Getting an MD after Pharm.D?

[nparikh84]

Is it possible/how long would it take to complete an MD program AFTER finishing off the Pharm.D?

thanks

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[Caverject]

I have a feeling this thread is about to get really nasty

 

[PharmD4Me]

I would think another 4 years. You might get credit for certain classes, like ones pertaining to pharmacy, but thats probably it.

As far as a school offering a joint degree, I know of none.

 

[Trancelucent1]

My friend who is a current pharmacy student with me is planning on going to med school when he's done. He intentionally went to pharmacy school first because he didn't feel like he was ready to got med school and he only had his AA. He's doing well in pharmacy school and is still planning on med school after 1 year of pharmacy school.

 

[bananaface]

You would complete the MD at the same rate as your peers. An MD is 4 years, then you have the required residency which can be like 3-7 years more.

 

[BMBiology]

I think it is a waste of timing getting an pharm.d. then an m.d (4 years of pharmacy, 4 years of medicine, then at least another 3 years of residency = 11 years!!). I dont think you are going to impress medical school admissions either by getting a pharm.d. because it only shows your indecisiveness.

If you want to go into medicine but don't have the grades or experiences, then I would suggest that you apply for a post bac program, get some experiences, do well on the mcat, then apply to medical schools. This is a better route. Not only will you be doing a disservice to yourself and the profession by going to pharmacy school first, but it will not help you get into medical schools.

BTW, a family physician makes as much as a pharmacist in california after malpractice insurance.

 

[szrokkhmer]

If you were in pharmacy for the money, then there is no point in going to school further. Pharmacy will pay more than adequate. However if you were always interested in being a doctor and went into pharmacy for whatever reason, then fulfilling your goal of going to medical school is not a bad idea. In fact, I have heard of many pharmacists pursuing other degrees.

I don't think that going to pharmacy school before medical school reflects indecisiveness. In fact, i think it is more indicative of maturity; especially when one considers the extra decade of commitment involved in pursuing an MD/DO degree.

Additionally, pharmacy classes will help a great deal in medical school.

Best regards....

 

[tupac_don]

I think it is a waste of timing getting an pharm.d. then an m.d (4 years of pharmacy, 4 years of medicine, then at least another 3 years of residency = 11 years!!). I dont think you are going to impress medical school admissions either by getting a pharm.d. because it only shows your indecisiveness.

If you want to go into medicine but don't have the grades or experiences, then I would suggest that you apply for a post bac program, get some experiences, do well on the mcat, then apply to medical schools. This is a better route. Not only will you be doing a disservice to yourself and the profession by going to pharmacy school first, but it will not help you get into medical schools.

BTW, a family physician makes as much as a pharmacist in california after malpractice insurance.

No wrong, going to pharmacy school will help you get into medical school. Especially if you get solid grades in pharmacy school. Why many people say that pharmacy does not help is that on general people do worse in pharmacy school so their avg drops. At that point they are not competitive with a 3.0 avg against someone from undergrad with 3.9. But someone with a pharm D and a solid avg like 3.7+ in pharmacy school and a decent MCAT say 30 is a shoe in for med school. After all you are just building upon your knowledge. Plus with a pharmacy degree you have a solid job in your hands when you are done. If for some reason or other med school does not pan out, you still have your pharmacy professional degree. With Post Bacc you pretty much have just a good base to go on do something else, get in another professional school or go and do PhD or Masters.

Job of a pharmacist is definetly less stressful, and you have more free time. But it really depends what you want. I hear plumbers make a pretty good living. But I don't see people rushing into that business. In the end its about preference interest, and like outside of money only. Plus you cannot say that someone is doing a deservice to pharmacy profession if anything he is doing a service to the profession b/c after pharmacy school he will be indoctrinated in one respect in med school in another. You are bound to retain certain beliefs from your first profession (pharmacy). As well on general pharm D's who went on to get an MD are more receptive to pharmacy and actively support it once they become attendings. So I completely disagree with you I think it enchances you professionally and it helps both professions to have an individual who is versatile like that.

Although I somewhat agree with you that purely from financial standpoint of view it might be a "waste" of time to get pharm D and then MD. Since your greatest earning potential is around mid 20's to early 30's and a pharmacist who starts at 22-23 can amass significant wealth making 100,000+/year, oppose to an MD who starts out 27-28 or more typically 33-34.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[SomeGuy]

Well, where I am, pharmacy is a 4-year program and requires just 1 year of prerequisites, while MD/dental requires at least 3 years of schooling to get a shot of acceptance. Some places are already going to require 4 years to apply.

