GOP Debates

[ryanjmy]

Asa and the other governor should have not been there.

Tim Scott is too soft spoken and doesn't command the room. He'll be the next to drop out.

Nikki was impressive. She's not afraid to call out the hipocracy of the gop and she did. Good Answers on abortion and everything else. I wish she was more popular in the pools.

Pence. Very polished. Obviously a politician. Would bring class to the presidency. I don't think he would ever garner enough support from the Trump voters.

Vivek. Smart guy. Will be very popular with young voters. Maybe VP choice for Trump or cabinet position.

DeSantis. I actually thought last night was a big win. I thought his goal should have been survive and don't be the punching bag. And so he was successful in that. I don't think he shined where he's gonna get a huge bump.

Christy. Same Ole character. He's winning his lane of supporters, not much else.

Trump. Definitely the winner. Avoids the debate. Continues to lead. A gazillion views on tucker.

Think the country would be better if both Trump and Biden faded away asap and before primary season.

I agree with most of this. The GOP is going to have to artificially narrow the field quickly or trump will run away with the nomination. Trumps floor with the base is very high but its not more than 50%. I would start by getting rid of ASA, Christie, Burgum and Pence.

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[rowsdower88]

I agree with most of this. The GOP is going to have to artificially narrow the field quickly or trump will run away with the nomination. Trumps floor with the base is very high but its not more than 50%. I would start by getting rid of ASA, Christie, Burgum and Pence.

Interesting. Any reasons why aside from general electability vibes? Any policy differences that separate Pence from Desantis/Haley/Ramaswamy that you find persuasive?

 

[Dr. Rude]

 

[UscGhost]

Debate moderator: Would you support sending U.S. special forces over the border into Mexico to take out fentanyl labs?

Ron Desantis: Yes! And I will do it on day one.

Do you have any thoughts on this exchange? Pros/Cons?

I am sure Mexico will even pay for the bullets we use!!

 

[ryanjmy]

Interesting. Any reasons why aside from general electability vibes? Any policy differences that separate Pence from Desantis/Haley/Ramaswamy that you find persuasive?

Nope. Pence is probably the least electable guy on the stage. The gap between the people that find him favorable vs unfavorable is by far the highest of anyone running including Trump and Biden. I mean what is the motive for him running? He's a known entity that's not liked by either side.

 

[zizzer]

When you can show me something substantial to prove that Trump committed and was convicted of, actual crimes, we can talk. Trump never gets any credit for any of the great things he did. People like you only focus on the sham allegations and take them as fact. Only an idiot does that. It aint over until the fat lady sings my “non-liberal” friend. Or whatever you are.

P.S.- I dont feel bad whatsoever. God bless America, that I dont have to. I can have an opinion here. As can you.

Independents, moderates, and libertarians can't stand him either. As unpopular as Biden is, I think he'll still be found to be much more preferable to Trump among those groups.

And regardless of any of the good things he may have done, which is debatable, the fact that he tried to retain power after being voted out is unforgivable. He also encouraged a mob to become violent both through his words and actions leading up to January 6th and his inaction for several hours during it. He could be the perfect ideological candidate otherwise, and that all should be an instant disqualifier. I don't understand how so many people take that point lightly. Even if you believe he didn't do anything legally wrong (unlikely), that behavior is reprehensible. What a horrible precedent to not admonish. Consider that it could conceivably be a Democrat trying such actions in the future.

 

[TeslaCoil]

Independents, moderates, and libertarians can't stand him either. As unpopular as Biden is, I think he'll still be found to be much more preferable to Trump among those groups.

And regardless of any of the good things he may have done, which is debatable, the fact that he tried to retain power after being voted out is unforgivable. He also encouraged a mob to become violent both through his words and actions leading up to January 6th and his inaction for several hours during it. He could be the perfect ideological candidate otherwise, and that all should be an instant disqualifier. I don't understand how so many people take that point lightly. Even if you believe he didn't do anything legally wrong (unlikely), that behavior is reprehensible. What a horrible precedent to not admonish. Consider that it could conceivably be a Democrat trying such actions in the future.

Im a libertarian so there goes your theory, and as far as republicans go Im relatively moderate. Pro choice, pro environmental. But in the current landscape its “pick your poison!”

 

[zizzer]

Im a libertarian so there goes your theory, and as far as republicans go Im relatively moderate. Pro choice, pro environmental. But in the current landscape its “pick your poison!”

I'm a libertarian too. I'm not making an absolute claim that each of any one of those groups supports Trump or not. Between libertarians and moderate independents, I suspect more libertarians may view him a bit more favorably, but many would not as well. Moderates are a much larger group than libertarians anyway.

There's plenty I don't like about Biden, but I'm fairly certain he would concede if he lost an election. Trump acts like Putin is his inspiration, and that should be very concerning regardless of how much somebody likes him otherwise.

