Getting in by "connections"

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Gumshoe

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Has anyone hear heard a story about someone that was really (seemingly) underqualified getting into med school? So many people act like the process is tamper-free, and it actually seems that way to me. Can any one person GET another IN, with little or no questions asked?


Hmmmmmmmmm... the funniest thing about this is, if it has happened, I am willing to bet the person that got in turned out to be a pretty good doctor. I stilll believe that 50-75% who apply could do the job very well (when only 5-10% is accepted at a school, per year, on avg.)

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Originally posted by Gumshoe
Has anyone hear heard a story about someone that was really (seemingly) underqualified getting into med school?
Click to expand...


It's called affirmative action. Call the University of Michigan, I hear they have a great program. :)
 
Blitz, my man, such a cynic today!!!

Obviously, I'm talking about normal but extremely questionable decisions made by committees to accept ...

well?

gumbo
 
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Kid back from undergrad: Not a rumor cuz i know the bloke.

23mcat, 3.4 got into a lower tier med school. His dad was friends with the dean(the big dean, not some lower level dean) of the med school.

~lubdubb
 
Girl got in with a 23mcat, 3.4gpa, not a URM. Her dad was on the admissions committee...:rolleyes:

She must be so proud.:D
 
I'm sure this sort of this happens quite a bit - it goes on everywhere, why would medicine be an exception? I'm sure a modest donation to the school of choice would also provide assistance in the process :)

However, in order to keep my bitterness to a minimum, I would guess connections are VERY helpful to those who already have a solid app. I worked in a lab and the prof asked me to hire a lab tech. He plopped a HUGE stack of resumes on my desk and walked off. I started going through them all, and very quickly felt like I was reading the same resume over and over and over and over. So many of the applicants were qualified - they all took similar classes and had similar activities. In a situation like this, if someone I trusted walked up to me and said - "hey, so and so is applying, why don't you give him/her an interview" I would be more likely to do so, because I would then have more of a connection to that resume (more than the others anyway).

I'm sure that looking at AMCAS apps is similar, and I'm sure that there are some written/unwritten rules discouraging this sort of thing. However, at some level the people reviewing apps are searching for a reason to select one app over another - and having a connection, in some cases, can make the difference between being in or out.

I've complained about this only because I was dying to find that winning connection!! Luckily, I managed to get in without having any (my mom and dad are in sales - no connections to anything medical!) - but, from my experience (and from watching others), working the politics can keep you from slipping through the cracks - and as we all know the med school app process has many.
 
Swingdoc is absolutely right about it being helpful if there is more of a connection to an applicant then just another 32 MCAT, 3.7 GPA, volunteered for a year in a hospital, participated in 3 clubs, has glowing letters of recommendatione applicant. Good luck and happy a$$ kissing!!:)
 
My perspective;

My mom went to Yale Med.

They felt obligated to interview me. But not to admit me.

And that's with a 36S.

New Haven is scary, wouldn't have wanted to live there any way...
 
new haven is a great place to live. my one and only complaint is the weather!!
 
I remember my dad mentioning that one of his old college buddies was some sort of Dean at Kansas. Maybe I oughtta give my dad a call...
 
It happens. I know a few people who are counting on connections and more who have successfully used them. But... at least I know I'm gonna earn it.

Right?
 
Wouldn't it be nice to know you made it in on your own merit? Besides I wouldnt want some doc working on me that "pulled strings" to get in to med school. Kind of scary--REAL scary. There's a reason its important to have top grades and a good MCAT. The MCAT puts everyone on an even playing field and is a good indicator that one will perform well on the STEPS ,and good grades show that someone is intellectually competant. Which IMHO is why affirmative action is such a huge joke. Sorry , but who would you rather have working on you--the smartest guy who knows his #$%t ---or someone who "politicked"(did I spell that right?) his way through? Ugh, makes me want to vomit. I hope to God this kind of thing does not happen and if it does I hope I am not the unfortunate one who has this kind of person as a doctor.
 
Interesting stat:

for every $1 a Caucasian man has, an African-American has 11cents, a Latino 9cents...

Hello:eek: Some do not have the money to hire a private MCAT tutor, or take a $1500-$1700 prep class...some parents do not pay for college and students have to work, this affects grades.

These same people who faced hardships and still made it are going to be better doctors than a person with high MCATs and high GPA that feels some sort of entitlement.

