Given the fact that Step 1 is now P/F, how worried should I be as an incoming DO student this summer?

[harrislakers123]

VSAS application goes out in Jan to April. That means that students have to take Step 2 in Nov of early 3rd yr. Not happening. DO schools even established ones lack the manpower, expertise, and plan to change the structure so quick.

you are probably right, but survival may be enough to motivate COMs to adapt. Compact preclinical into year 1, year 2 teach clinical medicine and take Step 2 after year 2.

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[Epilepsy365]

you are probably right, but survival may be enough to motivate COMs to adapt. Compact preclinical into year 1, year 2 teach clinical medicine and take Step 2 after year 2.

What survival? The DO mission is to provide PCPs. That hasn’t changed at all.

We are doing a damn good job at filling that need.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I know those intangible metrics. Quite frankly, this is a power move by MDs to destroy DO expansion and categorize DO as an initials for PCP.

The important intangibles that will come into play are:
1) USMD > all
2) Research - DOs can’t provide that
3) Academic LORs - DO clinical rotations can’t provide these. People are just going to say oh it can be taken care of via ACGME aways. Wrong. Aways used to be filtered by Step 1. Now, DOs will get away crumbs at IMG sweatshops.
4) Maybe Step 2 - score won’t come back in time for VSAS application

I agree with your concerns about aways having to be scheduled before any score available. But a lot of places, at least currently, do first come first served, so there will still be ways.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Step 2 moving to earlier date, with curriculums changing solves everything

Lol, It won’t/can’t happen. You think you can snap your fingers and everything magically changes? 2 years of preclinical suddenly becomes 1 year? I don’t think that will happen, especially with the basic science faculty and clinical fighting over time. Since we spend the first two years studying for the wrong test, your gonna have a hard time turning around and taking step 2 during the beginning of rotations. It will be a very rare bird indeed who can get a 250+ on step 2 during the first semester of 3rd year.

 

[iamdamiancray]

What survival? The DO mission is to provide PCPs. That hasn’t changed at all.

We are doing a damn good job at filling that need.

You do realize that you just replied to a DO senior who went to a new DO school and matched to one of the top Ophthalmology residency programs in one of the brightest research based universities in California, right?

I really wonder how I’d think of SDN once I’m an attending, God Willing.


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[BorntobeDO?]

You do realize that you just replied to a DO senior who went to a new DO school and matched to one of the top Ophthalmology residency programs in one of the brightest research based universities in California, right?

I really wonder how I’d think of SDN once I’m an attending, God Willing.


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Hopefully if you make it to attending you won’t care very much about what’s said on SDN. And what he has done now is not the same thing as doing it in a couple years without step and in a more competitive environment. Also, don’t dox the guy like that.

 

[iamdamiancray]

Hopefully if you make it to attending you won’t care very much about what’s said on SDN. And what he has done now is not the same thing as doing it in a couple years without step and in a more competitive environment. Also, don’t dox the guy like that.

One thing I’m not getting is why mid tier USMD/USDOs are freaking out. Step 2 is still in number. That brings out competition. Bruh. Instead of 1, they’ll look at 2. How hard?


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[Whysoez]

One thing I’m not getting is why mid tier USMD/USDOs are freaking out. Step 2 is still in number. That brings out competition. Bruh. Instead of 1, they’ll look at 2. How hard?


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Timing, and the fact that DOs now have to take step 2.

 

[deleted859689]

Everything now is speculation so it's hard to give advice. We will need to see how residencies adapt to the changes, and the students (and schools) will change accordingly. Alumni network and past results (e.g., residencies who had good experiences with graduates from certain DO schools) may help. Schools with a large clinical rotation network, and their own large residency (medical school based osteopathic residency network - OPTI) can help.

Examples of OPTI - PCOM Med-Net (32 residencies, 1200 spots)

Graduate Medical Education | Rotations and Residencies at PCOM

Graduate Medical Education (GME)’s mission is to develop qualified, competent and caring physicians in the ambulatory, hospital and extended care settings.

www.pcom.edu

Someone brought up research. Compare to MD counterparts (with a few MD school exceptions), DO schools are not even on the radar when it comes to clinical or bench research. The older schools do conduct some research, but no where near the level of MD schools (which mostly are attached to major research universities). However, if your DO school is located near major research universities (ie PCOM in Philly, Rowan in NJ with Rutgers in NJ or the universities in Philly across the river, NYIT and all the schools in NYC, CCOM and Chicago, etc), there are opportunities for eager students to find researchers (quid pro quo - I'll do free lab labor, you get me published, maybe make connections with your clinical friends). If you're in Gaylord, MN studying medicine in a renovated elementary school building - good luck finding research nearby - it's a 2 hr drive to get to Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN.

