Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

[wysdoc]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I think it's useful for people who get overwhelmed by life but still try to bulldoze their way through, and then finally recover. So both of your scenarios would suffice.

So for example, someone who was in a car accident in their SO year, and had a classic U-shaped GPA trend, would have a good explanation for the uncharacteristic trough.

Someone with a /-shaped trend might explain that if they had to work the first few years of college.

Thank you

 

[Jay2312]

Hello Goro,

I need some advice. I just graduated undergrad this past Spring and unsure if I should apply during the 2021 cycle or do a postbac. I’m currently studying for the MCAT and hoping to take it beginning of 2021 depending on my practice exam scores.
I struggled through undergrad, but was able to find myself and turn my life around. I ended up finishing my spring term of junior year and my senior year with a 3.72 GPA (54 credits) of Gen Chem II Gen Bio II, Physics, Ochem, Biochem, Genetics and Calculus which are almost all my pre-reqs. I did get a D+ on both Gen Chem I and Gen Bio I, beginning of my junior year and also got a C- and 2 B- on 12 credits of Math during my Freshman and Sophomore year. My current GPA is 3.23 cGPA and 3.37 sGPA. I’m Hispanic, 1st generation and apart of the LGBTQ community. I have around ~6000 hrs of medical experience as a CMA, ~200 hrs of research, ~100 hrs of volunteering and ~60 hrs of shadowing. I’m currently volunteering and trying to get more shadowing hrs.

 

[Goro]

Hello Goro,

I need some advice. I just graduated undergrad this past Spring and unsure if I should apply during the 2021 cycle or do a postbac. I’m currently studying for the MCAT and hoping to take it beginning of 2021 depending on my practice exam scores.
I struggled through undergrad, but was able to find myself and turn my life around. I ended up finishing my spring term of junior year and my senior year with a 3.72 GPA (54 credits) of Gen Chem II Gen Bio II, Physics, Ochem, Biochem, Genetics and Calculus which are almost all my pre-reqs. I did get a D+ on both Gen Chem I and Gen Bio I, beginning of my junior year and also got a C- and 2 B- on 12 credits of Math during my Freshman and Sophomore year. My current GPA is 3.23 cGPA and 3.37 sGPA. I’m Hispanic, 1st generation and apart of the LGBTQ community. I have around ~6000 hrs of medical experience as a CMA, ~200 hrs of research, ~100 hrs of volunteering and ~60 hrs of shadowing. I’m currently volunteering and trying to get more shadowing hrs.

I suggest doing the post-bac or SMP. You only have 1.5 years of good grades; that's not enough data points to show reinvention

 

[11BtoMD]

Hey @Goro and everyone else,
I am a 28 YOCM from FL, in 2010 I went to a college and lets say poor is a very liberal term to describe how I did.
Fall 2010
Gen Chem D+ (retaken for A)
Gen Chem Lab C- (Retaken for A)
ENC C-
Issues of biomed W
Calc F
Learning strategy F
GPA 1.16
Spring 2011
ENC 2 F (Retaken for A)
German F
Psych F (Retaken for A)
Sociology D
GPA .23
After that I went to the Army for 7.5 years and learned how to adult. I got out in dec 2019 and started school again with:
Spring 2019 GPA 4.0 (4 cr)
Summer 2019 GPA 3.75 (16 cr)
Fall 2019 GPA 4 (16 cr)
Spring 2020 GPA 3.66 (9 cr)
Summer 2020 GPA 4 (8 cr)
Overall GPA 2.84 (77 cr)
Clinical Volunteering: Start next week testing students at my school for COVID-19 for Student Health.
Non-Clinical Volunteering: 500 Hours of Coaching High School Lacrosse from 2016-2019
Clinical Employment: about 2000 hours of ER Tech and unknown hours from time in the military doing medical stuff.

So I know that I need to retake sociology. I am currently happy with my upward trend and think that this trend will continue. I was wondering what recommendations anyone has for me? I plan on taking the MCAT as soon as the prereqs are done and I feel comfortable enough with it.
EDIT: Also I have not done any shadowing yet. Was going to start but COVID came to visit

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro and everyone else,
I am a 28 YOCM from FL, in 2010 I went to a college and lets say poor is a very liberal term to describe how I did.
Fall 2010
Gen Chem D+ (retaken for A)
Gen Chem Lab C- (Retaken for A)
ENC C-
Issues of biomed W
Calc F
Learning strategy F
GPA 1.16
Spring 2011
ENC 2 F (Retaken for A)
German F
Psych F (Retaken for A)
Sociology D
GPA .23
After that I went to the Army for 7.5 years and learned how to adult. I got out in dec 2019 and started school again with:
Spring 2019 GPA 4.0 (4 cr)
Summer 2019 GPA 3.75 (16 cr)
Fall 2019 GPA 4 (16 cr)
Spring 2020 GPA 3.66 (9 cr)
Summer 2020 GPA 4 (8 cr)
Overall GPA 2.84 (77 cr)
Clinical Volunteering: Start next week testing students at my school for COVID-19 for Student Health.
Non-Clinical Volunteering: 500 Hours of Coaching High School Lacrosse from 2016-2019
Clinical Employment: about 2000 hours of ER Tech and unknown hours from time in the military doing medical stuff.

