Going to Dental School Will Almost Surely Wreck Your Finances

[DentistScientist]

For international students would you recommend this route? Because I can only apply to private schools which will leave me in 400-600k in debt

You cannot apply for the federal loan. So you need to be coming from a wealthy fam. I know couple of international folks blowing $150k per year in NYUCD and driving Mercedes and BMW

When they are in third year, they date model looking girls who go to Parson, FIT, and SVA and go to luxurious restaurants in manhattan.

They clearly are not interested in the dentist' income. What they seek are doctor status and maybe education.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MaizeGoBlue]

If people are upset about this thread's title, why isn't this one locked and the other StudentLoanPlanner thread stickied?

 

[allantois]

If people are upset about this thread's title, why isn't this one locked and the other StudentLoanPlanner thread stickied?

Seems like our moderator is taking critique of dental schools personally. Well, when one can't make any good arguments, I guess closing threads is an option.

So far all I've heard from the side that argues that costs don't matter is that, either:
1) The government will forgive their loans
Or
2) They are hard-working and will be in the 95th percentile of dentists by income

 

[torque]

If people are upset about this thread's title, why isn't this one locked and the other StudentLoanPlanner thread stickied?

The moderators were not the ones who were "upset" about the thread's title. They only provided a solution to how to go about changing the title if the OP chooses to do so. Also this thread had a robust discussion on the same topic as the other one, hence I am assuming this one survived. Lastly, I think that sticking a thread requires unanimous (more or less) votes of confidence from the moderators and it didn't come to that, I assume again.

Seems like our moderator is taking critique of dental schools personally. Well, when one can't make any good arguments, I guess closing threads is an option.

This statement is not very respectful and offensive to a certain degree. There were some very good arguments made in this thread from both the moderators and pre-dental students. Depicting moderators as a pouty child and abusing powers is just not correct at all.

 

[Student Loan Planner]

It's my understanding you have to be a donor to change the title, so I sought to deliver valuable info on projected self financed dental school cost with a more reasonable title by starting another thread.

I've done my best to share stories of dentists out there that will hopefully inform your choice as to whether or not dental school is right for you. Wish you all the best in making this important decision.

 

[deleted547631]

It's my understanding you have to be a donor to change the title, so I sought to deliver valuable info on projected self financed dental school cost with a more reasonable title by starting another thread.

I've done my best to share stories of dentists out there that will hopefully inform your choice as to whether or not dental school is right for you. Wish you all the best in making this important decision.

Good job getting this information out there! I've encountered a fair amount of resistance here, from current moderators even, when sharing my views on where dentistry is headed and why pursuing medicine may be the better option for those so inclined. There's no right answer, really, but hopefully your message gets across far and wide. Different perspectives help to inform.

 

[GypsyHummus]

People always get offended at first when you bring a dose of reality to their "dream".

As I mentioned in the previous posts, I still think dentistry is worth it due to the four years of schooling and lifestyle compared to other forms of medicine, but I completely understand the financial risk. That said, I myself don't have to live in California or New York, and I would be willing to live off of 20k/year for five years until my debt is paid. Others spend money like its water on a hot day, and I understand that as well, BMWs are nice lol.

I go back to the college example. I would rather be 500k in debt making 130k/year than 100k in debt topped off at 35k/year.

 

[rivarat]

Depicting moderators as a pouty child and abusing powers is just not correct at all.

moderators are people too

 

[Student Loan Planner]

People always get offended at first when you bring a dose of reality to their "dream".

As I mentioned in the previous posts, I still think dentistry is worth it due to the four years of schooling and lifestyle compared to other forms of medicine, but I completely understand the financial risk. That said, I myself don't have to live in California or New York, and I would be willing to live off of 20k/year for five years until my debt is paid. Others spend money like its water on a hot day, and I understand that as well, BMWs are nice lol.

I go back to the college example. I would rather be 500k in debt making 130k/year than 100k in debt topped off at 35k/year.

Would you rather be 500k in debt making 130k a year or 25k in debt making 55k per year. I think that's the relevant comparison for most people that can get into dental school

 

[LLUDDS15]

I graduated with 484k in student debt and I'm doing VERY well. You just have to know how to take advantage of the programs available to you. I'm on PAYE. When I get done after paying for 20 years (when my debt is forgiven) I will have paid 520k total in student debt. My annual income through my corporation 120k per year, so I pay around 10% per month on my student loan payment (around $,1200 per mo). 10% of 120k is 12,000 per year x 20 years = $240,000. My tax hit in year 20 (based on my outstanding balance, accrued interest) will be around 280k (per my CPA). That's $520,000 to spread out my student debt over 20 years and allow me to invest heavily during that time...which BY FAR outweighs paying off my student debt standard 10 year method. Pre-Dents, be wise with your money, but don't let anyone be negative Nancy and tell you the sky is falling. If you're willing to be flexible, you will be rewarded. This had me scared to death when I went to dental school.

