Gen. Chem labs vs. Orgo. Labs

[cdm3413]

At least at my institution, the general chemistry labs were more calculation-driven, with students having to focus on quantitative results, et cetera. I was wondering to what caliber to the general chemistry labs differ from the organic chemistry ones? I've heard there's almost no math and the subjects tend to be very conceptual.

Any input on this?
Thanks in advance.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Procyon]

I didn't find my orgo lab to be terribly conceptual, and it certainly wasn't calculation-oriented. Occasionally you have to do some stoichiometry to get the right amounts, but more than anything orgo lab felt like a cooking class where you had to make the right "food", but even when you followed the recipe, it would go wrong for random reasons.

Some stuff like IR and NMR is pretty conceptual, though. Otherwise it's just running reactions, and in my case, it was barely ever helpful, because it rarely matched up with what we learned in lecture. IMO, the most valuable stuff I got out of orgo lab was certain techniques; learn how to do your separations, recrystallizations and that sort of thing well, and understand those sorts of concepts, and you'll do pretty well.

 

[cdm3413]

I didn't find my orgo lab to be terribly conceptual, and it certainly wasn't calculation-oriented. Occasionally you have to do some stoichiometry to get the right amounts, but more than anything orgo lab felt like a cooking class where you had to make the right "food", but even when you followed the recipe, it would go wrong for random reasons.

Some stuff like IR and NMR is pretty conceptual, though. Otherwise it's just running reactions, and in my case, it was barely ever helpful, because it rarely matched up with what we learned in lecture. IMO, the most valuable stuff I got out of orgo lab was certain techniques; learn how to do your separations, recrystallizations and that sort of thing well, and understand those sorts of concepts, and you'll do pretty well.

Tanx.

 

[orthomyxo]

I didn't find my orgo lab to be terribly conceptual, and it certainly wasn't calculation-oriented. Occasionally you have to do some stoichiometry to get the right amounts, but more than anything orgo lab felt like a cooking class where you had to make the right "food", but even when you followed the recipe, it would go wrong for random reasons.

Some stuff like IR and NMR is pretty conceptual, though. Otherwise it's just running reactions, and in my case, it was barely ever helpful, because it rarely matched up with what we learned in lecture. IMO, the most valuable stuff I got out of orgo lab was certain techniques; learn how to do your separations, recrystallizations and that sort of thing well, and understand those sorts of concepts, and you'll do pretty well.

Central dogma of organic lab: anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

 

[circulus vitios]

Gen chem lab: My experiment didn't work because some idiot contaminated the reagents.

Organic chem lab: My experiment didn't work because I don't know. The professor doesn't know either.

 

[unhappytnt]

Gen chem lab: My experiment didn't work because some idiot contaminated the reagents.

Organic chem lab: My experiment didn't work because I don't know. The professor doesn't know either.

That's so funny because it's so true. To this day I still don't know how I managed to get A's in those labs...

 

[cdm3413]

That's so funny because it's so true. To this day I still don't know how I managed to get A's in those labs...

No tips? No secrets?

aww.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Aftermath of a Gen Chem Lab : "Boy, I just wasted 3 hours of my life."
Aftermath of an OChem Lab : " God, I think I'm going to cry."

 

[Danlee07]

Gen Chem Labs: Keep adding and measuring...

Orgo: Add and wait a year...and hope for a good % yield

 

[circulus vitios]

No tips? No secrets?

aww.

There are no tips or secrets for o-chem labs. There were a few times where my product was so monumentally f'ed up (eg, I should get a solid that evaporates from solvent but I really get a biphasic colloidal mess that doesn't evaporate but rather bumps and explodes out of the beaker) that I didn't even bother finishing the lab. I just dumped everything down the sink, wrote 0% for yield, and spent a few paragraphs listing each of the 100 ways my reaction could have gone wrong without actually reaching a conclusion as to which one it really was.

 

[Amba]

Like everyone has said, orgo and gen chem labs are a bit different. Both depend on your TA/professor though. For my orgo lab that I'm currently in, my TA doesn't care a whole lot about yield (we got 9% yield on an E2 rxn and only lost half a point ). A lot of the points are conceptual problems in the post-lab portion that force you to understand why you did what you did.