Humility is a wonderful thing, lil puke.:p Leave out the Affirmative Action from at least SOME of your blame for not getting into med schools people...the whole point of the program is that there aren't enough minorities out there...:rolleyes:
 
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I definitely disagree about the MCAT putting everyone on an even playing field - its a SCIENCE test. For the non-trads out there, we take probably only the 4 basic pre-med requirements. How is it an even playing field when we are competing against Bio, Physics, and Chem majors on a test that includes Bio, Physics, and Chem? Now I know that the MCAT only tests basic principles in these subjects - but would you rather take the test having taken 15 bio classes or just one?

The only thing that would level the playing field is if they made the entire thing a verbal test. That way some science geek that can't even recognize a complete sentence won't get into med school. I've seen so many doctors (having worked in a hospital, been sick, etc.) that are probably smart people, but they make HORRIBLE PHYSICIANS. Maybe they can do your blood work and analyze all the compounds in your body - but they can't look me in the eye, and they can't show compassion. The fact is - outside of surgery - lots of medicine these days is social skills, and most native English speakers without a learning disability that get 14B, 14P, 6V, I would almost guarantee that those people have no social skills. Just my .02,
 
Originally posted by TexasGuy41
The fact is - outside of surgery - lots of medicine these days is social skills, and most native English speakers without a learning disability that get 14B, 14P, 6V, I would almost guarantee that those people have no social skills. Just my .02,
Click to expand...

I agres with you up til you quote the MCAT scores. But I do not agress that a 6V= no social skills. If that's not what you meant, sorry, but feel free to clarify.

Anyway, i am sure that there are people who get into med school thru who they (or mommy/daddy) know. But I think it is a safe assumption that those are few...take the instance lubdubb cited. I think that is why there is a committee of people so that even though the underqualified person is "in" with an adcom member, it usually takes more that that to convince the rest of the adcom...of course I am giving them the benefit of the doubt.

AA is a whole different animal which has been discussed adnauseam on this site. Though I agree that there are many intelligent, hardworking URMs that cant afford the private tutors or prep classes, there are other economically disadvantaged who arent URMs and have faced hardships that dont get a fair shake either. Im not trying to start anything...just my two pennies.

Spin:D
 
Originally posted by TexasGuy41
and most native English speakers without a learning disability that get 14B, 14P, 6V, I would almost guarantee that those people have no social skills. Just my .02,
Click to expand...

Wow, that's pretty harsh. Some people are not great tests-takers or can't figure out the b.s. verbal section that the MCAT makes. That doesn't mean they don't have social skills. Also many native english speakers grow up in the ghetto and do poorly on the verbal because of lack of a good english/critical thinking education. I got a 7 on VR the first time and I would say I have pretty decent social skills. Just because someone is a "social butterfly" but doesn't know their sciences doesn't mean they should be a doctor. In today's world you need to have the whole package. I know tons of people that have great personalities but that in no instance would I want them being my doctor because messing with a person's health is serious business that requires not only personality, but also an understanding of the science of disease and how it relates to the human body.:eek:
 
i think that if you have connections...use them. for those of us that have been through the application process, we understand that this whole process is a....crapshoot. so if you have connections, use them to your advantage. this society is all about who you know.

also, this goes back to the joke of what do you call the person who graduated at the bottom of your medical school class?



DOCTOR!


Doesn't matter how you got there, just that you did.
 
Originally posted by e-spin
I agres with you up til you quote the MCAT scores. But I do not agress that a 6V= no social skills. If that's not what you meant, sorry, but feel free to clarify.
Click to expand...

Yeesh. I meant to spell "agree" correctly...I swear. i guess that is why I got a 7V. :D

Spin
 
I completely agree tms -- Use it...or lose it! (lame, I know. I just couldn't help myself).
 
I think the formation and use of connections are two skills that are incredibly important for a career in medicine. The people who make a difference on a large scale in this field are those people who can create relationships with patients, communities, high-powered academics, hospital heads, medical schools...etc.

I think it is also pretty bull**** to say that it isn't a test of ability or skill. Someone said 'I want to get in on my own merit' or something. Being charismatic and charming are skills that are every bit as important as science knowledge for being sucessful. I work in a research lab now and the doctor I work with directly is incredibly brilliant. He has a MD/PHD from Harvard and I think he got a 78 on his MCATs. He adds a lot to science and has made large advances towards curing the genetic disorder we examine.

