Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

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Hi Mr. Goro I hope you are safe and well. I am unsure as to what I should do and would greatly appreciate your advice. I have 15 W's littered throughout my degree in bio. However, my 5th year I received no Ws because I now know better. My cGPA and sGPA are both 3.6 with a strong upward trend.
Would my reputation be repaired if I were to do 30 credits in a second bachelor's but in chemistry? My university awards a second degree once you've earned 30 credits of required classes given the student already has a bachelor's degree. I can not do a DIY post bacc because all of my instate schools put a limit to how many non-degree seeking credits you can take.
The BS in chem would show a second strong year of no Ws and both cGPA + sGPA would be raised to about a 3.67 (given I earn As). Or would it be better to do a master's program or SMP? Please help!
 
Hi Mr. Goro I hope you are safe and well. I am unsure as to what I should do and would greatly appreciate your advice. I have 15 W's littered throughout my degree in bio. However, my 5th year I received no Ws because I now know better. My cGPA and sGPA are both 3.6 with a strong upward trend.
Would my reputation be repaired if I were to do 30 credits in a second bachelor's but in chemistry? My university awards a second degree once you've earned 30 credits of required classes given the student already has a bachelor's degree. I can not do a DIY post bacc because all of my instate schools put a limit to how many non-degree seeking credits you can take.
The BS in chem would show a second strong year of no Ws and both cGPA + sGPA would be raised to about a 3.67 (given I earn As). Or would it be better to do a master's program or SMP? Please help!
OK, be honest, why so many Ws?
 
Hi Goro I hope this isn’t annoying. I have a question regarding post baccalaureate coursework. Attached is a photo of my transcript indicating that I am taking coursework (after receiving my B.S. degree). I am classified as a non-degree seeking student at this school and I am not earning a degree from this institution.

However, the courses that I am taking are designated as graduate in the institution’s registration system. Since I already earned a B.S. degree, the institution informed me to apply as a graduate student even though I am not pursuing a graduate degree from this institution.

Will this count toward my graduate or post baccalaureate GPA calculation on the AMCAS application when I input my coursework?
 

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Hi @Goro ,

So I did really poorly in undergrad, 2.9 sGPA. I was dealing with depression and sleep apnea. It took me a couple of years to establish my own support system of friends, exercise, therapy, medication, meditation, and using my CPAP every night. During my senior year, I knew I was in a much healthier place and ready to take on academic challenges, so I enrolled in a master's program. In my first semester I took Gross Anatomy and Medical Neurosciences with M1's and I got A-'s in both courses. Overall I got a 3.8 graduate GPA. I took the MCAT after I finished my program and got a 517. I currently in the process of writing a publication where I am first-author, and I've had amazing longitudinal relationships with patients as a Refugee Patient Navigator.

I know physician burnout is a serious issue, and I am more vulnerable to getting burnout because of my history. That is why I really threw myself into challenges so I can refine my coping strategies and prove to myself that I can thrive in this profession. I'm certainly not cured, but I'm very stable. I'm vigilant about my mood, and proactive about managing it. My question is should I mention my depression and sleep apnea in the secondaries that ask about any academic concerns or examples of overcoming adversity? I know people have implicit biases, not everyone will be receptive to my story, and I will have to craft this essay really delicately. But, the big jump in my grades is an elephant in the room, would it do me more harm to just ignore it?

Your reinvented applicant school list was the perfect resource for me, and I can't thank you enough for that information. You saved me hours of directionless searching for that kind of information. Any information would be super helpful!
 
Hi @Goro ,

So I did really poorly in undergrad, 2.9 sGPA. I was dealing with depression and sleep apnea. It took me a couple of years to establish my own support system of friends, exercise, therapy, medication, meditation, and using my CPAP every night. During my senior year, I knew I was in a much healthier place and ready to take on academic challenges, so I enrolled in a master's program. In my first semester I took Gross Anatomy and Medical Neurosciences with M1's and I got A-'s in both courses. Overall I got a 3.8 graduate GPA. I took the MCAT after I finished my program and got a 517. I currently in the process of writing a publication where I am first-author, and I've had amazing longitudinal relationships with patients as a Refugee Patient Navigator.

