Goro's guide to the DO school app process

[Goro]

OK, it's app season, and I've already addressed things that will be common concerns to any applicant (MD or DO). See this thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...arted-goros-guide-to-the-app-process.1075272/

But here I'd like to touch on things for you DO candidates specifically.

• Do your homework. We expect you to know about osteopathy, and please, do better than quoting wikipedia at us. And if any of you say "they look at the whole person" one more time, I'm going to reach across the table and smack you upside the head!
• 
  
• To that end, find a DO to shadow! This is especially imperative if you live within driving distance of a DO school, or live in areas of the country which are relatively DO-rich, like the mid-west or the east coast.

• If you've ever been on the receiving end of OMM/OMT, make sure you let us know about it in your app.

• DO does not always = MD in terms of how doctors approach a clinical problem. So be sure to shadow both MDs and DOs, if at all possible. You should be able to articulate how they're similar, and how they differ.

• While there are DO schools that require a DO LOR, lacking one will not kill you at those schools (like mine) that don't require one. We know that there are some areas where there are fewer DOs, and a gazillion pre-meds are pestering them for LORs, so it's hard to get them. BUT, having a DO LOR always helps! Shows you've gone the extra mile.

• If you look at the numbers , DO schools have stats for matriculants that are on par with those of third-tier MD schools, like, say, Rush, U AR or U KS. So like MD schools, DO schools will expect you to have a minimum standard, but they're more willing to accept a high GPA + low MCAT or a high MCAT + low GPA applicant. By "low", I mean a floor of 3.0-3.1 for GPA, and MCAT of 23-25.

• To that end, if your MCAT score is <23, I strongly suggest a retake. If your GPA is <3.0, I suggest retaking all F/D/C coursework and/or get the GPA >3.0.

• If you're hesitant to apply because of fears that you won't get that coveted ultra-competetive residency, chill. First, consider that having a DO degree doesn't mean you can only be a FP or ER doc. My grads have gotten into anesthesiology, radiology, ophthalmology, neurology, orthopedics, pathology and other competitive specialties. I've met DO nephrologist, cardiologists and rheumatologists (the Dean of Touro-NV is one of the latter). The vast majority of my students don't go into specialties not because they can't, but because they come to my school self-selecting for primary care. End result, having an MD degree doesn't mean one can blithely waltz into a Peds Neurology residency.

• I believe it will be easier for DO grads to specialize with the AOA/ACGME merger. If anything, I think the DOs are getting more out of this than the MDs. The only losers will be the IMGs.

• Most MD schools are in urban areas. Not so for a number of DO schools. So think carefully about where a school is. I don't believe that the areas around Pikesville or LUCOM will be happy places for gay or minority students.

• If you'd rather be at an MD school, and you're applying to both, consider NOW whether you'd rather be at a DO school, or an MD one. We've certainly had people turn us down for the nearby MD school, and vice-versa.

• When you go on interviews, the most important question you can ask is of the students who attend there: "why did you choose this school?"

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[Awesome Sauceome]

sticky this bad boy, someone please

 

[Quizlet04]

• If you've ever been on the receiving end of OMM/OMT, make sure you let us know about it in your app.

• DO does not always = MD in terms of how doctors approach a clinical problem. So be sure to shadow both MDs and DOs, if at all possible. You should be able to articulate how they're similar, and how they differ.

Should these both appear in the PS or somewhere else on the app?

 

[Goro]

It can be either, or both. Most schools will ask "why DO"? on the secondary, so it's sometimes more appropriate there.

Should these both appear in the PS or somewhere else on the app?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

@Goro

Thank you for being such big help on this site. You have posted on many of my threads and have really made this confusing process much easier for me. I think I speak for the entire SDN community when I say thank you!

 

[Doghead]

• DO does not always = MD in terms of how doctors approach a clinical problem. So be sure to shadow both MDs and DOs, if at all possible. You should be able to articulate how they're similar, and how they differ.

• When you go on interviews, the most important question you can ask is of the students who attend there: "why did you choose this school?"

I have always found these two difficult to answer. For the first, my general observation is that DOs rely more on factoring in a patient's personal life into the diagnoses, coupled with talking more to the patient on their level to establish trust and, therefore, reciprocal honesty and cooperation from the patient. But I feel as though this may be a cliche answer, or perhaps even undermining to MDs to imply that they cannot do the same.