So I know that I need to retake sociology. I am currently happy with my upward trend and think that this trend will continue. I was wondering what recommendations anyone has for me? I plan on taking the MCAT as soon as the prereqs are done and I feel comfortable enough with it.
EDIT: Also I have not done any shadowing yet. Was going to start but COVID came to visit

First off, many thanks for your service! Hooooooahh!

Your reinvention is coming along nicely. Plans are sound.

 

[11BtoMD]

First off, many thanks for your service! Hooooooahh!

Your reinvention is coming along nicely. Plans are sound.

How would I calculate hours for clinical during the military? or should I just not worry about it because its only like maybe 500 hours over the course of 8 years and my full time EMT should cover my hours? and thanks for your support of Veterans that I have noticed on this site.

 

[Goro]

How would I calculate hours for clinical during the military? or should I just not worry about it because its only like maybe 500 hours over the course of 8 years and my full time EMT should cover my hours?

Ballpark it and be sure to mention it. EMT definitely covers the clinical side as well

 

[Kira010]

I agree. A 3.4 GPA, unless unless there is a massive rising GPA trend, is around 10th %ile or worse for most MD schools. Living in a lucky state like MS or the Dakotas would be viable.

What exactly is a "massive" rising GPA trend? My GPA stays around 3.1-3.2 the first 2 years and then slowly goes up the last 2 years (3.4 then 3.7-3.8) Is it even worth applying to MD schools for me? There are a few low-tier MD schools that accept students from my undergrad every year (same for a few DO schools).
I was also a victim of racial profiling during my school year (I was arrested while volunteering) which had me go through counseling/therapy for 6 months afterwards because I was traumatized from the experience. I was told to file a lawsuit through the ACLU but did not go through because I was still in school and didn't want to deal with the hassle. Should I mention this as well? I'm not sure what med schools' views are on social justice matter.

 

[Shotapp]

I was also a victim of racial profiling during my school year (I was arrested while volunteering) which had me go through counseling/therapy for 6 months afterwards because I was traumatized from the experience. I was told to file a lawsuit through the ACLU but did not go through because I was still in school and didn't want to deal with the hassle. Should I mention this as well? I'm not sure what med schools' views are on social justice matter.

What does this have to do with getting into medical school? Just because you experienced this doesn't mean you get a pass for subpar grades. If you're dead set on MD, do a diy post-bac or a SMP along with a strong MCAT score to boost your chances. Honestly, a lot of people in life have gone through much worse situations than your experience. I still don't understand the relevance of you mentioning this...what say you @Goro?

 

[AcuteParadox]

.

 

[Goro]

Hi Goro, thank you for your guide! I followed it but I'm wondering where to go from here:

• Nontrad, NJ, ORM, 517 MCAT
• 3.6 AMCAS cGPA = 3.4 undergrad (math major) + 4.0 DIY postbac (mostly upper level science; 70 credits)
• EC's: Business owner for 5 years in a niche industry (< 5 employees so I wore MANY hats), conducted congressional research that led to policy reform that supports increases in diversity, everything else is cookie cutter (600 research hours + abstract/700 clinical/150 community service)

Should I apply as though I'm a 3.6/517, 4.0/517, or somewhere in between? I took my premed requirements in undergrad if that makes any difference. I applied to most of the schools on the "reward reinvention" list but would like to add more. Do you think my EC's are special enough for T20's?

You apply as a 3.8+.
List of schools will follow.

 

[Goro]

What exactly is a "massive" rising GPA trend? My GPA stays around 3.1-3.2 the first 2 years and then slowly goes up the last 2 years (3.4 then 3.7-3.8) Is it even worth applying to MD schools for me? There are a few low-tier MD schools that accept students from my undergrad every year (same for a few DO schools).
I was also a victim of racial profiling during my school year (I was arrested while volunteering) which had me go through counseling/therapy for 6 months afterwards because I was traumatized from the experience. I was told to file a lawsuit through the ACLU but did not go through because I was still in school and didn't want to deal with the hassle. Should I mention this as well? I'm not sure what med schools' views are on social justice matter.

What ethnicity are you?

I have already advised you on a school list. A massive rising trend is one that looks like a Nike swoosh. So that would be something like having a 3.7+ in JR and SR years. You have a single good SR year, which might or might not be the icing on the cake of your reinvention. But your GPAs are > 10th %iles for many schools, and so you might indeed get some love from MD schools.

