Get cranial osteopathy off COMLEX

[brucecanbeatyou]

DMU's SOMA branch just sent out a survey to members of national SOMA that asks for student opinion on cranial osteopathy. Please look for this email if you are a member of SOMA and fill it out. The goal is to assess students' experiences with cranial, and perhaps to adopt a SOMA-wide resolution that supports eliminating cranial from COMLEX and curricula. Please fill out the survey and, if your opinion is anything like mine, help support any organization that tries to eliminate this aspect of OMM from our required classes and licensing exams.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[kazuma]

Filled it out last week. This would be a great and much needed resolution. Cranial is a joke.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

You guys think this will actually happen, getting rid oF cranial and all?

 

[PistolPete]

I hate cranial as much as the next person, but I really don't think this will happen. Too many old-school pure-OMM "physicians" still around for this to occur.

I'd be delighted if I was proved wrong though!

 

[sideways]

haha you guys just don't get it. you really think it's about "what works?" LOL. it's about maintaing a false distinction. it's about money and careers and power.

 

[patel2]

I hate cranial as much as the next person, but I really don't think this will happen. Too many old-school pure-OMM "physicians" still around for this to occur.

I'd be delighted if I was proved wrong though!

This. It's funny...some of these OMM docs seem to be delusional.

I had an interview with a OMM person and so I had to BS about why I think all this stuff is awesome for 30 mins (since he basically only asked about osteopathy and gave a history of cranial being a miracle of the profession). He said that he thinks that OMM is the future of the profession and that students will only be using it more and more as time goes on.

 

[Bacchus]

False. (to the above poster)

 

[kcin]

Cranial master:

 

[sarcoid]

I go to a DO school. The moment I started looking down upon OMM, the AOA, and those who preach this crap was during the first lecture on cranial. I will quote our 'professor':

"When we manipulate these bones, it is a very fine adjustment. We're talking angstroms here."

We all just looked at each other and kept our mouths shut because that's what you have to do to get through this in order to move on to an allo residency.

The worst part about the whole thing is, they are feeding it to us with the line that Medicare pays for omm so DO FM's that bill for omm end up getting paid 30-50k more than MD FM's. (They actually did the calculation in front of us using omm billing rates times number of patients per year and it came out to that. It felt like they were trying to bribe us into believing the doctrine.)

Someone asked the question: does Medicare pay for cranial? They answered that as long as you treat with omm the gov will pay for it, so yes, Medicare pays for cranial.

Imagine a Bill O'Reilly show about DO's billing Medicare for doing cranial. The AOA would be screwed.

 

[superiortrunk5]

Equally as embarrassing are questions about Chapman's points spattered throughout the COMLEX.

The LAST thing I will ever do is look for a discreet nodule of the shoulder of a patient who presents with cerebellar ataxia. SORRY............guess that makes me closed minded.

I think as the next generation of DOs, if we are ever to gain the respect of the medical community as a whole, we need to get rid of these anecdotal therapies. If these folks believe so strongly in cranial, then why are they so scared to design well controlled trials to validate it. I applaud you all for moving forward with this!

 

[brucecanbeatyou]

haha you guys just don't get it. you really think it's about "what works?" LOL. it's about maintaing a false distinction. it's about money and careers and power.

Hey, I'm not expecting a change tomorrow, but if SOMA, the Student Osteopathic Medical Association adopts a resolution to remove cranial from the COMLEX and required curricula, that's better than nothing. Like one of the other posters said, we are the next generation of DO's, and now is the time to decide where our generation stands on stuff like this.

Or maybe after medical schools see that very little students buy into cranial, they will just spend more time and money trying to convince us haha.

 

[PistolPete]

Cranial master:

Hahahaha.... awesome!

To all future DO's: please be EVIDENCE-based!

I hate that I have to keep re-learning this cranial crap for each COMLEX exam... sigh...

Here's the kicker: I had to do a MONTH rotation with a "cranial master". Thank god she did conventional OMM techniques as well, but jeez, that was a long, painful month.

 

[brucecanbeatyou]

Equally as embarrassing are questions about Chapman's points spattered throughout the COMLEX.

The LAST thing I will ever do is look for a discreet nodule of the shoulder of a patient who presents with cerebellar ataxia. SORRY............guess that makes me closed minded.