Now some of the newer MD schools are similar in style to DO schools, and may run into similar problems.

CUSOM near research triangle in NC

 

[harrislakers123]

Hopefully if you make it to attending you won’t care very much about what’s said on SDN. And what he has done now is not the same thing as doing it in a couple years without step and in a more competitive environment. Also, don’t dox the guy like that.

Appreciate it, but my screen name is intentional I have no need/desire to hide my identity.

 

[iamdamiancray]

More specifically:

Obviously this is a serious blow, but is it significant enough to warrant taking a gap year to bolster my application for low/mid tier MD schools?
How much more difficult does this make it for DO's to compete with our MD colleagues when applying for residencies?

Here’s my take on it, you’re going to ignore the fact that PCOM has its own ACGME residency programs and years of alumni networking and listen to a few doubenuts00146329339202s’ advices on a website and give up on a med school acceptance? There’s a 99% chance you will be a doctor. How big of a 100% regret will you have when you will think back to what you did because of doubenuts00146329339202 or SDN in general?


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[iamdamiancray]

Timing, and the fact that DOs now have to take step 2.

Most DOs take four exams in med school: USMLE AND COMLEX I and II. Just do as you were doing before. The only time I’d be worried of this change is if I went to the islands where I’d have to prove to American people that I’m worthy of American Medicine by taking one of your exams. If I’m an AMG, why would I care? I’ve my own league and own connections. The heck. Y’all pretend like DOs have been around for 3 years and are orphans begging for food. We’ve our own set of programs and definitely life would be the same. Instead of proving competency in Step 1, you prove yourself on Step 2. Plus, look for ex-AOA programs.


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[Whysoez]

Most DOs take four exams in med school: USMLE AND COMLEX I and II. Just do as you were doing before. The only time I’d be worried of this change is if I went to the islands where I’d have to prove to American people that I’m worthy of American Medicine by taking one of your exams. If I’m an AMG, why would I care? I’ve my own league and own connections. The heck. Y’all pretend like DOs have been around for 3 years and are orphans begging for food. We’ve our own set of programs and definitely life would be the same. Instead of proving competency in Step 1, you prove yourself on Step 2. Plus, look for ex-AOA programs.


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Again, timing is crucial when taking step 2. Ex-AOA will probably not be enough to save us all, some spots will be taken by MDs.

 

[iamdamiancray]

Again, timing is crucial when taking step 2. Ex-AOA will probably not be enough to save us all, some spots will be taken by MDs.

That’s why the merger happened. If you read the merger agreement, there is a protection clause. DOs need to stop getting insecure about everything. Please know your value. Minority protection is a thing.


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[Tinyhandz]

What survival? The DO mission is to provide PCPs. That hasn’t changed at all.

We are doing a damn good job at filling that need.

That’s why the merger happened. If you read the merger agreement, there is a protection clause. DOs need to stop getting insecure about everything. Please know your value. Minority protection is a thing.


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What exactly does minority protection do? They can’t force PD’s to take DO’s. DO’s were matching into decent programs like EM, Gas, OBGYN, and more with a slightly above Step 1 that MD counterparts got. The Step 2 is taken much later, does not have the same amount of material to study from, and DO’s already have a much poorer rotation selection and clinical sites.

Previous AOA sites might be more sympathetic but if comlex goes pass fail as well, it might not be.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

One thing I’m not getting is why mid tier USMD/USDOs are freaking out. Step 2 is still in number. That brings out competition. Bruh. Instead of 1, they’ll look at 2. How hard?


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Because it’s only 1 chance and it happens late. That’s why.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

That’s why the merger happened. If you read the merger agreement, there is a protection clause. DOs need to stop getting insecure about everything. Please know your value. Minority protection is a thing.


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We are not a protected class.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

What exactly does minority protection do? They can’t force PD’s to take DO’s. DO’s were matching into decent programs like EM, Gas, OBGYN, and more with a slightly above Step 1 that MD counterparts got. The Step 2 is taken much later, does not have the same amount of material to study from, and DO’s already have a much poorer rotation selection and clinical sites.

Previous AOA sites might be more sympathetic but if comlex goes pass fail as well, it might not be.

