Gap Year or DO?

[Paramagnetic]

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Hey all.

Not going to get into my whole life story on this thread, but for me, the entire point of going to medical school is to practice as an ER doc.

I did a year at Community College after high school (no important classes were taken) and promptly transferred to my state school. After a year, I've gotten about half of my med school pre-req's out of the way (cGPA 3.7, not including CC GPA, which would bring it up). Currently I am a Junior.

I will not be taking the MCAT until September 1 2016, so I had intended to take a gap year. However, I just recently learned that I could apply to DO schools as late as October (at which point my MCAT would presumably be available).

I don't care about the title difference and I don't want this to become a DO vs. MD status thread, but I have to know; How much more difficult is it for a DO to become an ER doc than an MD? Would DO's just have to apply more broadly? Score higher on something (whichever exam it might be)?

I'm thrilled at the idea of skipping a glide year, but would it be worth it in the long run?

 

[Flashfan]

Without knowing what your MCAT score is, what you have in the way of ECs, letter and personal statement, I would say wait a year. Those that decide to apply DO in October tend to be MD candidates that aren't getting the love from schools. It doesn't take much to revise their personal statement and hit submit. Taking an extra year will save you money and frustration in the long run. Apply once when you have everything ready. Make sure you are a strong MD or DO candidate, make an intelligent list of schools and spend this next year writing your PS, getting your letters ready, shadowing a DO just in case.

 

[AlteredScale]

Hey all.

Not going to get into my whole life story on this thread, but for me, the entire point of going to medical school is to practice as an ER doc.

I did a year at Community College after high school (no important classes were taken) and promptly transferred to my state school. After a year, I've gotten about half of my med school pre-req's out of the way (cGPA 3.7, not including CC GPA, which would bring it up). Currently I am a Junior.

I will not be taking the MCAT until September 1 2016, so I had intended to take a gap year. However, I just recently learned that I could apply to DO schools as late as October (at which point my MCAT would presumably be available).

I don't care about the title difference and I don't want this to become a DO vs. MD status thread, but I have to know; How much more difficult is it for a DO to become an ER doc than an MD? Would DO's just have to apply more broadly? Score higher on something (whichever exam it might be)?

I'm thrilled at the idea of skipping a glide year, but would it be worth it in the long run?

A DO can easily become and ER doc. Now, to do EM at MGH or NYP-Cornell/Columbia? Different story. You'll see 1 DO from NYIT-COM at NYP currently in residency. UCSD has 1 DO in their EM program from Rowan.

 

[PugsAndHugs]

A DO can easily become and ER doc. Now, to do EM at MGH or NYP-Cornell/Columbia? Different story. You'll see 1 DO from NYIT-COM at NYP currently in residency. UCSD has 1 DO in their EM program from Rowan.

What do you think gets these DO graduates into these great residencies? Step scores and ECs during med school?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Why not just take the MCAT in April/May like so many others do. What happens if you do poorly on your Sept 1st MCAT don't get your results until mid October and have to retake?

 

[AlteredScale]

What do you think gets these DO graduates into these great residencies? Step scores and ECs during med school?

Probably a good mixture of good step scores, good research, and solid connections to the programs.

 

[Paramagnetic]

Without knowing what your MCAT score is, what you have in the way of ECs, letter and personal statement, I would say wait a year. Those that decide to apply DO in October tend to be MD candidates that aren't getting the love from schools. It doesn't take much to revise their personal statement and hit submit. Taking an extra year will save you money and frustration in the long run. Apply once when you have everything ready. Make sure you are a strong MD or DO candidate, make an intelligent list of schools and spend this next year writing your PS, getting your letters ready, shadowing a DO just in case.

Just so I'm sure, you are saying wait the extra year without respect for how prepared I may be, because I run the risk of looking like someone who tried for MD but didn't make it?

 

[Paramagnetic]

Why not just take the MCAT in April/May like so many others do. What happens if you do poorly on your Sept 1st MCAT don't get your results until mid October and have to retake?

By April/May I'll be taking orgo 2 + lab/ physics 2/ biochem. Better to take it when I'm ready than when I'm not.