I think as the next generation of DOs, if we are ever to gain the respect of the medical community as a whole, we need to get rid of these anecdotal therapies. If these folks believe so strongly in cranial, then why are they so scared to design well controlled trials to validate it. I applaud you all for moving forward with this!

Can you imagine rubbing a supposed nodule on some poor patient and then charging them $200? It's highway robbery.

 

[cyclohexanol]

Can you imagine rubbing a supposed nodule on some poor patient and then charging them $200? It's highway robbery.

$400 where I had to do my mandatory wallet surgery rotation

 

[engineeredout]

I sware, I think it just has to be my school with these absolutely insane OMM faculty, and then I come on here and I read these stories and its the same thing. Its like all these guys get together and smoke from the same bongs when coming up with this stuff

 

[DOtoCanada]

As for being evidence based....

Think about some of the lectures we got. If something is 50% specific and 50% sensitive, you might as well flip a coin. It will give you the same results. If I have a patient with nausea, vomiting, RLQ pain, a high WBC count, a fever and a positive McBurney's point, will a + chapman's appendix point help you rule in or rule out appendicitis?

No. No it will not. So this begs the question, why the hell even do it? This is, of course, assuming they are real, which they aren't.

 

[Pansit]

DMU's SOMA branch just sent out a survey to members of national SOMA that asks for student opinion on cranial osteopathy. Please look for this email if you are a member of SOMA and fill it out. The goal is to assess students' experiences with cranial, and perhaps to adopt a SOMA-wide resolution that supports eliminating cranial from COMLEX and curricula. Please fill out the survey and, if your opinion is anything like mine, help support any organization that tries to eliminate this aspect of OMM from our required classes and licensing exams.

Filled this out already...pretty much went straight down saying get rid of it. DMU is a pretty progressive school and they are the ones behind this study. About 60% of DMU grads specialize (not primary care), the dean at the school (a surgeon) told the entire student class once that he hadnt done OMM since second year of med school. And I am going to assume that the study will get over 85% of students will be for getting rid of it.

 

[mike1618]

This would be fantastic. It seems that those who enter osteopathic academia are also those who are huge OMM advocates. These are the same people who are leaders in the AOA. We will have to break that cycle in order to get rid of the quackery in our future profession.

 

[Altruist]

As for being evidence based....

Think about some of the lectures we got. If something is 50% specific and 50% sensitive, you might as well flip a coin. It will give you the same results. If I have a patient with nausea, vomiting, RLQ pain, a high WBC count, a fever and a positive McBurney's point, will a + chapman's appendix point help you rule in or rule out appendicitis?

No. No it will not. So this begs the question, why the hell even do it? This is, of course, assuming they are real, which they aren't.

Well, sure, the anterior chapman points are for diagnosis, but the posterior ones are for treatment! Logically, you should just fix that inflamed appendix with a little inhibition around the posterior appendix point on the right side of T12.

Being coached through the cranial-sacral rhythm of a classmate in OMM lab was one of the most ridiculous experiences I've ever had.

For some reason, what crossed my mind at the time was the poster that hung behind Mulder's desk on the X-files: "I want to believe!" Print that over a portrait of A.T. Still and I think someone's OMM club could have a sweet little fundraiser selling posters. You can thank me later.

 

[sarcoid]

facebook.com/?w2m#/profile.php?id=100001105964414

Edit:
SORRY, posting from my phone so the link didn't work. Basically, you can be AT Still's friend on FB. He is looking for more friends. He might want you to prove you are a bonafide DO student.

 

[brucecanbeatyou]

Filled this out already...pretty much went straight down saying get rid of it. DMU is a pretty progressive school and they are the ones behind this study. About 60% of DMU grads specialize (not primary care), the dean at the school (a surgeon) told the entire student class once that he hadnt done OMM since second year of med school. And I am going to assume that the study will get over 85% of students will be for getting rid of it.

I didn't realize, but Dr. Kendall Reed, the dean of DMU is in fact the PI on this study. I now have a new hero. A surgeon AND myth buster.

 

[Pansit]

I didn't realize, but Dr. Kendall Reed, the dean of DMU is in fact the PI on this study. I now have a new hero. A surgeon AND myth buster.