For the second, how exactly do I approach this question? I will certainly read about each school's mission and culture, but I expect that every other applicant is doing the same.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Great post. Question: why do you believe it will be easier to get a residency after this merger? Since Mds can now do DO residencies wouldn't that make it more difficult? Will there be less of a do bias at md residencies ? Why will this hurt imgs?
When do you think this will go in affect?


Side note: while it's true a lot of do schools are in rural areas a lot aren't also. There are dos school in Philly/ny(2)/ fort Lauderdale/Tampa bay/la/ San Fran/ Chicago which are all gay/minority friendly!

 

[Goro]

There are more DO grads than there are residency slot for them...the merger opens up more MD slots by making them more available. yes, DO slots are open for more MDs, but overall, there are more slots than grads in total. The merger will also make COMLEX more acceptable to MD residency directors.

Lastly, both COCA and LCME (the accrediting bodies) were getting annoyed that IMGs [particularly from the cash-flush Carib schools, which behave in a rather predatory manner] who were not qualified to get into either MD or DO schools were able to get into residency slots, many available by simply buying their way in. I believe people were starting to make noise about this in NY state even before talk of the merger. So I saw, given the grumblings, a push-back coming against the IMGs. The merger will speed this process up.

Great post. Question: why do you believe it will be easier to get a residency after this merger? Since Mds can now do DO residencies wouldn't that make it more difficult? Will there be less of a do bias at md residencies ? Why will this hurt imgs?
When do you think this will go in affect?

True, but my comments were specifically for people thinking about schools in rural areas. You gotta go with eyes wide open!

Side note: while it's true a lot of do schools are in rural areas a lot aren't also. There are dos school in Philly/ny(2)/ fort Lauderdale/Tampa bay/la/ San Fran/ Chicago which are all gay/minority friendly!

 

[IslandStyle808]

Great post. Question: why do you believe it will be easier to get a residency after this merger? Since Mds can now do DO residencies wouldn't that make it more difficult? Will there be less of a do bias at md residencies ? Why will this hurt imgs?
When do you think this will go in affect?


Side note: while it's true a lot of do schools are in rural areas a lot aren't also. There are dos school in Philly/ny(2)/ fort Lauderdale/Tampa bay/la/ San Fran/ Chicago which are all gay/minority friendly!

Excellent post Goro.

I also had the same questions as doctor synthesis.

I could see why DOs benefit more from the merger in the sense that now that DOs doing AOA fellowships can now apply to either ACGME and AOA residencies. I can also see that having the AOA residencies being accredited under the ACGME will help DOs during the job hunt. However, as doctor synthesis has mentioned, I can't see it from the standpoint of the student. From this standpoint, the MD students will benefit, considering that they have more residency options to apply to. However, DO always had the ability to apply to these residencies, so I can't see how the merger will dramatically help them.

As for the IMGs, I can't see this hurting them in the short run but only in the long run. With this merger, it gives IMGs more options in terms of residencies and so I could see an slight increase in terms of matching, during the time the merger has begun. However, I could see this hurting them in the long run because of the increasing class sizes and schools coming up in the U.S.

 

[IslandStyle808]

There are more DO grads than there are residency slot for them...the merger opens up more MD slots by making them more available. yes, DO slots are open for more MDs, but overall, there are more slots than grads in total. The merger will also make COMLEX more acceptable to MD residency directors.

Lastly, both COCA and LCME (the accrediting bodies) were getting annoyed that IMGs [particularly from the cash-flush Carib schools, which behave in a rather predatory manner] who were not qualified to get into either MD or DO schools were able to get into residency slots, many available by simply buying their way in. I believe people were starting to make noise about this in NY state even before talk of the merger. So I saw, given the grumblings, a push-back coming against the IMGs. The merger will speed this process up.

Great post. Question: why do you believe it will be easier to get a residency after this merger? Since Mds can now do DO residencies wouldn't that make it more difficult? Will there be less of a do bias at md residencies ? Why will this hurt imgs?
When do you think this will go in affect?

True, but my comments were specifically for people thinking about schools in rural areas. You gotta go with eyes wide open!

Side note: while it's true a lot of do schools are in rural areas a lot aren't also. There are dos school in Philly/ny(2)/ fort Lauderdale/Tampa bay/la/ San Fran/ Chicago which are all gay/minority friendly!