 

[Paramagnetic]

Probably a good mixture of good step scores, good research, and solid connections to the programs.

This conversation is with respect to a more "prestigious" residency position? Or just your standard EM residency?

I'm unsure of some specific medical school processes like major exams or application to residency. Do your step scores get sent to wherever you may want to go for residency? Perhaps a DO would have to score higher than their MD counterpart?

 

[Bones 2020]

The doc I shadowed went to Touro-Cali and did his ED residency at OHSU, and also had an acceptance at UC-Davis

 

[AlteredScale]

This conversation is with respect to a more "prestigious" residency position? Or just your standard EM residency?

I'm unsure of some specific medical school processes like major exams or application to residency. Do your step scores get sent to wherever you may want to go for residency? Perhaps a DO would have to score higher than their MD counterpart?

If you're looking for more prestigious residency spots in EM (think MGH, NYP, etc) then it can be harder as a DO because many of these spots are already very difficulty for most MD applicants to get.

At this point in time, It doesn't matter what a DO scores on the steps tbh, a program director can simply exclude all independent applicants (DO, IMG, FMG, Reapps within ERA) when seeking out who to interview for their program.

With the merger and the possibility of ERAS including DO apps as internal applicants such as MD students, perhaps it may do something. But I'm not going to spout anything I'm not educated on.

 

[moisne]

Why 9/1/2016 and not 7/1/2016 or even better in May?

 

[WedgeDawg]

I could be totally wrong, but aren't a lot of the "better" EM residencies ones that you might not expect? Places with high volume, lots of trauma, and has more public/community programs "at the top" than other specialties? Just because MGH, NYP, etc are fantastic hospitals doesn't necessarily mean that they have the "best" EM residencies or that you should be trying to match there for whatever reasons. Again, could be totally wrong.

 

[GrapesofRath]

OP alot of your questions about EM and the MD vs DO and DO's as EMs, residency options etc can be rather easily answered with the search function.

No you won't find a cookie cut answer perfect for you in 5 minutes. But spend maybe 10 hours or more on here exploring this over the next few weeks and I think you'll get a much better feel and idea of what you should consider. And most importantly, you'll start to see how much you really can't consider effectively as of now, or how little you know as a pre-med and about the field of EM and residency options. WedgeDawg did a good job highlighted many of the issues with such a simple line of thinking and thought, and how complicated this stuff is and how your perspective on things will change radically over the next several years.

To your initial question take the MCAT when you are ready. If you are hell bent on not taking a gap year, open to the DO philosophy and keep up the solid grades, yes you can probably take the MCAT Sept 1st next year and be ok for the DO cycle. But there's alot to consider here; just ditching the MD possibility because of a refusal to take a gap year and being late with the MCAT you may find might not be the best course of action for you.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

@alpinism is an EM expert. Perhaps he can provide some insight.

 

[alpinism]

What do you think gets these DO graduates into these great residencies? Step scores and ECs during med school?

Neither one of those are considered "great residencies" per se.

For EM many would argue that BU/BMC and Sinai/Elmhurst offer better clinical training than Harvard/MGH and Columbia/NYP.

In a nutshell the competitiveness of EM programs is mostly linked to their location ( big city on the coasts > smaller cities in the midwest and south) and also the program's history and reputation (older more established programs > newer less estabilshed programs).

 

[alpinism]

In terms of DO vs MD, its not too difficult to match EM as a DO since you can apply to both AOA (DO) and ACGME (MD) programs. As long as you pass all your classes, have decent board scores, and apply broadly, you should be able to match somewhere (which is the key word).

The main difference is that if you go the DO route:

1) Some competitive MD programs don't accept DO applicants.
2) Most competitive MD programs that do accept DOs will expect higher board scores/grades compared to MDs.
3) Many DO residencies are in tiny rural hospitals that offer subpar training.

TL;DR version: You can become an ER doc as a DO without too much difficulty, however, you'll need to be at the top of your class or have great ECs to get into the competitive MD EM programs.

In general, I usually advise people to keep as many doors open as possible since you never know what you might be looking for in 4-5 years when applying for residency. Going DO is a good option for some people but its not an easy shortcut and can limit your options in the future.