Yeah...DMU also just hired a new president and she is the former executive vice president and provost at Meharry Medical College. I don't think she will care too much about cranial. If the students dont want it, I dont see why the dean or her would not support that.

 

[HealingDoc]

This. It's funny...some of these OMM docs seem to be delusional.

I had an interview with a OMM person and so I had to BS about why I think all this stuff is awesome for 30 mins (since he basically only asked about osteopathy and gave a history of cranial being a miracle of the profession). He said that he thinks that OMM is the future of the profession and that students will only be using it more and more as time goes on.

I hope the admissions committee can see past the BS, because it seems like Osteopathic Medical School is not a good fit for you if you're already discounting OMT.

At Touro-CA, our professors say that OMM is the future of the profession and they right to say that in regard to Touro-CA grads. We have some of the most dedicated OMM faculty in the nation, and our students are very highly interested in learning OMT.

 

[patel2]

I hope the admissions committee can see past the BS, because it seems like Osteopathic Medical School is not a good fit for you if you're already discounting OMT.

At Touro-CA, our professors say that OMM is the future of the profession and they right to say that in regard to Touro-CA grads. We have some of the most dedicated OMM faculty in the nation, and our students are very highly interested in learning OMT.

Why? The vast majority of DO grads disregard omm after med school and the numbers entering allopathic residencies increase each year. Clearly it's not the future of the profession, but instead the academic types at OMM depts are delusional. I'm not putting it down or saying it isn't useful for patients, but tons of osteopathic students (especially those who specialize) have little interest in learning or using it, other than to pass the comlex. I'd be willing to bet that if it wasn't a topic on the comlex and you asked students if they could opt out of OMM training, >50% of students would.

There isn't anything wrong with going to osteopathic med school with zero affinity for OMM, just as there isn't anything wrong with having an affinity for it. It's really a small part of being a talented physician and to each their own

 

[HealingDoc]

I didn't mind having cranial on the COMLEX. Its not that hard to learn the strain patterns and philosophy behind it. I did not find it to be particularly difficult material. I was also pleasantly surprised that learning the material for cranial significantly improved my neuro basic science scores. I know the shape of the skull and function of cranial nerves now like the back of my hand.

The results of this survey are going to be used to draft a resolution which will be presented for voting at spring convention. Based on the blurb at the end of the survey, we know the "resolved" statements will suggest removing Cranial from COMLEX and required lab sessions. Even if this were to pass, it would go on to AOA in the form of a suggestion, and from my experience as a part of SOMA National Board, I can tell you that our suggestions are only a very small part of the equation that goes into decision-making on a higher level. If the people at DMU-COM want Cranial to be removed, they will have to convince their dean to do this first, and they will also need to take it up with the AOA directly through the physician representatives. I just think that the chances are slim of that the AOA will decide to take it off COMLEX and make it only an elective- the AOA has close ties with the Cranial Academy, and many of them are a part of the Cranial Academy.

 

[HealingDoc]

Why? The vast majority of DO grads disregard omm after med school and the numbers entering allopathic residencies increase each year. Clearly it's not the future of the profession, but instead the academic types at OMM depts are delusional. I'm not putting it down or saying it isn't useful for patients, but tons of osteopathic students (especially those who specialize) have little interest in learning or using it, other than to pass the comlex. I'd be willing to bet that if it wasn't a topic on the comlex and you asked students if they could opt out of OMM training, >50% of students would.

There isn't anything wrong with going to osteopathic med school with zero affinity for OMM, just as there isn't anything wrong with having an affinity for it. It's really a small part of being a talented physician and to each their own

I honestly don't see how you are able to make such strongly opinionated statements about DO graduates' use of OMT, their willingness to learn it for purposes other than passing the COMLEX, and more than 50% of students wanting to opt out of OMM training without citing some kind of poll or awareness study about this subject. Osteopathic principles and practice (another way of saying OMM) is the ONLY thing that makes DO education different than MD education. OMM encompases the DO philosophy in addition to the diagnosis and treatment modalities. To say that you can have a zero affinity for OMM and still apply to DO schools makes no sense to me. I do know that applicants like this get into DO school every year. Some actually end up appreciating OMM and utilizing the palpatory skills frequently in school and subsequently in practice. Some end up feeling miserable about OMM. If you get into DO school, I certainly hope you can maintain an open mind to learning about the philosophy behind the profession you will identify with for the rest of your life.