The next thing is, how willing are you to move into a less competitive, less insurance driven area? If you don't have to live in a super saturated area (SoCal and many others)..you can do very well. The selling doc that I bought my practice from in Nov of 2016 was taking home 495k per year, working 4 days per week. I'm 40 miles from a major city. Live in the middle, happy life. If you absolutely must practice in a super saturated area and take every insurance known to man, you will probably not be able to do as well.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Would you rather be 500k in debt making 130k a year or 25k in debt making 55k per year. I think that's the relevant comparison for most people that can get into dental school

Where is this magical college that costs 25k? Community college with a track to nursing?

Most state universities are 20-25k per year.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I graduated with 484k in student debt and I'm doing VERY well. You just have to know how to take advantage of the programs available to you. I'm on PAYE. When I get done after paying for 20 years (when my debt is forgiven) I will have paid 520k total in student debt. My annual income through my corporation 120k per year, so I pay around 10% per month on my student loan payment (around $,1200 per mo). 10% of 120k is 12,000 per year x 20 years = $240,000. My tax hit in year 20 (based on my outstanding balance, accrued interest) will be around 280k (per my CPA). That's $520,000 to spread out my student debt over 20 years and allow me to invest heavily during that time...which BY FAR outweighs paying off my student debt standard 10 year method. Pre-Dents, be wise with your money, but don't let anyone be negative Nancy and tell you the sky is falling. If you're willing to be flexible, you will be rewarded. This had me scared to death when I went to dental school.

The next thing is, how willing are you to move into a less competitive, less insurance driven area? If you don't have to live in a super saturated area (SoCal and many others)..you can do very well. The selling doc that I bought my practice from in Nov of 2016 was taking home 495k per year, working 4 days per week. I'm 40 miles from a major city. Live in the middle, happy life. If you absolutely must practice in a super saturated area and take every insurance known to man, you will probably not be able to do as well.

What happens in 5 years if they decide to dissolve PAYE?

Everyone expecting the government to come riding in on a white horse to save the day is in for a rude awakening when there is no money left. Right now, the economy is in fantasy land with how interest rates are. These programs are unstastanable, and will be the first to go when cuts are up, after all, docs make plenty of money.

 

[Screwtape]

I graduated with 484k in student debt and I'm doing VERY well. You just have to know how to take advantage of the programs available to you. I'm on PAYE. When I get done after paying for 20 years (when my debt is forgiven) I will have paid 520k total in student debt. My annual income through my corporation 120k per year, so I pay around 10% per month on my student loan payment (around $,1200 per mo). 10% of 120k is 12,000 per year x 20 years = $240,000. My tax hit in year 20 (based on my outstanding balance, accrued interest) will be around 280k (per my CPA). That's $520,000 to spread out my student debt over 20 years and allow me to invest heavily during that time...which BY FAR outweighs paying off my student debt standard 10 year method. Pre-Dents, be wise with your money, but don't let anyone be negative Nancy and tell you the sky is falling. If you're willing to be flexible, you will be rewarded. This had me scared to death when I went to dental school.

The next thing is, how willing are you to move into a less competitive, less insurance driven area? If you don't have to live in a super saturated area (SoCal and many others)..you can do very well. The selling doc that I bought my practice from in Nov of 2016 was taking home 495k per year, working 4 days per week. I'm 40 miles from a major city. Live in the middle, happy life. If you absolutely must practice in a super saturated area and take every insurance known to man, you will probably not be able to do as well.

I saw your post on the other thread and it looks like you're on track for a gross income in the $500-600k range. I understand that you are an S corp, but where does all of the other money go if you're paying yourself $120k? PAYE ignores all other cash flow into your assets, just your income ? I assume you're doing this for tax and repayment benefits. If so, why not just pay yourself like $20k or even lower ?

 

[LLUDDS15]

I saw your post on the other thread and it looks like you're on track for a gross income in the $500-600k range. I understand that you are an S corp, but where does all of the other money go if you're paying yourself $120k? PAYE ignores all other cash flow into your assets, just your income ? I assume you're doing this for tax and repayment benefits. If so, why not just pay yourself like $20k or even lower ?