So, around here, a pharmacy program could pretty much be your pre-med/dental stuff, so you really aren't wasting time at all. The first couple years of pharmacy include your dental/MD prereqs as well.

If you eventually graduate from pharmacy school and then go into MD/dental, you can make quite a bit of money just working weekends, far more than anyone with a bio/biochem/chem degree would while in MD/dental school.

I think that being in a pharmacy program or graduating from one would make a candidate look better in front of the adcoms. They, around here anyway, seem to like it when a paramedic, lifeguard or nurse applies, because they already have a lot of the background knowledge, vast clinical experience and directly show their desire to work with people.

I don't see why a pharmacist would be treated any differently, other than the fact that they make more than other non-med/dental med professions. Someone explain this one to me.

Applying as a pharmacist also shows that you're not really in it for the money (not in the short term anyway), but rather in for more humanitarian reasons.

(Obviously, in the USA, with its 2 years of prereqs and higher earnings amongst pharmacists, things are a bit different)

 

[BMBiology]

Applying as a pharmacist also shows that you're not really in it for the money (not in the short term anyway), but rather in for more humanitarian reasons.

It sounds like you are not from the U.S but you are ridiculously wrong if you think people who apply to dental/medical schools are not into money/status. Is that why so many want to go into cosmetic denistry and so many want to go into derm?

I dont have any thing against people who decide to into medicine after pharmacy school but I think it is a better route to do a post bac and improve your grades, study for the mcat, and apply to medical schools. If you are using pharmacy as a stepping stone for medical school and do not get in when medicine is your calling, I can assure that you are going to hate it. Pharmacy is very different from medicine.

 

[SomeGuy]

What I meant was that if you were dead set on becoming a physician as a get rich quick scheme, becoming a pharmacist first wouldn't be the best/easy/efficient way of doing it in terms of time and money (depending on where you go to school).

Considering a pharmacist's earning power and early entry into the labour market, the income-earned breakeven point between becoming a physician and becoming a pharmacist is rather late in life. Applying as a pharmacist means you're willing to turn away several years of earning power at $90k+ to pay $20k+ in order to become an MD. As you can see, its not all that worth it money-wise, except many years after the fact. But if having an "MD" next to your name is your dream and you actually enjoy it, it can easily be sentimentally worth the tidal changes in income (hence my perceived humanitarian component).

But I agree, its a somewhat weak point.

I won't argue the fact that many applicants for med/dental/pharm school are in it completely for the money, and the adcoms try to screen that out (especially for med). In the end, its all a matter of games, hiding the negative parts about yourself while exhibiting the positive, which I'm sure many do very well.

As much as pharmacy is different from medicine (either in study or as an occupation), med/dental/pharm adcoms still like to see medical professionals. Pharmacy would presumably have the same advantage. I don't think nursing or paramedicine are all that similar to medicine (either in study or as an occupation), just like pharmacy, but it certainly beats many/most other areas of work/study on an admissions application.

 

[dgroulx]

Well, where I am, pharmacy is a 4-year program and requires just 1 year of prerequisites, while MD/dental requires at least 3 years of schooling to get a shot of acceptance. Some places are already going to require 4 years to apply.

Where are you from and what are the pharmacy prerequisites for where you live? I'm just curious. My pharmacy prereqs were the same as med school prereqs.

 

[lord999]

Ah, unfortunately not. Pharmacists have had traditionally the lowest admission rates of ANY first degree into medicine (~33% of the ALREADY self-selected candidates). I will not comment whether it is a grades issue or a profession issue. I can say that certain universities like Michigan have an explicit rule about applying to another professional school when professional training was recently acquired.

I really don't have an opinion on the subject, but be really prepared for an interesting time. I know at least Pilot went through both programs. I personally do not see any incongruency between wanting to be a pharmacist and a physician. However, if you're doing it for money, there are probably better ways to spend your time (Finance, Law, Actuarial, R&D) than medicine. If you want real power over the (I want to be the one who intervenes), then you really don't have a choice than to go to medicine. Pharmacists are and will still be auxilaries in terms of patient care. They don't initiate care, they only followthrough.

I'm personally proud of my training as a pharmacist. Originally, I did seriously consider medicine, but I found out that I'm also too scared to be the one who intervenes. The responsibility is just not something that I can shoulder...

No wrong, going to pharmacy school will help you get into medical school. Especially if you get solid grades in pharmacy school. Why many people say that pharmacy does not help is that on general people do worse in pharmacy school so their avg drops. At that point they are not competitive with a 3.0 avg against someone from undergrad with 3.9. But someone with a pharm D and a solid avg like 3.7+ in pharmacy school and a decent MCAT say 30 is a shoe in for med school. After all you are just building upon your knowledge. Plus with a pharmacy degree you have a solid job in your hands when you are done. If for some reason or other med school does not pan out, you still have your pharmacy professional degree. With Post Bacc you pretty much have just a good base to go on do something else, get in another professional school or go and do PhD or Masters.