 

[pgg]

Nope. Pence is probably the least electable guy on the stage. The gap between the people that find him favorable vs unfavorable is by far the highest of anyone running including Trump and Biden. I mean what is the motive for him running? He's a known entity that's not liked by either side.

Fundraising, to collect money that can diverted elsewhere when they reluctantly drop out.

Their egos feed on the attention. Every politician is at least somewhat motivated by the attention. You can't run for office without at least a little bit of narcissism.

And, there's a nonzero chance a meteor strike will kill the competition or Trump will defect to Russia. If you're not playing, you can't win. So they play.

 

[Blockit]

Debate moderator: Would you support sending U.S. special forces over the border into Mexico to take out fentanyl labs?

Ron Desantis: Yes! And I will do it on day one.

Do you have any thoughts on this exchange? Pros/Cons?

This kind of stupid response is easy for Desantis to throw out there. The simple minds in the base eat this stuff up, because it involves guns and blowing **** up. We had four years of trump spewing lies daily with no consequences, so there is little downside to Desantis doing this during the primary races. The base doesn’t seem to know or care that nearly everything. Trump said that was a lie. Cult mindset. I’m sure they think the “deep state” stopped the building of the wall.

Someone earlier mentioned all of the great things that happened during trumps presidency, and I would like for that individual to give me a list. Because I don’t know of much of anything he did that was actually good, but maybe I forgot some stuff.

 

[vector2]

Im a libertarian so there goes your theory, and as far as republicans go Im relatively moderate. Pro choice, pro environmental. But in the current landscape its “pick your poison!”

It's beyond me how any libertarian could vote for the guy. He overturned Roe, he essentially supports no regulations that could help the environment, he supports draconian drug policy, he supports protectionist trade policies, he exploded the debt even before COVID, and he believes in crony capitalism, not true free enterprise (just look at the parade of corporate shills he appointed to the cabinet: Tillerson, Chao, Mnuchin, Wheeler, Perdue, DeVos, Esper, and Ross).

But worst of all, he is an enemy of civil liberties. He doesn't respect freedom of speech (unless he's talking) or freedom of the press (unless it's good coverage of him). And - *pause for emphasis* - he. does. not. support. free. and. fair. elections. That alone should be disqualifying to any libertarian voter.

 

[GravelRider]

cant wait to collect the tears from crybaby liberals every time Trump takes the stage. Im completely on the fence on who I support among the GOP, but I have to say, I live seeing liberals cry and stomp their feet. For that reason I hope Trump stays in as long as he can.

Who’s crying? What a loser thing to say.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Im a libertarian so there goes your theory, and as far as republicans go Im relatively moderate. Pro choice, pro environmental. But in the current landscape its “pick your poison!”

You aren't a libertarian.

And someone who is clueless enough to write this cannot be moderate:

I have a mother and a wife and daughter. How could I be anti-women? I was poor half my life how could I be anti-poor? Im an ethnic immigrant, how could I be racist?

 

[NumTacos]

Conservative id

Agreed. No more is it about families, the military, and taxes. I used to take some of the smarter ones seriously, but most of those have dropped the pretense and are all in. It's all about making the libs cry. It was all a farce to begin with; now they just don't care. Fascinating and horrifying at the same time.

 

[NumTacos]

You mean like the phone calls where he is recorded asking election officials to find votes that don't actually exist?

It took me awhile to get there, but most of these MAGA people really don't even care about actual facts anymore, it's about being part of the tribe. I used to be incredulous that they could accept a shady New York billionaire as their standard bearer, but it's just the truth.

 

[NumTacos]

Don't you know how the American justice system works? I doubt you will actually follow the trial and the evidence presented, instead choosing to cover your eyes and ears while blabbering about how the election was rigged. And when he does get convicted you will probably also say the trial was rigged.

Nothing will convince these people, it's all in. Even if they harbored doubts, it's the sunk cost fallacy. No going back.

 

[NumTacos]

Ironically this post is a very good example of crying and foot stomping. I heard he did take the stage with Tucker. Anybody actually watch it?

Watched some clips, this is a good breakdown The Craziest Moments From Trump’s Tucker Carlson Interview
I thought the water pressure thing is just more evidence that they guy is insane.

 

[NumTacos]

You aren't a libertarian.

And someone who is clueless enough to write this cannot be moderate:

The best definition I've heard for libertarianism: Libertarianism is astrology for men. *(usually white men from privileged backgrounds who were born on third who think they hit a triple)

 

[DazedWanderer]

I mean isn't that what all Republicans talk about? The usual tropes. Party of Law and Order. Founding fathers. The Constitution. Fiscal conservative. God and Christian Nation. Pro Life. Capitalism. Tax breaks. It doesn't matter that the content makes sense. Hell Trump himself is the antithesis of Republican values - an adulterer, a cheat, a serial failure of capitalism and an ultimate example of leaching off the government through his business failures and bankruptcies.

