Given the fact that Step 1 is now P/F, how worried should I be as an incoming DO student this summer?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members don't see this ad.
iamdamiancray said:
I am not too concerned about it since I can see 275 USMLE Step 1 and 830 COMLEX Step 1 on my resume right now. I have done my work. It’s time for me to work for the DO community. I live for a purpose. Proving a community that is underrepresented. Yes, money is and was my primal motivation. But now I realize that I may have to look beyond grades and money from time to time. See you on DO Day, tho we will not know each other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Lol
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
1. There is no DO tier.
2. % matching in a field is a worthless metric for a multitude of reasons.
3. DO's are not really considered AMG's by PD's.
4. You will be pursuing the same residencies that the below average students at the MD school you passed up are using as safeties.
Ortho, yes. The other two? Absolutely not. Not even close.

There are very real sacrifices made when you go to a DO school instead of an MD school. You made a decision that I truly believe you will come to regret when you get to the end of 3rd year or are applying and are seeing where you are getting interviews compared to MD students of the same caliber. Part of me wonders if you are realizing your mistake and are in denial, because you keep making posts like this that are full of inaccuracies, almost like you are trying to convince yourself instead of us.
Click to expand...
I think #2 is a little more nuanced. We know that ~50% of DO grads go into either FM or IM. Alas, I don't know the total number for Primary Care, but let's say it's 60%. This number is higher for the oldest schools. That means about 40% of DO grads go into a specialty (non-PC). That number in and of itself can be illuminating, but is dependent upon the quality the program.

Now, there's the problem...quality. My own rule of thumb on top of % grads going into non-PC fields is to look at the number going to university programs. The higher, the better is my take. Now this is NOT saying that all community hospital programs are inferior to university programs, far from it.

The bolded is very true and people entering the field need to go in eyes open. The stated mission of the AOA is to train Primary Care docs.

Now, with the above info, that's all you can say, until you actually ask the experts, our wise SDN residents and attendings. They know who the good programs are. This is an exercise I engage in yearly once I get our school's match list.

So, i feel that there are hints you can get by looking at a match list.

Keep in mind: the best residency is the one you want to go, even if it's Joe's Clam Shack and Hospital. Many people self-select not merely because they're realistic about their odds, but because they want to stick around or go back to their home states.

Regarding #1. While there are no DO "tiers" (I despise that term..I prefer classes, like USN cruisers and battleships), there are definitely DO schools to avoid like the plague.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Lol
Click to expand...

You didn’t know that I’m a gunner from my posts? Why do you think I’ve so much free time to write big posts here at SDN? I’m on my psych rotation. The doctor looks like a psycho himself. Explains. And steps were not that hard. Downside of SDN—always exaggerating. Sattar, Pathoma, UWorld, and occasionally Najeeb. I was good. Med school is not hard. It’s work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Because holistic health is a buzz phrase that means nothing, and OMM is not based in science and, quite honestly, is an embarrassment a lot of the time.


When match day rolls around that's pretty much all we do bro.
Click to expand...
Lol love it, he is very new to the DO game. Our match list will have plenty of crowing with the usual characters and if we are lucky a gram account of a cute Plastic surgery match.
 
iamdamiancray said:
I am not too concerned about it since I can see 275 USMLE Step 1 and 830 COMLEX Step 1 on my resume right now. I have done my work. It’s time for me to work for the DO community. I live for a purpose. Proving a community that is underrepresented. Yes, money is and was my primal motivation. But now I realize that I may have to look beyond grades and money from time to time. See you on DO Day, tho we will not know each other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Pics or it didn’t happen. Actually I don’t believe you even with pics. Your troll game is about 5/10 right now, and you have avoided the ban hammer so I give you credit.

But you have convinced me, it’s time for positive BorntobeDO to come back. From now on it’s all sunshine and unicorns for the next week. Heck we might even get an update on RPCCOM ongoing accreditation and class size expansion.
 
BorntobeDO? said:
Pics or it didn’t happen. Actually I don’t believe you even with pics. Your troll game is about 5/10 right now, and you have avoided the ban hammer so I give you credit.