 

[brucecanbeatyou]

I honestly don't see how you are able to make such strongly opinionated statements about DO graduates' use of OMT, their willingness to learn it for purposes other than passing the COMLEX, and more than 50% of students wanting to opt out of OMM training without citing some kind of poll or awareness study about this subject. Osteopathic principles and practice (another way of saying OMM) is the ONLY thing that makes DO education different than MD education. OMM encompases the DO philosophy in addition to the diagnosis and treatment modalities. To say that you can have a zero affinity for OMM and still apply to DO schools makes no sense to me. I do know that applicants like this get into DO school every year. Some actually end up appreciating OMM and utilizing the palpatory skills frequently in school and subsequently in practice. Some end up feeling miserable about OMM. If you get into DO school, I certainly hope you can maintain an open mind to learning about the philosophy behind the profession you will identify with for the rest of your life.

This thread isn't about OMM in general, it's about cranial osteopathy, which belongs on the fringe of medicine, not in our licensing exams and required curricula.

 

[bleeker10]

Cranial sucks and I don't believe in it at all but I don't mind having questions on it for the COMLEX. They are pretty easy questions and easy points for boards. Plus you can answer them quick and build up more time to answer questions later on in the section. I'd rather have questions asking me which way paired bones rotate in flexion/extension than crap about the ribs or which way the sacrum/L5 is moving when a person goes bowling and hurts themselves. These questions aren't inherently difficult, they just take more time to answer and I'd rather use that time to work on tougher basic science questions.

As far as getting it out of our curriculum, well I don't think that's gonna happen in the near future. I just don't see how much political pull SOMA has with the AOA. I have more important things to worry about right now with school (boards, rotations, residency) than trying to get cranial off the COMLEX. Even if its taken off the COMLEX, it won't happen when we take it this summer.

Honestly I really don't care that much about being politically active with AOA, SOMA, etc while I'm in med school. When I'm out of residency and have more time, I will become more involved.

 

[SmokD]

I didn't mind having cranial on the COMLEX. Its not that hard to learn the strain patterns and philosophy behind it. I did not find it to be particularly difficult material. I was also pleasantly surprised that learning the material for cranial significantly improved my neuro basic science scores. I know the shape of the skull and function of cranial nerves now like the back of my hand.

Nobody cares that its easy/difficult. It's not remotely evidence based and not relevant for 99% of DO graduates(completely accurate statistic).

Down with quackery

 

[Pansit]

I honestly don't see how you are able to make such strongly opinionated statements about DO graduates' use of OMT, their willingness to learn it for purposes other than passing the COMLEX, and more than 50% of students wanting to opt out of OMM training without citing some kind of poll or awareness study about this subject. Osteopathic principles and practice (another way of saying OMM) is the ONLY thing that makes DO education different than MD education. OMM encompases the DO philosophy in addition to the diagnosis and treatment modalities. To say that you can have a zero affinity for OMM and still apply to DO schools makes no sense to me. I do know that applicants like this get into DO school every year. Some actually end up appreciating OMM and utilizing the palpatory skills frequently in school and subsequently in practice. Some end up feeling miserable about OMM. If you get into DO school, I certainly hope you can maintain an open mind to learning about the philosophy behind the profession you will identify with for the rest of your life.

Like somoene said before...this isnt about OMM. It's about cranial. And judging just from my class alone that whenever we get behind close doors the majority of students are making a joke about it, I think that should be relevant to the AOA. And judging from the trend that more DO's are going into allopathic residencies, it's no wonder why. Because the AOA likes to pretend issues that matter to students (like unproven, ridicolous treatments) dont exist. Hopefully this survey can open their eyes to what is a behind the close door/when your at the bar big huge JOKE.

 

[DocArmy]

If you ever want to vomit with rage, get online and look at what your faculty get paid. If you're at a public school, then the payroll is public record. Our OMM faculty make a s***ton of money to spread the gospel. One of them makes ~$275,000 a year to teach first and second years OMM and then do clinic 3 days a week. It is disgusting.

And Cranial has to go! Along with lymph pumps, chapman points, and spending more than a day learning sacral. Waste of time.

