comes up, then pursue it. You are going to dental school to be a dentist not orthodontist. If you don't want to perform dentistry then choose a different field.

The goal of every dental student should be to provide the highest level of care possible for his or her patient. You won't be able to accomplish this if you already looking past school and focusing on something intangible.
Yes, that is true but consider this: Many people wrote on their personal statement that an early positive (or negative) encounter with a dentist caused them to want to go into dentistry. There are many personal statements that sound off the typical "I have known since I was 4 that I wanted to be a ______". If it is valid for someone to know since they were 4 that they wanted to be a ________, why can't you fill in that blank with orthodontist?

I'm not saying that I think the "I was born to be a ______" or "I knew since I was 4" argument holds any weight, but many think it does. I bet countless essays/personal statements read that way and fill in the blank with dentist, physician, pharmacist, police officer, fireman, actor, lawyer, etc.
 

Lopyswine

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Yes, that is true but consider this: Many people wrote on their personal statement that an early positive (or negative) encounter with a dentist caused them to want to go into dentistry. There are many personal statements that sound off the typical "I have known since I was 4 that I wanted to be a ______". If it is valid for someone to know since they were 4 that they wanted to be a ________, why can't you fill in that blank with orthodontist?

I'm not saying that I think the "I was born to be a ______" or "I knew since I was 4" argument holds any weight, but many think it does. I bet countless essays/personal statements read that way and fill in the blank with dentist, physician, pharmacist, police officer, fireman, actor, lawyer, etc.

at your next interview tell them you want to be an orthodontist. Then take a mental photo of the look on the interviewers face.
 
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joeDDS

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It's funny how some threads get heated. I think that when people use words like "moron" or a condescending tone, like the quote from the OP, is when people end up arguing so much. Stuff like that isn't necessary to get your point across.
 

Lopyswine

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That didn't address my post at all.

well then what was the point of your thread. Of course its ok to say that a positive experience with an orthodontist got you interested in dentistry. Thats totally fine.

Its not ok to say that because of this experience you are going to dental school to be an orthodontist.
 

DrReo

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Look at my signature, it's the basis of man.
 

Aceofspades

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well then what was the point of your thread. Of course its ok to say that a positive experience with an orthodontist got you interested in dentistry. Thats totally fine.

Its not ok to say that because of this experience you are going to dental school to be an orthodontist.

My point is why? Where is the disconnect? Is it because an orthodontist is a type of dentist? Is it because the level of competition is high? Heck, getting into dental school itself is fairly competitive! Does that mean that saying you want to be a dentist is a no-no? People say they want to be detectives when they "grow up" all the time. A detective is a type of police/law enforcement officer. What about Broadway actors, Hollywood actors, and professional athletes? Winning the Olympics? People even say they want to be the President of the United States! Sure, it may be very hard to attain but I don't think that people should be berated or ridiculed for aspiring to reach what they consider to be their dreams in dentistry or otherwise.

To be fair if you think someone saying they want to be an orthodontist is not ok, then you should also say that wanting to be a detective, Hollywood actor, astronaut, pilot, professional athlete, or a myriad of other competitive careers is not ok.
 

Mackchops

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OMG!!! ridiculous predent views!!

Do you realize that probably only the top 15% of your class will be able to specialize. So for 4 years you'll be doing everything for the grades and in the end you still might not make it.

Wouldn't it be better to work your ass off to get the best HANDS you can have and if the opportunity to specialize comes up, then pursue it. You are going to dental school to be a dentist not orthodontist. If you don't want to perform dentistry then choose a different field.

The goal of every dental student should be to provide the highest level of care possible for his or her patient. You won't be able to accomplish this if you already looking past school and focusing on something intangible.
This is horrible advice. Are you suggesting that working your tail off in aspiring to be an OMFS is a wasted effort? That if OMFS HAPPENS to fall in your lap then and ONLY then you should consider pursuing it as a career -- as if it were entirely and completely independent from becoming a "dentist"? What I love about dentistry is that you have the option to pursue and practice whatever aspect of this broad field you are most interested in. If I hate endo I don't have to do any endo -- I can refer out every case I get. Does that make me less of a "dentist" than the GP who takes CE so he can do as much endo as he wants? Or the DENTIST who decides that he/she enjoys endo enough to specialize and give up other aspects of the profession?

The goal of dental school isn't as narrow as you suggest. Sure, you should perform as well as you can, but you also need to absorb, explore, experiment, and focus. Find out what you like, what you're good at, and what you ultimately want to do. Some people figure this out earlier (some even as predents) while others never really figure it out. Some people love everything and CHOOSE to be GP's (believe it or not, general dentistry isn't the fall-back default you resort to if you don't perform well enough to specialize as you suggest). If you've decided to become an orthodontist then you are, in fact, going to dental school to become an orthodontist. You won't get there if you don't excel in drill and fill dentistry simply because you need the grades, but going in with direction and a goal is admirable in my book and should be encouraged. I envy people who know what they want to do when they graduate.
 