But you have convinced me, it’s time for positive BorntobeDO to come back. From now on it’s all sunshine and unicorns for the next week. Heck we might even get an update on RPCCOM ongoing accreditation and class size expansion.
Click to expand...

I love this group. It did happen. But how can I make a case when you won’t even trust my pics. Remember that girl that I was courting? U think her CEO papa really had his eyes on me without me grabbin his attention with them Gunnin’. Anyways. The match will show how much my step scores really matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
iamdamiancray said:
I love this group. It did happen. But how can I make a case when you won’t even trust my pics. Remember that girl that I was courting? U think her CEO papa really had his eyes on me without me grabbin his attention with them Gunnin’. Anyways. The match will show how much my step scores really matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Regretting my own literacy right now
 
iamdamiancray said:
You didn’t know that I’m a gunner from my posts? Why do you think I’ve so much free time to write big posts here at SDN? I’m on my psych rotation. The doctor looks like a psycho himself. Explains. And steps were not that hard. Downside of SDN—always exaggerating. Sattar, Pathoma, UWorld, and occasionally Najeeb. I was good. Med school is not hard. It’s work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
iamdamiancray said:
I love this group. It did happen. But how can I make a case when you won’t even trust my pics. Remember that girl that I was courting? U think her CEO papa really had his eyes on me without me grabbin his attention with them Gunnin’. Anyways. The match will show how much my step scores really matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Lol
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Lol
Click to expand...

IMG_3940.jpg


Wanna Lol about this one, too? Or do I need to give you my COMLEX as well?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Guys who cares if the NRMP classifies DO as AMG or not.. it’s actually in the process of doing this and lumping DO and MD as “AMG”, prbly due to the merger, this wont matter much when that does happen because PD’s at some top programs just won’t look at the DO apps anyway, luckily for DO’s the majority of the prorgams in competitive fields actually did make it to acgme accreditation and these programs will atleast still look at competitive apps, so will other Community , and low/mid tier university MD programs even in competitive fields from time to time, the only time it does matter is if someone is in it for the prestige of the program which most folks aren’t, I mean if you wanted prestige going to a DO school you should have tried for top/mid tier MD plain and simple, but if you work hard you can match ortho, optho, ent, uro. Etc. sure it might be at a former AOA program or lower tier md program but who cares you will still be a ortho surgeon or uro or whatever.
 
FutureDoctor5000 said:
Guys who cares if the NRMP classifies DO as AMG or not.. it’s actually in the process of doing this and lumping DO and MD as “AMG”, prbly due to the merger, this wont matter much when that does happen because PD’s at some top programs just won’t look at the DO apps anyway, luckily for DO’s the majority of the prorgams in competitive fields actually did make it to acgme accreditation and these programs will atleast still look at competitive apps, so will other Community , and low/mid tier university MD programs even in competitive fields from time to time, the only time it does matter is if someone is in it for the prestige of the program which most folks aren’t, I mean if you wanted prestige going to a DO school you should have tried for top/mid tier MD plain and simple, but if you work hard you can match ortho, optho, ent, uro. Etc. sure it might be at a former AOA program or lower tier md program but who cares you will still be a ortho surgeon or uro or whatever.
Click to expand...
Isn’t it literally impossible for a DO to match an MD residency in ortho and uro currently? This is before step one becomes pass/fail too.
 
ciestar said:
Welp, I’ll keep my eye on the LECOM match lists to see how well you’re able to put your money with your mouth is.

PS: i can photoshop too
Click to expand...