The head of the department my doctor works in, on the other hand, is only an MD and not from a great school. He is clearly less brilliant than my doctor when it comes to science. But, as he himself brags, he can bring in the money. He is charming, quick on his feet and knows how to win people over. He pulls in millions of dollars each year that allow my brilliant scientist to work. Now which doctor would you want in your medical school? Both are great, but (like like a horse and carriage) you can't have one without the other. We need both smart, high scoring doctors, and charismatic, connection-making doctors.

Also, and this raises a much larger question, what is the goal of medical education? To produce the best doctors? But how do we judge the best doctors? By # of articles published? In this case I bet the high numbers doctors win out. By patient satisfaction? In this case, I bet the charismatic, charming doctors win out. One complaint about the field of medicine these days is the lack of compassion, and 'friendliness' of doctors. Those doctors that can easily make connections and build relationships might be just what the field needs more of.

If this seems unfair, maybe it would be helpful for you numbers oriented guys to think about connections as an MCAT for your personality. Its actually not that hard to make connections, if you work at it, just like its not that hard to get high scores if you work at it. Connections aren't something that somepeople have and others will never get. Go to every single one of your professor's office hours and ask him at the end of the year if he knows anyone at the medschool you want to go to. Ask the ER doctor you volunteer next to if he wants to have lunch some time. Write an email to a professor at some great school whose research you are interested in and start a correspondance. Ask your parents if they know any doctors you could have lunch with some day (every parent knows at least a couple doctors).

And lastly, I'm not advocating connections INSTEAD of MCATs or GPA as a criteria for admissions. I think to get into a top med school, a student should be strong in all three categories (not to mention personal statement, extracurrics...etc).

Damn, I'm gonna get flamed...
 
Swing Doc, that first response of yours was a GREAT POST, I must say. Cheers. Perfect correlation/feeling from a real life example. It elucidated the situation.

As for the standard test, I think you have to have it, but I'm not a big fan of it (in terms of predicting the type of physician you'll be). I know it predicts med school performance somewhat, but that's still borderline baloney.

How many people do you know that got into med school are THAT much smarter than you, or would be better doctors in any given situation? I think if you ask yourself that question (provided you know yourself pretty well -- which I admit I doubt the population does, by and large) you'll find that there are a ton of people that got in that you know that while very studious and smart, are not that much smarter where it would make any difference. Why do you think a ton of doctors say that the best doctors are those that finish LAST in the class? It's because they go on to dominate the clinical side.

I just don't buy this "Would you rather some intellectual incompetent working on you as a doctor?" That really is quite ridiculous considering the length of schooling and that if you don't do well IN med school, your residency selection won't be that high, thus you won't get into some life or death doctor situation. Come on.

In any case, in my opinion, I know quite a few people that are NO smarter than me by any means (even or a point or two higher on the MCAT) and wouldn't necessarily be a better doctor for anyr reason. I'm not saying I'm better, I saying they are in no way better. I'm not trying to bitch either, cuz I still might get in --- or it might take me a while ... but it's a natural human tendency to feel uneasy when things like this occur. Finally, i just want to return to my point that those very people that get in ("questionably")... I think they make fine doctors. Who's to say that when I get in I'm not motivated and newly invigorated, knowing that this is my profession for sure, that I will be helping people with the very stuff I'm learning? That is far more apt to be a motivating factor, much more than knowing the gauche interaction of hydrocarbons, the electric field emitted by a 5M rod, or that F is the most electronegative atom ...

My thoughts,

Gumshoe
 
i...ah...second what skiracer123 said. well done.

now do we understand why some top notch applicants haven't gotten an acceptance...POST-interview...

interviews are the charisma MCAT.

...good thing I scored a 43-45T on that MCAT...:)
 
My rant on a low verbal score meaning poor social skills has been kind of misunderstood. I should have written it better. Basically all I'm saying is that I've seen a ton of people that are REALLY good at science, but horrible with their social skills. I agree that medicine as a discipline needs both the geniuses to invent the drugs - and the charming types to convey to the patient exactly how the drug might make them throw up at night.
 
Regarding what skiracer123 said:
I agree that there are very valuable skills necessary for making "connections". The problem is that, more likely than not, the connections that give people an advantage in medical school admissions were not made by the students themselves. It's much more likely that the connections are through a parent or other relative. Sometime it's through a boss, a teacher, or maybe a relative of a boy/girlfriend.