Because 120k is a realistic dentist salary as far as the government is concerned. PAYE is based only on what you EARN in a tax year (you and your spouse if you have one).

 

[Screwtape]

What happens in 5 years if they decide to dissolve PAYE?

Everyone expecting the government to come riding in on a white horse to save the day is in for a rude awakening when there is no money left. Right now, the economy is in fantasy land with how interest rates are. These programs are unstastanable, and will be the first to go when cuts are up, after all, docs make plenty of money.

I agree with your overall premise, but this guy is doing very well and could easily pay off his loans the traditional route. He is using PAYE for tax, wealth management, and interest benefits. @LLUDDS15 correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Screwtape]

Because 120k is a realistic dentist salary as far as the government is concerned. PAYE is based only on what you EARN in a tax year (you and your spouse if you have one).

So is what you are doing illegal/questionable? Are you putting down $120k to avoid an audit or more eyes on your books ?

 

[LLUDDS15]

What happens in 5 years if they decide to dissolve PAYE?

Everyone expecting the government to come riding in on a white horse to save the day is in for a rude awakening when there is no money left. Right now, the economy is in fantasy land with how interest rates are. These programs are unstastanable, and will be the first to go when cuts are up, after all, docs make plenty of money.

You could say that about everything, what if they decide to hike federal taxes to 90%? What if this, what if that...No one expects them to come riding in on a white horse, but I take advantage of the options that are given to me and try my best to take care of my family as best as possible. You sound sort of like a conspiracy theorist to be quite honest, so I'm sure there's no use in trying to convince you to do what's smartest and very obvious. That being said, I completely understand wanting to be debt free, I have that same goal in mind as well. But if I have to live 10 more years with a little debt to make my life more enjoyable, AND to make more off my investments than I'm paying out..why not?

Btw, they already took PAYE away, it's now REPAYE. I'm grandfathered into PAYE and it cannot be eliminated (my program). I am locked into a contract with the Dept of Education and Great Lakes Student Loans.

 

[LLUDDS15]

So is what you are doing illegal/questionable? Are you putting down $120k to avoid an audit or more eyes on your books ?

I wouldn't say it's illegal/questionable. My dental CPA recommends doing it, and says it's the industry norm. To be quite honest, as time goes on, I'll pay myself a little more to keep up with inflation and to keep my salary realistic. I pay myself through my S-corporation that owns my practice. Basically, I pay myself as a W2 salaried employeee. I pay myself as much or as little as I want. It gives me flexibility.

 

[Chipotlegonewild]

I graduated with 484k in student debt and I'm doing VERY well. You just have to know how to take advantage of the programs available to you. I'm on PAYE. When I get done after paying for 20 years (when my debt is forgiven) I will have paid 520k total in student debt. My annual income through my corporation 120k per year, so I pay around 10% per month on my student loan payment (around $,1200 per mo). 10% of 120k is 12,000 per year x 20 years = $240,000. My tax hit in year 20 (based on my outstanding balance, accrued interest) will be around 280k (per my CPA). That's $520,000 to spread out my student debt over 20 years and allow me to invest heavily during that time...which BY FAR outweighs paying off my student debt standard 10 year method. Pre-Dents, be wise with your money, but don't let anyone be negative Nancy and tell you the sky is falling. If you're willing to be flexible, you will be rewarded. This had me scared to death when I went to dental school.

The next thing is, how willing are you to move into a less competitive, less insurance driven area? If you don't have to live in a super saturated area (SoCal and many others)..you can do very well. The selling doc that I bought my practice from in Nov of 2016 was taking home 495k per year, working 4 days per week. I'm 40 miles from a major city. Live in the middle, happy life. If you absolutely must practice in a super saturated area and take every insurance known to man, you will probably not be able to do as well.

What are you going to do if government gets rid/modifies those repayment plans?

 

[LLUDDS15]

Let me do some math for you guys.

Option A - pay off 485,000 student debt in 1o years under standard repayment.
Student loan payment = ~$5,700
Debt at end of 10 years = 0

Overall cost of option A = ~685,000 (cumulative pymts)
____________________________________________________________________________________
Option B - pay off 485,000 student debt in 20 years under PAYE (I'm not sure about REPAYE)
Student loan payment = 10% of what you earn, in my case, I pay myself 120k per year. =$1,200 payment per month
Debt at end of 20 years = 280k tax hit from forgiveness (CPA calculation)

Overall cost of option B= 240k (20 years of payments) + 280k tax hit = ~520,0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INVESTMENTS
Since I am paying literally every penny I can scrape for 10 years in option A, I cannot invest much at all. For simplicity, we will say give a liberal number of $1,000 per month, you'd be LUCKY to be able to do that under option A, btw.