Very sorry to hear of the arrest and trauma, That can go into your secondaries and you should have LOR writers mention it as well. It's indeed an explanation of you early weak GPAs, and so a screener might look at that and say "this one's worth a gamble...let's invite this kid and check him/her out."

 

[Kira010]

What does this have to do with getting into medical school? Just because you experienced this doesn't mean you get a pass for subpar grades. If you're dead set on MD, do a diy post-bac or a SMP along with a strong MCAT score to boost your chances. Honestly, a lot of people in life have gone through much worse situations than your experience. I still don't understand the relevance of you mentioning this...what say you @Goro?

Plenty of people use their life story to explain low gpa in their secondaries. The point is to give some kind of an explanation and prove that you're a hard-working/reinvented student, assuming you have a rising trend. I never said I'm trying to get a pass with this story. You just assumed which is idiotic since you know nothing about me. I asked this question because I have an arrest record that got expunged and med school app asks about whether you've been arrested.
"Honestly, a lot of people in life have gone through much worse situations than your experience." That is the most ignorant statement I've ever seen. Everyone's hardships are to each their own. Just because someone else got a worse experience (which is subjective) doesn't mean my experience was any better. I really hope you're not going to be a doctor with that kind of mindset. It's never wise to try to downplay someone else's experience without knowing everything.
I assume you're not a minority. Try having 3 cruisers pull up behind you and multiple Caucasian officers pointing their guns at you demanding you to get on the ground. And I must remind you, I was volunteering and did nothing wrong. They still arrested me even after they realized it was a misunderstanding and didn't read me my rights. I went through 6 months of therapy/counseling while running around trying to get a lawyer and collect evidence from witnesses (all during school year). I also don't have any family in this country so I had no support from anyone except my friends and some professors who were kind enough to give me advice. My case was thrown out immediately because of how stupid it was.

 

[Kira010]

What ethnicity are you?

I have already advised you on a school list. A massive rising trend is one that looks like a Nike swoosh. So that would be something like having a 3.7+ in JR and SR years. You have a single good SR year, which might or might not be the icing on the cake of your reinvention. But your GPAs are > 10th %iles for many schools, and so you might indeed get some love from MD schools.

Very sorry to hear of the arrest and trauma, That can go into your secondaries and you should have LOR writers mention it as well. It's indeed an explanation of you early weak GPAs, and so a screener might look at that and say "this one's worth a gamble...let's invite this kid and check him/her out."

Thank you for your reply and sorry about my rant above. It was off-topic. I just couldn't help it.
I'm Asian. I guess my GPA looks more like a J-shaped curve. I'm going to retake the MCAT and aim for 515+. Would that increase my chance for any MD schools? I don't mind going to a DO school but would still like to shoot my shot for MD schools because I'm worried about the MD/DO merger for residency matches. I want to be in primary care or EM in underserved communities.
And yes! I'm going to have one of the professors that helped me with the case to write my LOR. I will also have a committee letter from my undergrad.

 

[Goro]

Thank you for your reply and sorry about my rant above. It was off-topic. I just couldn't help it.
I'm Asian. I guess my GPA looks more like a J-shaped curve. I'm going to retake the MCAT and aim for 515+. Would that increase my chance for any MD schools? I don't mind going to a DO school but would still like to shoot my shot for MD schools because I'm worried about the MD/DO merger for residency matches. I want to be in primary care or EM in underserved communities.
And yes! I'm going to have one of the professors that helped me with the case to write my LOR. I will also have a committee letter from my undergrad.

What is your MCAT score?

 

[Shotapp]

Plenty of people use their life story to explain low gpa in their secondaries. The point is to give some kind of an explanation and prove that you're a hard-working/reinvented student, assuming you have a rising trend. I never said I'm trying to get a pass with this story. You just assumed which is idiotic since you know nothing about me. I asked this question because I have an arrest record that got expunged and med school app asks about whether you've been arrested.
"Honestly, a lot of people in life have gone through much worse situations than your experience." That is the most ignorant statement I've ever seen. Everyone's hardships are to each their own. Just because someone else got a worse experience (which is subjective) doesn't mean my experience was any better. I really hope you're not going to be a doctor with that kind of mindset. It's never wise to try to downplay someone else's experience without knowing everything.
I assume you're not a minority. Try having 3 cruisers pull up behind you and multiple Caucasian officers pointing their guns at you demanding you to get on the ground. And I must remind you, I was volunteering and did nothing wrong. They still arrested me even after they realized it was a misunderstanding and didn't read me my rights. I went through 6 months of therapy/counseling while running around trying to get a lawyer and collect evidence from witnesses (all during school year). I also don't have any family in this country so I had no support from anyone except my friends and some professors who were kind enough to give me advice. My case was thrown out immediately because of how stupid it was.