Job of a pharmacist is definetly less stressful, and you have more free time. But it really depends what you want. I hear plumbers make a pretty good living. But I don't see people rushing into that business. In the end its about preference interest, and like outside of money only. Plus you cannot say that someone is doing a deservice to pharmacy profession if anything he is doing a service to the profession b/c after pharmacy school he will be indoctrinated in one respect in med school in another. You are bound to retain certain beliefs from your first profession (pharmacy). As well on general pharm D's who went on to get an MD are more receptive to pharmacy and actively support it once they become attendings. So I completely disagree with you I think it enchances you professionally and it helps both professions to have an individual who is versatile like that.

Although I somewhat agree with you that purely from financial standpoint of view it might be a "waste" of time to get pharm D and then MD. Since your greatest earning potential is around mid 20's to early 30's and a pharmacist who starts at 22-23 can amass significant wealth making 100,000+/year, oppose to an MD who starts out 27-28 or more typically 33-34.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[SomeGuy]

I'm in Canada.

Seems most med schools require about 1 year of basic courses like chem/phys/bio and a social science/arts course. Some (respectable even) schools have no prerequisite courses and don't look at MCAT scores. But they all require at least 2-4 years of schooling to apply, and most people don't get in with that minimum.

Around here, having a 33% chance of getting into med school, all other things being equal, is actually pretty good

The 2 dental schools I researched have about 2 years of course prerequisites, but once again, you rarely get in without an undergrad degree or higher.

My particular pharmacy program had the following prerequisites: 1 year of uni bio, 1 year of uni chem, 1 year of uni or gr. 12 physics, 1 year of calculus (who knows why), 1year of social science/humanities at the university level, and a credit in a gr. 12 social science/humanities. Other pharmacy programs usually have similar math and science requirements, but may require an english or business instead of social science.

So I'm 19 and going into pharmacy school

Note: We're still on the BSc.Phm system, though it looks like we're going to move to a non-research based PharmD in the next couple years. I really don't know why they didn't change when the USA did, it seemed up until that change the two systems were identical.

However, if you're doing it for money, there are probably better ways to spend your time (Finance, Law, Actuarial, R&D) than medicine.

Well, the thing is, if you go into medicine, you can very easily get work with good money the day you finish your residency. In the other fields you mentioned, you have to really make a name for yourself before you make the big bucks. It can take a while to make a name for yourself, if you ever, its risky. If you go into medicine, you're pretty much guaranteed to make good money in a predictable timeframe, such is not the case with finance/law/actuarial science/R&D.

Around here, even if you go into family medicine, where you have to find clients, your job will not be too difficult since in Ontario, even medium-large cities are in a major shortage situation. As well, my actuarial skills tell me that this shortage situation isn't going to improve with the aging of the general population, including the doctors praticing.

 

[chedrick]

I'm starting my 3rd year of pharmacy school this fall and am going to be applying to medical school during my 4th year of rotations. I've always known I wanted to go to pharmacy and medical school. I've really enjoyed pharmacy school, but be prepared to take extra courses if you decide to go the pharm/med route. My pharmacy school didn't require physics, so I've had to take 2 semesters during the summer. I also have taken extra biology courses since some of the medical schools wouldn't accept by medical based biology (hist, immuno, phys, microbio).

Working in a pharmacy has made me want to go to medical school that much more. Not because I don't like pharmacy (because I do), but more due to the fact that I want more control over whats happening to my patient. I want to be a family practice doctor is an underserved area. I want to be able to give my patients the best treatment as well as be cost effective. I spend half my day calling offices and insurances trying to get coverage and changes for expensive meds that could have cheaper alternatives that are just as effective. How can you expect a patient to be compliant if they can't afford to buy the med? Don't give a patient samples for 2 months then say hey you can now pay $150 a month of your social security, sorry the drug rep didn't come by this week. Sorry, I will get off my soap box, bad day at work. Even if I do graduate from medical school, I'll always be proud to be a pharmacist.

I'll end with, do what you want, its your money, your life, your degree(s).

 

[Caverject]

I'm starting my 3rd year of pharmacy school this fall and am going to be applying to medical school during my 4th year of rotations. I've always known I wanted to go to pharmacy and medical school. I've really enjoyed pharmacy school, but be prepared to take extra courses if you decide to go the pharm/med route. My pharmacy school didn't require physics, so I've had to take 2 semesters during the summer. I also have taken extra biology courses since some of the medical schools wouldn't accept by medical based biology (hist, immuno, phys, microbio).