Lopyswine

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This is horrible advice. Are you suggesting that working your tail off in aspiring to be an OMFS is a wasted effort? That if OMFS HAPPENS to fall in your lap then and ONLY then you should consider pursuing it as a career -- as if it were entirely and completely independent from becoming a "dentist"? What I love about dentistry is that you have the option to pursue and practice whatever aspect of this broad field you are most interested in. If I hate endo I don't have to do any endo -- I can refer out every case I get. Does that make me less of a "dentist" than the GP who takes CE so he can do as much endo as he wants? Or the DENTIST who decides that he/she enjoys endo enough to specialize and give up other aspects of the profession?

The goal of dental school isn't as narrow as you suggest. Sure, you should perform as well as you can, but you also need to absorb, explore, experiment, and focus. Find out what you like, what you're good at, and what you ultimately want to do. Some people figure this out earlier (some even as predents) while others never really figure it out. Some people love everything and CHOOSE to be GP's (believe it or not, general dentistry isn't the fall-back default you resort to if you don't perform well enough to specialize as you suggest). If you've decided to become an orthodontist then you are, in fact, going to dental school to become an orthodontist. You won't get there if you don't excel in drill and fill dentistry simply because you need the grades, but going in with direction and a goal is admirable in my book and should be encouraged. I envy people who know what they want to do when they graduate.
dude you completely misunderstood my post. I am saying that you have to focus on being a good GENERAL dentist before you can focus on a specialty. I said that every dental student's primary focus should be to be the best dentist he or she can be. Study hard. Work hard. Get the grades you want. THen after some exposure you can pick a speciality. I would never suggest a student to just sit back and get Cs, just as I wouldn't suggest a predent go to dental school to be a orthodontist.

Also, there's nothing wrong with a GP referring out any work. My point is dental school is NOT an ortho residency, its a separate entity. You have to focus on general dentistry first. Only a select few can become orthos, its delusional for every predent to think they will be a OMFS or Ortho. They haven't been accepted to dental school yet and they're talking about residencies where only a few per state are accepted.

Its not automatic to become a specialist after dental school. The vast majority of predents will have to come to terms with the fact that after school they will be drill and fill dentists!
 

Mackchops

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dude you completely misunderstood my post. I am saying that you have to focus on being a good GENERAL dentist before you can focus on a specialty. I said that every dental student's primary focus should be to be the best dentist he or she can be. Study hard. Work hard. Get the grades you want. THen after some exposure you can pick a speciality. I would never suggest a student to just sit back and get Cs, just as I wouldn't suggest a predent go to dental school to be a orthodontist.

Also, there's nothing wrong with a GP referring out any work. My point is dental school is NOT an ortho residency, its a separate entity. You have to focus on general dentistry first. Only a select few can become orthos, its delusional for every predent to think they will be a OMFS or Ortho. They haven't been accepted to dental school yet and they're talking about residencies where only a few per state are accepted.

Its not automatic to become a specialist after dental school. The vast majority of predents will have to come to terms with the fact that after school they will be drill and fill dentists!
Those are comments I would agree with.
 

DROCKINDAHOUSE

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Man, its too bad I got accepted into dental school. I guess now I'll never get to become the starting free safety for the Dallas Cowboys like I always wanted to.
 

DROCKINDAHOUSE

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Some things just SOUND ridiculous
 

MnBr63

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just realize this though.... if you are accepted to dental school it is because you are the cream of the crop of applicants. All of your new classmates share the same mentality, are just as cut throat, and have just as much drive as you. Now, lets fast forward to your first practical in Dental Anatomy...You spend 4 hours making what you think is a PERFECT wax up of tooth. You get your grade back later and find out its a C-. You practice more and more after class, get a tutor, and still struggle to get by with Bs. You're still you're smart enough to make good grades on your written tests. As others stated before, there are often only 4 spots available for orthodontists in some places. In a class of 85 students who are all as smart as you are...don't you see how things can go sour quickly? Get into dental school, see what the environment is like before you say that you will be THE best.

again, do not go through dental school if you aren't going to be satisfied being a general dentist.

Also....PLENTY of specialists were once practicing dentists. who do you think is a better applicant for a specialty program: a fresh out of school dentist who is use to seeing 2 patients a day, or a dentist who has associated for a few years, built up his skills and confidence, can work efficiently, and has managed patients (not just assigned them by the school.)
 

DrReo

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Man, its too bad I got accepted into dental school. I guess now I'll never get to become the starting free safety for the Dallas Cowboys like I always wanted to.
By the looks of it, they need it SOON.
 
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