I apologize for assuming you were trying to get a pass for the unfortunate experience you went through. It was idiotic of me. I'm glad that you were able to bounce back and establish an upward trend. You should be competitive for MD/DO. Your app really depends on how you do on your MCAT retake. Emergency medicine is not difficult for DOs to match in. I'm actually urm (African Canadian).

What urm do you represent?

 

[Kira010]

What is your MCAT score?

511 but I want to retake it and show my strength in B/B and C/P.

 

[Goro]

511 but I want to retake it and show my strength in B/B and C/P.

Just a caveat, most people who retake either stay the same, go down or only go up a point or two.

 

[Kira010]

Just a caveat, most people who retake either stay the same, go down or only go up a point or two.

I assume an extra point or two won't make much of a difference? 513+ would be great for me honestly
MD schools I'm looking at are Albany Medical, New York Medical. SUNY downstate, CUNY, Quinnipac, Geisinger Commonwealth, Drexel, Temple, and maybe some schools in Florida since they have a good amount of OOS students.
For DO schools, Lake Erie (both campuses), Nova, NYIT, Touro, and maybe some schools in Cali.

 

[Goro]

I assume an extra point or two won't make much of a difference? 513+ would be great for me honestly
MD schools I'm looking at are Albany Medical, New York Medical. SUNY downstate, CUNY, Quinnipac, Geisinger Commonwealth, Drexel, Temple, and maybe some schools in Florida since they have a good amount of OOS students.
For DO schools, Lake Erie (both campuses), Nova, NYIT, Touro, and maybe some schools in Cali.

Here are the schools I'd recommend. You have only a single good year of GPA, which won't a lot of proof of reinvention for MD schools, but best to invest in MSAR and target those schools where your GPAs are > their 10th %iles. Pay very careful attention to the IS/OOS rations for apps vs IIs for the public schools.

EVMS
U Miami
Jefferson
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
ALL SUNYs if you're a NYer.
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NYU.LI
U VM (maybe)

NOTE: CUNY is only for the people in their BS/MD program.

Any DO program. I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.

 

[Kira010]

@Goro
Thank you for this really. I have MSAR but didn't know where to start for making a list.
I really hope 3 semesters of good gpa and a decent MCAT(if I can raise it by 2-3 points) will be enough to show schools that I'm worth looking into.
Does it help at all if a particular med school that I'm applying to has accepted students from my undergrad every year? Also, what are your thoughts on applying to new MD schools like Hackensack Meridian and Kaiser Permanante? Kaiser doesn't really have a good reputation in Cali from what I've heard.
I will definitely exclude those DO schools you mentioned from my list. I think my top choices are NYIT, Touro, and Lake Erie.

 

[Goro]

@Goro
Thank you for this really. I have MSAR but didn't know where to start for making a list.
I really hope 3 semesters of good gpa and a decent MCAT(if I can raise it by 2-3 points) will be enough to show schools that I'm worth looking into.
Does it help at all if a particular med school that I'm applying to has accepted students from my undergrad every year? Also, what are your thoughts on applying to new MD schools like Hackensack Meridian and Kaiser Permanante? Kaiser doesn't really have a good reputation in Cali from what I've heard.
I will definitely exclude those DO schools you mentioned from my list. I think my top choices are NYIT, Touro, and Lake Erie.

Any new MD school will be fine (except CNU). I haven't heard complaints about Kaiser, but the new CalU Med causes thew wise gyngyn to have qualms, which is no mean feat. But Kaiser, being a school that has a free ride for their first five Classes, and being in CA, will be very hard for a non-CA person to break into. Hence, I can't recommend it to you, Kira.

The UG -> med school pipe is helpful. The med school knows the quality of your school's graduates.

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro ! Thank you for the guide.

• I currently have a 2.9cGPA and 2.7sGPA.
  • I had all C's for bio 1&2 and chem 1&2 my freshman year
  • D twice in Phys 2
  • Other than that big upward trend soph year and decrease but steady last 2 years
• Neuro major
• URM AA/low socioeconomic.
• I am a texas resident trying to figure out what to do from here.

I was looking at the post bacc, but I am unsure if I should do structured or DIY. I have been lurking but I would like some specific advice if possible. I just graduated and I am studying for the MCAT currently with practice exams around 510. My ECs are nothing spectacular enough to make up for grades other than I have worked my entire college career.


Thank you!

In general, post-bac programs are for career switchers. You're going ot have to do some research to find one that is for GPA repair and provides MCAT prep

 

[Ramona Flowers]

Hey @Goro ! Hoping for some help with a school list, applying MD and DO. My stats are 3.58cGPA, 3.4sGPA, 514 MCAT, AZ resident, ORM, 1300+ clinical hours, 300+ clinical volunteering, 300+ misc volunteering, 600+ research (unpublished), various leadership and teaching experiences, published public health thesis, heavy community service focus. Somewhat non-traditional, I've been working in domestic violence & sexual assault for the past year out of school. Good, well-rounded LORs.