It is definitely a good thing that DOs will have one less test to worry about. Also, do you think New York state will make policies only taking US trained students into residencies considering what you have mentioned?

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

There are more DO grads than there are residency slot for them...the merger opens up more MD slots by making them more available. yes, DO slots are open for more MDs, but overall, there are more slots than grads in total. The merger will also make COMLEX more acceptable to MD residency directors.

Lastly, both COCA and LCME (the accrediting bodies) were getting annoyed that IMGs [particularly from the cash-flush Carib schools, which behave in a rather predatory manner] who were not qualified to get into either MD or DO schools were able to get into residency slots, many available by simply buying their way in. I believe people were starting to make noise about this in NY state even before talk of the merger. So I saw, given the grumblings, a push-back coming against the IMGs. The merger will speed this process up.

Great post. Question: why do you believe it will be easier to get a residency after this merger? Since Mds can now do DO residencies wouldn't that make it more difficult? Will there be less of a do bias at md residencies ? Why will this hurt imgs?
When do you think this will go in affect?

True, but my comments were specifically for people thinking about schools in rural areas. You gotta go with eyes wide open!

Side note: while it's true a lot of do schools are in rural areas a lot aren't also. There are dos school in Philly/ny(2)/ fort Lauderdale/Tampa bay/la/ San Fran/ Chicago which are all gay/minority friendly!

Thanks goro Great perspective!

 

[happypremed1]

• Most MD schools are in urban areas. Not so for a number of DO schools. So think carefully about where a school is. I don't believe that the areas around Pikesville or LUCOM will happy places for gay or minority students.

What about the area around KCOM and LMU? Anyone cares to comment?

 

[Goro]

Don't know. But it would not surprise me.

It is definitely a good thing that DOs will have one less test to worry about. Also, do you think New York state will make policies only taking US trained students into residencies considering what you have mentioned?

Well, not all residency directors accepted COMLEX, so DO students had to take USMLE, which is a totally different animal than COMLEX. nationwide, DO student underperform on USMLE I, but the good one manage to catch up on Step II. Second, there are some residency directors, especially more in the higher competitive residencies, that simply refuse to take DO grads, period. The merger will eliminate that prejudice.

However, DO always had the ability to apply to these residencies, so I can't see how the merger will dramatically help them.

Domestic students, whether MD or DO, will get first crack now, even in those slots that were for MD only.

As for the IMGs, I can't see this hurting them in the short run but only in the long run. With this merger, it gives IMGs more options in terms of residencies and so I could see an slight increase in terms of matching, during the time the merger has begun. However, I could see this hurting them in the long run because of the increasing class sizes and schools coming up in the U.S.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

the higher competitive residencies, that simply refuse to take DO grads, period. The merger will eliminate that prejudice.

Can you explain how the merger will eliminate DO prejudice?

Some people express that biased PD's will stay biased.

 

[Goro]

They can't simply say "No DOs" anymore.

Can you explain how the merger will eliminate DO prejudice?

Some people express that biased PD's will stay biased.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Unfortunately, I've shadowed several DOs in California and they all said the same thing, "DO or MD... no difference. Take what you get and run with it. You'll be a doctor in the end." I drilled them to why they chose an osteopathic school and none of the answers had anything to do with osteopathic medicine (ex. I chose PCOM b/c my bf was in the area and I didn't get into other schools in the area OR it was the only school that accepted me). Of course, none of these physicians practice OMM/OMT (I couldn't find any in CA). I plan to apply to my state schools in NY, University of North Dakota (family members went there) and several osteopathic schools (there is one in particular I'm in love with).

I feel like I have great reasons for choosing the DO schools I want to apply to (the setting, the patient population, the teaching approach). I'm less certain to what is considered a good answer to "why DO," especially when all DOs I've shadowed said there isn't much unique about osteopathic medicine. I studied all the history (going back from to the 19th century with A.T. Still the rural farmer that was in the army and then worked as a physician who lost three of his children and decided to focus on anatomy and finding out how one can help the body help itself), but other then an emphasis on anatomy, working with the body to help it cure itself, OMM / OMT, a rich tradition (many of which are likely applicable to MD, minus the OMM / OMT) I've had a hard time figuring out what answer admissions folks are looking for (are they making sure we understand what we are in for or are they looking for some unique answer to the question).

• DO does not always = MD in terms of how doctors approach a clinical problem. So be sure to shadow both MDs and DOs, if at all possible. You should be able to articulate how they're similar, and how they differ.