Working in a pharmacy has made me want to go to medical school that much more. Not because I don't like pharmacy (because I do), but more due to the fact that I want more control over whats happening to my patient. I want to be a family practice doctor is an underserved area. I want to be able to give my patients the best treatment as well as be cost effective. I spend half my day calling offices and insurances trying to get coverage and changes for expensive meds that could have cheaper alternatives that are just as effective. How can you expect a patient to be compliant if they can't afford to buy the med? Don't give a patient samples for 2 months then say hey you can now pay $150 a month of your social security, sorry the drug rep didn't come by this week. Sorry, I will get off my soap box, bad day at work. Even if I do graduate from medical school, I'll always be proud to be a pharmacist.

I'll end with, do what you want, its your money, your life, your degree(s).

how do you plan on gaining more control?

 

[bananaface]

how do you plan on gaining more control?

Managing his own patients.

 

[chedrick]

how do you plan on gaining more control?

I probably shouldn't have used the word control. I like the idea that I would have the ability to diagnose as well as prescribe for my patients. I don't know if I'm making any sense now.

 

[OoShimmeroO]

I think the Pharmacy School to Medical School route is more common for students that are in six year pharmacy programs or pharmacists that earned BS degrees in Pharmacy. I can't imagine someone doing 4 years undergrad, 4 years pharm school, 4 years med school, 2+ years of residency, and on top of that say "well, my main intention from the very start was to go to medical school."

 

[tupac_don]

I probably shouldn't have used the word control. I like the idea that I would have the ability to diagnose as well as prescribe for my patients. I don't know if I'm making any sense now.

I think the word you are looking for is autonomy. As a doctor you would have more autonomy and say in pts course of treatment.

 

[kristakoch]

WHen I was on my peds rotation last month, the best attending there was a pharmacist before being a doctor. There are at least 2 people from my calss (graduating this year) that are heading to MD (or DO) school. I think the MDs who are pharmacistst first provide some of the best care because they know a lot more about each drug, more than most MDs know. I knew I never had to check over that one attending's orders, he always had the right drug, etc. And I think Mds who are pharmacists first are more willing to ask the pharmacy for help, use them when possible, etc.

 

[ChemAngel]

it can be done...but it is like killing an ant with a bazooka.

First off...your loan is going to be huge!! at least $200,000.

Second....if pharmacy wasn't for you, than settling for it is doing a misjustice. There are so many people in pharmacy school that just settled for it...and it shows. They don't take pride in their work. It's 4 years of your life. I think it would be better to get a bachelors or even a masters in a science (ie anatomy) work on your MCAT, and apply to the school of you choice.

Third.... that person that is going into pharmacy school that isn't interested in it....is taking away a spot of someone who really DOES want to be a pharmacist but didn't get in.


Fourth.....that's alot of years of school. 4 years pharmacy plus 4 years of Medical plus 2 years internship plus any years for if you are specializing.... Even if you started at the tender age of 20...you 'd be done well into your 30s.


But the wonderful part about the US is our ability to be able to do whatever we want. If that person feels that being a pharmacist first is going to help him become a better doctor...than he has a right to think that.

I just don't have that much time and energy

 

[ultracet]

we have a student doing a joint pharmd/PA program

 

[DownonthePharm]

we have a student doing a joint pharmd/PA program

The idea of going to medical school for onehundredzillion years after my pharmD is frightening but that actually sounds like it wouldnt be too bad. You could be your own complete clinic.

 

[zedpol]

The idea of going to medical school for onehundredzillion years after my pharmD is frightening but that actually sounds like it wouldnt be too bad. You could be your own complete clinic.

I left my pharm school to go to med school. I don't regret it at all but i think pharmacy remains a great profession, just not for me. I wouldn't go into pharmacy school if you plan on going to med school though. In my case I never realized I wanted to be in medicine until I got into the hospital as a pharmacy intern.
z

 

[Doc4Life]

Ah, unfortunately not. Pharmacists have had traditionally the lowest admission rates of ANY first degree into medicine (~33% of the ALREADY self-selected candidates). I will not comment whether it is a grades issue or a profession issue. I can say that certain universities like Michigan have an explicit rule about applying to another professional school when professional training was recently acquired.