MD so far:
Albany
Tulane
UA-Tucson
OHSU
CU-Denver
Geisinger
EVMS
Netter
Drexel
Rosy Franklin
Jacobs School Buffalo
Virginia tech
UVM
Rutgers RWJ
Rush
Toledo
Wright State Boonshoft
NYMC
Michigan State college of human medicine
California Uni of Science and Med
Hoping for a critique of these or to add a couple more on the list!

Any help is so appreciated, thank you!

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro ! Hoping for some help with a school list, applying MD and DO. My stats are 3.58cGPA, 3.4sGPA, 514 MCAT, AZ resident, ORM, 1300+ clinical hours, 300+ clinical volunteering, 300+ misc volunteering, 600+ research (unpublished), various leadership and teaching experiences, published public health thesis, heavy community service focus. Somewhat non-traditional, I've been working in domestic violence & sexual assault for the past year out of school. Good, well-rounded LORs.

MD so far:
Albany
Tulane
UA-Tucson
OHSU
CU-Denver
Geisinger
EVMS
Netter
Drexel
Rosy Franklin
Jacobs School Buffalo
Virginia tech
UVM
Rutgers RWJ
Rush
Toledo
Wright State Boonshoft
NYMC
Michigan State college of human medicine
California Uni of Science and Med
Hoping for a critique of these or to add a couple more on the list!

Any help is so appreciated, thank you!

What are your year by year GPAs?
As of right now, delete Wright State, SUNY-B, Va tech, Geisinger, OHSU, Rutgers, Cal SM, MSU,

Add some DO schools. Suggest AZCOM, Touro-CA, TUNCOM, both Westerns, RVU, DMU, KCU

 

[Ramona Flowers]

What are your year by year GPAs?
As of right now, delete Wright State, SUNY-B, Va tech, Geisinger, OHSU, Rutgers, Cal SM, MSU,

Add some DO schools. Suggest AZCOM, Touro-CA, TUNCOM, both Westerns, RVU, DMU, KCU

Thanks for the edits! GPA has been a pretty mixed bag: 3.34 --> 4.0 --> 3.24 --> 3.76

 

[Goro]

Thanks for the edits! GPA has been a pretty mixed bag: 3.34 --> 4.0 --> 3.24 --> 3.76

Invest in MSAR and target those MD schools on this list where your GPAs are closest to their acceptee medians. Also include the DO schools as above. Your undulating GPAs are worrisome.

U CO
Tufts
Nova MD
U VM
Miami
George Washington
Georgetown
SLU
Albany
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
MCW
VCU
EVMS
Wayne State
Wake Forest
Netter
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
Loyola
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Oakland-B
Seton Hall
TCU/UNT
Both U AZ's

 

[Goro]

@Goro
Hi Goro, I am looking for advice on my situation.
I graduated a couple years ago with a science degree from a california university cgpa 2.49 and sgpa 2.16. Since then, I have enrolled in a DIY post-bacc retaking the classes I have a C- and under and a couple C's for mcat refresher. I have been in the DIY Post-bacc taking 10-12 units a semester while working full time..

My DIY post-bacc has been:
Spring 2019 - 1 class (3 units) biochem
Fall 2019 - 4 classes (10 units) chem 2, chem 2 lab, cell bio, physiology
Spring 2020 - 4 classes (11 units) ochem 1, ochem 1 lab, bio 1, neuroscience
Summer 2020 - 2 classes (6 units) genetics and bio 2
Total of 30 units currently and taking another 11 units this fall 2020 semester.
This has brought my gpa from cgpa 2.49 to 2.73 and sgpa (amcas) 2.16 to 2.6 and sgpa (aacomas) 2.18 to 2.62 with a postbacc sgpa of 3.83. If I were to go for the >3.0 gpa cutoff I calculated I need a total of 75-76 units (45-46 to go) but I have read your thread and you mentioned it's almost impossible mathematically and I wanted your professional opinion on what you think I should do. (Planning to take mcat this upcoming spring, and have extracurricular activities with 2 LOR from shadowing DOs when I am ready to apply).

Also, looking at MSAR, what number do I use for cgpa and sgpa?
Thanks a lot!

Take the MCAT and then do an SMP hosted by a med school.

And reinventors can't go by MSAR for stats

 

[AKpremed3]

@Goro
Hi Goro, some guidance for my situation would be greatly appreciated.
I went through 3.5 years (94 credits) of school in Arizona with very little academic interest or clue of where I was going and ended up with a 3.01 and 4 withdrawals. My final semester there I figured out what I wanted to do and got a 4.0 (19 credits).
I returned to my state school in AK after that where I did 2 years (72 credits) with a 3.97 to graduate Biology.