The cooking analogy is for orgo labs is spot on. Throw a bunch of stuff together, bake (reflux) it, and hope you get what you want out.

 

[orthomyxo]

Organic chem lab: My experiment didn't work because I don't know. The professor doesn't know either.

So damn true. I think I became an expert on speculation through the course of having to write lab reports about why my product was black and why my yield was 764%. Thank god our grade was only like 5% technique.

 

[StoicJosher]

Yes.. Usually, when you get to Ochem, the results matter much less.. Unless you have great awesome super genius technique, you end up with 5% yield or 300% yield. It usually boils down to the TA/teacher. For both Orgo 1 and 2, I had teachers adn TA's that didnt really care about the result as long as we knew the mechanism, technique and reasoning behind the reactions..

PS: In case anyone was wondering, I am one of the guys with great awesome super genius technique.... NOT!!!

 

[unhappytnt]

No tips? No secrets?

aww.

Actually, there is one: Be as verbose as you possibly can. Works especially well in Ochem lab reports. They tell you to be precise and keep it short, but just sound smart while using big words and you'll get the points.

 

[cdm3413]

Actually, there is one: Be as verbose as you possibly can. Works especially well in Ochem lab reports. They tell you to be precise and keep it short, but just sound smart while using big words and you'll get the points.

Ah, jeez! There's too much of a dichotomy for that.
Simple: Great.
Complex: Great.


wat do ~_~

 

[Bungie]

My orgo labs were graded 25/75 % yield/report. So it actually matter what are yield was, and I can tell you I hardly every had more than 50%.

 

[cdm3413]

My orgo labs were graded 25/75 % yield/report. So it actually matter what are yield was, and I can tell you I hardly every had more than 50%.

Obviously perfect yield is near impossible, so you just reported a yield? How do they verify this?

 

[orthomyxo]

Obviously perfect yield is near impossible, so you just reported a yield? How do they verify this?

They don't

 

[brahms11]

At my school percent yield didn't matter much (unlike gen chem lab which was brutal). Just learn the mechanisms you'll be using before lab, take decent notes, and put together a decent lab report that addresses what should have happened and gives reasonable explanations for what went wrong. Even if it's not less work, it's definitely much more exciting than precipitating AgBr every week for a year.


Protip: don't always put operator error as the source of your woeful yield numbers. While this is undoubtedly true, is not as good of a choice as possible side reactions that make you sound smarter. Protip 2: Make sure the drainage tube from your water jacket is in the sink as opposed to a hole in the cabinet when running fractional distillations to avoid flooding the lab. Protip 3: Don't heat stopped separatory funnels over flame for 10 min as they may explode in your face. (The latter two from friends in the same lab!)

 

[orthomyxo]

Protip 4: make sure both water tubes on your condenser are FIRMLY in place before turning on the water. Otherwise, wear your bathing suit.

 

[CodeBlu]

Aftermath of a Gen Chem Lab : "Boy, I just wasted 3 hours of my life."
Aftermath of an OChem Lab : " God, I think I'm going to cry."

Truth.

 

[torshi]

Gen chem lab: My experiment didn't work because some idiot contaminated the reagents.

Organic chem lab: My experiment didn't work because I don't know. The professor doesn't know either.

lmao

 

[cdm3413]

Wow, I'd hate to be in that lab. I almost always inflated my % yields because nobody checked the actual end product

Do they at times expect higher than 100%?
It can't be 100% all the time...

 

[Procyon]

Protip 4: make sure both water tubes on your condenser are FIRMLY in place before turning on the water. Otherwise, wear your bathing suit.

You will get wet in orgo lab. Or burned. Probably both. I did. And your hands will smell like gross organic compounds for the rest of the day.

 

[circulus vitios]

You will get wet in orgo lab. Or burned. Probably both. I did. And your hands will smell like gross organic compounds for the rest of the day.

My hands were stained orange for a few days after playing with Brady's reagent.

 

[postbacpremed87]

After 110% (which is obviously horrible) yield...it just gets funny

So damn true. I think I became an expert on speculation through the course of having to write lab reports about why my product was black and why my yield was 764%. Thank god our grade was only like 5% technique.