I really don't have an opinion on the subject, but be really prepared for an interesting time. I know at least Pilot went through both programs. I personally do not see any incongruency between wanting to be a pharmacist and a physician. However, if you're doing it for money, there are probably better ways to spend your time (Finance, Law, Actuarial, R&D) than medicine. If you want real power over the (I want to be the one who intervenes), then you really don't have a choice than to go to medicine. Pharmacists are and will still be auxilaries in terms of patient care. They don't initiate care, they only followthrough.

I'm personally proud of my training as a pharmacist. Originally, I did seriously consider medicine, but I found out that I'm also too scared to be the one who intervenes. The responsibility is just not something that I can shoulder...

Hi. Where did you get this number from??? Less than 33%??? Are you talking about allopathic schools or osteopathic schools??? Please do comment if you think that this is a grade issue or a profession issue. I'm a pharmacy student who all my life wanted to go to med school but has felt that the education in pharmacy is invaluable, especially since doctors only get 6 wks of pharmacology and personally, being a drug expert only brings benefits to a patient.

 

[Mags]

as bmbiology said
it just shows indecisiveness

in my opinion
if you want to go to medical school go to medical school

the way the us schools are tracked, they allow a certain number of admissions based on projections of what will be needed in the nation by the time that class graduates

for instance they upped the admissions from 89 to 94 students with our last class

if you get into pharmacy KNOWNING you're just killing time to get into medicine, you waste a spot that couldve gone to someone who wanted to be there, and we all, as a nation, as a community, lose a valuable pharmacist that was needed (according to the stats/way admissions are done)

if you want medicine, please dont bog down our pharmacy schools and staffs with you useless presence
sorry if i'm harsh but thats how i feel

 

[OSURxgirl]

What is wrong with changing your mind? Isn't changing your mind a sign that your education is working or has worked? I find it interesting that many people on these forums have a PhD (5 to 7 years of grad school) and want to go to med school and everyone seems to support them, but if a pharmacist or nurse wants to go to med school, everyone attacks them. Would you rather have an extra disgruntled and unhappy pharmacist in the workforce, or would you want that person to follow their newly discovered passion and actually make a difference?

 

[Mags]

What is wrong with changing your mind? Isn't changing your mind a sign that your education is working or has worked? I find it interesting that many people on these forums have a PhD (5 to 7 years of grad school) and want to go to med school and everyone seems to support them, but if a pharmacist or nurse wants to go to med school, everyone attacks them. Would you rather have an extra disgruntled and unhappy pharmacist in the workforce, or would you want that person to follow their newly discovered passion and actually make a difference?

i'm not against those that change their minds
but i am against those who KNOW that they want to go to medical school
but see pharmacy school as a stepping stone, or something to kill the time with

 

[kwakster928]

i have no problem with it. if you want to be the one who will owe close to $500,000 in loans, plus interest, that would be like $600,000, and dont get to enjoy youth, go ahead and do it. for me, no way. i am so done w/ school after pharamcy school. why would you want to do that to yourself?

 

[OSURxgirl]

I may not want to do it to myself and other may not want to do it themselves. But why be mad at people who choose to do it? I think it is a minority of people who use Pharm school as a "stepping stone". I think many decide in Pharmacy school or beyond that what they really want is medicine. Either way, you have to view it in a more positive light...yes, someone may be taking away a spot from someone who "truly" wants to be a pharmacist, but it can only help patients to have MDs out there with pharmacy training. What about all the screw ups in my class who "truly" wanted to be pharmacists and partied and failed out their first year? They technically took away spots from people who would have finished the program, but I don't see anyone crucifying them for their lack of ambition. Instead, people that have the incredible ambition it would take to finish pharmacy and medical training are being tried. I don't get it.

 

[BMBiology]

No wrong, going to pharmacy school will help you get into medical school.

No, I believe you are wrong. The medical school admissions will view you either:

(1) Indecisiveness. This shows lack of direction. This may be okay when you are 22 but it may not be when you are 26 especially since you want to enter a profession that requires at least 7 years of commitment. This may not be as an important factor as your grades or mcat score, but since medical school is very competitive, it might very well be the deciding factor.

(2) Using the pharm.d degree as a stepping stone to medical school. It will be pretty obvious when they see your undergrad grades. This is definately questionable especially since there is such a stortage of pharmacists. If you are okay to do this to a profession, what would you do to your patients for your own personal gain?

Trust me when I say this, you will be questioned why you went into pharmacy school during the interview. You will have to waste a lot of your interview time trying to explain and defend yourself, instead of selling yourself. Admissions to medical school is extremely competitive (maybe not some DO schools) and therefore, every factors is important.