• When you go on interviews, the most important question you can ask is of the students who attend there: "why did you choose this school?"

I have always found these two difficult to answer. For the first, my general observation is that DOs rely more on factoring in a patient's personal life into the diagnoses, coupled with talking more to the patient on their level to establish trust and, therefore, reciprocal honesty and cooperation from the patient. But I feel as though this may be a cliche answer, or perhaps even undermining to MDs to imply that they cannot do the same.

For the second, how exactly do I approach this question? I will certainly read about each school's mission and culture, but I expect that every other applicant is doing the same.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

They can't simply say "No DOs" anymore.

true, especially when NYU IM blatantly said on their website "no DOs."

but don't u feel its still futile because they can work around their reasons to reject?

 

[EarthToDoc]

Unfortunately, I've shadowed several DOs in California and they all said the same thing, "DO or MD... no difference. Take what you get and run with it. You'll be a doctor in the end." I drilled them to why they chose an osteopathic school and none of the answers had anything to do with osteopathic medicine (ex. I chose PCOM b/c my bf was in the area and I didn't get into other schools in the area OR it was the only school that accepted me). Of course, none of these physicians practice OMM/OMT (I couldn't find any in CA, bu and they are all grads of the same DO school. I plan to apply to my state schools in NY, University of North Dakota (family members went there) and several osteopathic schools (there is one in particular I'm in love with).

I feel like I have great reasons for choosing the DO schools I want to apply to (the setting, the patient population, the teaching approach). I'm less certain to what is considered a good answer to "why DO," especially when all DOs I've shadowed said there isn't much unique about osteopathic medicine. I studied all the history (going back from to the 19th century with A.T. Still the rural farmer that was in the army and then worked as a physician who lost three of his children and decided to focus on anatomy and finding out how one can help the body help itself).

I have come to this same conclusion. The DO I shadowed in the ER, told me plainly there is no difference and that he doesn't use OMT. He gave me the usual bs that osteopathic medicine is about holistic care... I am tired of hearing this and Goro is too. I am not sure what I am going to say when asked about osteopathic medicine?

Would it be a bad idea to be honest and tell the interviewers that I just want to be a doctor and was more competitive for DO then MD. This is the honest truth, why should I lie?

 

[Judson]

sticky this bad boy, someone please

This.

 

[Goro]

There is such a thing as being too honest. And there is lying, and then there's "spin". I'll bet you can spin something. Dig a little deeper and I'll bet you'll find something to say that is both honest and strokes your fancy.

Would it be a bad idea to be honest and tell the interviewers that I just want to be a doctor and was more competitive for DO then MD. This is the honest truth, why should I lie?[/QUOTE]

Time will tell

true, especially when NYU IM blatantly said on their website "no DOs."
but don't u feel its still futile because they can work around their reasons to reject?

 

[kalat]

• To that end, find a DO to shadow! This is especially imperative if you live within driving distance of a DO school, or live in areas of the country which are relatively DO-rich, like the mid-west or the east coast.

I live on the east coast with a DO school within about 30 minutes of me. I contacted them regarding information for potential students and shadowing opportunities (pointing out many of the physicians on the "Find a DO" on the AOA website in my area are faculty) and they just told me they don't facilitate shadowing due to legal issues. The cold calling continues... I got a receptionist the other day that didn't understand what shadowing was; she thought I was trying to get treatment.

[EDIT] Another question @Goro - My school choices are in a general area due to my personal interests but also a long term relationship in which we are both moving to the same area (many years now); if it comes up that I'm moving relatively far is it appropriate to bring that up? It's obviously not the entire reason as relationships can dissipate at any time, but it is still one motivating factor. How "personal" do they really want you to get?

 

[GypsyHummus]

I live on the east coast with a DO school within about 30 minutes of me. I contacted them regarding information for potential students and shadowing opportunities (pointing out many of the physicians on the "Find a DO" on the AOA website in my area are faculty) and they just told me they don't facilitate shadowing due to legal issues. The cold calling continues... I got a receptionist the other day that didn't understand what shadowing was; she thought I was trying to get treatment.

Same here. No DO wants students to shadow

 

[touchpause13]

I have nothing important to add besides thanks for contributing Goro!