Oh yes, and as for social skills: Although they are definitely necessary, I've known some people with amazing social skills that would make scary doctors.
 
Regarding the comment:

"I feel like some the people who think that a high MCAT score/GPA = best physician have probably not done too much in a clinical setting"

I completely agree. I absolutely *HATE* people who think someone is "MOre qualified" simply because s/he has a 3.8 and 33mcat over somone with a 3.6 and 31 mcat. That is why I'm SOOOOOOOO *for* Affirmative Action... it's about picking the BEST physicians for the CONTEXT of your society... and the facts are that we, as a society, need more minority physicians! Not to mention the fact that they perform in NO way subpar to their peers once they're in the door.

About "connections" i'm sure it happens, but, at least it's NOT BAD like in other countries. My god, in Greece if your dad is rich, you automatically get a spot in law/med school... but if your dad is poor and you're a genious - tough luck. It's *ALL* about connections in most other parts of the world.

That's one of the reasons, no matter what Bush's ideology is, I just hate the fact that our leader is the epitome of someone who got in because of connections.... and I find it even more offensive that someone like him who is the EPITOME of having been favored is against affirmative action.... riduclous.
 
If you read my former post followed by the EXCELLENT exposition by ColoradoCCT, you'll get a great idea of that viewpoint. Kudos, CCT.

I would like to point out another thing to posters. I have met a few people that acted like they were really going to do something for me (in the position to do something significant, although perhaps not spectacular) in terms of a "connection" ---> and I can tell you that I thought some would work out that didn't pan out at all. You still have to be quality on some level or else you will not get this so called "connection"

Kreno, yes, most other countries in the world have stupid socialist governments that totally allow, by their nature, the class thing to arise and make for really BS connections (your Ellas).

And I won't sit here and s*ck Bush's d***, but I must defend him out of fairness. The Bush family was nothing but a relatively wealthy family when he grew up and his Dad was a WW2 hero. The liberals would have you believe that he got into Yale by legacy ... that is total BS. The Bush family was nothing back then. They didn't point this out about Gore, who was always the silver spoon kid of a newspaper tycoon. I just think this is interesting.

The whole family turned political. That happens for a GREAT % of presidents in our past, and many that have been great presidents. Complain that his family is wealthy, that's legit. But don't join it to favoritism while implying race was involved (you talked about AA). The real debate with all this stuff is not race ---> it's socioeconomic.

My thoughts,

Gumshoe
 
Hey Gumshoe... thanks for the response. I think there was a misunderstanding though... I wasn't talking about him being admitted to Yale or Harvard (his MBA) because of his wealth... rather, I was referring to that advantage you get if your parent is an Alum and ALSO was referring to the "connections" he had LATER in life when he becaome governer, etc. It's no coincidence him and his brother are governers and his father was president.... hence my point.

Secondly, to say it's "socioeconomic" is kinda cliche, in my view. It's more "social" and a lot less "economical." that is, while it is certainly true that there are minorities are lower on the economic ladder, it is not true that Affirmative Action seeks to help "socioeconomic" disadvantaged.... THAT IS BECAUSE, of course, that the "economic" part isn't what Affirmative Action focuses on.

I was reading the Brief AAMC gave to the Supreme Court, and they made an interesting point. They said that average MCAT scores of african americans who come from affluent families (i.e 80k or more a year) scored SIGNIFICANLY lower than white applicants who came from households who made less than 30k/year. Hence, their point was that to look at the economics WOULD NOT solve the racial proportions in an entering class.

kreno :)
 
I see your points but the whole thing is ENTIRELY about economics. If better education did not mean better job in 90% of the cases then you might be right.

I'm not sure if that test was statistically significant (I'm not saying it was or was not), but let's look at what the possible conclusions are:

There is a cultural problem with Afro Americans (as a guy like Dinesh D'Souza would tell you) ... and if this is not the case the next (and obviously HARSH) conclusion is that, by and large, this group has less intelligence.

Please do not take either of these positions as being endorsed by Gumshoe. But if we use your argument, all I am saying is that, these are the necessary next steps. Clearly no one wants to hear those, either, however viable they may be.

In summation, I don't think the amount of <30K whites and >80K blacks taking the MCAT in order to compare these groups , is significant.