 

[hawkeye pierce]

Docarmy,
What is his/her actual specialty. If they are physical medicine and rehabilitation that is not that out of line. They are paid to do more than teach generally.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Our OMM faculty make a s***ton of money to spread the gospel. One of them makes ~$275,000 a year to teach first and second years OMM and then do clinic 3 days a week. It is disgusting.

A physician working 2 jobs for 5 days a week, full time makes 275k and you're disgusted??? Confused. I'd say a huge chunk of physicians do this year after year, and I don't see any revolt against the dermatologists and radiologists of the world.

Furthermore, if this OMM guru set him/herself up right, they could make this doing some type of cash based OMM or mixed OMM/FP practice regardless, so I don't see this as some gross injustice.

Additionally, it would be interesting to see how much the OMM clinic brings in for the outpatient center which I'm sure is associated with the overall university. It's probably justified, and I have far, far less problem with a DO working two jobs, educating students in a required course, and working the clinic making 275k than I do with some of the higher up admins making 7 figures.

 

[HealingDoc]

Like somoene said before...this isnt about OMM. It's about cranial. And judging just from my class alone that whenever we get behind close doors the majority of students are making a joke about it, I think that should be relevant to the AOA. And judging from the trend that more DO's are going into allopathic residencies, it's no wonder why. Because the AOA likes to pretend issues that matter to students (like unproven, ridicolous treatments) dont exist. Hopefully this survey can open their eyes to what is a behind the close door/when your at the bar big huge JOKE.

I am aware that the thread is about cranial and not OMM in general- I was responding to the pre-med who made a general statement about OMM and our graduates.

 

[peoplespeep]

HealingDoc...your rants make you seem like some osteopathic mole [or troll] on SDN. Why would you ever want to interject your opinions on why a pre-osteopathic student questions OMT. From what I can gather this individual already has better critical thinking skills than you...boom roasted.

*A vast number [a majority] of students at my school [and others] did not choose to attend an osteopathic school based on OMT or an Osteopathetic philosophy. They simply chose a medical school so they could become a physician. As a paying customer for my education I feel the responsibility to voice my opinion on something that is bogus. As a future doc, with the title of DO, I feel it's my obligation to try and disassociate from the quackery. And to persuade others to do so as well.

*As far as OMT being evidence based...it's not [refer to post on "Evidence based medicine" by healing doc]. Please make the distinction between evidence and quality evidence. Repeatable, reliable research to boot! Discount most research you read from the JAOA...I'm far from sure that the Osteopathic realm is on the verge of obtaining massive amounts of federal funding. Do you know how hard that is? Besides, it may be hard to get a grant studying a technique that does not actually have indications [in real life, not OMT world] or tangible outcomes. Just citing some research may get a bright eyed OMT believer wet...but not peeps like me.

Choose to believe in it, it just might float your boat...I just don't want to hear about it.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I just don't want to hear about it.

Not opening threads with words like 'osteopathy' and 'OMM' in the titles might be a good place to start then.

 

[hawkeye pierce]

peoplespeep,
As a consumer, you should have realized you would have been learning omt. If you did not want to learn it, go MD.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

HealingDoc...your rants make you seem like some osteopathic mole [or troll] on SDN. Why would you ever want to interject your opinions on why a pre-osteopathic student questions OMT. From what I can gather this individual already has better critical thinking skills than you...boom roasted.

*A vast number [a majority] of students at my school [and others] did not choose to attend an osteopathic school based on OMT or an Osteopathetic philosophy. They simply chose a medical school so they could become a physician. As a paying customer for my education I feel the responsibility to voice my opinion on something that is bogus. As a future doc, with the title of DO, I feel it's my obligation to try and disassociate from the quackery. And to persuade others to do so as well.

*As far as OMT being evidence based...it's not [refer to post on "Evidence based medicine" by healing doc]. Please make the distinction between evidence and quality evidence. Repeatable, reliable research to boot! Discount most research you read from the JAOA...I'm far from sure that the Osteopathic realm is on the verge of obtaining massive amounts of federal funding. Do you know how hard that is? Besides, it may be hard to get a grant studying a technique that does not actually have indications [in real life, not OMT world] or tangible outcomes. Just citing some research may get a bright eyed OMT believer wet...but not peeps like me.