I know physician burnout is a serious issue, and I am more vulnerable to getting burnout because of my history. That is why I really threw myself into challenges so I can refine my coping strategies and prove to myself that I can thrive in this profession. I'm certainly not cured, but I'm very stable. I'm vigilant about my mood, and proactive about managing it. My question is should I mention my depression and sleep apnea in the secondaries that ask about any academic concerns or examples of overcoming adversity? I know people have implicit biases, not everyone will be receptive to my story, and I will have to craft this essay really delicately. But, the big jump in my grades is an elephant in the room, would it do me more harm to just ignore it?

Your reinvented applicant school list was the perfect resource for me, and I can't thank you enough for that information. You saved me hours of directionless searching for that kind of information. Any information would be super helpful!
You can mention your health history and then discuss your MS performance to allay any Adcom member's fears. This is good fodder for adversity essays.

And with a screen name like that, I'd autoaccept you at my program!
 
Hi @Goro ,

I have a question and I wanted to see your perspective on this. According to my verified AACOMAS, I have a cgpa of 3.64, and 3.74 sgpa (with massive upward trend). I plan on taking the MCAT in September, but recently came upon a Harvard Extension School 1 year masters in bioengineering and nanotechnology. It contains some pretty interesting upper level courses for human physiology and genetics, cancer, proteomics, genomics, and epigenetics. Do you think it’s worth pursuing this degree for reinvention or should I focus on my mcat and send out applications?
 
I have a cgpa of 3.64, and 3.74 sgpa (with massive upward trend)

You already have demonstrated reinvention!

Thanks @Goro!

I’m really hoping that due to covid, applying to DO schools mid to late September won’t be too late...
 
That will NOT be too late, even in a normal cycle. Even T-giving won't be late.
With covid possibly affecting this cycle, what would be an acceptable date to apply to MD schools this year? And what would be the latest MCAT test date that would still allow an applicant to be in consideration for acceptance this cycle (both MD and DO)?
 
With covid possibly affecting this cycle, what would be an acceptable date to apply to MD schools this year? And what would be the latest MCAT test date that would still allow an applicant to be in consideration for acceptance this cycle (both MD and DO)?
This is a murkier question. My opinion is end of Sept/early Oct for MD, and Xmas for DO to apply.

For MCAT? MAYBE mid Sept for MD, mid to end Oct for DO.

Let's call out the big guns and see what they have to say

@LizzyM
@Med Ed
@Moko
@Angus Avagadro
@Mr.Smile12
@lord999
@LunaOri
@Catalystic
 
This is a murkier question. My opinion is end of Sept/early Oct for MD, and Xmas for DO to apply.

For MCAT? MAYBE mid Sept for MD, mid to end Oct for DO.

Let's call out the big guns and see what they have to say

@LizzyM
@Med Ed
@Moko
@Angus Avagadro
@Mr.Smile12
@lord999
@LunaOri
@Catalystic
Thank you for your response. When you say end of Sept/early Oct for MD, are you referring to submitting to the schools by that time or having secondaries, LORs, and everything already submitted by then?
 
Submitting primaries
I registered to take the MCAT earlier in the year but due to covid and other circumstances, I was only able to pick a date in September when rescheduling. I am frequently looking for sooner available appointments that are relatively close to my area. If I am not able to pick an earlier date, I would be stuck with a Sept. 27 date (with an Oct. 13 score release). I do plan on applying to both MD and DO, but I am worried that the late score will tank my chances at an MD school. I have been able to start prewriting secondaries, so I possibly could have quick turnaround. But I am not sure if that would help enough. I have already sent my application to AMCAS for verification, taken the CASPer Test, and I have my LORs ready. The MCAT is really the only thing I have left. Considering my current situation, would you suggest just focusing on DO schools instead?
 
I registered to take the MCAT earlier in the year but due to covid and other circumstances, I was only able to pick a date in September when rescheduling. I am frequently looking for sooner available appointments that are relatively close to my area. If I am not able to pick an earlier date, I would be stuck with a Sept. 27 date (with an Oct. 13 score release). I do plan on applying to both MD and DO, but I am worried that the late score will tank my chances at an MD school. I have been able to start prewriting secondaries, so I possibly could have quick turnaround. But I am not sure if that would help enough. I have already sent my application to AMCAS for verification, taken the CASPer Test, and I have my LORs ready. The MCAT is really the only thing I have left. Considering my current situation, would you suggest just focusing on DO schools instead?
Unfortunately, in the age of COVID, you might indeed be too late for MD. Your state school will always be your best chance.