LOL senseless sensationalism, EM, OBGYN and Gas were never top tier residencies that required a ton of research or connections. You needed a 225-230 to match any of those, EM actually has like 40-45 if not more former AOA programs and OBGYN has around 20, gas has only 14ish, but there’s many mid/low tier and community Gas and OBGYN residencies that take DO’s frequently so they won’t just stop taking DO’s/ looking at DO apps, after this goes into effect, like you do realize that MD’s won’t have a step score either so step 2 and your LOR’s from 3rd and 4th year will be king, also research experience of any kind will be helpful, but if the comlex is scored still, it could help DO’s as these programs that have taken many DO’s in the past may actually be able to look at comlex score to help make the decision for DO vs DO or even DO vs. MD with not much of a better app and a DO who has a killer comlex score.

 

[Epilepsy365]

LOL senseless sensationalism, EM, OBGYN and Gas were never top tier residencies that required a ton of research or connections. You needed a 225-230 to match any of those, EM actually has like 40-45 if not more former AOA programs and OBGYN has around 20, gas has only 14ish, but there’s many mid/low tier and community Gas and OBGYN residencies that take DO’s frequently so they won’t just stop taking DO’s/ looking at DO apps, after this goes into effect, like you do realize that MD’s won’t have a step score either so step 2 and your LOR’s from 3rd and 4th year will be king, also research experience of any kind will be helpful, but if the comlex is scored still, it could help DO’s as these programs that have taken many DO’s in the past may actually be able to look at comlex score to help make the decision for DO vs DO or even DO vs. MD with not much of a better app and a DO who has a killer comlex score.

Good luck.

 

[Epilepsy365]

You do realize that you just replied to a DO senior who went to a new DO school and matched to one of the top Ophthalmology residency programs in one of the brightest research based universities in California, right?

I really wonder how I’d think of SDN once I’m an attending, God Willing.


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Thanks. I don’t like to cyber flex. We are having an adult convo here. Talk less and listen more.

 

[ciestar]

Yeah hence the quotes. Upper tier as in more established, had a history of decent matches (theirs were on par with low-tier MD ones like Temple), decent rotation sites, etc. As opposed to some brand new middle-of-nowhere school.

I don't care about super competitive ones, I like psych anyways, but being limited to primary care only before committing to a school and giving over hundreds of thousands of $$?? Sounds hardly even worth the back-up

And PCOM students share rotation sites with Drexel, Jeff, and Temple students. How many people actually know that, though? It is brought up over and over again that clinical training for DOs is questionable. In the Philly area, it isn’t really a problem as they know PCOM students. If you’re wanting to branch out of the geographic area, will they? Would they give that app a chance?

This uncertainty stuff already kills a lot of DO applicants. It will likely dramatically effect Drexel students down the line too.

 

[cpr231]

So from what I’m understanding, DOs will now barely slide into FM/community IM. Peds, psych, and EM will be a far reach. Anything else will be impossible?

 

[Whysoez]

So from what I’m understanding, DOs will now barely slide into FM/community IM. Peds, psych, and EM will be a far reach. Anything else will be impossible?

DO will be fine for FM/Community IM, Peds, EM, Gas and Psych (slightly harder). Academic IM will be more difficult. Derm, ortho, ophtha will now be considered impossible.

 

[Epilepsy365]

DO will be fine for FM/Community IM, Peds, EM, Gas and Psych (slightly harder). Academic IM will be more difficult. Derm, ortho, ophtha will now be considered impossible.

Take Gas off that equation. That’s the one specialty that has a huge hard on for Step 1. Now, it will be moved to Step 2. That’s also one specialty where aways are filtered by USMLE cutoffs. So no a a academic GAS LOR or even Gas aways unless you take Step 2 early third year.

 

[scoopdaboop]

THE MD'S HAVE WON. THE WAR THAT WAS RAGING BETWEEN DO'S AND MD'S IS NOW OVER. MD'S WERE MAD THAT CULTISTS HAD PERSUADED GOVERNMENT TO PRACTICE MEDICINE, AND THAT DO'S WERE ABLE TO HAVE SOME FORM OF EVIDENCE THAT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO PRACTICE AKA "MY STEP SCORE IS JUST AS GOOD AS YOURS", BUT THEY HAVE TOOK THAT AWAY. IT'S OVER.

 

[BuildingMyOwnLuck]

So from what I’m understanding, DOs will now barely slide into FM/community IM. Peds, psych, and EM will be a far reach. Anything else will be impossible?