Choose to believe in it, it just might float your boat...I just don't want to hear about it.

You should take up meditation...so much anger

 

[tiders]

Intro to cranial this morning. Verbatim I was told that I was too grounded in logic and reason and that was a hinderance to my palpation. I was then told that I was a tree and my roots were solid but I needed to spread my leaves...

 

[Pegasus1731]

For some reason, what crossed my mind at the time was the poster that hung behind Mulder's desk on the X-files: "I want to believe!" Print that over a portrait of A.T. Still and I think someone's OMM club could have a sweet little fundraiser selling posters. You can thank me later.

 

[DrWBD]

peoplespeep,
As a consumer, you should have realized you would have been learning omt. If you did not want to learn it, go MD.

You should realize that you are training to become a physician. That implies some degree of adherence to evidence-based practice.

If you feel that the use of manipulation justifies itself without good evidence/data, you should have become a chiropractor.

 

[Hochries]

Healingdoc makes sense. Please listen to this person.

To those of you who "BS" your way through the interview, please know that i was admitted into my program because of blunt-diplomatic honesty during the interview.

I am a DO student. I do use OMM. People thank me when i try to decrease pain or suffering. I am not an experienced practitioner by any means. And since i am focusing on surgery, probably won't attain any level of OMM proficiency.
But there are a few techniques that come in 'handy' and am very glad that i've learned them. One thing I like to do is treat Allopathic med students and residents i encounter on rotation. Everyone appreciates some muscle energy on the low back after 6 hours on your feet at a open heart operation. One can never fail with the suboccipital release. I do NOT use cranial techniques. But when my head is throbbing after a 30 hour surgical call, i definitely accept cranial treatments. I am so thankful that there are those who enjoy cranial. They are probably thankful that there are those like me that enjoy surgery.
I do not like cranial test questions. I get them wrong. I also want them off the boards. But if they are on the boards, i will commit time to studying the questions and once again rocking my boards like John Holmes rocked fine cinema.
Cheers

 

[gatorfann14]

Healingdoc makes sense. Please listen to this person.

To those of you who "BS" your way through the interview, please know that i was admitted into my program because of blunt-diplomatic honesty during the interview.

I am a DO student. I do use OMM. People thank me when i try to decrease pain or suffering. I am not an experienced practitioner by any means. And since i am focusing on surgery, probably won't attain any level of OMM proficiency.
But there are a few techniques that come in 'handy' and am very glad that i've learned them. One thing I like to do is treat Allopathic med students and residents i encounter on rotation. Everyone appreciates some muscle energy on the low back after 6 hours on your feet at a open heart operation. One can never fail with the suboccipital release. I do NOT use cranial techniques. But when my head is throbbing after a 30 hour surgical call, i definitely accept cranial treatments. I am so thankful that there are those who enjoy cranial. They are probably thankful that there are those like me that enjoy surgery.
I do not like cranial test questions. I get them wrong. I also want them off the boards. But if they are on the boards, i will commit time to studying the questions and once again rocking my boards like John Holmes rocked fine cinema.
Cheers

EPIC post for amazing use of John Holmes reference

 

[hawkeye pierce]

DO's learn manipulation. If you went into DO school thinking you would not, then you did not do your homework.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

You should realize that you are training to become a physician. That implies some degree of adherence to evidence-based practice.

If you feel that the use of manipulation justifies itself without good evidence/data, you should have become a chiropractor.

I still for the life of me can't figure out why you haven't changed your screen name to "wanna_be_md"...is it because of the irony that is exuded everytime you post?

 

[willen101383]

DO's learn manipulation. If you went into DO school thinking you would not, then you did not do your homework.

I think most DO students enter DO school with an open mind regarding OMM. I know I did. But when you gain ample experience with OMM are you not allowed to call BS when you see it? There are some OMM modalities that work. There are plenty of OMM modalities that may or may not work. The point is: in most cases there are better treatments out there than using OMM. We arent treating patients with calomel anymore.

I think the hatred comes from the way that OMM is taught. I think everyone should be required to start taking OMM and then should be allowed to opt in or out. Once you decide that you dont really enjoy OMM and dont see yourself using it as an attending...but are forced to continue to learn it you become jaded and your hatred builds. Take rotations for example. You may hate OBGYN. You have your rotation and if you dont like it you are done. If you had to continue to train in OB for the remainder of your career youd be pretty pissed and jaded too.


