Going to Dental School Will Almost Surely Wreck Your Finances

[Student Loan Planner]

PAYE has been discontinued, but the people who are in the program (signed up when it was still going) can stay with it. Trust me, you will absolutely pay your fair share to the government in due time, heck a major reason tuition costs are as high as they are in the first place has to do with them just handing out student loans like free candy.

I'm not really taking advantage of you, to be quite honest. For example, I served in the military and was paid peanuts for four years, I literally qualified to be on food stamps. If I gain back some of the lost time/money from the government (or "society") I think it's a fair deal. I'm still paying back the loans I took out from dental school, just at a much lower rate because I'm smart enough to use the system that's against me, against itself. Billionaires pay no taxes, scum pay no taxes, the complete burden of taxes lays on the upper middle class (dentists, MDs, lawyers, etc.). Not turning this into a political post at all, but I think the only fair way to do taxes is a flat percentage across the board of whatever you make. Everyone should contribute to the roads and schools we all use.

Another point @LLUDDS15 is that PAYE has definitely not been discontinued. If you took out loans for the first time after Oct 2007 and at least 1 loan after October 2011 then you're eligible. REPAYE is open to anyone with Direct loans. You can choose between both plans if you have eligibility for both. It's between REPAYE and IBR only for folks who are ineligible for PAYE.

For what it's worth, I ran the numbers through my own calculator based on differing income numbers both low and high, and I found the tax penalty to be between $350,000 to $400,000 in 20 years. That's still better than refinancing and paying it back for sure, but the accountants numbers seem off to me. I'm not trying to be disrespectful just helpful. Hard for that tone to come off right online. Also those numbers could be much higher if they raise marginal tax rates. They could also be much lower too if they pass a bailout bill for student loan borrowers that makes forgiven balances tax free. Either way it sounds like a reasonable approach that you're taking.

This is not a comment about your advisor or accountant in particular, but a lot of advisors and / or accountants try to appear competent on student loans to win business in other areas.

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[LLUDDS15]

Your financial advisor and CPA are incorrect @LLUDDS15 that PAYE is a contract. While I think there is a reasonable chance you'll be able to use PAYE for the duration of the loan term until forgiveness (20 years), PAYE is absolutely not a contract and no one is locked into it or guaranteed its usage. PAYE is an executive order signed by President Obama from 2011, and REPAYE is also an executive order from 2015. In contrast, IBR is derived from an act of Congress passed in 2007.

Trump could eliminate PAYE and REPAYE with one swoop of the pen if he wanted to and there is no contractual violation. PAYE and REPAYE are executive branch orders derived from the law signed by Congress in 2007. Trump has proposed combining PAYE and REPAYE into a new income driven repayment plan that would be 12.5% of income and 15 years until forgiveness. That's more generous than PAYE and REPAYE, however I doubt it would pass muster when Congressional Republicans urge him not to pass it. He could also choose to eliminate PAYE and REPAYE and put everyone back on IBR, and there would be no borrower recourse for this except calling your Congressional representatives and saying how angry you are about it.

PSLF however is written into the promissory note as it's from the 2007 law that created IBR. That's got a much stronger case for existing into the future.

@Winged Scapula my intention in starting the other thread was to introduce new helpful info, the spreadsheet with estimates of COA for 2021, under a less hyperbolic title that offended fewer people. Apologies for violating the TOS. I'm sure people are upset by some of the stuff I've been writing, heck some of it might be inaccurate or incomplete. I'm just trying to help.

Very interesting news...I highly doubt it will be taken away, though. That 15 year REPAYE does sound even more generous though, I agree.

 

[LLUDDS15]

Another point @LLUDDS15 is that PAYE has definitely not been discontinued. If you took out loans for the first time after Oct 2007 and at least 1 loan after October 2011 then you're eligible. REPAYE is open to anyone with Direct loans. You can choose between both plans if you have eligibility for both. It's between REPAYE and IBR only for folks who are ineligible for PAYE.

For what it's worth, I ran the numbers through my own calculator based on differing income numbers both low and high, and I found the tax penalty to be between $350,000 to $400,000 in 20 years. That's still better than refinancing and paying it back for sure, but the accountants numbers seem off to me. I'm not trying to be disrespectful just helpful. Hard for that tone to come off right online. Also those numbers could be much higher if they raise marginal tax rates. They could also be much lower too if they pass a bailout bill for student loan borrowers that makes forgiven balances tax free. Either way it sounds like a reasonable approach that you're taking.