So, now let's take the difference of monthly payments between Option A and Option B and invest them for 20 years and see what the difference is.

Option A - $1,000 @10% (realistic investment return over 20 years) = 210, 374 (you put in 120,000) for first 10 years,
then after 10 years you can invest the full $5,700 per month which yields you ~1.2 million.
So, this route, your total ROI is about 1.5 million or so and you've invested around 895k of your money.
You made 605k over 20 years basically. I do realize this doesn't take into account the growth along the way. But I'm doing both like this for simplicity and comparison.

Option B - $5700 per month - $1200 per month = $4,500 of money freed up and ready for investing.

$4,500 per month for 20 years at 10% yields me $3,402,134
I contributed $1,080,000 and,
I made $2,322,134

You made 605k and I made 2.32 million, and you get to call yourself "debt free" 10 years before me. What else do you get from it? You get a little less risk I guess, if the government implodes...but if it implodes THAT much, we have much bigger problems on our hands than just student loans.

 

[Likkriue]

The issue is there are a lot of spoiled dentists posting in this thread. every time I bring up 45k to live off of is very possible(median FAMILY income in the US is 55k) they always retort back with "wait till you have kids".

My Parents raised 6 kids on a combined 50k or less income working **** jobs. Mom worked in a sweatshop and my dad worked as a delivery guy. My mom doesn't get home till 11-12 at night and she leaves at 8 am.

Oh boohoo you are working as a dentist making 100k a year and barely have 40k left after taxes and loan repayment how will you survive!!!! Oh **** off.

 

[LLUDDS15]

What are you going to do if government gets rid/modifies those repayment plans?

I'm locked into a contract for PAYE. My financial advisors and CPA have both informed me not to worry about it, that I am "grandfathered" into this plan. As I stated above, they did indeed change the program around to make it more beneficial to them (the gov). They changed to "REPAYE"...but those that signed up under PAYE will be locked into it.

 

[LLUDDS15]

The issue is there are a lot of spoiled dentists posting in this thread. every time I bring up 45k to live off of is very possible(median FAMILY income in the US is 55k) they always retort back with "wait till you have kids".

My Parents raised 6 kids on a combined 50k or less income working **** jobs. Mom worked in a sweatshop and my dad worked as a delivery guy. My mom doesn't get home till 11-12 at night and she leaves at 8 am.

Oh boohoo you are working as a dentist making 100k a year and barely have 40k left after taxes, how will you survive!!!! Oh **** off.

Same here my friend, I drive a 2000 Ford F-150 pickup truck. I'm a simple country boy that was raised lower class/poor. I live the same way (just a little nicer) than I grew up. All the extra money I have goes straight into my investments (maybe a little into traveling with my wife, to keep our sanity). I don't need a 120,ooo dollar car to make me happy or a million dollar mansion. I enjoy simple things like taking the kids fishing, hunting, staying at a cabin in the mountains, etc.

 

[GypsyHummus]

The issue is there are a lot of spoiled dentists posting in this thread. every time I bring up 45k to live off of is very possible(median FAMILY income in the US is 55k) they always retort back with "wait till you have kids".

My Parents raised 6 kids on a combined 50k or less income working **** jobs. Mom worked in a sweatshop and my dad worked as a delivery guy. My mom doesn't get home till 11-12 at night and she leaves at 8 am.

Oh boohoo you are working as a dentist making 100k a year and barely have 40k left after taxes and loan repayment how will you survive!!!! Oh **** off.

But I want a new leased BMW every year for my wife that doesn't work, a new Mercedes sports car for me, a 750k house in a rich neighborhood, cruises and or airplane trips planned every six months. It's not fair, think of how miserable I'll be driving a $20k chevy for 10 years or heavens forbid, a used $10K 2012 Ford Fusion. My goodness, think of ME!

 

[GypsyHummus]

You could say that about everything, what if they decide to hike federal taxes to 90%? What if this, what if that...No one expects them to come riding in on a white horse, but I take advantage of the options that are given to me and try my best to take care of my family as best as possible. You sound sort of like a conspiracy theorist to be quite honest, so I'm sure there's no use in trying to convince you to do what's smartest and very obvious. That being said, I completely understand wanting to be debt free, I have that same goal in mind as well. But if I have to live 10 more years with a little debt to make my life more enjoyable, AND to make more off my investments than I'm paying out..why not?