This is going sound harsh, but your health, and that of your family and society's, are more important than your med school applications.
 
Hi Goro, I'm in the midst of reinvention after doing poorly in a few prereqs/BCPM classes during undergrad, and it's going well. I completed physics, bio, and gen chem at a local CC, and I just finished o chem at a local 4 year university with a 4.0. I need some advice about my schedule for this fall. On top of taking biochem, I will either be taking genetics or being a TA for my CC gen chem professor. I'd love to do both, but between full time work, volunteering, and a family, I will have to choose just one. My question is, which option do you think would be more beneficial/look better to adcoms? I know that adcoms like to see upper level bio classes like genetics, especially for reinventors. It would also help prepare me for the MCAT. On the other hand, gen chem is one of the classes I did poorly in during undergrad, so being a TA could show that I really have turned things around and am capable of mastering topics that I used to struggle in. Being a TA would also likely help me review for the MCAT. I do already have recent teaching experience on my resume, so TAing wouldn't add much in that regard. What are your thoughts?
 
Right now you goal s to reinvent your GPA, not thinking about "what looks good"
Once I complete biochem in the fall, I think my GPA reinvention will be complete. I'll have taken 39 post-bac credits with a 4.0 (or close to it, depending on how I do in biochem), and I will have bumped my sGPA over the 3.0 threshold. I suppose my question isn't so much "what looks good" to adcoms, rather which option would give them the most confidence that I can succeed in a medical school curriculum? While TAing would be a good opportunity for MCAT review and help get me a great LOR, I don't want adcoms to think I haven't pushed myself enough because my fall term only consisted of one class.
 
Once I complete biochem in the fall, I think my GPA reinvention will be complete. I'll have taken 39 post-bac credits with a 4.0 (or close to it, depending on how I do in biochem), and I will have bumped my sGPA over the 3.0 threshold. I suppose my question isn't so much "what looks good" to adcoms, but which option would give them the most confidence that I can succeed in a medical school curriculum? While TAing would be a good opportunity for MCAT review and help get me a great LOR, I don't want adcoms to think I haven't pushed myself enough because my fall term only consisted of one class.
TA is low on totem pole of things we look for.

Service others? Very high
 
TA is low on totem pole of things we look for.

Service others? Very high
In that case, I'll stick with the genetics class and get as many service hours in as possible. Thanks for your advice! It's much appreciated.
 
Hi Goro,

Currently continuing into my 2nd gap year (planning to apply this upcoming cycle) and I was wondering how to go about my GPA.

I graduated at a top public school in Texas in 2019, but ended up with a 3.15 sGPA and a 3.3 cGPA. It's also worth mentioning that I didn't really have an upward trends (made 2 C's freshman and sophomore year and 1 C in both my junior and senior year).

During my first gap year I did a DIY post-bacc and took 3 sciences classes at my local 4-year state school and supplemented it with 4 CC science classes (made all A's). My current sGPA/cGPA after this increased to a 3.25/3.45, respectively. Due to my current financial situation, I'm not in a place where I can afford to do an SMP take more 4 year university classes and was wondering if I should continue taking sciences classes at my local CC next semester? Or if it's okay to move on at this point (planning to get a full time job but not sure if I should look now or hold off to take more classes)?

I have a 516 MCAT score and pretty good EC's. I'm planning to apply to just my state schools in Texas, but I was wondering if I need to apply more broadly?
 
Hi Goro,

Currently continuing into my 2nd gap year (planning to apply this upcoming cycle) and I was wondering how to go about my GPA.

I graduated at a top public school in Texas in 2019, but ended up with a 3.15 sGPA and a 3.3 cGPA. It's also worth mentioning that I didn't really have an upward trends (made 2 C's freshman and sophomore year and 1 C in both my junior and senior year).

During my first gap year I did a DIY post-bacc and took 3 sciences classes at my local 4-year state school and supplemented it with 4 CC science classes (made all A's). My current sGPA/cGPA after this increased to a 3.25/3.45, respectively. Due to my current financial situation, I'm not in a place where I can afford to do an SMP take more 4 year university classes and was wondering if I should continue taking sciences classes at my local CC next semester? Or if it's okay to move on at this point (planning to get a full time job but not sure if I should look now or hold off to take more classes)?