Why barely? There's more spots for those than for all USMD students applying for those so as long as your step 2 is alright and no red flags it shouldn't be difficult. Don't forget, a lot of slots where Caribbean students would have gone will now be easier for DOs to get into. As a PD, >250 step IMG is probably better than 230 DO, but with P/F, I'd assume it's easier to just go with DO than guess with IMG

 

[BuildingMyOwnLuck]

Take Gas off that equation. That’s the one specialty that has a huge hard on for Step 1. Now, it will be moved to Step 2. That’s also one specialty where aways are filtered by USMLE cutoffs. So no a a academic GAS LOR or even Gas aways unless you take Step 2 early third year.

What if you get a great Step 2 though? A 80th+ percentile step 2 should get your foot in the door even as a DO. The only issue is that you may not get the score you expected and it will screw up your 3rd and 4th years, but assuming you do get a good score, it shouldn't change much. Or am I missing something?

 

[deleted831695]

So from what I’m understanding, DOs will now barely slide into FM/community IM. Peds, psych, and EM will be a far reach. Anything else will be impossible?

* FM
* Community IM/up-to-mid tier academic IM --> all fellowships except maybe GI and Cards
* EM
* Peds
* Path
* Neuro
* PM&R
* I think Gas, Gen Surg, and OB are still possible with strong broad applications at community/low-tier academic places

I think all of these are still viable. Surgical subspecialties and Derm will be extremely tough. Likewise for top programs in a given specialty. But that's always been the case, it's just more likely closed off moving forward.

 

[Epilepsy365]

* FM
* Community IM/up-to-mid tier academic IM --> all fellowships except maybe GI and Cards
* EM
* Peds
* Path
* Neuro
* PM&R
* I think Gas, Gen Surg, and OB are still possible with strong broad applications at community/low-tier academic places

I think all of these are still viable. Surgical subspecialties and Derm will be extremely tough. Likewise for top programs in a given specialty. But that's always been the case, it's just more likely closed off moving forward.

Right now, unless there’s a major revamp in the curriculum, I only see DOs having strong chances at FM, community IM, Peds, Path, and EM.

Neuro and PMR also have USMLE cutoffs for aways. DOs don’t have any exposure to either fields and you will need to demonstrate interest (eg research, aways, and LOR) with average board scores to have a strong chance.

This new change just took DOs out of the running for both of these fields.

 

[scoopdaboop]

Neuro and PMR also have USMLE cutoffs for aways. DOs don’t have any exposure to either fields and you will need to demonstrate interest (eg research, aways, and LOR) with average board scores to have a strong chance.

Neuro and PMR????? Nobody even wants to do these fields, so it'll be a cake walk for DO's.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Neuro and PMR????? Nobody even wants to do these fields, so it'll be a cake walk for DO's.

Lol Thanks Wise One

 

[scoopdaboop]

Why are people acting like certain fields that are already receptive to DO's will automatically tank? it's dumb. EM + radiology already took like 80 percent +. Neuro is like 90 percent. PMR, surprisingly, is like 66 percent, probably because the average step was 223 for those who matched (low). If anything, it'll only be a 10-15 percent drop of those matches. Still a big jump, but not

DOs out of the running for both of these

"

 

[deleted831695]

Right now, unless there’s a major revamp in the curriculum, I only see DOs having strong chances at FM, community IM, Peds, Path, and EM.

Neuro and PMR also have USMLE cutoffs for aways. DOs don’t have any exposure to either fields and you will need to demonstrate interest (eg research, aways, and LOR) with average board scores to have a strong chance.

This new change just took DOs out of the running for both of these fields.

Except there won't be USMLE cutoffs anymore if it goes P/F......and Neuro isn't competitive because it's so self-selected.

My DO school also literally has a required Neuro rotation.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Except there won't be USMLE cutoffs anymore if it goes P/F......and Neuro isn't competitive because it's so self-selected.

My DO school also literally has a required Neuro rotation.

Right... That’s why aways will go to USMDs only first.

That is fantastic that your school has a required Neuro rotation. That will open doors for you should you decide to enter the field.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Why are people acting like certain fields that are already receptive to DO's will automatically tank? it's dumb. EM + radiology already took like 80 percent +. Neuro is like 90 percent. PMR, surprisingly, is like 66 percent, probably because the average step was 223 for those who matched (low). If anything, it'll only be a 10-15 percent drop of those matches. Still a big jump, but not
"

They are receptive to DOs that have proven to be as good as previous MD candidates. Now, without a comparison, the assumption will be Dumbest MD > all DOs

 

[deleted831695]

Right... That’s why aways will go to USMDs only first.