Btw, they already took PAYE away, it's now REPAYE. I'm grandfathered into PAYE and it cannot be eliminated (my program). I am locked into a contract with the Dept of Education and Great Lakes Student Loans.

No, I totally agree, use the system to its full benefit and profit. You have a feduciary duty to your practice. It's off the back of the tax payers, people like me trying to make ends meet, but hey, might as well take advantage of it. I'd rather have it go to you as a working member of society rather than some war or foreign aid.

My point is, people should not count on this sort of thing because in four years time, I have a feeling we won't be living in a fantasy land of low interest rates and these loopholes. You said it yourself, the program you were on has already been dissolved.

 

[Incis0r]

Same here my friend, I drive a 2000 Ford F-150 pickup truck. I'm a simple country boy that was raised lower class/poor. I live the same way (just a little nicer) than I grew up. All the extra money I have goes straight into my investments (maybe a little into traveling with my wife, to keep our sanity). I don't need a 120,ooo dollar car to make me happy or a million dollar mansion. I enjoy simple things like taking the kids fishing, hunting, staying at a cabin in the mountains, etc.

You are my hero.

 

[pigman5010]

But I want a new leased BMW every year for my wife that doesn't work, a new Mercedes sports car for me, a 750k house in a rich neighborhood, cruises and or airplane trips planned every six months. It's not fair, think of how miserable I'll be driving a $20k chevy for 10 years or heavens forbid, a used $10K 2012 Ford Fusion. My goodness, think of ME!

Haha

Sent from my HTC_E9pw using SDN mobile

 

[LLUDDS15]

No, I totally agree, use the system to its full benefit and profit. You have a feduciary duty to your practice. It's off the back of the tax payers, people like me trying to make ends meet, but hey, might as well take advantage of it. I'd rather have it go to you as a working member of society rather than some war or foreign aid.

My point is, people should not count on this sort of thing because in four years time, I have a feeling we won't be living in a fantasy land of low interest rates and these loopholes. You said it yourself, the program you were on has already been dissolved.

PAYE has been discontinued, but the people who are in the program (signed up when it was still going) can stay with it. Trust me, you will absolutely pay your fair share to the government in due time, heck a major reason tuition costs are as high as they are in the first place has to do with them just handing out student loans like free candy.

I'm not really taking advantage of you, to be quite honest. For example, I served in the military and was paid peanuts for four years, I literally qualified to be on food stamps. If I gain back some of the lost time/money from the government (or "society") I think it's a fair deal. I'm still paying back the loans I took out from dental school, just at a much lower rate because I'm smart enough to use the system that's against me, against itself. Billionaires pay no taxes, scum pay no taxes, the complete burden of taxes lays on the upper middle class (dentists, MDs, lawyers, etc.). Not turning this into a political post at all, but I think the only fair way to do taxes is a flat percentage across the board of whatever you make. Everyone should contribute to the roads and schools we all use.

 

[Advance]

The issue is there are a lot of spoiled dentists posting in this thread. every time I bring up 45k to live off of is very possible(median FAMILY income in the US is 55k) they always retort back with "wait till you have kids".

My Parents raised 6 kids on a combined 50k or less income working **** jobs. Mom worked in a sweatshop and my dad worked as a delivery guy. My mom doesn't get home till 11-12 at night and she leaves at 8 am.

Oh boohoo you are working as a dentist making 100k a year and barely have 40k left after taxes and loan repayment how will you survive!!!! Oh **** off.

👍 My favorite post on this thread.

 

[Ollivander]

Student Loan Planner was put on Probationary Status and is no longer able to post here due to a moderator putting that hold on his account. I for one think what he's doing in this thread is very helpful and providing lots of quality insight that is not offered in any way by academic advisers and most student services. I do not believe he's trying to spam this sub-forum in any way, shape, or form. I wish there were more people like him providing unbiased and factual information so that we may accurately decide for ourselves if the debt associated with our specific dental school options is worth the price tag and time commitment. This thread is full of what most threads on this sub-forum aren't, and that's transparency. If there are any mods still lurking in this thread I really hope that you lift his probationary status that you've put on his account so that he may respond to any future pre-dental students that come along to seek answers before deciding on whether or not to pursue dentistry as a career. If not, future pre-dentals will just be blindly led into the profession by certain individuals on this forum that continue to repeat "If you really cared about being a dentist you shouldn't care about how much it costs." That statement is a dangerous guilt trip that could effectively ruin someone's entire life financially speaking if they decide to take that to heart and jump on that NYU/USC/etc acceptance.