I have a 516 MCAT score and pretty good EC's. I'm planning to apply to just my state schools in Texas, but I was wondering if I need to apply more broadly?
Obviously not goro, but I would apply a little more broadly just to play it safe due to sub 3.3 sGPA.
 
Hi Goro and readers. should I take a biochemistry lab course (online this fall at schools around me) or just look at another science lecture course (I already have biochem lecture) as part of a gpa-repair post-bacc?
 
Do you recommend SMP/post-bacc for someone with a 3.4GPA and 512 MCAT? I'm aiming for low-tier med schools that gave multiple acceptances to my undergrad every year. I also plan to apply to DO schools.
 
Hi Goro (or whoever can help me),
I can't decide whether to do a formal post-bacc or a diy. I was accepted into a second bachelor's at Dominican University's formal post-bacc but now I'm thinking I should just do a diy.
MY uGPA is 2.6 with a sGPA of 2.0 because I had some pretty bad mental health in early undergrad years. I was pre-med in undergrad so I really just need to retake some sciences course like gen chem and orgo so it might be cheaper and easier to just retake the classes I did poor in at a local 4 year university.
But I'm afraid I'd be missing out on the benefits of a formal post-bacc like a committee letter and MCAT prep that the program would include. I'm thinking with such a low GPA the only thing that could save me would be a formal post-bacc but it would just be way cheaper and more flexible to do diy.
Are formal post-baccs worth it if they're not SMP? Should I wait to apply for an SMP next semester or just stick with my second bachelor's post-bacc I got into? I'm afraid with my low GPA I won't get into a better formal post-bacc but at the least I have one school I got into or just diy.
Thanks for your help in advance!
 
Hi Goro,

Currently continuing into my 2nd gap year (planning to apply this upcoming cycle) and I was wondering how to go about my GPA.

I graduated at a top public school in Texas in 2019, but ended up with a 3.15 sGPA and a 3.3 cGPA. It's also worth mentioning that I didn't really have an upward trends (made 2 C's freshman and sophomore year and 1 C in both my junior and senior year).

During my first gap year I did a DIY post-bacc and took 3 sciences classes at my local 4-year state school and supplemented it with 4 CC science classes (made all A's). My current sGPA/cGPA after this increased to a 3.25/3.45, respectively. Due to my current financial situation, I'm not in a place where I can afford to do an SMP take more 4 year university classes and was wondering if I should continue taking sciences classes at my local CC next semester? Or if it's okay to move on at this point (planning to get a full time job but not sure if I should look now or hold off to take more classes)?

I have a 516 MCAT score and pretty good EC's. I'm planning to apply to just my state schools in Texas, but I was wondering if I need to apply more broadly?
I've yet to see any reinventor from TX get into schools outside of TX. Stick with TX and DO schools. The 516 MCAT alone will not likely make OOS Adcoms think that you're leave the Lone Star State.

Continue with the coursework as planned.
 
Hi Goro (or whoever can help me),
I can't decide whether to do a formal post-bacc or a diy. I was accepted into a second bachelor's at Dominican University's formal post-bacc but now I'm thinking I should just do a diy.
MY uGPA is 2.6 with a sGPA of 2.0 because I had some pretty bad mental health in early undergrad years. I was pre-med in undergrad so I really just need to retake some sciences course like gen chem and orgo so it might be cheaper and easier to just retake the classes I did poor in at a local 4 year university.
But I'm afraid I'd be missing out on the benefits of a formal post-bacc like a committee letter and MCAT prep that the program would include. I'm thinking with such a low GPA the only thing that could save me would be a formal post-bacc but it would just be way cheaper and more flexible to do diy.
Are formal post-baccs worth it if they're not SMP? Should I wait to apply for an SMP next semester or just stick with my second bachelor's post-bacc I got into? I'm afraid with my low GPA I won't get into a better formal post-bacc but at the least I have one school I got into or just diy.
Thanks for your help in advance!
Stick with a diy post-bac. You have a long journey ahead of you. You'll need to retake pre-reqs you received below a C and upper level biology courses. You have to bring your GPAs as close to a 3.0 as much as possible to avoid medical school cutoffs. You're no where near ready for a SMP (no SMP is going to admit with those abysmal numbers). Maintain/establish an upward trend in a diy post-bac. This is a marathon now, not a sprint.
 