This is not a comment about your advisor or accountant in particular, but a lot of advisors and / or accountants try to appear competent on student loans to win business in other areas.

Great point, so even if it ends up being an extra 70k in what I pay back, I'm still WAY ahead of what I would've been paying back via standard 10 vs. PAYE 20. I'll just have to have a bit larger of a nest egg built up for year 20

 

[LLUDDS15]

@studentloanplanner---I sure do appreciate all your sharing of knowledge. A lot to be learned from you, not sure why anyone would put you in probation, you're exactly the advisor these guys need.

 

[periopocket]

Good job getting this information out there! I've encountered a fair amount of resistance here, from current moderators even, when sharing my views on where dentistry is headed and why pursuing medicine may be the better option for those so inclined. There's no right answer, really, but hopefully your message gets across far and wide. Different perspectives help to inform.

Outrun,

Did you decide to switch to med school? Didn't you have 2 years of dds under your belt. Can you tell us why you switched?

Thanks!


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[Student Loan Planner]

Great point, so even if it ends up being an extra 70k in what I pay back, I'm still WAY ahead of what I would've been paying back via standard 10 vs. PAYE 20. I'll just have to have a bit larger of a nest egg built up for year 20

It's also important to point out that if the numbers work out where you're able to minimize what you're paid to limit student loan payments that end up resulting in a large forgiven balance that your winning from 2 directions. First of course is you're paying 30% to 60% of a large sum instead of 100% of a large sum. If you work w a really savvy accountant maybe you can minimize the tax further by investing into the dental business and taking aggressive depreciation to manage the tax hit.

Second, PAYE limits interest capitalization to 10% of the original principal balance. So you're effectively paying simple interest and inflation is compound interest. So you're paying a partial amount of what you owe on dollars that have lost value thanks to whatever the inflation rate has become.

Thanks @LLUDDS15 for the compliment. Important for folks doing the PAYE strategy to hedge the risk by investing like you mentioned to have a lump sum ready to go if something changes w the loan rules. Minimizing AGI by contributing to retirement accounts also great idea. If you're a business owner I bet your accountant has addressed this but individual 401k or SEP IRA should allow for lowering income by up to $53,000, and possibly another $53,000 if you get your spouse on the payroll. That would further lower your loan payments and increase your forgiven amount.

I'm really curious about how the loan servicers treat S corp income. I've seen another person w a large net income who was getting it close to 0 w depreciation and practice investments but our assumption was that eventually the loan servicer would consider his income to be quite high w dividends from the business. The loan servicers are using tax returns from 2015 still for income verification so I'd be really interested to know what the required payment is going forward. You've got a much better plan than 90%-95% of folks I think, that's really good job by you and the folks advising you

 

[LLUDDS15]

[/QUOTE]

It's also important to point out that if the numbers work out where you're able to minimize what you're paid to limit student loan payments that end up resulting in a large forgiven balance that your winning from 2 directions. First of course is you're paying 30% to 60% of a large sum instead of 100% of a large sum. If you work w a really savvy accountant maybe you can minimize the tax further by investing into the dental business and taking aggressive depreciation to manage the tax hit. THIS!!! I absolutely agree, and this is exactly what I am doing.


Second, PAYE limits interest capitalization to 10% of the original principal balance. So you're effectively paying simple interest and inflation is compound interest. So you're paying a partial amount of what you owe on dollars that have lost value thanks to whatever the inflation rate has become. Yes!!

Thanks @LLUDDS15 for the compliment. Important for folks doing the PAYE strategy to hedge the risk by investing like you mentioned to have a lump sum ready to go if something changes w the loan rules. Minimizing AGI by contributing to retirement accounts also great idea. If you're a business owner I bet your accountant has addressed this but individual 401k or SEP IRA should allow for lowering income by up to $53,000, and possibly another $53,000 if you get your spouse on the payroll. That would further lower your loan payments and increase your forgiven amount. Wow man, this is exactly what we've done, and what my CPA has recommended. If this corp tax goes down to 15% under Trump, I'm REALLY going to be sitting pretty. Also, I came in right before the election and got my practice purchase loan for 1.89% for first 3 years, 3.9% for last 7 years. A month after we closed, the feds starting hiking rates. Needless to say, I'm beyond happy that I purchased when I did.