You guys will doubt me even if I send a notarized copy of my USMLE score with Dr. Sattar’s kiss on it. So Idrc what you have to say. You should keep an eye on the LECOM match list to see if my 275 actually will help me or no. My experience with American education is—usually scores mean very less. I clearly remember back in high school that I had gotten into this prestigious university premedicine program and someone with like 1/4th my SAT score also got in b/c of some involvement and connection with this extracurricular organization. To give u a hint on what that university was, I’ll tell you that some moms pay a couple of million dollars to get their “extremely athletic” daughters into the school who goes there to flirt with the college football stars. Obvious by now. Of course I didn’t feel like going there anymore. My ears were literally burning when I figured that out. I spent 6 months preppin’ for the SATs and had invested 4K in classes. I was 20 points off of being a super-scorer. And someone of that caliber literally walked with me doing half that work. This time when I prepped for the USMLE and COMLEX, I repeated the process and as you see I succeeded. But I was completely in distrust of the American mindset when preppin’. If I was like in a developing country like India, this score alone would take me to places. Idek whether this will mean much here. Never did. That’s why I just go whatever and setback. I did my work. Let fate do the rest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Just for all the pre-meds who might wander by, no DO school has their students take boards in January.....
Click to expand...

How’s my USMLE connected to my school? My school dictates my COMLEX, not USMLE. Something other DO kids should also keep in mind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
iamdamiancray said:
How’s my USMLE connected to my school? My school dictates my COMLEX, not USMLE. Something other DO kids should also keep in mind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
If you had taken USMLE you would know your school has to prove your eligibility. No school would do that in Jan of second year as you claim.

Now I am curious, did you steal your brothers score?
 
BorntobeDO? said:
If you had taken USMLE you would know your school has to prove your eligibility. No school would do that in Jan of second year as you claim.
Click to expand...

And you run my school? You know who I am? The ties that I have with my school? Big detectives. It’s a private school and I know my people. How hard is it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BorntobeDO? said:
If you had taken USMLE you would know your school has to prove your eligibility. No school would do that in Jan of second year as you claim.

Now I am curious, did you steal your brothers score?
Click to expand...

My brother is younger than me, sir. He’s starting BS/DO, sir. I’m way older than him. Ugh, here goes the trolls again. Bruh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Lol
Click to expand...

This is the right Lol moment. DO kids can’t believe that other people gets good scores. I know several people from my school who got in the 280s. Who do you think are the 2-3 urology, neurosurgery matches from DO schools? The gunners. Chillax peeps. And stop trolling. I got shelf coming up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
iamdamiancray said:
And you run my school? You know who I am? The ties that I have with my school? Big detectives. It’s a private school
iamdamiancray said:
My brother is younger than me, sir. He’s starting BS/DO, sir. I’m way older than him. Ugh, here goes the trolls again. Bruh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
It’s pretty hard to keep your stories straight. They seem to change a lot. And I am not that vested.
iamdamiancray said:
This is the right Lol moment. DO kids can’t believe that other people gets good scores. I know several people from my school who got in the 280s. Who do you think are the 2-3 urology, neurosurgery matches from DO schools? The gunners. Chillax peeps. And stop trolling. I got shelf coming up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I believe people score that high, I am just having trouble believing you did based on prior posts. And you’re the one trolling in this thread, not us.
 
BorntobeDO? said:
It’s pretty hard to keep your stories straight. They seem to change a lot. And I am not that vested.

I believe people score that high, I am just having trouble believing you did based on prior posts. And you’re the one trolling in this thread, not us.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

I’m Damian. My last name is not be disclosed because it’s SDN. It’s long, as well. I’ve two brothers. One is starting BS/DO. He graduates high school this May. I even have a post up for when I asked SDN about choosing a school. He dipped on BS/MD like me and is starting BS/DO. The other one is in eighth grade. I come from a physician family. 80% of my family members are DOs. We’re immigrants who were given chances to be someone out here by the DO community, hence proving my respect. Explains why I’m here. I’ve been enjoying med school. I’ve been performing well as well. Over these years, my family has established strong connections with DO medical schools. As I said earlier, this comes with pros and cons (think back to me courting that girl). I’d have told you guys my Instagram handle. But again it’s SDN. I actually wanna hang out with you guys in real life. But let’s keep SDN in the middle. BorntobeDO, you’ll be a great family physician and they’re well needed and respected. I’m not trolling. Just having a convo with people who are on the same boat as I am.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
iamdamiancray said:
I’m Damian. My last name is not be disclosed because it’s SDN. It’s long, as well. I’ve two brothers. One is starting BS/DO. He graduates high school this May. I even have a post up for when I asked SDN about choosing a school. He dipped on BS/MD like me and is starting BS/DO. The other one is in eighth grade. I come from a physician family. 80% of my family members are DOs. We’re immigrants who were given chances to be someone out here by the DO community, hence proving my respect. Explains why I’m here. I’ve been enjoying med school. I’ve been performing well as well. Over these years, my family has established strong connections with DO medical schools. As I said earlier, this comes with pros and cons (think back to me courting that girl). I’d have told you guys my Instagram handle. But again it’s SDN. I actually wanna hang out with you guys in real life. But let’s keep SDN in the middle. BorntobeDO, you’ll be a great family physician and they’re well needed and respected. I’m not trolling. Just having a convo with people who are on the same boat as I am.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Welp, that ended predictably.
 