 

[TopTomato]

I live on the east coast with a DO school within about 30 minutes of me. I contacted them regarding information for potential students and shadowing opportunities (pointing out many of the physicians on the "Find a DO" on the AOA website in my area are faculty) and they just told me they don't facilitate shadowing due to legal issues. The cold calling continues... I got a receptionist the other day that didn't understand what shadowing was; she thought I was trying to get treatment.

[EDIT] Another question @Goro - My school choices are in a general area due to my personal interests but also a long term relationship in which we are both moving to the same area (many years now); if it comes up that I'm moving relatively far is it appropriate to bring that up? It's obviously not the entire reason as relationships can dissipate at any time, but it is still one motivating factor. How "personal" do they really want you to get?

I would look into trying to get a job at a hospital, either being a tech or ER scribe. My hospital is filled with DOs at every specialty. In fact 3 out of 4 ENT docs that my hospital uses are DO. If you can land a job in the ER you'll find more than enough opportunities to watch DOs work.

 

[rzoo14]

for those interested in shadowing. i found this website very helpful in finding DOs. http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/pages/find-a-do-search.aspx. you get a list that includes the specialty of the physician, the school they attended and the grad year.
it was still cold calling those on the list but i found more luck with this list vs. finding other physicians randomly through google.

 

[Doctor Bob]

DO does not always = MD in terms of how doctors approach a clinical problem. So be sure to shadow both MDs and DOs, if at all possible. You should be able to articulate how they're similar, and how they differ.

This is one of those questions that I struggled with as an applicant. And even now as an attending I'm not sure I could satisfactorily answer this question.

 

[235009]

Almost everything @Goro has written about the merger is conjecture, wishful thinking or marketing/spin. There is nothing in the merger agreement from what I've seen that says current ACGME programs can't keep outright rejecting DOs. Nothing that says they have to accept the COMLEX. Nowhere does it say that programs must give a preference to US grads. I feel like some DO school officials are trying to use this merger as another marketing tool to use on naive premeds just like "treating the whole patient" and the holistic approach

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Almost everything @Goro has written about the merger is conjecture, wishful thinking or marketing/spin. There is nothing in the merger agreement from what I've seen that says current ACGME programs can't keep outright rejecting DOs. Nothing that says they have to accept the COMLEX. Nowhere does it say that programs must give a preference to US grads. I feel like some DO school officials are trying to use this merger as another marketing tool to use on naive premeds just like "treating the whole patient" and the holistic approach

meatornado

GTFO

No one wants your crap around. Go back into your troll cave where you came from. Out of nowhere you were awakened and started spamming hard.





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[NobleGas14]

meatornado

GTFO

No one wants your crap around. Go back into your troll cave where you came from. Out of nowhere you were awakened and started spamming hard.





Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk

*Applause*

 

[jjk32]

@Goro

Just to add, for those that have a hard time finding a DO to shadow, or one that is enthusiastic about taking on a Pre-Med student to establish a shadowing relationship I highly recommend the Osteopathic Mentor Program:

http://cf.osteopathic.org/iLearn/home.cfm

It seems like very few people know about this, and I was able to find a number of very passionate DOs to shadow after mixed results of trying to establish shadowing relationships on my own.

 

[docemmettbrown]

I am curious would one of these mentors who mentor via email would write a LOR because none in my area seem to do shadowing from the website.

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[EarthToDoc]

How I managed to find a DO to shadow? I went to the websites of my local hospitals and searched for DOs. After cold calling once a week for 3 months repeatedly to the same departments/administration and being told lies (Oh I will let the doctor know and call u back..I hate hearing this), I was fed up. When I went to the hospital to volunteer (ER)I searched for the DO and literally just asked him, "Could I shadow you?" and explained how important it was to my application as a lot of schools require that I shadow a DO. He was delighted and it turned out to be one of the best experiences I have had in my life. Oh yea, I didn't even have to ask for this, he said that he will be writing me an awesome recommendation. They are great individuals and speaking to someone in person is completely different then calling on the phone.

I suggested this to one of my pre-med friends and during their usual weekly volunteering they managed to find the courage to face the doctor and just simply ask. He will start shadowing next week. It took me 3 months to get to this point, took him 5 minutes (of course with my nagging).