I'm really curious about how the loan servicers treat S corp income. I've seen another person w a large net income who was getting it close to 0 w depreciation and practice investments but our assumption was that eventually the loan servicer would consider his income to be quite high w dividends from the business. The loan servicers are using tax returns from 2015 still for income verification so I'd be really interested to know what the required payment is going forward. You've got a much better plan than 90%-95% of folks I think, that's really good job by you and the folks advising you

So the way I understand it is that the loan servicers treat my personal income (and my spouse's) entirely separate from the S-corp income, since I've elected myself as an employee of the corporation. The corporation pays me x amount (whatever I choose, some months more than others). The goal still being to minimize what I make on a personal level, and maximize what the S-corp makes. This will be especially helpful if/when the corp tax goes down to 15%. My DCPA has said we will be able to "hide" money in my corporation for as long as possible. My spouse is an employee of the practice now, and she gets paid $125 per pay period, again CPA's advice. She is then eligible to contribute to our 401k plan, which maxes out the benefit and negates the corp from having to pay her in more payroll taxes.

 

[Student Loan Planner]

I'm no CPA @LLUDDS15 , so I like to defer to tax professionals for knowing the details of what your income would show. Even so I'll hazard a few thoughts

I pulled this from the Navient website

"This is the income you must document:
• You must provide documentation of all taxable income you and your spouse (if applicable) currently receive.
• Taxable income includes, for example, income from employment, unemployment income, dividend income, interest income, tips, and alimony."

I'm not suggesting anything by saying this, but this is what I've seen people do. Loan servicers used to ask for your last completed tax return, and for most people that's actually the completed return from 2 years ago. The Dept of Ed realized this and pushed the loan servicers to ask if your income had substantially changed from the last return. Many will just list no regardless of whether or not it's correct. So that means even many dentists making a lot of money are having their loan payments calculated on old tax returns.

From the non-tax professional knowledge I have of S corps, you can pay yourself the reasonable wage the IRS expects primarily to limit self employment and Medicare tax. The other income if it's present would show up on your 1040. When you're paying $60k to $80k of interest on a business loan, buying a bunch of dental equipment, investing in marketing and consultants, etc. you probably have enough deductions to be making almost nothing in extra business income. You're essentially building phantom income w the value of the practice as you know.

So my thoughts are you probably get a 5-10 year period with "low" monthly payments, and then once your K-1 income gets included on your 1040 you'll get asked for a lot more per month. Still probably cheaper than refinancing. My general rule of thumb is once your debt to taxable income ratio is below 1.5 and you have more than 15 years to go until forgiveness private refinancing could make a lot of sense.

So PAYE is effectively a non deductible tax on whatever your taxable income is. You have to save for the tax penalty, so all in it's probably somewhere between 10% to 15% of your taxable income each year including the tax penalty account savings. If you'll make $400k plus like the previous owner then that's a manageable tax loss. Though that's probably a $1.2 million producing practice or more no? There's a ton more 500k to 800k ones out there.

You're in great shape bc as the student loan problem grows and ppl become more aware how to manage it the value of those big producing practices like yours will only grow. Whether the buyer will be corporate dentistry or new grads when you're 50-60 is another story

 

[LLUDDS15]

I'm no CPA @LLUDDS15 , so I like to defer to tax professionals for knowing the details of what your income would show. Even so I'll hazard a few thoughts

I pulled this from the Navient website

"This is the income you must document:
• You must provide documentation of all taxable income you and your spouse (if applicable) currently receive.
• Taxable income includes, for example, income from employment, unemployment income, dividend income, interest income, tips, and alimony."

I'm not suggesting anything by saying this, but this is what I've seen people do. Loan servicers used to ask for your last completed tax return, and for most people that's actually the completed return from 2 years ago. The Dept of Ed realized this and pushed the loan servicers to ask if your income had substantially changed from the last return. Many will just list no regardless of whether or not it's correct. So that means even many dentists making a lot of money are having their loan payments calculated on old tax returns.

From the non-tax professional knowledge I have of S corps, you can pay yourself the reasonable wage the IRS expects primarily to limit self employment and Medicare tax. The other income if it's present would show up on your 1040. When you're paying $60k to $80k of interest on a business loan, buying a bunch of dental equipment, investing in marketing and consultants, etc. you probably have enough deductions to be making almost nothing in extra business income. You're essentially building phantom income w the value of the practice as you know.