I am now doing a DIY post bacc while completing a second degree in Psychology this summer through spring which I expect will end with around 45 credits at 4.0, pushing my cumulative up to 3.5 cGPA, 3.3 sGPA with a 516 MCAT.

I'm a white male, first gen college student, with 2000 hours research experience, 3000 hours clinical experience working for a clinic serving the Alaskan native population, 200 hours volunteering at the food bank, 50 shadowing hours and plenty of strong letters of recommendation, I've also worked at least 40 hours a week during my time back in AK through each semester if that matters.

1) I'm hoping for some guidance on whether or not I should do more before the 2021-2022 cycle to show my reinvention
2) I'd also like to know what tier of schools I should be aiming for after this bumpy beginning

All help is appreciated, thanks guys!

 

[Goro]

@Goro
Hi Goro, some guidance for my situation would be greatly appreciated.
I went through 3.5 years (94 credits) of school in Arizona with very little academic interest or clue of where I was going and ended up with a 3.01 and 4 withdrawals. My final semester there I figured out what I wanted to do and got a 4.0 (19 credits).
I returned to my state school in AK after that where I did 2 years (72 credits) with a 3.97 to graduate Biology.

I am now doing a DIY post bacc while completing a second degree in Psychology this summer through spring which I expect will end with around 45 credits at 4.0, pushing my cumulative up to 3.5 cGPA, 3.3 sGPA with a 516 MCAT.

I'm a white male, first gen college student, with 2000 hours research experience, 3000 hours clinical experience working for a clinic serving the Alaskan native population, 200 hours volunteering at the food bank, 50 shadowing hours and plenty of strong letters of recommendation, I've also worked at least 40 hours a week during my time back in AK through each semester if that matters.

1) I'm hoping for some guidance on whether or not I should do more before the 2021-2022 cycle to show my reinvention
2) I'd also like to know what tier of schools I should be aiming for after this bumpy beginning

All help is appreciated, thanks guys!

I think your reinvention has been great and no need to do any more.

I suggest the following. Ignore the concept of tiers, which is only of interest to ignorant pre-meds and med school Deans.
Columbia
Vandy
Dartmouth
BU
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Keck (maybe)
UCSF
EVMS
U Miami
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
U WA
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NYU.LI

Any DO program. I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.

 

[AKpremed3]

I think your reinvention has been great and no need to do any more.

I suggest the following. Ignore the concept of tiers, which is only of interest to ignorant pre-meds and med school Deans.
Columbia
Vandy
Dartmouth
BU
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Keck (maybe)
UCSF
EVMS
U Miami
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
U WA
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NYU.LI

Any DO program. I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.

Lesson learned, thank you for the help!

 

[Goro]

Thank you for your advice! Is there any pros and cons versus sticking it out for the next 45 units in the postbacc and applying with a gpa very close to the 3.0 mark or to do the SMP. I understand the SMP has more value (high risk high reward). I would be taking the remaining 30 units in my diy postbacc /in the same time window as I would be if I were in a SMP.

Waste of money...diminishing returns on your investment. You've proved the you of now is not the you of then.

 

[MarE2Med]

Hey Goro.
I wanted to get your thoughts on this.
I'll be graduating this December after what seems like a lifetime in undergrad.

Had some rocky semesters, i'll spare you the details, but I got my crap together and have 4.0'd the last 25 credits. I'm only taking 8 this coming semester for financial reasons and bc, at 169 credits taken, I'm trying to save as many upper level science classes for a diy pb.

The problem is that because I've taken 169 credits, an additional 30 won't do much for me. I'd go from a 3.22 cgpa and a 3.0 sgpa to a 3.34 cgpa and a 3.17 sgpa.

I and that it's not about the GPA at this point and that I need to focus instead on showing who I am now isnt who I was back then.... but do you think taking 30 postbacc credits over the next 2-3 semesters is enough to show that improvement or would it be more worthwhile to just do the SMP?


I should mention I scored a 518 on the MCAT, have a lot of community service, clinical and nonclinical volunteering, and have worked as a cna/phlebotomist/staffing coordinator/bed control coordinator for 4 years. Also a veteran and the first person in my family to graduate from college in the last 4 generations.

Plus I truly do not care about which letters I put after my name and would be as happy to attend an osteopathic school as an allopathic one.

Would love to hear from you.

 

[wangb24]

Hi @Goro ,

Is doing a DIY post-bacc at a cc fine? I am taking their biology classes offered since the nearby colleges are too expensive. I am taking about 13 semester units.

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro ,

Is doing a DIY post-bacc at a cc fine? I am taking their biology classes offered since the nearby colleges are too expensive. I am taking about 13 semester units.