So get off the phone, go out, seek a DO, and just simply ask.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

How I managed to find a DO to shadow? I went to the websites of my local hospitals and searched for DOs. After cold calling once a week for 3 months repeatedly to the same departments/administration and being told lies (Oh I will let the doctor know and call u back..I hate hearing this), I was fed up. When I went to the hospital to volunteer (ER)I searched for the DO and literally just asked him, "Could I shadow you?" and explained how important it was to my application as a lot of schools require that I shadow a DO. He was delighted and it turned out to be one of the best experiences I have had in my life. Oh yea, I didn't even have to ask for this, he said that he will be writing me an awesome recommendation. They are great individuals and speaking to someone in person is completely different then calling on the phone.

I suggested this to one of my pre-med friends and during their usual weekly volunteering they managed to find the courage to face the doctor and just simply ask. He will start shadowing next week. It took me 3 months to get to this point, took him 5 minutes (of course with my nagging).

So get off the phone, go out, seek a DO, and just simply ask.

Good advice. I remember my friend and me called over 60 DOs in our area and only found two doctors willing to talk to us. Only one allowed shadowing and the other offered to meet for coffee. Schools know this, which is why you get a positive impact on your application when you have a letter.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Good advice. I remember my friend and me called over 60 DOs in our area and only found two doctors willing to talk to us. Only one allowed shadowing and the other offered to meet for coffee. Schools know this, which is why you get a positive impact on your application when you have a letter.

Pretty much, finding a DO is hard for many people and as such it probably does bring your application some support.

I had to go through a solid 30 before I found two that let me shadow them.

 

[Xenoblade]

@Goro

• When you go on interviews, the most important question you can ask is of the students who attend there: "why did you choose this school?"

goro, I asked a lot of do students this question, and they all kind of shrugged their shoulders. What do you think that says about that school and/or its students (besides being apathetic).

 

[Goro]

Says something about the students, rather than the school.

goro, I asked a lot of do students this question, and they all kind of shrugged their shoulders. What do you think that says about that school and/or its students (besides being apathetic).[/QUOTE]

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

@Goro

• When you go on interviews, the most important question you can ask is of the students who attend there: "why did you choose this school?"

goro, I asked a lot of do students this question, and they all kind of shrugged their shoulders. What do you think that says about that school and/or its students (besides being apathetic).

That seems crazy to me... Like why apply to the school then?
I feel like I have a legitimate answer for every single one of my 10 schools. Sure some are more compelling than others, but my school list is heavily catered to my wants... maybe I am doing better than I thought haha

 

[Dr. Zombie]

That seems crazy to me... Like why apply to the school then?
I feel like I have a legitimate answer for every single one of my 10 schools. Sure some are more compelling than others, but my school list is heavily catered to my wants... maybe I am doing better than I thought haha

Not everyone gets accepted to their dream school so they just take the ride with whatever opportunity they are given.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Not everyone gets accepted to their dream school so they just take the ride with whatever opportunity they are given.

Only like 3-4 of my 10 schools are dream schools... but I know it is going to come up in either an interview or on secondaries... So I know other reasons (besides it just being my dream school) why that school would be a good fit. I dont know, just seems kind of crazy to me to not be more prepared, but maybe I dont know what I am talking about.

 

[Xenoblade]

Not everyone gets accepted to their dream school so they just take the ride with whatever opportunity they are given.

Yeah, I get that. I even got rejected from reach schools too that I had connections with. It happens. I got accepted to a decent substitute though that has amazing ortho connections. I lucked out.

I will say that one school where the students may have been apathetic because of constantly having 2-3 tests a week. That is just too much. I could see it wearing students down to the bone

 

[WalSlave]

I live on the east coast with a DO school within about 30 minutes of me. I contacted them regarding information for potential students and shadowing opportunities (pointing out many of the physicians on the "Find a DO" on the AOA website in my area are faculty) and they just told me they don't facilitate shadowing due to legal issues. The cold calling continues... I got a receptionist the other day that didn't understand what shadowing was; she thought I was trying to get treatment.

I called a TON of DOs and MDs for a month straight and got the same kind of answers, and I even live in the Midwest. I did a 180 and decided to approach the shadowing as more of a networking thing, meaning I started asking around and finding physicians through mutual friends, rather than just cold-calling. This has proved to be the best method, honestly. I actually ended up finding my best shadowing opportunities through an older student that I tutored in Biochemistry. She, unbeknownst to me, is extremely well-connected around town, so when I mentioned being desperate for some shadowing, she straight up texted her two doctor friends and they both said "sure", just like that!