So my thoughts are you probably get a 5-10 year period with "low" monthly payments, and then once your K-1 income gets included on your 1040 you'll get asked for a lot more per month. Still probably cheaper than refinancing. My general rule of thumb is once your debt to taxable income ratio is below 1.5 and you have more than 15 years to go until forgiveness private refinancing could make a lot of sense.

So PAYE is effectively a non deductible tax on whatever your taxable income is. You have to save for the tax penalty, so all in it's probably somewhere between 10% to 15% of your taxable income each year including the tax penalty account savings. If you'll make $400k plus like the previous owner then that's a manageable tax loss. Though that's probably a $1.2 million producing practice or more no? There's a ton more 500k to 800k ones out there.

You're in great shape bc as the student loan problem grows and ppl become more aware how to manage it the value of those big producing practices like yours will only grow. Whether the buyer will be corporate dentistry or new grads when you're 50-60 is another story

You make a lot of great points to consider. We are on schedule to do 1.45M this year (he did 1.02M in 2016), and I've tried to keep my overhead the same as the old doc as much as possible (57%). Mine is a little higher due to paying off my purchase loan and lease that the owner obviously didn't have to pay. I still make a great income, as I've said before..I grew up poor so I've lived almost the same, maybe a little nice. Literally all of my money that I've decided to keep the change from doing PAYE, I invest. If you're going to go out and blow that money, it would be stupid to be on PAYE imo, pay off your loans ASAP if that's the case.

 

[kidsaremypassion]

Now we know what Student Loan Planner tells us is the TRUTH.

If not, why would moderators put him on probationary status and try to cover the sun with their own palms?

Expensive private schools need to make money by making these uninformed souls to take out half million dollars. So they filed multiple complaints.

I would rather take a gap year, study for DAT like one entire year, score 26, and save $200k by going to a state school.


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The above Bolded is Everything IMO.

 

[deleted632307]

The above Bolded is Everything IMO.

What happens if you score a 26AA and still can't get into your state school?

Do you take a second gap year?

 

[GypsyHummus]

What happens if you score a 26AA and still can't get into your state school?

Do you take a second gap year?

You go to LECOM

 

[kidsaremypassion]

What happens if you score a 26AA and still can't get into your state school?

Do you take a second gap year?

At that point it becomes a personal decision as to whether one is willing to take on an additional 200k in financial costs.
It would also be worth having an honest conversation with oneself as to whether dentistry is the only profession one would be content practicing.
I'm not one to guilt trip people into the dichotomy of "dentistry or bust". I'm all for making financially sound decisions that are best for one's future.

 

[deleted547631]

Outrun,

Did you decide to switch to med school? Didn't you have 2 years of dds under your belt. Can you tell us why you switched?

Thanks!

Hey @periopocket,

I did and, yes, I have two years completed toward the DDS. It really came down to a matter of personal preference of what I wanted to do as a career, which shifted for me during DS2 year. Dentistry is a really cool field and I'm privileged to have been given the opportunity to pursue it. There were several reasons at play for me, it was multifactorial, but it really just came down to wanting to be happy pursuing something I had a greater passion for. It was a stressful process to shift gears midstream but I don't have any regrets.

@Student Loan Planner

I commend you for having a thick skin and shining the light on what many probably won't seriously think about until they're locked in. I'll have debt from both dental and medical school around $400K by the time I'm in residency so staying on top of the income-driven plans is important for me. I plan to pursue PSLF if that option truly remains on the table so I agree with you that it's a potential boon for anyone willing to work for a 501c3 or government-related facility for a few years after residency.

@wingedscapula

I appreciate your willingness to keep this thread on SDN going. Not many have this level of technical financial discussion in a single thread. Please reconsider locking it if certain moderators push for that.

 

[comatose]

Can someone please explain to me why the OP has probationary status. Did he say something harmful?

 

[Incis0r]

Can someone please explain to me why the OP has probationary status. Did he say something harmful?

Here's what I saw:

This thread was originally sticky'd. It was later removed from the Stickys, possibly due to some people being upset at the thread title.

Student Loan Planner created a new thread under a milder thread title in an attempt to get the information about finances across in a more neutral, respectful manner.

However, this was seen as "cross-posting" and his new thread was closed. My guess is that the probationary status was another consequence given to him as a result of cross-posting.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Everyone can breath a sigh of relief. Big Hoss has not yet been sanctioned...sanctioned for being awesome!