That is fantastic that your school has a required Neuro rotation. That will open doors for you should you decide to enter the field.

Are there enough USMDs to fill Neuro, PM&R, and Gas? Current DOs can easily match into good academic centers in these specialties.

 

[scoopdaboop]

They are receptive to DOs that have proven to be as good as previous MD candidates. Now, without a comparison, the assumption will be Dumbest MD > all DOs

Away's are still a thing and can overcome SOMEWHAT the lack of step 1 , step 2 more so. Step 1 wasn't even mandatory, step 2 is definetly going to be what DO students use to differentiate themselves to MD counterparts. But I do agree that something like radiology where the average step 1 is 240 + will be a massive hit to DO's, but what was previously just average step scores for matching isn't going to take a big hit.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Are there enough USMDs to fill Neuro, PM&R, and Gas? Current DOs can easily match into good academic centers in these specialties.

Things are getting tight for Gas, especially on the DO side. You will need to do 3+ aways if you’re an average candidate based on board scores for this year. The problem is that DOs now don’t have access to aways anymore unless you take Step 2 early 3rd year.

As for Neuro, community/university and university programs will require average board scores, strong LOR, and optionally some research to elevate your application further. Yield is about 20-30% IIs for an average candidate for these programs. That’s the report from the frontline for this year. Things will def get tougher a couple of years from now.

 

[Startingover123]

Right now, unless there’s a major revamp in the curriculum, I only see DOs having strong chances at FM, community IM, Peds, Path, and EM.

Neuro and PMR also have USMLE cutoffs for aways. DOs don’t have any exposure to either fields and you will need to demonstrate interest (eg research, aways, and LOR) with average board scores to have a strong chance.

This new change just took DOs out of the running for both of these fields.

Do you think it is even worth getting in a ton of debt for these fields?

 

[Epilepsy365]

Do you think it is even worth getting in a ton of debt for these fields?

If PSLF is there for a FM VA job, that’s still a good deal.

But the idea of limiting myself to only 10% of specialties for the current COA is very off setting and not worth it IMO.

I went into Med school knowing that I can’t do surgery due to my back injury. But if I’m someone who has the itch for hot fields and am a borderline MD candidate with some waitlist spots, I would take a gap year to improve my application.

 

[Startingover123]

If PSLF is there for a FM VA job, that’s still a good deal.

But the idea of limiting myself to only 10% of specialties for the current COA is very off setting and not worth it IMO.

I went into Med school knowing that I can’t do surgery due to my back injury. But if I’m someone who has the itch for hot fields and am a borderline MD candidate with some waitlist spots, I would take a gap year to improve my application.

Thank you. Pretty sure PSLF will be gone with Trump’s budget. If the future holds that DO’s can only match in community IM programs will any IM fellowships be options? Oncology?

 

[Epilepsy365]

Thank you. If the future holds that DO’s can only match in community IM programs will any IM fellowships be options? Oncology?

It’s doable but you have to be top 3 of your community IM resident class to get into Cards, GI, Heme/Onc, and Pulm/CC. Basically be prepared to grind in residency for another 2 years like you’re gunning for ortho. Nothing is impossible but it will be easier coming from an academic program. For example, at my community IM program, our IM chief received several Cards fellowship spots.

 

[scoopdaboop]

Do you think it is even worth getting in a ton of debt for these fields?

Yes. Taking a bleak scenario like this, let's say 60 K loans x 4 years of med school + .07 interest = 294,120 interest at start of residency. Now let's say you do a 3 year residency for FM, your number one goal should be to prevent interest accumulation during these years. Do the math (total 294,120 * .07 * 3 ) = 61,765 to pay off in 3 years so interest doesn't accumulate. That turns out to around 1700 a month, which is really steep and maybe not manageable, so you have to do the numbers for yourself to see what is managable. I would say 1200-1300 a month should be do-able.

If you paid 1200 a month, the interest you would have is : 18,565. Add that to total = 294120 + 18565 = 312,685.

NOW, let's say you decide to pay that off in 5 years. And you have to do the math yourself to see if it works with the lifestyle you want. 5 x .07 x 312,685 = 109,439 + 312685 = 422,000 K. For 10 years, you're looking at 512,000 total.

Divide 422,000 by 60 months (5 years), your'e looking at approx 7000 a month in loans. For 512,000 / 120 months = 4.4 k a month for loans for 10 years

An average of 166,873 after taxes for 250K salary (just based on where I live), nets you 6906 a month after student loans. This is EASILY manageable to live on. If you're approx 30 - 32 after residency, you'll be 37 with 0 debt, and making more money as you advance in your career. Of course, you should definetly try to keep up with health etc while you do that so you can maximize your future income.