Stick with a diy post-bac. You have a long journey ahead of you. You'll need to retake pre-reqs you received below a C and upper level biology courses. You have to bring your GPAs as close to a 3.0 as much as possible to avoid medical school cutoffs. You're no where near ready for a SMP (no SMP is going to admit with those abysmal numbers). Maintain/establish an upward trend in a diy post-bac. This is a marathon now, not a sprint.
Thanks for replying. So you don't think I should go ahead with post-bacc I was accepted into because I wouldn't do well?
I have no problem with diy but I know that most undergrads are doing all online for Fall 2020. To be honest I struggle a ton with online classes but I know post-bacc will be in person. Also do med schools accept online courses? I was told that they don't.
 
Stick with a diy post-bac. You have a long journey ahead of you. You'll need to retake pre-reqs you received below a C and upper level biology courses. You have to bring your GPAs as close to a 3.0 as much as possible to avoid medical school cutoffs. You're no where near ready for a SMP (no SMP is going to admit with those abysmal numbers). Maintain/establish an upward trend in a diy post-bac. This is a marathon now, not a sprint.
Sorry to intervene, as I have similar stats. There are SMPs that will consider you tho with a 2.5 GPA. Just saying cuz I applied to one. But in that respect, if you’re trying to get your GPA as close to a 3.0 as possible, like Goro said previously, isn’t that mathematically impossible? Because some people have taken more than 150 credits, so it would literally take them like 10 years or so to raise that GPA to a 3.0. So my question is what would be enough? If you can’t possible raise your GPA to a 3.0 (even though you’ve taken 60+ credits and got all As), what does a person do at that point? It kind of puts you in a tough spot because 1, your GPA is still too low for an SMP or a Post Bacc and too low for Med school apps. What do you do? Sorry I’ve been feeling really down about my stats and I’m just lost. I don’t know if I should continue on this path to Med school because I’m really determined to be a doctor, like even if it means I don’t speak to another person for a year and focus on school. But part of me still feels like it’s not even worth trying if people here on SDN consider a 3.4 as a low GPA, like seriously? Not to put them down or anything, but it’s really discouraging and sometimes I feel some type of way when someone says they overcame a 3.4 as a low GPA.
 
So you want to be a doctor, but your GPA is terrible. Is that the end? Rule #1: Take a deep breath, and stop fussing. The sky is not falling.

But you are going to need to reinvent yourself. This will take both time and money. And always remember that you’re in a marathon now, not a sprint. The following advice holds true for people considering MD and DO. I strongly recommend that you keep both in mind, and the latter is more tolerant of reinvention.

EDIT: An even better summary to the next paragraph is provided by the wise HomeSkool here: Simple rules for retaking courses

Here’s what you need to do :

a) IF you have F/D grades in the pre-reqs, retake them. You need to show that you can master this material, and it will help you for MCAT (assuming that you haven’t taken the MCAT). In addition, many schools require a C or higher grade in pre-reqs. Naturally, this will vary from school to school.

If you got C's, take some upper level science classes and ace them. There is no need to retake a C unless you are very weak on the material and you need it for MCAT. Never, ever retake a B or B-.

If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead.

b) There are MD schools that reward reinvention. All DO schools do. The DO path will be a little easier, but both still require an investment of 1-2 years of not GPA repair, but of transcript repair.

c) The goal is NOT to raise your cGPA to a sky high level (for some people this is mathematically impossible), but rather show that the you of now is not the you of then, and that you can handle a medical school curriculum. So do not worry that your cGPA will be 3.2 upon applying after finishing your post-bac/GPA. Rising GPA trends are always looked highly upon, and many med schools weight the last 2-3 years more than the entire cGPA.

d) Thus, take 1-2 years of a DIY post-bac, or a 1 year SMP, preferably one given at a medical school. Do well in either of these programs. A 3.5+ should suffice for a DO school, while 3.7+ will be needed for an MD school

e) in addition to d), your MCAT score will determine where to aim. I suggest:

513+ : MD schools

510+ : your state MD school and any DO school

505+: any DO school

500+: the newest DO schools

On top of these, get as much patient contact volunteering time in as possible. A trend I am seeing from SDNers who have received interviews from good schools and who also reinvented themselves, is that they have lots of clinical volunteering or employment...some even in the 1000s of hours.