Big Hoss

 

[Screwtape]

Hey @periopocket,

I did and, yes, I have two years completed toward the DDS. It really came down to a matter of personal preference of what I wanted to do as a career, which shifted for me during DS2 year. Dentistry is a really cool field and I'm privileged to have been given the opportunity to pursue it. There were several reasons at play for me, it was multifactorial, but it really just came down to wanting to be happy pursuing something I had a greater passion for. It was a stressful process to shift gears midstream but I don't have any regrets.

@Student Loan Planner

I commend you for having a thick skin and shining the light on what many probably won't seriously think about until they're locked in. I'll have debt from both dental and medical school around $400K by the time I'm in residency so staying on top of the income-driven plans is important for me. I plan to pursue PSLF if that option truly remains on the table so I agree with you that it's a potential boon for anyone willing to work for a 501c3 or government-related facility for a few years after residency.

@wingedscapula

I appreciate your willingness to keep this thread on SDN going. Not many have this level of technical financial discussion in a single thread. Please reconsider locking it if certain moderators push for that.

Where are you in your medical training and what field are you pursuing ? How's medical school going for you ?

 

[Ollivander]

Here's what I saw:

This thread was originally sticky'd. It was later removed from the Stickys, possibly due to some people being upset at the thread title.

Student Loan Planner created a new thread under a milder thread title in an attempt to get the information about finances across in a more neutral, respectful manner.

However, this was seen as "cross-posting" and his new thread was closed. My guess is that the probationary status was another consequence given to him as a result of cross-posting.

This pretty much sums it up. I think some people were just waiting for him to slip up and break the terms of service which the other thread entered into a grey area. A moderator classified it as spamming the sub-forum, and the next thing you know it he's on probation.

 

[Ollivander]

Hey @periopocket,

I did and, yes, I have two years completed toward the DDS. It really came down to a matter of personal preference of what I wanted to do as a career, which shifted for me during DS2 year. Dentistry is a really cool field and I'm privileged to have been given the opportunity to pursue it. There were several reasons at play for me, it was multifactorial, but it really just came down to wanting to be happy pursuing something I had a greater passion for. It was a stressful process to shift gears midstream but I don't have any regrets.

Would you mind if I picked your brain on what caused such a shift? Was there a specific specialty in medicine that drew you towards that path, or was it more complicated than that? What is it that medicine offers that made you pull the trigger after already being two years in? You of course don't have to answer these questions if you feel as though they're too personal. You can even feel free to PM me your answers if that's the case as well. I've just been considering the DO route recently after deciding not to go the expensive OOS/private dental school route and would appreciate the insight into your thought process.

 

[Incis0r]

Would you mind if I picked your brain on what caused such a shift? Was there a specific specialty in medicine that drew you towards that path, or was it more complicated than that? What is it that medicine offers that made you pull the trigger after already being two years in? You of course don't have to answer these questions if you feel as though they're too personal. You can even feel free to PM me your answers if that's the case as well. I've just been considering the DO route recently after deciding not to go the expensive OOS/private dental school route and would appreciate the insight into your thought process.

Do it. I have a family member who graduated with a DO and matched into a really competitive specialty. Her debt is half the average dental student debt, and her income and lifestyle...well, let's just say it made me quite jealous

Of course, only do it if you think you'd like it - I don't think I'd like her specialty very much...I'd actually be rather bored doing it. But she likes it, so more power to her!

 

[periopocket]

Do it. I have a family member who graduated with a DO and matched into a really competitive specialty. Her debt is half the average dental student debt, and her income and lifestyle...well, let's just say it made me quite jealous

Of course, only do it if you think you'd like it - I don't think I'd like her specialty very much...I'd actually be rather bored doing it. But she likes it, so more power to her!

I'm happy for u...don't stress the small stuff let's get in...it's a great career either way!


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[gatorfan99]

great info here! Beware of debt burden you can't possibly pay back!

 

[Ollivander]

Thanks @periopocket and @Incis0r! I'll definitely take what you guys have said under consideration. I've got a little bit of time to think it over so I'll keep mulling over whether or not I want to commit the next years 7 years of my life towards schooling and residency. I might just go the PA route so I can start earning earlier, but I'm going to consider both options while I accrue direct patient contact hours over the next year.

 

[deleted696582]

I think the theme that keeps reoccurring here is that ultimately you'll survive if you're smart with your 400-500k of student loans. You just won't live like those rich dentists you hear about.