For the supreme court there, it seems like a catch-22. There is no other explanation, outside of the socioeconomic one, that gives an option to uphold, unless they admit the two former "possible conclusions".

Please don't anyone argue the test biased bullsh*t argument, either. I don't want this forum to turn into an argument where one side presents statistics and facts, while the other argues some type of abstract, indefensible position (ie. different words have different meaning to different people). That argument would go on and on and on and on ....

Gumshoe
 
Originally posted by Gumshoe
There is a cultural problem with Afro Americans (as a guy like Dinesh D'Souza would tell you)
Click to expand...

Did D'Souza actually use the phrase "cultural PROBLEM"? If so, why couldn't cultural difference be used?

I'm not even going to touch the intelligence issue.
 
anyone have the link to that aamc brief? Thanks.
 
I agree with Gumshoe. I found the >80k Blacks, <30k Whites MCAT data to be sort of jarring at first - but then I thought about it. I'm no demographer - but how many African American's that took the MCAT come from families that make more than 80k? In terms of basing one's opinion on statistics - the entire number of MCAT takers is hardly significant - let alone a tiny fraction of those who took the test.

I also agree that the "test is biased" argument is dicey at best. Its an extremely useful and effective argument because its very nature is obscure and unquantifiable.

For those that would argue its solely economics - I would have to disagree. Things are definitely better now than they were for our parents generation for African Americans. But make no mistake, they are NOT equal. The legacy of inequality and lack of opportunity (not to mention the self-esteem issues that have been pointed out by several prominent Black leaders) will continue to plague African Americans for years to come. Its getting better, but we aren't there yet.
 
In terms of connections: does that mean that if they are YOUR connections (i.e. - not from your parents or friends), then they are legit?

And if they are from your parents, then they aren't legit?

I mean connections are connections, who cares how you got them?

If you think people's parents connections or status is not valid - then perhaps you should voluntarily enroll in a public high school in the inner-city, just so everything would be "even and fair".

I'm pretty sure though that connections don't matter much in terms of med school, unless they are absurdly great (like your parent is on the committee, or you are boys with the Surgeon General).

I'm a pretty charismatic guy, and I've met a ton of people throughout this process that have said "Oh Dave, I'll definitely help you out, you'd be great here, let me make some calls for you." NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS PANNED OUT. Not that these people haven't gone to bat for me - they have, its just that Adcoms don't care.
 
Originally posted by uofchopeful
Did D'Souza actually use the phrase "cultural PROBLEM"? If so, why couldn't cultural difference be used?

I'm not even going to touch the intelligence issue.
Click to expand...
Since we're going on the assumption that intelligence isn't an issue (which I'm certain it isn't), and economic levels are accounted for, then it must be cultural, right? I'd say it's a PROBLEM if the result is much lower test scores. Maybe I'd have said a "cultural problem FOR", not "cultural problem WITH", but I get what Gumshoe is saying.

I'd say that A LOT of people have a problem with standardized testing due to social factors, including parental influence (not everyone's mom said "Have fun!" to them when they were going to take a test like mine did!) and quality of available education. When these social factors become systemic (for any group of people), they're cultural. That's not to say that all African Americans are subject to the same cultural PROBLEM (yes, I'm using caps just to be an a$$ :D )- indeed, that's one area where the argument against AA is strong- but it may be significant enough to make a statistical difference.

I think "cultural DIFFERENCE" would actually be a really insulting thing to say in this case...
 
CCT, good call. That was the purpose of the post. Kreno started the Bush->race thing

I just wanted everyone to know I was only exploring answers and stuff ... there was no statements of position in ANY way. UofC, you recognize this, I'm sure.

In any case, I've heard of the illegible **** writing by doctors. I think it's because they don't want to waste time worrying about things so petty as writing. They put far more energy into the thinking. I find that I do this at times too. It's quite poor in the end. What a shame

gumshoe
 
i interviewed for a research job at a top 5 school, and the doc said something along the lines of, "if you work for me, i will be able to provide a strong reference to [the dean of admissions] on your behalf. every person i've ever recommended has gotten in."

that was before i'd taken the mcat, with a gpa a bit below their average.

i didn't take the job for other reasons, but i'd say the connection factor can be pretty substantial.
 
I never understood the writing problem with doctors - I mean I've been busy before in my life, and its never made me write illegibly. Why should I start writing crappy when I'm a doc? I'm consistenly amazed when I fill a script at CVS how they can understand what was written down.