As to the pluses and minuses of post-bac vs SMP:

A formal post-bac program is geared toward career switchers, and mostly provide the pre-reqs, and probably some MCAT advice/prep as well. You get faculty guidance in this and some programs seem to be feeders to med schools for non-trad students. They will cost more though.

Now, you can do the same thing on your own by simply taking continuing education courses at any nearby college. A four year school will be preferable to a community college (CC), but if costs are an issue, then a CC will be OK. This path is what is known here in SDN as the “DIY post-bac.” Costs will be less, but there’s no guidance.

What classes should one take in a DIY post-bac??? Things that mimic a medical school curriculum!

Anatomy
Biochem
Bioinformatics
Biostats
Cell Bio
Developmental Biology or Embryology
Histology
Immunology
Med Micro OR Bacteriology and/or Virology
Molecular Bio or Genetics
Neuroscience or Neurobiology
Parasitology (if offered)
Pathology
Physiology
Tumor or Cancer Biology

An SMP (special master’s program) is one that offers medical school classes, or material that’s taught in medical school. These can be a backdoor into med school, and you get real advice from med school faculty (if given at a med school). Plus, you're a known quantity to the Adcom members, who will frequently be your SMP faculty. The down side is that the tuition will be more considerable. You may also have to relocate in order to attend one.

There are some two year SMPs, but I don’t see any advantage to these over one year programs.

Also, if you do poorly, your SMP degree is worthless, unless the program has an added-value component, like some research venue. Thus, SMPs are more high risk, but also high reward.

One final word of warning: Do NOT take the MCAT while enrolled in an SMP. We’ve seen students do this, and it leads to disaster. Some programs require an MCAT, so that solves the problem (although they may have a minimum score requirement!).

And remember, med schools aren’t going anywhere, and in fact, by the time you apply, several more will have opened their doors.

Good luck!
I know this post was almost three years ago, but is this still relevant for these MD schools:
Pitt, Mayo, Hofstra, EVMS, Wake, Tufts, Dartmouth, the Philly Triplets, Loyola,
Tulane, NYMC, Albany, Drexel, Gtown, GWU, U Miami, BU, Duke, Columbia, UCSF, Case, Vandy, Rosy Franklin, New MD schools (Not CNU) Your state school.

For example, if someone had a 2.3 Undergrad GPA and an even lower sGPA and invested 2-3 yrs doing transcript repair, with a post bacc GPA of 4.0 and they got a 520 MCAT score, does this person have a chance at schools like Duke, Columbia, Dartmouth, top DO schools or should they just focus on the other schools here listed and other DO schools? Or completely narrow this list down?
Also if this person spent 2 yrs doing a DIY post bacc with a 4.0 GPA should they still go ahead and do an SMP because of the extremely low GPA? Sorry for the long post, I really do appreciate your time if you respond to this at all. Thanks!
 
Sorry to intervene, as I have similar stats. There are SMPs that will consider you tho with a 2.5 GPA. Just saying cuz I applied to one. But in that respect, if you’re trying to get your GPA as close to a 3.0 as possible, like Goro said previously, isn’t that mathematically impossible? Because some people have taken more than 150 credits, so it would literally take them like 10 years or so to raise that GPA to a 3.0. So my question is what would be enough? If you can’t possible raise your GPA to a 3.0 (even though you’ve taken 60+ credits and got all As), what does a person do at that point? It kind of puts you in a tough spot because 1, your GPA is still too low for an SMP or a Post Bacc and too low for Med school apps. What do you do? Sorry I’ve been feeling really down about my stats and I’m just lost. I don’t know if I should continue on this path to Med school because I’m really determined to be a doctor, like even if it means I don’t speak to another person for a year and focus on school. But part of me still feels like it’s not even worth trying if people here on SDN consider a 3.4 as a low GPA, like seriously? Not to put them down or anything, but it’s really discouraging and sometimes I feel some type of way when someone says they overcame a 3.4 as a low GPA.