If money is an issue, it's OK. But can you really get upper level bio courses there???

 

[Goro]

I and that it's not about the GPA at this point and that I need to focus instead on showing who I am now isnt who I was back then.... but do you think taking 30 postbacc credits over the next 2-3 semesters is enough to show that improvement or would it be more worthwhile to just do the SMP?

Yes, that should be enough, especially when combined with your stellar MCAT score.

 

[Shotapp]

Hi @Goro ,

Is doing a DIY post-bacc at a cc fine? I am taking their biology classes offered since the nearby colleges are too expensive. I am taking about 13 semester units.

Not Goro but that should be fine especially during this pandemic and economic down turn. Always opt for the most affordable option to do your diy post-bac if money is tight.

 

[LimitlessActionPotential]

Hi Goro!

I graduated from my university with many great experiences and believe I have really shown a longitudinal commitment to healthcare to make sure I am very well-rounded for medical school. I have had multiple healthcare provider roles including nurses assistant experience in a memory care unit, PCA work, and now work as an ED scribe at a large university hospital. Total healthcare hours are at ~2000 and counting. I was also very involved with the local university's community and even founded and ran a student club alongside a nonprofit organization. Total hours with that experience alone is around 500 hours. Lastly, I was lucky enough to be involved in an incredible research experience with multiple poster presentations, and an abstract publication in the Journal of Immunology.

I found myself spread a bit too thing a times and graduated with a cumulative GPA at ~3.0, and science GPA at ~2.6.
I have since taken it upon myself to improve via post-bacc courses. During the summer I took 18 credits and posted a 3.93 GPA (all high level science courses) which raised my sGPA to ~2.8. I will be taking more courses in the fall to continue my reinvention and get above a 3.0 sGPA. MCAT scores will be back in early Sept.

My question to you is, do I attempt to apply DO this cycle (if my MCAT is around 505), or apply to a competitive SMP to become more attractive to MD+DO schools?

Thanks so much in advance!

 

[Shotapp]

apply to a competitive SMP to become more attractive to MD+DO

I'm not Goro but I suggest the option above. You killed it in the Summer by getting a 3.93 GPA. I'm pretty sure if you study and prep very well, you can get a 510+ MCAT score. Doing/crushing a SMP with a solid MCAT score will open more doors for you and you will hit the ground running once medical school starts. Good luck!

 

[Goro]

Hi Goro!

I graduated from my university with many great experiences and believe I have really shown a longitudinal commitment to healthcare to make sure I am very well-rounded for medical school. I have had multiple healthcare provider roles including nurses assistant experience in a memory care unit, PCA work, and now work as an ED scribe at a large university hospital. Total healthcare hours are at ~2000 and counting. I was also very involved with the local university's community and even founded and ran a student club alongside a nonprofit organization. Total hours with that experience alone is around 500 hours. Lastly, I was lucky enough to be involved in an incredible research experience with multiple poster presentations, and an abstract publication in the Journal of Immunology.

I found myself spread a bit too thing a times and graduated with a cumulative GPA at ~3.0, and science GPA at ~2.6.
I have since taken it upon myself to improve via post-bacc courses. During the summer I took 18 credits and posted a 3.93 GPA (all high level science courses) which raised my sGPA to ~2.8. I will be taking more courses in the fall to continue my reinvention and get above a 3.0 sGPA. MCAT scores will be back in early Sept.

My question to you is, do I attempt to apply DO this cycle (if my MCAT is around 505), or apply to a competitive SMP to become more attractive to MD+DO schools?

Thanks so much in advance!

One great summer isn't enough reinvention for my taste. And you'd still be DOA at my school and many other. You may have a shot with the newest schools, but you deserve better.

I suggest going for more post-bac work (like another 12-15 hrs, and do well on MCAT.

 

[LimitlessActionPotential]

One great summer isn't enough reinvention for my taste. And you'd still be DOA at my school and many other. You may have a shot with the newest schools, but you deserve better.

I suggest going for more post-bac work (like another 12-15 hrs, and do well on MCAT.

Thanks for the suggestion!
Would it be necessary to get my sGPA to 3.0 if I plan on completing a SMP?
Also, are my current stats competitive for some of the top SMP programs? Which would you recommend?

I appreciate your time!!

 

[Goro]

Thanks for the suggestion!
Would it be necessary to get my sGPA to 3.0 if I plan on completing a SMP?
Also, are my current stats competitive for some of the top SMP programs? Which would you recommend?

I appreciate your time!!

I don't know if mathematically you'll be able to get your sGPA to 3.0, so you might as well try for the SMP. You're going ot have to do your research on which programs you're eligible for. I don't keep a list of these things.

I don't give recommendations as to individual SMPs or post-bac programs, because they're pretty much a dime-a-dozen.. You should go for:

1) the cheapest tuition

2) a program given at a host medical school

3) is one year in length

4) has the best linkage deal.