 

[Paramagnetic]

Why 9/1/2016 and not 7/1/2016 or even better in May?

I will not have Orgo/Biochem/Physics classes complete until 5/15/2016. Taking the MCAT on 9/1/2016 allots me 3.5 months (during the summer) to prepare.

 

[Paramagnetic]

OP alot of your questions about EM and the MD vs DO and DO's as EMs, residency options etc can be rather easily answered with the search function.

No you won't find a cookie cut answer perfect for you in 5 minutes. But spend maybe 10 hours or more on here exploring this over the next few weeks and I think you'll get a much better feel and idea of what you should consider. And most importantly, you'll start to see how much you really can't consider effectively as of now, or how little you know as a pre-med and about the field of EM and residency options. WedgeDawg did a good job highlighted many of the issues with such a simple line of thinking and thought, and how complicated this stuff is and how your perspective on things will change radically over the next several years.

To your initial question take the MCAT when you are ready. If you are hell bent on not taking a gap year, open to the DO philosophy and keep up the solid grades, yes you can probably take the MCAT Sept 1st next year and be ok for the DO cycle. But there's alot to consider here; just ditching the MD possibility because of a refusal to take a gap year and being late with the MCAT you may find might not be the best course of action for you.

I agree with virtually everything you just said.

Is it likely that my feelings change in the coming years? Yes.

Could I find 'similar' threads? Eventually, probably.

However I'm not outright abandoning the idea of taking a gap year. I wanted to get some educated opinions on this early on to see if it was worth seriously looking into (like spending time shadowing DOs, something I would do only if I was seriously considering that option).

I'm probably coming off as defensive here, but I know it's not exactly a simple or straightforward process. Just using this thread to help me put some pieces of the puzzle together.

 

[Paramagnetic]

In terms of DO vs MD, its not too difficult to match EM as a DO since you can apply to both AOA (DO) and ACGME (MD) programs. As long as you pass all your classes, have decent board scores, and apply broadly, you should be able to match somewhere (which is the key word).

The main difference is that if you go the DO route:

1) Some competitive MD programs don't accept DO applicants.
2) Most competitive MD programs that do accept DOs will expect higher board scores/grades compared to MDs.
3) Many DO residencies are in tiny rural hospitals that offer subpar training.

TL;DR version: You can become an ER doc as a DO without too much difficulty, however, you'll need to be at the top of your class or have great ECs to get into the competitive MD EM programs.

In general, I usually advise people to keep as many doors open as possible since you never know what you might be looking for in 4-5 years when applying for residency. Going DO is a good option for some people but its not an easy shortcut and can limit your options in the future.

Thank you so much Alpinism! This was really helpful

 

[Paramagnetic]

I could be totally wrong, but aren't a lot of the "better" EM residencies ones that you might not expect? Places with high volume, lots of trauma, and has more public/community programs "at the top" than other specialties? Just because MGH, NYP, etc are fantastic hospitals doesn't necessarily mean that they have the "best" EM residencies or that you should be trying to match there for whatever reasons. Again, could be totally wrong.

I hadn't really considered residency 'rankings' before this thread. I live in NJ so would like to do residency in the PA/NJ/NY area (being on the coast, I'd imagine these are the exact 'competive' residencies everyone is referring to with some poorer/urban cities in the mix). Thanks for this contribution Wedge.

 

[Flashfan]

I will not have Orgo/Biochem/Physics classes complete until 5/15/2016. Taking the MCAT on 9/1/2016 allots me 3.5 months (during the summer) to prepare.

A lot of us studied for the MCAT while taking those classes. I incorporated a lot of what I was learning in classes into my MCAT training. If you make studying a part of your spring semester, you can just pump out a solid month of practice tests and take it in June. Truthfully, until you have a score, the DO/MD argument is not really worth much because your scores will dictate whether you apply to MD/DO or both.

 

[moisne]

I will not have Orgo/Biochem/Physics classes complete until 5/15/2016. Taking the MCAT on 9/1/2016 allots me 3.5 months (during the summer) to prepare.

The longer you wait after an exam - the harder it will be. Just take your McAT like 2 weeks after your final