 

[OSURxgirl]

Could you be more dramatic? Going to pharmacy school before med school automatically makes someone a heinous person who might harm their patients ? I would argue that all pre-meds (not just those who go to pharm school) are out for their own personal gain in the competition to get into med school. Do you think pre-meds rack up all those volunteer hours and join all of those clubs out of the goodness of their hearts??? Do you think they do research projects because of their "deep undying passion for science"? Come on. When it comes to careers, it is a competitive world out there, and self interest is vital to one's survival. Again, as I mentioned earlier, a dually trained pharmacist-physician would be more of an asset to patients than a liability. Money would be saved, patient time would be saved, and patient outcomes would be better if more physicians had pharmacy backgrounds.

 

[BMBiology]

I like the fact that you spoke for me but unfortunately, you missed the whole point.

It is okay to "prove yourself" by doing research and volunteering, but it is NOT okay to take away a seat in pharmacy school especially when there is a major stortage so you can personally benefit from it. Not only are you doing a disservice to the profession but the community as well. I hope you understand the difference. If you do not see a problem with this, then I would have to seriously question you. I wonder what lies did you tell the pharmacy admissions committee when you applied for pharmacy schools? I am sure the medical admissions committee would wonder the same thing too.

I am not saying it is impossible to go into medicine after pharmacy school but it is simply not a practical and ethnical route. If you dont have the grades, then why not do a post bac program, study hard for the mcat, then apply? This is not only a practical route but easier as well. Pharmacy school is naturally more competitive. It is not easy to study for the mcat while doing your pharmacy rotation and intern hours at the same time.

 

[BMBiology]

a dually trained pharmacist-physician would be more of an asset to patients than a liability. Money would be saved, patient time would be saved, and patient outcomes would be better if more physicians had pharmacy backgrounds.

If you honestly believe this, shouldn't you preach it to the medical schools to include more pharmacology in their program? Isn't this more practical?

 

[ultracet]

i honestly don't care if a student "takes away" a spot from another who "really wants to practice"

i mean the same could be said for many many people who want to work part time or not at all......


the way i feel about it.....

if you're not qualified enough to get in over another perhaps you don't need to be there.

i'm not saying that you should quit after one try. i'm saying that if you have done everything in your power to get in (retaken all your classes etc) and still don't then maybe pharmacy isn't for you....


i had quite a few people in my class during orientation who DID NOT need to be there...

needless to say... they are no longer in my class or in school for several of them.

 

[BMBiology]

i honestly don't care if a student "takes away" a spot from another who "really wants to practice"

Too bad you dont care much about the profession. I wonder those who left your school, did they even care about the profession or they just wanted to use it as a stepping stone? Can you even tell the difference? Probably not.

 

[chedrick]

I am not saying it is impossible to go into medicine after pharmacy school but it is simply not a practical and ethnical route.

Unethical? I told my pharmacy admissions counselors before I was even accepted that I wanted to be a pharmacist and a physician, and they didn't have any problem with the idea. I've never heard anyone refer to it as unethical before. I know pharmacists who are lawyers, professors, scientists, physicians, managers, authors, and stay at home dads/moms. Just because they don't practice is a traditional fashion doesn't mean they don't respect their education and the profession of pharmacy.

 

[Sosumi]

Unethical? I told my pharmacy admissions counselors before I was even accepted that I wanted to be a pharmacist and a physician, and they didn't have any problem with the idea. I've never heard anyone refer to it as unethical before. I know pharmacists who are lawyers, professors, scientists, physicians, managers, authors, and stay at home dads/moms. Just because they don't practice is a traditional fashion doesn't mean they don't respect their education and the profession of pharmacy.

Well that sounds like an exception. When I went to graduate school interviews and pharmacy school interviews, one of the first things they ask me is "Why not medical school?" When I did interviews, it's one of the questions they want you to ask prospective students in order to weed them out. They do not want to waste their time and resources on someone who does not want to end up being a pharmacist and helping the school and profession.

As BMBiology says, I suspect some deception occurs for some students who want to use pharmacy school as a stepping stone to medical school.

 

[ultracet]

Too bad you dont care much about the profession. I wonder those who left your school, did they even care about the profession or they just wanted to use it as a stepping stone? Can you even tell the difference? Probably not.

you make me laugh

I don't care about the profession? PLEASE!

the people who left my school DID care about being a pharmacist... HOWEVER they were not smart enough to cut it.

that is my point.

what difference does it make if there are people out there wanting to make it a stepping stone.... all you have to do is be a better applicant than they are and you will get in.

Can i tell the difference between people who are too stupid to be in pharmacy school and those who want to use it as a stepping stone? Why Yes! In fact I can!

I honestly would rather have people in pharmacy school who are planning on going to med school than the people who flunk out.