So premeds keep an open mind...but dont hate on med students/attendings/residents who have trained in OMM and decide that it is not for them.

 

[cyclohexanol]

I think most DO students enter DO school with an open mind regarding OMM. I know I did. But when you gain ample experience with OMM are you not allowed to call BS when you see it? There are some OMM modalities that work. There are plenty of OMM modalities that may or may not work. The point is: in most cases there are better treatments out there than using OMM. We arent treating patients with calomel anymore.

I think the hatred comes from the way that OMM is taught. I think everyone should be required to start taking OMM and then should be allowed to opt in or out. Once you decide that you dont really enjoy OMM and dont see yourself using it as an attending...but are forced to continue to learn it you become jaded and your hatred builds. Take rotations for example. You may hate OBGYN. You have your rotation and if you dont like it you are done. If you had to continue to train in OB for the remainder of your career youd be pretty pissed and jaded too.


So premeds keep an open mind...but dont hate on med students/attendings/residents who have trained in OMM and decide that it is not for them.

epic truth in this post.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

I think most DO students enter DO school with an open mind regarding OMM. I know I did. But when you gain ample experience with OMM are you not allowed to call BS when you see it? There are some OMM modalities that work. There are plenty of OMM modalities that may or may not work. The point is: in most cases there are better treatments out there than using OMM. We arent treating patients with calomel anymore.

I think the hatred comes from the way that OMM is taught. I think everyone should be required to start taking OMM and then should be allowed to opt in or out. Once you decide that you dont really enjoy OMM and dont see yourself using it as an attending...but are forced to continue to learn it you become jaded and your hatred builds. Take rotations for example. You may hate OBGYN. You have your rotation and if you dont like it you are done. If you had to continue to train in OB for the remainder of your career youd be pretty pissed and jaded too.


So premeds keep an open mind...but dont hate on med students/attendings/residents who have trained in OMM and decide that it is not for them.

Gonna agree with this. But I would hope those who trained in OMM and have found usefulness from it also would not be hated on. Alas, the internet does not allow peace and tranquility

 

[hawkeye pierce]

The guy I was refering to was saying that all manipulation is not evidence based. How many hours of experience do you recieve in OB/gyn at your school(include hours covered in first 2 years)? How many hours do you recieve training in OMM. I know most schools do not seem to require a rotation. I'm simply saying don't whine about learning omm when YOU CHOSE to attend a school that you knew would teach it. If you wanted to avoid OMM go to an MD school. If you were not smart enough to do so go caribbean ( i know you already made the mistake).

 

[JaggerPlate]

I still for the life of me can't figure out why you haven't changed your screen name to "wanna_be_md"...is it because of the irony that is exuded everytime you post?

Lol.

I think most DO students enter DO school with an open mind regarding OMM. I know I did. But when you gain ample experience with OMM are you not allowed to call BS when you see it? There are some OMM modalities that work. There are plenty of OMM modalities that may or may not work. The point is: in most cases there are better treatments out there than using OMM. We arent treating patients with calomel anymore.

I think the hatred comes from the way that OMM is taught. I think everyone should be required to start taking OMM and then should be allowed to opt in or out. Once you decide that you dont really enjoy OMM and dont see yourself using it as an attending...but are forced to continue to learn it you become jaded and your hatred builds. Take rotations for example. You may hate OBGYN. You have your rotation and if you dont like it you are done. If you had to continue to train in OB for the remainder of your career youd be pretty pissed and jaded too.


So premeds keep an open mind...but dont hate on med students/attendings/residents who have trained in OMM and decide that it is not for them.

Good post. I don't fault ANYONE who came into DO school with an open mind about OMM and didn't end up liking it. It's like any other subject in school. Some people think they will love anatomy and hate biochemistry, and end up cursing Frank Netter and really enjoy biochem. It doesn't mean they are some type of sellout or insufficient DO, they just tried something, it did or did not appeal to them, and they adjusted their POV accordingly.

Additionally, I could write for a lonngggg time about the 'way it's taught' and why I feel like it turns a lot of students off quickly.