 

[wangb24]

If money is an issue, it's OK. But can you really get upper level bio courses there???

Hi Goro, unfortunately money is an issue. I'm taking classes that sound like upper division bio courses such as pharmacology, physiology and disease mechanisms, stats, and biology of aging.

 

[Goro]

Hi Goro, unfortunately money is an issue. I'm taking classes that sound like upper division bio courses such as pharmacology, physiology and disease mechanisms, stats, and biology of aging.

Sounds like a plan. Forge ahead, do well, and don't look back.

 

[bruinslakers824]

Hi everyone, I received my MCAT score today and I received a 508 (126/126/129/127). However, I have a really low GPA (3.1 cGPA, 3.0 sGPA).

My plan is to do a DIY post bacc and take ~40 units (spanning over the course of 1 year) of upper division science courses (physiology, immunology, virology, etc). I know I can't predict future performance, but I am committed to doing well in these classes.

Would this be the best course of action for me if my target schools are mainly DO? (strong interest in EM/primary care).

Would it be worth it for me to retake the MCAT? I was averaging 513-514 on all my practice tests so I'm a little bit disappointed. However, I did show some improvement from the first time I took the test (500, 122/129/123/126)

Some background:
ORM in CA (asian)
Graduated from top 20 school in 2018.
600+ hours scribing, 500+ hours research, 200 hrs shadowing, 200 hours volunteering in tutoring kids, various leadership positions in clubs/campus orgs

 

[Goro]

Hi everyone, I received my MCAT score today and I received a 508 (126/126/129/127). However, I have a really low GPA (3.1 cGPA, 3.0 sGPA).

My plan is to do a DIY post bacc and take ~40 units (spanning over the course of 1 year) of upper division science courses (physiology, immunology, virology, etc). I know I can't predict future performance, but I am committed to doing well in these classes.

Would this be the best course of action for me if my target schools are mainly DO? (strong interest in EM/primary care).

Would it be worth it for me to retake the MCAT? I was averaging 513-514 on all my practice tests so I'm a little bit disappointed. However, I did show some improvement from the first time I took the test (500, 122/129/123/126)

Some background:
ORM in CA (asian)
Graduated from top 20 school in 2018.
600+ hours scribing, 500+ hours research, 200 hrs shadowing, 200 hours volunteering in tutoring kids, various leadership positions in clubs/campus orgs

For DO, no need to retake the MCAT!
Ace the post-bac
Shadow a DO and get LOR from same

 

[bruinslakers824]

For DO, no need to retake the MCAT!
Ace the post-bac
Shadow a DO and get LOR from same

Thanks Goro! I actually work with a bunch of DOs in the ER and feel very comfortable asking one of them for a LOR. I'm committed to acing those classes! You're the best haha

 

[swim97]

I have about 150~ credits of a cGPA of 2.9, with a lot of Withdrawals (about 14 W's due to a recent Semester Withdrawal). It's about the ugliest transcript you'll ever see. I am afraid the damage is so deep I am tempted to apply with four semesters of DIY post-bacc and an additional SMP

I've already done 32 credits (Last semester and the Summer) of 3.7+. I am planning on applying to an SMP this next spring and taking two post-bacc semesters (This Fall, Next Spring is DIY Post-Bacc, SMP Starts next year.). Is this overkill? (64 credits Post-Bacc and SMP). No MCAT yet, taking this Winter.

I want some time in between my semester withdrawal, which was just last year before applying to Medical School. Applying the year after I feel is rather risky.

 

[Goro]

I have about 150~ credits of a cGPA of 2.9, with a lot of Withdrawals (about 14 W's due to a recent Semester Withdrawal). It's about the ugliest transcript you'll ever see. I am afraid the damage is so deep I am tempted to apply with four semesters of DIY post-bacc and an additional SMP

I've already done 32 credits (Last semester and the Summer) of 3.7+. I am planning on applying to an SMP this next spring and taking two post-bacc semesters (This Fall, Next Spring is DIY Post-Bacc, SMP Starts next year.). Is this overkill? (64 credits Post-Bacc and SMP). No MCAT yet, taking this Winter.

I want some time in between my semester withdrawal, which was just last year before applying to Medical School. Applying the year after I feel is rather risky.

With 32 credits of 3.7+, you're ready for an SMP

 

[Hulk_MD]

Hello, I had a question about my coursework. I finished undergrad in 2014 with a 3.5 GPA and completed a Master's in 2016 with a 3.97 GPA. Problem is I have not taken classes since 2016 and instead have been working full time as a MRI technologist. My MCAT was a 512 in January 2020. Is this going to be a problem for me applying to medical schools? Should I be looking into an SMP or doing a DIY post bacc to demonstrate my competency in the classroom?