I bring it in and it says "asdfjkl;asdf sig asdfjkl;" and the lady is like "Oh you are getting allegra, here you go." Amazing.
 
yes, CCT, another good post. I thought I made it clear with my disclaimer that I held no position. These boards are tough ways to communicate at times, I do get your point. Anyway, UofChopeful , you are my boy, but I think that you too need to think about the way you post people's quotes. I'm not just singling you out, either. I mean it for all of us. Say you were someone who just stumbled on to this post and it read what you had quoted me on, when that really wasn't anywhere NEAR the meaning of my whole original post --- I never said in that post that I believed that afro ams have cultural problems ... I merely said that D'Souza offered this as a suggestion. But in the quote form, it looks like I AM indeed saying that. You get my point?

Well enough of this banter. I guess threads are always just begging for misinterpretation. A big time problem with email, IM, and boards are that they don't offer flexibility, facial expressions, or verbal tones ...

Gumshoe
 
i said that UofChopeful is my boy ...

I'll romance you SDN style, CCT

haha

Gummy
 
Ohh, i've got a lot of things in store for you, CCT. It's not so much what I have in mind, but what I have in the head that is up for some good times ...

[I love message boards for this reason --- you can put down ludicrous stuff and it all flies]

Count the puns there, my friends

intended

Take it easy

Gumshoe, trying to picture what CCT actually looks like ... hmmm

brown or blue eyes?
 
I feel like I'm in a singles bar. Anyone? :rolleyes:

:D :laugh: :D :laugh: Ah, SDN, the eternal matchmaker...
 
You all took my statement about AA a little too seriously. My point was, there is a reason for this aweful thing we call the MCAT and there is a reason why GPA matters. Like a previous post said, it is a weed out process. An INTELLECTUAL weed out process. Now I didnt make up the system and sometimes I dont even agree with it, but there must be a reason it is used as a way of separating the weak from the strong (academically) I mean, my God people!! This is medical school we are talking about. And yes, after all those years of schooling, a few points in IQ should be neither here nor there. So I guess it all comes back to whether or not you get there in the first place. And that is why numbers matter. As much as it sucks, and as much as it hurts knowing that some a$$ with no social skills is taking care of people and making life or death decisions, that is the way it is. I really dont believe someone with a 2.9 GPA and 20 MCAT will ever get in no matter how much a$$ they kiss, no matter how many people they know--unless of course, their daddy is the dean or on the adcom. So Gumshoe--take it with a grain of salt when people say "I can get you in" Unless that person is on the adcom or the Dean of the damn school, more likely than not they are probable blowing smoke up your a$$. If you believe this is your destiny than you will find a way to make it happen--you wont need "connections" to fulfill your dreams.:)
 
Originally posted by Lab-Rat21
Interesting stat:

for every $1 a Caucasian man has, an African-American has 11cents, a Latino 9cents...

Hello:eek: Some do not have the money to hire a private MCAT tutor, or take a $1500-$1700 prep class...some parents do not pay for college and students have to work, this affects grades.

These same people who faced hardships and still made it are going to be better doctors than a person with high MCATs and high GPA that feels some sort of entitlement.

Humility is a wonderful thing, lil puke.:p Leave out the Affirmative Action from at least SOME of your blame for not getting into med schools people...the whole point of the program is that there aren't enough minorities out there...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...



Wow. I just read this post and Labrat I am sorry if my post offended you. But I have news for you. I have seen my share of hard times, my parents are not rich, and I will not and have not taken a prep, nor do I have a tutor. I agree that its unfair that some people have it easy and it seems the easier they have it the bigger jerks they end up being...SOMETIMES. But your attack on people with money is just as bad a prejudice as what this country saw 30 years ago. And its kind of funny cuz I think AA is kind of a reversed prejudice.....a white guy is kind of out of luck nowadays. What does race have to do with being a doc anyway?? I just dont get it. We are all equally important anyway. Do you think if your Asian an Asian doc will treat you better than a white one or black one will?? Does anyone else see the ridiculousness of this??
Ya know, I do hope you get in. I really do.
 
I was just responding to this idea about a "level playing field" on the MCAT. You can see there are outside factors that can affect the results of the test.