 

[allantois]

@Winged Scapula

When things do go down in a few years from now, SDN wouldn't want to be on record for shooting/banning messengers and locking threads for simply collecting costs of attendance at D schools.

 

[LFA20]

What a shame. Someone is put under probationary status for helping predental/dental students.

 

[LFA20]

The issue is there are a lot of spoiled dentists posting in this thread. every time I bring up 45k to live off of is very possible(median FAMILY income in the US is 55k) they always retort back with "wait till you have kids".

My Parents raised 6 kids on a combined 50k or less income working **** jobs. Mom worked in a sweatshop and my dad worked as a delivery guy. My mom doesn't get home till 11-12 at night and she leaves at 8 am.

Oh boohoo you are working as a dentist making 100k a year and barely have 40k left after taxes and loan repayment how will you survive!!!! Oh **** off.

Well a lot of dental students don't want to go to dental school and end up with 40k left to live on. If you plan on living like your parents after paying your loans then that's up to you. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to make more.

 

[#cariology]

@Winged Scapula

When things do go down in a few years from now, SDN wouldn't want to be on record for shooting/banning messengers and locking threads for simply collecting costs of attendance at D schools.

FAKE NEWS

 

[torque]

Student Loan Planner was put on Probationary Status and is no longer able to post here due to a moderator putting that hold on his account. I for one think what he's doing in this thread is very helpful and providing lots of quality insight that is not offered in any way by academic advisers and most student services. I do not believe he's trying to spam this sub-forum in any way, shape, or form. I wish there were more people like him providing unbiased and factual information so that we may accurately decide for ourselves if the debt associated with our specific dental school options is worth the price tag and time commitment. This thread is full of what most threads on this sub-forum aren't, and that's transparency. If there are any mods still lurking in this thread I really hope that you lift his probationary status that you've put on his account so that he may respond to any future pre-dental students that come along to seek answers before deciding on whether or not to pursue dentistry as a career. If not, future pre-dentals will just be blindly led into the profession by certain individuals on this forum that continue to repeat "If you really cared about being a dentist you shouldn't care about how much it costs." That statement is a dangerous guilt trip that could effectively ruin someone's entire life financially speaking if they decide to take that to heart and jump on that NYU/USC/etc acceptance.

I'm not a moderator nor can I speak for them. But if your decision to pursue dentistry or not hinges upon talking to a person you "met" online, then I think maybe you should not pursue dentistry at all. BEFORE you set your heart on becoming a dentist, talk to your dentist, your neighbor's dentist, your neighbor's dentist's dentist, shadow, observe, talk to financial counselors, school counselors, talk to the schools, talk to your parents, talk to your cat, but do be mindful of information you gather especially if it is from someone on the internet. The OP brings a legitimate concern, which older folks never had to worry about. But he is not the only person to talk about it nor is he the most qualified!!
The truth is dentists will have a comfortable way of lifestyle (to a varying degree) as long as he/she learns to manage his/her debt early on.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Didn't know there was Pollitically Correct culture on the dental forums.

 

[Winged Scapula]

@Winged Scapula

When things do go down in a few years from now, SDN wouldn't want to be on record for shooting/banning messengers and locking threads for simply collecting costs of attendance at D schools.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here but I'm sure SDN will survive.

Decisions about administrative action are made as a team. So calls for "revoking moderator privileges", retaliatory reporting of staff reflect a misunderstanding of administrative action. Users are not privy to what happens behind the scenes but can be assured that users are not sanctioned without sufficient reason to do so. While many of you are very supportive of Student Loan Planner, we received just as many complaints about his presence and activities here. Sometimes decisions will be controversial and some will be unhappy; the decision must take into account what is best for the community as a whole.

Finally, it is a TOS violation of cross post or post multiple threads on the same topic. There was no need to have 2 threads so one was appropriately closed.