 

[gatorfan99]

I think the theme that keeps reoccurring here is that ultimately you'll survive if you're smart with your 400-500k of student loans. You just won't live like those rich dentists you hear about.

Hey, Fets (Navy HPSP):

Loans? what's that about?

 

[deleted696582]

Hey, Fets (Navy HPSP):

Loans? what's that about?

Haha yeah I'm in a good situation. I do still feel concerned for my fellow dental students since the loan debt situation impacts the field as a whole.

 

[DreamChaser01]

Haha yeah I'm in a good situation. I do still feel concerned for my fellow dental students since the loan debt situation impacts the field as a whole.

Those people with insane amount of loan and do bad dentistry are going to kill the reputation of this career.

 

[x0jessmariex3]

Deleted

 

[x0jessmariex3]

Those people with insane amount of loan and do bad dentistry are going to kill the reputation of this career.

True it will only make the reputation worse, but many people have been saying dentists are all crooks who just want your money for years.

 

[Master Yoda]

True it will only make the reputation worse, but many people have been saying dentists are all crooks who just want your money for years.

Side effect of toothache.

 

[distressstudent]

Debt or no debt, there is no limit to greed.
Being insatiable defines greed.

 

[FlowerGirll35]

Amazing. All of these people want to take loans and pay back this ridiculous amount of money.
It doesn't matter that dentistry is your "dream." If you are too poor to pay for dental school, you probably don't deserve it.

 

[Advance]

Amazing. All of these people want to take loans and pay back this ridiculous amount of money.
It doesn't matter that dentistry is your "dream." If you are too poor to pay for dental school, you probably don't deserve it.

Flower girl back from the grave.

 

[super frank]

Amazing. All of these people want to take loans and pay back this ridiculous amount of money.
It doesn't matter that dentistry is your "dream." If you are too poor to pay for dental school, you probably don't deserve it.

Oh stop it.

 

[wengerout]

Amazing. All of these people want to take loans and pay back this ridiculous amount of money.
It doesn't matter that dentistry is your "dream." If you are too poor to pay for dental school, you probably don't deserve it.

 

[Incis0r]

Now this thread's definitely getting locked. Posting for future generations, remember us!

 

[wengerout]

Now this thread's definitely getting locked. Posting for future generations, remember us!

 

[super frank]

Now this thread's definitely getting locked. Posting for future generations, remember us!

You've created a monster.

 

[dr.d00m]

Amazing. All of these people want to take loans and pay back this ridiculous amount of money.
It doesn't matter that dentistry is your "dream." If you are too poor to pay for dental school, you probably don't deserve it.

Now this thread's definitely getting locked. Posting for future generations, remember us!

 

[FlowerGirll35]

 

[Incis0r]

Perfect timing: SDN Announces Banned Member Amnesty Program - Student Doctor Network

 

[wholeheartedly]

Perfect timing: SDN Announces Banned Member Amnesty Program - Student Doctor Network

Yeah, brilliant idea huh? what could possibly go wrong...

 

[Incis0r]

Yeah, brilliant idea huh? what could possibly go wrong...

Does this mean I have a blank check to violate every possible TOS and then I can rejoin SDN under the Amnesty program?

 

[wholeheartedly]

Does this mean I have a blank check to violate every possible TOS and then I can rejoin SDN under the Amnesty program?

LOL


No, it means previously established users are being given a second chance to become good citizens again. But we're still issuing warnings and dings for inappropriate behavior. Problem is they're letting these 2nd chancers come in with a "clean slate" so if they misbehave it'll take awhile for them to acquire enough dings to get banned again.

 

[Incis0r]

No, it means previously established users are being given a second chance to become good citizens again. But we're still issuing warnings and dings for inappropriate behavior. Problem is they're letting these 2nd chancers come in with a "clean slate" so if they misbehave it'll take awhile for them to acquire enough dings to get banned again.

LOL

 

[wholeheartedly]

LOL

Yeah, just laugh it up. You're not the one that has to read through and deal with every reported post

 

[Incis0r]

Yeah, just laugh it up. You're not the one that has to read through and deal with every reported post

@Sean Spicer needs to be banned - he cross-posted the "Banned Member Amnesty Program" thread in multiple forum categories. Total violation of the TOS.

We need to appoint a special prosecutor and de-admin him immediately. Let's go ahead and Make SDN Great Again.

 

[FlowerGirll35]

 

[Salmanium Chloride]

This account has to be SDN's version of a sick April Fools Joke. Sad!