Even if it's mathematically impossible to get to a 3.0, you still need to raise your GPAs as close as you can to it. How will you avoid GPA cutoffs by medical schools if you don't raise your stats? (your app will be automatically disregarded by a computer system. It won't even reach human eyeballs) Embarking on a SMP without establishing an upward trend in a diy post-bac is just setting yourself up for failure. Have you even calculated how many A's you'll need to raise both c/sGPAs? Plenty of members here have been able to follow @Goro's guide and found success. Like I said before this is a marathon now not a sprint.

What are your GPAs?
 
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Even if it's mathematically impossible to get to a 3.0, you still need to raise your GPAs as close as you can to it. How will you avoid GPA cutoffs by medical schools if you don't raise your stats? (your app will be automatically disregarded by a computer system. It won't even reach human eyeballs) Embarking on a SMP without establishing an upward trend in a diy post-bac is just setting yourself up for failure. Have you even calculated how many A's you'll need to raise both c/sGPAs? Plenty of members here have been able to follow @Goro's guide and found success. Like I said before this is a marathon now not a sprint.

What are your GPAs?
1.8 sGPA and 2.3 cGPA. I know a girl who just matriculated to Med school this fall with a 1.8sGPA and a 2.1 cGPA. She did an SMP that ended up giving her a Masters degree. It was one year and she had a 510 MCAT.
 
1.8 sGPA and 2.3 cGPA. I know a girl who just matriculated to Med school this fall with a 1.8sGPA and a 2.1 cGPA. She did an SMP that ended up giving her a Masters degree. It was one year and she had a 510 MCAT.
N=1
Just because you know someone that got in with such low stats doesn't mean it's a common occurrence or the same will happen for you (plus that is not the full picture of her app. Ecs/achievements?). Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
N=1
Just because you know someone that got in with such low stats doesn't mean it's a common occurrence or the same will happen for you (plus that is not the full picture of her app. Ecs/achievements?). Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Ok I understand. Thanks for the advice. I know it isn’t a common thing to happen, I guess I was just trying to still keep the light of hope alive in me to help keep pursuing my path to medicine. So what exactly are you saying? That my chances are slim and don’t even bother or should I keep pushing through? Let me share some of my ECs with you.

-I’m currently doing research at a top research institution almost close to getting a publication as a co-author assuming everything works out. (800+ hrs)

-I have about 300+ hours of clinical volunteering (patient contact).

-I also volunteered at my church for 4 yrs (non clinical volunteering) so that’s like easily 2000+ hrs. And my church has also held a lot of health fairs that I’ve helped out with as well, so that could be clinical too?

-I’ve had multiple leadership positions in my undergrad institution. (Committee member, senate member, worship leader etc)

-I spent 3 yrs working as a childcare assistant at a French school, because I love working with children (paid position tho) and I love to learn languages. I graduated with a minor in French.

-I was very active in some key orgs in my undergrad.

-I also just completed a CNA course and about to take the certification exam, so assuming if everything goes right, should rack up some more clinical experience (paid).

-I’ve only shadowed for 8 hrs with a breast oncologist. Was going to do more before COViD hit. Obviously am planning to do this on a regular consistent basis to keep build my motivation for becoming a physician.

I haven’t taken the MCAT because I realize that I really need to get a good score to help me out, so I’m taking my time with it to make sure I can maximize my chances of getting a higher score. I’ve built some great relationships with some of my professors over the years in undergrad that will gladly help me with LORs. So what do you think?

P.S I don’t know if you misunderstood me the last time but I am currently doing the DIY post bacc at the moment. My previous question was what to do after that and what my chances would be if I were to complete my DIY post bacc. Like if I should do the SMP after the post bacc or just apply to Med school after the post bacc. That’s what I meant.

Sorry for the long response. I know you’re trying to help and I really do appreciate you. Thanks!
 
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Ok I understand. Thanks for the advice. I know it isn’t a common thing to happen, I guess I was just trying to still keep the light of hope alive in me to help keep pursuing my path to medicine. So what exactly are you saying? That my chances are slim and don’t even bother or should I keep pushing through? Let me share some of my ECs with you.

-I’m currently doing research at a top research institution almost close to getting a publication as a co-author assuming everything works out. (800+ hrs)

-I have about 300+ hours of clinical volunteering (patient contact).

-I also volunteered at my church for 4 yrs (non clinical volunteering) so that’s like easily 2000+ hrs. And my church has also held a lot of health fairs that I’ve helped out with as well, so that could be clinical too?