Moral of the story: if cold-calling isn't working, start asking around. You are bound to run into someone who is good friends with a physician or two.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I called a TON of DOs and MDs for a month straight and got the same kind of answers, and I even live in the Midwest. I did a 180 and decided to approach the shadowing as more of a networking thing, meaning I started asking around and finding physicians through mutual friends, rather than just cold-calling. This has proved to be the best method, honestly. I actually ended up finding my best shadowing opportunities through an older student that I tutored in Biochemistry. She, unbeknownst to me, is extremely well-connected around town, so when I mentioned being desperate for some shadowing, she straight up texted her two doctor friends and they both said "sure", just like that!

Moral of the story: if cold-calling isn't working, start asking around. You are bound to run into someone who is good friends with a physician or two.

Yep that kind of stuff is really helpful

 

[gjthomp]

Some ideas for the "why DO?" question:

1. You learn everything MDs do and then some--can never be bad thing no matter what specialty. My friend's dad is a DO anesthesiologist at a largely MD hospital in Dallas and when she was shadowing her dad he had to help an MD doctor get an IV in an obese patient. He was able to get it just right b/c of his DO training. That's pretty cool!

2. You learn how to treat certain conditions without expensive tests & treatment. Again, that can only be a plus even if it's just back pain (but there are other times that it's useful too). I tied this in to how I want to do medical missions and having that extra training will be useful.

Not sure if those were actually good answers or not but they were true for me and I got accepted!

 

[DrPibble]

@Goro Thank you for this incredibly informative thread!
Quick question- do you recommend we include any unique hobbies/activities in our AACOMAS application? Or should we save such answers for secondaries or interviews?
To be more specific, I'm debating on whether or not to include some of my more "unique" hobbies- horseback riding for 10+ years, certified SCUBA diver, shelter dog photography, and hosting free dog obedience lessons, to name a few.
Thank you in advance.

 

[Goro]

Save for secodnaries, unless there's a prompt in primary for "hobbies".

@Goro Thank you for this incredibly informative thread!
Quick question- do you recommend we include any unique hobbies/activities in our AACOMAS application? Or should we save such answers for secondaries or interviews?
To be more specific, I'm debating on whether or not to include some of my more "unique" hobbies- horseback riding for 10+ years, certified SCUBA diver, shelter dog photography, and hosting free dog obedience lessons, to name a few.
Thank you in advance.

 

[K1NG]

Thanks for the post Goro. I'm still looking for DO's to shadow but a lot of them are busy this summer. I have worked with DO's while I was a scribe in the ER though. Do you think that will be alright or should I continue my search? I've contacted at least 10 around my area by phone and have been turned down by all. Maybe I should change my approach.

 

[FrenchyM.D/D.O]

THANK YOU GORO!!!

In order to get the opportunity to shadow a Doctor of Osteopathic medicine, I used this method: 1) I am of Haitian descent so I looked for D.O's in towns that have big Haitian communities. 2) found one and stuck with that ONE. 3) I drove there everyday until he was able to speak with me. (A bit aggressive I know but one has to want it!!!) Told him that I am a Haitian student at a University in Boston studying "pre-med"and thanked him for serving the Haitian community and asked if I could get an idea of what it is like to be a doctor in an underserved area and he agreed. 4) FIRST IMPRESSIONS you guys!! I went there like I was going to meet with Obama. What was supposed to be just a day turned into about 2 months. 5) He offered to write me a letter. 6) KEPT HIM UPDATED on my journey ever since.

I did the same for the M.D that I shadowed BTW.

 

[DrPibble]

Save for secodnaries, unless there's a prompt in primary for "hobbies".

Okay, good to know. No, there is no prompt in the primary for "hobbies;" only work experience and the extracurricular/volunteer/community service sections. Thank you for your prompt response- it is much appreciated!

 

[yankees527]

@Goro
I know this has been debated over and over again, but I just want to be assured that osteopathic physicians have a good chance at getting EM residencies (not as many hoops to jump through as say an orthopedic residency) . I know the whole spiel that you can go into any residency and what not. Thanks!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

@Goro
I know this has been debated over and over again, but I just want to be assured that osteopathic physicians have a good chance at getting EM residencies (not as many hoops to jump through as say an orthopedic residency) . I know the whole spiel that you can go into any residency and what not. Thanks!

Channeling Goro... Connecting... Connecting.... Connected.

Goro: plenty of my students match EM and the field is open to DO students who work hard enough.