I have a deep respect for any minority that makes it to med school, and shame on those (not you necessarily lil pook) who rip into Affirmative Action when "LEGACIES" exist. Just b/c your parents went to a certain place should not mean anything...it creates an inbreeding at the top, like Old Aristocratic times...:rolleyes:

For the record, people who get in with connections may never be satisfied...there is a strange fulfillment that comes only from getting to places on your own merit, really.:D
 
Yeah, man, I knew exactly what you were trying to convey. I didn't even think that that quote would be attributed to you, expeciallly since I included the part about D'Souza.

My bad. You're my boy, too, man

So, D'Souza actually said "cultural problem"?
 
I didn't mean to digress the purpose of this thread, which was originally about "connections" For that I appologize. However, there was a connection - and it had to do with an analogy to someone who related people who get in with "connections" somehow with people who get in because of "Affirmative Action."

For those of you interested in the American Medical School Associan's friend of the court Breif filed before the Supreme Court - here is the link. The part about racial diffenences in MCAT scores are on page 24 of it.

http://www.aamc.org/diversity/focuson.htm
 
For the record, people who get in with connections may never be satisfied...there is a strange fulfillment that comes only from getting to places on your own merit, really.:D

That's a great statement in an ideal world...but why don't we ask those in the "No Acceptances Yet" thread if they would be fulfilled if they could get in via a connection.:D
 
Originally posted by Lab-Rat21
I was just responding to this idea about a "level playing field" on the MCAT. You can see there are outside factors that can affect the results of the test.

I have a deep respect for any minority that makes it to med school, and shame on those (not you necessarily lil pook) who rip into Affirmative Action when "LEGACIES" exist. Just b/c your parents went to a certain place should not mean anything...it creates an inbreeding at the top, like Old Aristocratic times...:rolleyes:

For the record, people who get in with connections may never be satisfied...there is a strange fulfillment that comes only from getting to places on your own merit, really.:D
Click to expand...

Its all good Labrat. We are all entitled to our opinions....its a free country.
Just dont ever call me lil puke again:D
 
Originally posted by TexasGuy41
In terms of connections: does that mean that if they are YOUR connections (i.e. - not from your parents or friends), then they are legit?

And if they are from your parents, then they aren't legit?

I mean connections are connections, who cares how you got them?
Click to expand...
Entirely not the point. The whole parent connections vs. student connections was to comment on the utility of the social skills necessary for establishing connections. They are very useful skills; thus, using connections could potentially positively comment on you as a future physician. But if YOU are not the one establishing the connections, then those connections do not comment on YOUR skills in that arena, but your parents' (or teacher's, or whoever).

Any connection is legit. That's how lots of strippers get their leg up in life ;)
 
D'Souza didn't say that it was a problem ... but he said the reason why they don't get the type of scores has to do with culture. Clearly, if the fact that someone has lower scores is because of their culture, on some level that culture (since we would all agree that it wants to achieve like others) is a problem for them. No???

I don't know what he said exactly, but it was about culture. I don't want to put words in his mouth. I believe the above paragraph would be true, though, if you asked him.

Take it easy. Enough of that stupid argument. Any news on med school? May 15 can't come quick enough!

Gum
 
Yet another topic touching raw nerves for some...

In the end, it's like most other things: it's how things work, and whether its 100% "cricket" or not, good and bad things come from it.

I can never criticize those who use connections. My story:

34 ACT, 1450 SAT, 3.8+, 5 AP classes (all 5's, 25 credits worth), great ECs (sans a varsity sport), and even a mild family connection to the school (my uncle played football there.) I was accepted to two great schools but ultimately not the school I wanted. To that school, from my HS, 13 students were initially accepted: 8 legacy, 4 URM. Since I was neither and the college obviously had an interest in not accepting too many from one HS, I was waitlisted.

I had worked on a service project sponsored by the largest $ contributer to the college (purely coincidentally) and I told him about my background and my intent to attend. He made a call; I was in as soon as the paperwork was finished.

Few students got off the wait list that year... do I feel bad? Given my successes in college and my at-least-comparable entrance statistics to my classmates, I do not. I recognize that there might have been a few other people in a similar condition without my good fortune, and I feel for them.

In the end, would I do it again? Yes.

Life often does not work out in terms amenable to abstract moral philosophy (this from a Philo major :cool: ). I accept that people will have their own strong views, but in the end, we all have to choose for ourself what we ought to do (including during med school apps).


ps. i realize that some people are hesitant to talk about / hear about precise scores, but I thought that they were illustrative for my story
 
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