I mean, the modern democratic party has its own usual but opposing tropes... phuk the police, go easy on crime, eat the rich, socialism, tax-and-spend, abortions, woke progressive nation. Hell Biden himself is the antithesis of democrat values... became a rich multimillionaire through shady business dealings, surrounded by an entire platoon of heavily armed police, who similarly has a history of getting too handsy with women and whose own wealthy immediate family has a well documented record of dodging taxes which he shrugs off. Same shlt, different pile.

 

[pgg]

I used to be incredulous that they could accept a shady New York billionaire as their standard bearer, but it's just the truth.

I don't think he's a billionaire.

We know what actual billionaires have done in the last few decades. Soros, Bloomberg, Thiel, Gates, Koch brothers, Schwab, Uihlein, just off the top of my head.

Hell, even Musk dropped $44B on Twitter just to more freely troll and ****post about politics.

Those are real billionaires. They spend 10s or 100s of millions of dollar of their own cash on political causes. Their spending is conspicuous and enormous.

Trump has to divert campaign and "Stop the Steal" donations to pay his lawyers. Or not pay them, if he's in a stiffing mood. He had to embezzle campaign funds to pay hush money to a prostitute. He hasn't spent a cent of his own money on anything from the first day he ran for office. Maybe it's because he's cheap and shrewdly hoarding money. Or maybe he doesn't actually have any money that's not part of a shell game of debt pyramids.

It wouldn't surprise me if his kids' profits from his presidency are the only real profits that family has seen since he got paid for the Apprentice.

 

[nimbus]

Watched some clips, this is a good breakdown The Craziest Moments From Trump’s Tucker Carlson Interview
I thought the water pressure thing is just more evidence that they guy is insane.

I’m not crazy about our low flow shower head so Trump and I have something in common.

 

[rowsdower88]

I mean, the modern democratic party has its own usual but opposing tropes... phuk the police, go easy on crime, eat the rich, socialism, tax-and-spend, abortions, woke progressive nation. Hell Biden himself is the antithesis of democrat values... became a rich multimillionaire through shady business dealings, surrounded by an entire platoon of heavily armed police who similarly has a history of getting too handsy with women and whose own wealthy immediate family has a well documented record of dodging taxes which he shrugs off. Same shlt, different pile.

Let's try that again with like 50% more charitability:
-Sensible police reform in line with community needs: reducing police militarization and creating limits to civil asset forfeiture among other things
- Go after tax cheats through increased funding of the IRS to ensure the wealthy pay their fair share for reaping the greatest benefits of capitalism
- I don't think there are any socialists in Congress, the closest you get are AOC and the squad as social democrats (Correction! There are at least three DSA members in the House)
- Tax and spend is a normal function of government?
- Work to ensure reproductive healthcare is available and cheap for all Americans
- Recognize and correct inequalities that have been persistent and often growing between different racial groups (this is pretty fringe in Congress, the Green New Deal failed spectacularly in the House and Senate for example even when Dems had partial control)

That's probably closer to positive values espoused by the Democratic party

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Can we all just agree that Trump and Thor resemble each other physically ?

Meanwhile, Atlanta New First reports that actor Chris Hemsworth was 6-foot-3 and 220 lbs. (Internet compares Trump’s height, weight to famous athletes and actors)
when he played muscle-bound superhero Thor in the 2011 movie of the same name.



Maybe a perjury charge should have also been added.

 

[Kryptocoin]

I don't think he's a billionaire.

We know what actual billionaires have done in the last few decades. Soros, Bloomberg, Thiel, Gates, Koch brothers, Schwab, Uihlein, just off the top of my head.

Hell, even Musk dropped $44B on Twitter just to more freely troll and ****post about politics.

Those are real billionaires. They spend 10s or 100s of millions of dollar of their own cash on political causes. Their spending is conspicuous and enormous.

Trump has to divert campaign and "Stop the Steal" donations to pay his lawyers. Or not pay them, if he's in a stiffing mood. He had to embezzle campaign funds to pay hush money to a prostitute. He hasn't spent a cent of his own money on anything from the first day he ran for office. Maybe it's because he's cheap and shrewdly hoarding money. Or maybe he doesn't actually have any money that's not part of a shell game of debt pyramids.

It wouldn't surprise me if his kids' profits from his presidency are the only real profits that family has seen since he got paid for the Apprentice.

Right. A billionaire who can't even pay his own bail.

 

[UscGhost]

March trial date. Looks like Trump will survive long enough to win the Republican primary and be in prison before the general.

Worse case scenario for Republicans. No chance Trump would win the general while in a cell or on his way to one.