I was reading through posts only to see this:

Screenshot_20200221-064133~2.png

Banned! Mods, thank you for allowing me to start my day off with hilarity!
 
Startingover123 said:
Impressive. Do you think it will be harder to match those places without a step one score?
Click to expand...

Even with Step 1 scores it's a seriously uphill battle that you should probably start working on early, getting connected in the field and getting letters from people who are well known. Otherwise, as you can see if you look at the match statistics, people applying to those fields from DO schools have a terrible time. The match rates are terrible, and I know at least in Ophthalmology these are very strong applications that are often tossed in the trash bin because people don't want a DO coming to their program. Without a Step 1 score, it's going to get worse and there is no doubt about that.

I just spoke to a Chief, PD, and some other Ophthalmology faculty members about the Step 1 change - they are not fans of the change, and they said that it will make it harder for them to get people in for rotations from lower tier schools, because school name already played a huge role and now it's literally the only thing they're going to able to see when people are applying for aways. They said they might look at clinical grades more aggressively, but they also stated they realize that things aren't standardized and there is grade inflation at various institutions. They are convinced that this change hurts anyone not going to a top or strong mid-tier MD school. When I asked about Step 2 CK, they said that they may be transitioning to that but they don't know yet, and that even if they do, it still bodes poorly for DOs/IMGs/FMGs trying to get into Ophthalmology because they know that most programs, especially ones that are reputable, will simply not interview DOs/IMGs/FMGs unless they had ties to the program or have letters from well-known faculty. And we know that in order for DOs to even get letters, you have to rotate (one of the major downsides of going to a DO school is that you don't have a home Ophthalmology department, leaving you screwed from the start unless you know people from before school). So you're basically stuck in a catch-22.

One of the residents said that there is a program nearby in a similarly competitive specialty that has already started talking about a Step 2 CK requirement.
 
Hey everyone. I turned my application into DMU in late January and got a II. I was wondering if with the P/F decision. Is it worth going? Would DMU be better to go to than CCOM. Or since it’s rural would it be harder to network. Thanks!
 
BTR41 said:
Hey everyone. I turned my application into DMU in late January and got a II. I was wondering if with the P/F decision. Is it worth going? Would DMU be better to go to than CCOM. Or since it’s rural would it be harder to network. Thanks!
Click to expand...

You got into CCOM so aim for that, it is up to you if you want to attend DMU interview, but do realize that the adcom will be quite picky this late into the cycle. If your goal is to match into primary care then you have nothing to worry about going DO.
 
BorntobeDO? said:
Low tier MD will have way more options than ‘upper tier’ DO. Don’t kid yourself. The USMD value was increased substantially by this.
Click to expand...
I had a question. Just curious. Not a medical student, nor a physician, but considering medical school in the future. Not planning on going to Caribbean MD program either .
How will this Pass/Fail affect people who go to the Caribbean route, even the “Big 4”, is the Caribbean route finished? Will Caribbean schools close due to this curriculum change?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rx1992 said:
I had a question. Just curious. Not a medical student, nor a physician, but considering medical school in the future. Not planning on going to Caribbean MD program either .
How will this Pass/Fail affect people who go to the Caribbean route, even the “Big 4”, is the Caribbean route finished? Will Caribbean schools close due to this curriculum change?
Click to expand...