-I’ve had multiple leadership positions in my undergrad institution. (Committee member, senate member, worship leader etc)

-I spent 3 yrs working as a childcare assistant at a school, because I love working with children (paid position tho).

-I was very active in some key orgs in my undergrad.

-I also just completed a CNA course and about to take the certification exam, so assuming if everything goes right, should rack up some more clinical experience (paid).

-I’ve only shadowed for 8 hrs with a breast oncologist. Was going to do more before COViD hit. Obviously am planning to do this on a regular consistent basis to keep build my motivation for becoming a physician.

I haven’t taken the MCAT because I realize that I really need to get a good score to help me out, so I’m taking my time with it to make sure I can maximize my chances of getting a higher score. I’ve built some great relationships with some of my professors over the years in undergrad that will gladly help me with LORs. So what do you think? Sorry for the long response. I know you’re trying to help and I really do appreciate it a lot. Thanks!
No, I'm not saying you should throw in the towel on becoming a doctor at all. What I'm trying to say is that you need to do GPA transcript repair. You will need to do the following in this order: Diy post-bac mostly consisting of upper lvl sciences +30 credit hrs, take the MCAT when you're absolutely ready, apply to a 1 yr SMP with strong linkage to the host medical school and crush it and then apply to medical schools.
Forget about a time line. It took you 4 yrs to earn that low undergrad GPA. It's going to require at least. 2 or more years of continued academic excellence to allay any doubts that you can handle medical school. This is a marathon now not a sprint.

What would 30 credit hrs of As do for your GPAs?
 
No, I'm not saying you should throw in the towel on becoming a doctor at all. What I'm trying to say is that you need to do GPA transcript repair. You will need to do the following in this order: Diy post-bac mostly consisting of upper lvl sciences +30 credit hrs, take the MCAT when you're absolutely ready, apply to a 1 yr SMP with strong linkage to the host medical school and crush it and then apply to medical schools.
Forget about a time line. It took you 4 yrs to earn that low undergrad GPA. It's going to require at least. 2 or more years of continued academic excellence to allay any doubts that you can handle medical school. This is a marathon now not a sprint.

What would 30 credit hrs of As do for your GPAs?
Thank you that’s exactly what I needed to hear. I needed this. Those 30+ hours of As won’t really raise my GPA tho, but I understand that showing an upward trend is important. Also on my ECs should I do more?
 
Thank you that’s exactly what I needed to hear. I needed this. Those 30+ hours of As won’t really raise my GPA tho, but I understand that showing an upward trend is important. Also on my ECs should I do more?
You're good on non-clinical/clinical volunteering. Get your shadowing up to 50 hrs. Your CNA license will come in handy with racking up even more clinical experience/shadowing. I'd focus more on establishing an upward trend by doing a diy post-bac (15 credit hrs fall/spring) even if it doesn't raise it much. Get a solid MCAT and do a 1 yr SMP with strong linkage.
 
You're good on non-clinical/clinical volunteering. Get your shadowing up to 50 hrs. Your CNA license will come in handy with racking up even more clinical experience/shadowing. I'd focus more on establishing an upward trend by doing a diy post-bac (15 credit hrs fall/spring) even if it doesn't raise it much. Get a solid MCAT and do a 1 yr SMP with strong linkage.
Thank you. This is very helpful. You’re amazing!
 
Can someone with 3.4GPA and 510-513 MCAT get into low tier MD schools? What about DO schools?
 
@Goro, Forgive me for a generic question, but when should an applicant use one of those optional "tell us about any problems with academic record, academic mis-steps" essays? Should it be used only to explain a catastrophic semester, or to talk about low overall GPA with upward trend?
 
@Goro, Forgive me for a generic question, but when should an applicant use one of those optional "tell us about any problems with academic record, academic mis-steps" essays? Should it be used only to explain a catastrophic semester, or to talk about low overall GPA with upward trend?
I think it's useful for people who get overwhelmed by life but still try to bulldoze their way through, and then finally recover. So both of your scenarios would suffice.

So for example, someone who was in a car accident in their SO year, and had a classic U-shaped GPA trend, would have a good explanation for the uncharacteristic trough.

Someone with a /-shaped trend might explain that if they had to work the first few years of college.
 
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