Hardcore MAGAs will vote for him no matter what, but 40% doesn't win you an election

 

[MirrorTodd]

March trial date. Looks like Trump will survive long enough to win the Republican primary and be in prison before the general.

Worse case scenario for Republicans. No chance Trump would win the general while in a cell or on his way to one.

Hardcore MAGAs will vote for him no matter what, but 40% doesn't win you an election

I've read that at least one state is working on ensuring that his name cannot be on the ballot....you know for inciting an insurrection/coup/whatever you want to call it. #traitorsgonnatrait

 

[rowsdower88]

I've read that at least one state is working on ensuring that his name cannot be on the ballot....you know for inciting an insurrection/coup/whatever you want to call it. #traitorsgonnatrait

A couple Heritage Foundation lawyers put this out and Never-Trumpers are running with it. It's a long read, but most of what I've skimmed seems pretty persuasive. I'm not sure if Trump's conduct officially meets the criteria of "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" (section 4 of their paper), but we have over a year to debate it.

The Sweep and Force of Section Three

Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment forbids holding office by former office holders who then participate in insurrection or rebellion. Because of a range

papers.ssrn.com

 

[Dr. Rude]

He is entitled to secret service protection for life as an ex president. Does that mean his detail will guard him in prison? What happens if he gets convicted and elected?

 

[UscGhost]

He is entitled to secret service protection for life as an ex president. Does that mean his detail will guard him in prison? What happens if he gets convicted and elected?

Will be an interesting predicament. He will run the yard!!

MPGA "Make Prison Great Again"

Maybe he can share a cell with Hunters laptop

 

[vector2]

March trial date. Looks like Trump will survive long enough to win the Republican primary and be in prison before the general.

Worse case scenario for Republicans. No chance Trump would win the general while in a cell or on his way to one.

Hardcore MAGAs will vote for him no matter what, but 40% doesn't win you an election

I've seen some chatter that (like many other white collar sort of crimes) he won't actually be incarcerated even if he is found guilty....at least not until the appeals process is totally completed. And of course that could take years.

 

[UscGhost]

I've seen some chatter that (like many other white collar sort of crimes) he won't actually be incarcerated even if he is found guilty....at least not until the appeals process is totally completed. And of course that could take years.

In Georgia, his crimes come with a mandatory minimum 5 year sentence and not eligible to be released on bail of sentenced for more than 5 years.

Judges also are less likely to release unless there are significant questions about the verdict. That's why most prisoners aren't free while awaiting the conclusion of their appeals

He's lucky in that he has a friendly judge in his most serious case down in Florida. But that's also the most slam dunk of all his cases so not sure even a friendly judge can save his butt

 

[triggermaster]

In Georgia, his crimes come with a mandatory minimum 5 year sentence and not eligible to be released on bail of sentenced for more than 5 years.

Judges also are less likely to release unless there are significant questions about the verdict. That's why most prisoners aren't free while awaiting the conclusion of their appeals

He's lucky in that he has a friendly judge in his most serious case down in Florida. But that's always the most slam dunk of all his cases so not sure even a friendly judge can save his butt

Biden will just pardon Trump and Hunter at the same time to attempt to have them cancel each other out or something.

 

[pgg]

March trial date. Looks like Trump will survive long enough to win the Republican primary

Maybe

Primaries are funny. Caucuses are crazy events. Every time they roll around the outcome seems obvious and yet weird stuff happens. I wouldn't hand this thing to Trump just yet, despite his cult sucking up all the oxygen in the room.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...b88f0c-44d4-11ee-b76b-0b6e5e92090d_story.html

Look back at the 2008 and 2012 primaries and the threads we had on it. Seems like every week there was new frontrunner who was the new obvious winner. The only thing that's certain this time around is that having a multiply-indicted candidate is unprecedented.

 

[nimbus]

I don't think he's a billionaire.

We know what actual billionaires have done in the last few decades. Soros, Bloomberg, Thiel, Gates, Koch brothers, Schwab, Uihlein, just off the top of my head.

Hell, even Musk dropped $44B on Twitter just to more freely troll and ****post about politics.

Those are real billionaires. They spend 10s or 100s of millions of dollar of their own cash on political causes. Their spending is conspicuous and enormous.

Trump has to divert campaign and "Stop the Steal" donations to pay his lawyers. Or not pay them, if he's in a stiffing mood. He had to embezzle campaign funds to pay hush money to a prostitute. He hasn't spent a cent of his own money on anything from the first day he ran for office. Maybe it's because he's cheap and shrewdly hoarding money. Or maybe he doesn't actually have any money that's not part of a shell game of debt pyramids.

It wouldn't surprise me if his kids' profits from his presidency are the only real profits that family has seen since he got paid for the Apprentice.

Yep. Real billionaires try to operate under the radar.

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