 

[Ollivander]

I'm not a moderator nor can I speak for them. But if your decision to pursue dentistry or not hinges upon talking to a person you "met" online, then I think maybe you should not pursue dentistry at all. BEFORE you set your heart on becoming a dentist, talk to your dentist, your neighbor's dentist, your neighbor's dentist's dentist, shadow, observe, talk to financial counselors, school counselors, talk to the schools, talk to your parents, talk to your cat, but do be mindful of information you gather especially if it is from someone on the internet. The OP brings a legitimate concern, which older folks never had to worry about. But he is not the only person to talk about it nor is he the most qualified!!
The truth is dentists will have a comfortable way of lifestyle (to a varying degree) as long as he/she learns to manage his/her debt early on.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using an online platform as a medium to seek advice. You're not going to get specifics like the kind given in this thread for free from a financial counselor. It's just not going to happen. People in general have other priorities in their life rather than to help college students choose the optimal career path, especially for free. I for one did the majority of things you listed above and was able to make my own informed decision on what I thought was best for my future. However, I think what the OP is doing is a very noble and kind thing of him to do with his free time. He may not be the most qualified, but he certainly seems qualified and competent enough to speak on the financial aspects associated with choosing to go into X profession. Nobody is saying to take the OP as your only source of whether or not to choose X profession as your future career. As you said, he's just one source of a multitude of sources you could be utilizing.

 

[DentistScientist]

Now we know what Student Loan Planner tells us is the TRUTH.

If not, why would moderators put him on probationary status and try to cover the sun with their own palms?

Expensive private schools need to make money by making these uninformed souls to take out half million dollars. So they filed multiple complaints.

I would rather take a gap year, study for DAT like one entire year, score 26, and save $200k by going to a state school.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Likkriue]

Well a lot of dental students don't want to go to dental school and end up with 40k left to live on. If you plan on living like your parents after paying your loans then that's up to you. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to make more.

Who put a gun to their heads and told them to go to dental school or bust? You are right there's nothing with making more.
You know what IS wrong? Doing something and then complain about it afterwards and blame everyone but themselves.

 

[Ollivander]

Finally, it is a TOS violation of cross post or post multiple threads on the same topic. There was no need to have 2 threads so one was appropriately closed.

This seems fair. I have no problem with the other thread being closed in favor of this one.

While many of you are very supportive of Student Loan Planner, we received just as many complaints about his presence and activities here. Sometimes decisions will be controversial and some will be unhappy; the decision must take into account what is best for the community as a whole.

While that's understandable, you're also not going to have many if any people PMing moderators in an effort to keep a poster around versus those who PM moderators to ban a poster. The only people who normally PM moderators about another poster is usually done as a complaint, so the system is organized in such a way that it's designed to have more complaints than not. So it can be seen by a moderator's perspective that the majority of people are taking issue with Student Loan Planner when that may not be the case. Some people are just taking what he's saying as a personal attack on their individual careers when it's not that at all. They're just getting upset at decisions they may have made when looking back in hindsight.

 

[torque]

I don't think there's anything wrong with using an online platform as a medium to seek advice. You're not going to get specifics like the kind given in this thread for free from a financial counselor. It's just not going to happen. People in general have other priorities in their life rather than to help college students choose the optimal career path, especially for free. I for one did the majority of things you listed above and was able to make my own informed decision on what I thought was best for my future. However, I think what the OP is doing is a very noble and kind thing of him to do with his free time. He may not be the most qualified, but he certainly seems qualified and competent enough to speak on the financial aspects associated with choosing to go into X profession. Nobody is saying to take the OP as your only source of whether or not to choose X profession as your future career. As you said, he's just one source of a multitude of sources you could be utilizing.

I agree that he COULD be one source of many others. But what I am worried about gathered from his advice given in this thread, I was not given much impressions that he has done his homework enough to give advice to pre-dental students who tend to be (sorry if I am generalizing) very vulnerable and who are at very very very crucial phase of life. I wanted to make sure that the pre-dental students here do more research rather than just taking his information wholeheartedly.

 

[allantois]

I'm not a moderator nor can I speak for them. But if your decision to pursue dentistry or not hinges upon talking to a person you "met" online, then I think maybe you should not pursue dentistry at all. BEFORE you set your heart on becoming a dentist, talk to your dentist, your neighbor's dentist, your neighbor's dentist's dentist, shadow, observe, talk to financial counselors, school counselors, talk to the schools, talk to your parents, talk to your cat, but do be mindful of information you gather especially if it is from someone on the internet. The OP brings a legitimate concern, which older folks never had to worry about. But he is not the only person to talk about it nor is he the most qualified!!
The truth is dentists will have a comfortable way of lifestyle (to a varying degree) as long as he/she learns to manage his/her debt early on.