So, yes, I would argue it is worth it. This isn't even considering that you can work in crappy areas and make 300 K + , and moonlight during residency. Also, certain IM sub specialties (allergy immuno) pay 300 K + etc. Sports family med also pays more etc.

 

[deleted831695]

Things are getting tight for Gas, especially on the DO side. You will need to do 3+ aways if you’re an average candidate based on board scores for this year. The problem is that DOs now don’t have access to aways anymore unless you take Step 2 early 3rd year.

As for Neuro, community/university and university programs will require average board scores, strong LOR, and optionally some research to elevate your application further. Yield is about 20-30% IIs for an average candidate for these programs. That’s the report from the frontline for this year. Things will def get tougher a couple of years from now.

I see it as simple supply and demand. Neuro isn't super desirable with limited spots. Gas to a lesser extent. There will be annoyances with Step 2 scheduling, but until these fields stop taking DOs altogether in the near future, then they're still open.

Do you think it is even worth getting in a ton of debt for these fields?

You realize that there are USMDs also with lots of debt who go into FM, IM without further fellowship, Peds, Neuro, and/or go into academic medicine with reduced compensation.

Either hope Bernie Sanders gets elected or live like a resident for 3-5 years and aggressively pay off your loans. Especially if you have a partner, with dual income, you'll still live fine those years.

 

[Startingover123]

Thanks

I see it as simple supply and demand. Neuro isn't super desirable with limited spots. Gas to a lesser extent. There will be annoyances with Step 2 scheduling, but until these fields stop taking DOs altogether in the near future, then they're still open.



You realize that there are USMDs also with lots of debt who go into FM, IM without further fellowship, Peds, Neuro, and/or go into academic medicine with reduced compensation.

Either hope Bernie Sanders gets elected or live like a resident for 3-5 years and aggressively pay off your loans. Especially if you have a partner, with dual income, you'll still live fine those years.

Do you foresee DO school admission stats declining the next few years?

 

[ciestar]

Thank you. Pretty sure PSLF will be gone with Trump’s budget. If the future holds that DO’s can only match in community IM programs will any IM fellowships be options? Oncology?

As much as i hate that guy.. this isnt the first time he proposed getting rid of PSLF.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

As much as i hate that guy.. this isnt the first time he proposed getting rid of PSLF.

Heck Obama tried to cap PSLF 5 years ago. Eventually it will happen, but I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Good luck.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with what I said and you know it.

 

[GP0618]

Incoming DO student, therefore my knowledge base on the subject is limited. So take my input with a grain of salt.

From reading SDN feeds and speaking with students, the goal for DO students seeking a competitive specialty is to look like an MD on paper. I know prior to this news that included high Step 1 score, research, and great LOR. Would that still not apply after this change? I understand Step 1 is now P/F, but that is for everyone, including MD's. So instead of the world is falling, wouldn't it make since to simply adapt to a new way to look like an MD on paper?

Like I said, my knowledge base on the subject is limited, but that scenario makes sense to myself. Anyways, I'll go back to passively reading comments just wanted to include my 2 cents.

 

[Prescienced]

Incoming DO student, therefore my knowledge base on the subject is limited. So take my input with a grain of salt.

From reading SDN feeds and speaking with students, the goal for DO students seeking a competitive specialty is to look like an MD on paper. I know prior to this news that included high Step 1 score, research, and great LOR. Would that still not apply after this change? I understand Step 1 is now P/F, but that is for everyone, including MD's. So instead of the world is falling, wouldn't it make since to simply adapt to a new way to look like an MD on paper?

Like I said, my knowledge base on the subject is limited, but that scenario makes sense to myself. Anyways, I'll go back to passively reading comments just wanted to include my 2 cents.

The problem is that Step 1 was an objective way to say, "Hey, I'm a DO and I scored better than *points* all those MD applicants". Now what is to stop a PD from just seeing MD > DO? It's all very unclear how this will play out, which is absolutely mortifying as a potential 2024 grad.

Some more specific refutations I've seen posted here that address your comment on research:

1. Research becomes even more important, and this is not a good thing. Why? Because very little research is being conducted at DO schools, which by the way tend to be in rural areas far removed from outside research opportunities.

"Simply adapting" to look like an MD on paper has become much more difficult.