Too bad you don't care enough about the profession to want only the best and the brighest!

 

[BMBiology]

I dont understand why you are clustering people who cannot make it with people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone, and explain why you would prefer the latter. These 2 groups have nothing to do with each other and doesn't dismiss the fact that people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone are hurting the profession.

I dont understand your rationality. I am not going to explain why your rationality is not practical or even why it doesn't even make sense. I dont have the time.

 

[BMBiology]

I know a couple of pharmacy students that want to use pharmacy as a stepping stone. They have the attitude that they are better and they are only doing it to "better" their career at the expense of the profession of pharmacy. I am really disguised by their attitude and how they look down on the profession. Not only that, they are not in pharmacy school to learn the material but to get the highest grades possible because that is their objective.

These people are not only doing a disservice to the profession but to their classmates as well. These 2 are now just mediocre students in my class. I guess they didnt realize that many of us chose pharmacy not because our grades were sub-par to the medical students but because we want to. I am also not surprised that they are not doing well in pharmacy school because pharmacy simply does not excite them; it is not what they want to do. I am kinda glad but at the same time I also pity them because now they have to do something they hate for the rest of their lives.

 

[ultracet]

I dont understand why you are clustering people who cannot make it with people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone, and explain why you would prefer the latter. These 2 groups have nothing to do with each other and doesn't dismiss the fact that people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone are hurting the profession.

I dont understand your rationality. I am not going to explain why your rationality is not practical or even why it doesn't even make sense. I dont have the time.

haven't lumped them in the same group

i'm saying i personally would prefer people in pharmacy school who can actually make it through the curriculum.

I'm also saying that I don't care if people apply to pharmacy school to use it as a stepping stone. Its a long road a head of them but if that's what they want to do then fine.... The people who deserve to be in pharmacy school will still be there.

I honestly don't see how people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone hurts the profession.

Are you saying that because it "takes up someone else's seat?"

or are you saying that because in your experience, since they are not passionate about the profession of pharmacy, they are not as successful as they thought they would be and will probably not get into med school.. forcing them to become pharmacists?


In my opinion this "stepping stone" is not used all that often... perhaps i'm wrong...


If you are really concerned about the profession of pharmacy and its future how about taking on the people who are just going into pharmacy for the money?

and the extraordinarly apathetic group of people that are currently in pharmacy school (if you don't know any i can point you towards a few hundred).

How about the current pharmacists who complain all day long but when it comes to actually doing something about it they shy away?

Yes the minority of people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone do fall into this category for the profession but the vast majority of this group is not going to med school.

 

[Doc4Life]

haven't lumped them in the same group

i'm saying i personally would prefer people in pharmacy school who can actually make it through the curriculum.

I'm also saying that I don't care if people apply to pharmacy school to use it as a stepping stone. Its a long road a head of them but if that's what they want to do then fine.... The people who deserve to be in pharmacy school will still be there.

I honestly don't see how people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone hurts the profession.

Are you saying that because it "takes up someone else's seat?"

or are you saying that because in your experience, since they are not passionate about the profession of pharmacy, they are not as successful as they thought they would be and will probably not get into med school.. forcing them to become pharmacists?


In my opinion this "stepping stone" is not used all that often... perhaps i'm wrong...


If you are really concerned about the profession of pharmacy and its future how about taking on the people who are just going into pharmacy for the money?

and the extraordinarly apathetic group of people that are currently in pharmacy school (if you don't know any i can point you towards a few hundred).

How about the current pharmacists who complain all day long but when it comes to actually doing something about it they shy away?

Yes the minority of people who use pharmacy as a stepping stone do fall into this category for the profession but the vast majority of this group is not going to med school.

Hi. I just want to reply to this whole thread. Wow i'm shocked this conversation is still going on. Personally, I would not say that I am using pharmacy as a stepping stone at all. I have pharmacists in my family and they love their profession. It is a great profession. Personally, my goals was to find a program that would fit my needs and would give me an intimate knowledge of medicine going in as an undergrad. Pharmacy did that for me. I understand that it is a profession like nursing or medicine or becoming a PT, but why can't a person go into a program for the shear sake of learning about something? Why does society jump to label people with titles? I'm not in it for the title, i'm in it for the great foundation in science and because I really wanted to learn the subjects and learn about the profession. People grow and may want a more broader knowledge of medicine and the ability to have their own patients, which can only happen when you are a doctor. I don't see anything wrong with people getting more education. Plenty of pharmacists.. if you must label, are pharmacist-lawyers, pharmacists and business people etc. Sometimes I feel like pharmacy could be a new liberal arts degree but only better because there are so many opportunities for pharmacists, traditional and non-traditional. I think the pharmacist-physician combo is newer but could be a great thing, think of the benefits for patients! More medication compliance, less medication errors. The people who feel the way I do, should pursue medicine and not let others discourage. I think those who feel this way are in it fully to prove to schools that you would work for another 8 years because it is something you want. Don't let people discourage you. It is possible to study for the MCATs and take pharmacotherapeutics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[emster]