Unlike the rest of us on here, Student Loan Planner is not an anonymous user as he has both his picture up as well as a link to a podcast he made. Talking of credibility and accountability for what ppl post here.

My reference to things going down, was in regards to dentistry. But unlike our counterparts on the pharmacy forum who embrace the true state of affairs in their field, on this forum attempts to censure information are still alive and well.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I agree that he COULD be one source of many others. But what I am worried about gathered from his advice given in this thread, I was not given much impressions that he has done his homework enough to give advice to pre-dental students who tend to be (sorry if I am generalizing) very vulnerable and who are at very very very crucial phase of life. I wanted to make sure that the pre-dental students here do more research rather than just taking his information wholeheartedly.

And that's where the community comes in.

Obviously I believe strongly in the community we've built here but SDN should never be the sole source of information. It should be used as a resource but users need to do their due diligence and verify what they've seen here with other sources of information. If what's posted by another user seems outside the standard, the community needs to come together to help those who may be vulnerable or naive and help them see another POV.

There is a reason why SDN does not endorse any user with commercial product or services; it is difficult if not impossible for us to verify the quality and veracity of their information and product.

 

[rivarat]

@Winged Scapula and @schmoob

Ban me too.

 

[Ollivander]

I agree that he COULD be one source of many others. But what I am worried about gathered from his advice given in this thread, I was not given much impressions that he has done his homework enough to give advice to pre-dental students who tend to be (sorry if I am generalizing) very vulnerable and who are at very very very crucial phase of life. I wanted to make sure that the pre-dental students here do more research rather than just taking his information wholeheartedly.

That's fair, and I agree with you. I remember how vulnerable I was at 20/21 and how I put a lot of weight into what was posted here. However, this thread is a lot more justifiable and sound than the majority of threads posted in this sub-forum. I see this thread as a counter-balance to the behemoth amount of threads posted here daily offering out advice with very little to no reasoning to that advice. It happens regularly, except people don't take issue with that advice because the post is three lines long instead of 23 pages long.

 

[Winged Scapula]

@Winged Scapula and @schmoob

Ban me too.

No one has been banned in this thread, so I am unclear as to your use of the term to infer other bans have occurred.

If you would like to have your account deleted, please send a message to the Help Desk: Deleting My Account

 

[torque]

Unlike the rest of us on here, Student Loan Planner is not an anonymous user as he has both his picture up as well as a link to a podcast he made. Talking of credibility and accountability for what ppl post here.

I was obviously comparing him to real people, not the other users on here.

 

[rivarat]

No one has been banned in this thread, so I am unclear as to your use of the term to infer other bans have occurred.

If you would like to have your account deleted, please send a message to the Help Desk: Deleting My Account

Thank you, request submitted.

 

[Student Loan Planner]

I'm locked into a contract for PAYE. My financial advisors and CPA have both informed me not to worry about it, that I am "grandfathered" into this plan. As I stated above, they did indeed change the program around to make it more beneficial to them (the gov). They changed to "REPAYE"...but those that signed up under PAYE will be locked into it.

Your financial advisor and CPA are incorrect @LLUDDS15 that PAYE is a contract. While I think there is a reasonable chance you'll be able to use PAYE for the duration of the loan term until forgiveness (20 years), PAYE is absolutely not a contract and no one is locked into it or guaranteed its usage. PAYE is an executive order signed by President Obama from 2011, and REPAYE is also an executive order from 2015. In contrast, IBR is derived from an act of Congress passed in 2007.

Trump could eliminate PAYE and REPAYE with one swoop of the pen if he wanted to and there is no contractual violation. PAYE and REPAYE are executive branch orders derived from the law signed by Congress in 2007. Trump has proposed combining PAYE and REPAYE into a new income driven repayment plan that would be 12.5% of income and 15 years until forgiveness. That's more generous than PAYE and REPAYE, however I doubt it would pass muster when Congressional Republicans urge him not to pass it. He could also choose to eliminate PAYE and REPAYE and put everyone back on IBR, and there would be no borrower recourse for this except calling your Congressional representatives and saying how angry you are about it.

PSLF however is written into the promissory note as it's from the 2007 law that created IBR. That's got a much stronger case for existing into the future.

@Winged Scapula my intention in starting the other thread was to introduce new helpful info, the spreadsheet with estimates of COA for 2021, under a less hyperbolic title that offended fewer people. Apologies for violating the TOS. I'm sure people are upset by some of the stuff I've been writing, heck some of it might be inaccurate or incomplete. I'm just trying to help.