Don’t have the figures off the top of my head, but there are still more residency positions available than there are graduates of American schools. IMGs and FMGs are still in the game, irrespective of the “Step 2 is King” or “Pedigree is King” perspectives.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Just for all the pre-meds who might wander by, no DO school has their students take boards in January.....
Click to expand...
We're in February and still 4 of the 3rd years at my school haven't taken COMLEX level 1, so I don't know if that's true at every school. These 4 might have to delay a year though.

Sent from my SM-G973U using SDN mobile
 
Last edited:
Cranjis McBasketball said:
Referring to January of your 2nd year
Click to expand...
This may be an ignorant question, as mentioned before I start school this fall, but would it be feasible to take Step 1 in January of 2nd year when they transition to P/F? I understand why individuals have to wait with how step 1 is scored currently, but do you think that would still apply? Clearly you would still be required to take courses during spring of 2nd year because that knowledge is important, but would you have gained enough knowledge to pass step 1? Especially if you began preparing with Zanki etc starting day 1?
 
GP0618 said:
This may be an ignorant question, as mentioned before I start school this fall, but would it be feasible to take Step 1 in January of 2nd year when they transition to P/F? I understand why individuals have to wait with how step 1 is scored currently, but do you think that would still apply? Clearly you would still be required to take courses during spring of 2nd year because that knowledge is important, but would you have gained enough knowledge to pass step 1? Especially if you began preparing with Zanki etc starting day 1?
Click to expand...
You won't be doing yourself any favor rushing Step 1, plus your school has to approve you to take it, and they likely won't do that this early.
 
BTR41 said:
Hey everyone. I turned my application into DMU in late January and got a II. I was wondering if with the P/F decision. Is it worth going? Would DMU be better to go to than CCOM. Or since it’s rural would it be harder to network. Thanks!
Click to expand...
DMU is in Des Moines, a city of about 750,000. Has 4 pretty large hospitals. Would not call it rural hahaha but cost is the biggest factor here.
Side note but it is always hilarious what people decide is rural when they’re from huge cities
 
Chibucks15 said:
DMU is in Des Moines, a city of about 750,000. Has 4 pretty large hospitals. Would not call it rural hahaha but cost is the biggest factor here.
Side note but it is always hilarious what people decide is rural when they’re from huge cities
Click to expand...
Don't you know anything less than 1 Million inhabitants is rural? LOL
 
libertyyne said:
Its weird to me that psych likes to claim that they are somewhat special when it comes to board scores.
Click to expand...

Humor me. In what other specialty do people with 240s and 250s with research up the wazoo not get ranked (or get ranked very low) while 210s with no research get the top slot?
 
Mass Effect said:
Humor me. In what other specialty do people with 240s and 250s with research up the wazoo not get ranked (or get ranked very low) while 210s with no research get the top slot?
Click to expand...
The data indicates the higher the step score the higher likelihood of match. So on average those with higher step scores are getting ranked much more often to match.
 
I assume every person posting and viewing this thread has seen the UNC midlevel "residency" article.

Really try and looks at things objectively about taking on half a mil in debt to become a DO in a field where people are not even going to consider you an expert commodity and a 23 year old nurse can do your job.
 
jw3600 said:
I assume every person posting and viewing this thread has seen the UNC midlevel "residency" article.

Really try and looks at things objectively about taking on half a mil in debt to become a DO in a field where people are not even going to consider you an expert commodity and a 23 year old nurse can do your job.
Click to expand...
Lol damm is the future really that gloom for PC?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Thoughts on taking STEP 1 vs STEP 2 as a DO student
Replies
10
Views
3K
curiousaboutpod
C
Y
Matching Psych as a DO student
Replies
6
Views
1K
Futureleader2024
Futureleader2024
MonsterGod
  • Question Question
How do I ask my doctor if they’re covering the publication fee?
Replies
6
Views
760
AlbinoHawk DO
AlbinoHawk DO
magician7772222
How big of a deal is P/F vs no graded
Replies
17
Views
2K
Goro
Goro
E
Wanting to see the path ahead as an OMS-1. Is it possible to do internal medicine and general surgery?
Replies
19
Views
3K
dozitgetchahi
D
Top