Hey there If you actually just want to go to med school, you should try going into an MS/MD program. I know, for instance, that Georgetown University lets people go into a 1-year MS in Physiology. After that year, those students get to competitively apply for the MD program. It'd be quicker than going all through Pharm. Take care,
Emily

 

[tupac_don]

I may not want to do it to myself and other may not want to do it themselves. But why be mad at people who choose to do it? I think it is a minority of people who use Pharm school as a "stepping stone". I think many decide in Pharmacy school or beyond that what they really want is medicine. Either way, you have to view it in a more positive light...yes, someone may be taking away a spot from someone who "truly" wants to be a pharmacist, but it can only help patients to have MDs out there with pharmacy training. What about all the screw ups in my class who "truly" wanted to be pharmacists and partied and failed out their first year? They technically took away spots from people who would have finished the program, but I don't see anyone crucifying them for their lack of ambition. Instead, people that have the incredible ambition it would take to finish pharmacy and medical training are being tried. I don't get it.

Well spoken.

 

[aubieRx]

logically speaking

If you become and MD and a pharmD there is going to be one career you enjoy more than the other.

If you enjoy one of the careers more wouldn't your efforts be better spent by focusing all your energies on it instead of blowing four more years on something else that you basically only did to say you did it?

four years that could have been spent working in one field.

(I don't believe the line about doing it for the sake of learning. lets get real here..its a bit of intellectual vanity...science will not be aided much by having two expensive degrees and tossing one in the broom closet. )

scary math:::

Also over 10 years (assuming the average death age is 70..not sure what it really is) would place you in professional school for at least 14 percent of your life. Not to mention the 16ish years you spent in grade school and undergrad. That is another 22 percent of your life.

38 percent of your life (the young years too) in school? assuming you live to 70.

Sounds like le suck to me. I really think you should take the years of your life into consideration because it goes really quickly

but if it is your fondest dream then go for it. It just sounds silly to some people but you ought not to care what others think. i know i try not to.

 

[kwakster928]

I am assuming I am one of the minority in this issue coming from a current pharmacy school perspective. Personally, such a route, PharmD to MD has never appealed to me for one moment: one being length of training, and two being over burden amount of financial responsibility. I just cannot see my self dishing out $2000 month for 30 years, paying close to 20% principle in interest.

That being said,

I have no problem w/ any students taking this route. I can sort of see their point of view. If I wanted to be an MD, i would have taken every necessary measure to improve my stats, and if PharmD is way to get the MD, so be it, and let it be. I think these students and future MD, PharmDs will contribute to dearly to patients. Whatever the point that these students are making has some valid point. I think it is most important to see that, these future to be physicians, will understand what kind of roll a pharmacist can play in health care setting, perhaps having gone through it all, put them in different perspective than others, who actually value our services further enhancing physician and pharmaicst relationship. maybe these students can educate their collegues regarding the training of pharmacists, and how valuable we are as a profession. If that is a truely the case, i see a no problem and yet, actually will thank them for their service and efforts.

HOWEVER, if they turn out to be one of those people who put their training to the garbage can, and have no appreciation to pharamcy and become an MD, the story will be completely different and yes they seem selfish and worthless at least in my world of pharmacy.

 

[vraypharmd2md]

I am a recent pharmacy graduate and newly licensed. I am also going to be starting med school in August. I have written extremely long replies to the original post , but the stupid computers in the library seem to screw up the messages after I hit the post botton. So I will keep it simple:

1. This decision is a personal one. Make sure that it is right to you and for you.

2. Money and prestige should not be the motivation b/c both can be easily lost.

3. At this point, many "well intentioned" people will unintentionally discourage you by reminding you of what you have ahead of you. Don't listen b/c time spent doing something you do not like = time wasted (PERIOD)

4. Ask those who have tried it. Myself included.

 

[aubieRx]

Yes I agree its a personal choice and should be done for the right reasons because it is such a huge chunk of your life.

You don't want to take that chunk out of your life for the wrong reasons.

But if its what you want more than anything else go for it.

However, it still seems silly to go straight to med school from pharm school. I think the temptation to tinker in the pharmacy field first should be higher than that....if you really like pharmacy.