Got Accepted to DO and St. Georges University. What to do?

[Semicolon]

Lol is the OP even reading this thread anymore?

I agree with PunkmedGirl on this one.

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[PunkmedGirl]

Lol is the OP even reading this thread anymore?

I agree with PunkmedGirl on this one.

Probably not, the OP probably just wanted to start a debate and as you can see they have achieved it. Its just a theory.

 

[COMedic2Doc]

LOL, probably not reading this anymore. Perhaps we should consider closing this one?

Random Thoughts on this thread:
:troll: and

 

[ofoshoukno]

Your mantra for the Caribbean school you got into should be the same which the draft dodgers chanted in the 1970's regarding the Vietnam war.

HELL NO, WE WON'T GO!

 

[RySerr21]

was that really necessary? this thread was dead long ago. Thanks for the contribution.

 

[Phospholipid]

if your ultimate goal is to get into an allopathic residency, one of the main factors will be your USMLE scores
take a look at this link: http://www.usmle.org/Scores_Transcripts/performance/2007.html
the DO students who took USMLE step 1 and 2 have had a higher pass rate than foreign students
the reasons for this may vary, and I'm sure there are many foreign grads who outperformed students from US MD and DO schools
just wanted to throw some stats out there...

Those stats can't be compared to SGU. http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/news-events/news-archives08-Grenada1USMLE.html

SGU 14 yr pass rate is 84%, and I'm sure recently, its closer to 90%, well above Osteopathic schools. The reasons might vary.. they might be studying for COMLEX, or not taking the USMLE as seriously, but there is a difference in pass rates between SGU students and osteopathic students.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Those stats can't be compared to SGU. http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/news-events/news-archives08-Grenada1USMLE.html

SGU 14 yr pass rate is 84%, and I'm sure recently, its closer to 90%, well above Osteopathic schools. The reasons might vary.. they might be studying for COMLEX, or not taking the USMLE as seriously, but there is a difference in pass rates between SGU students and osteopathic students.

Yesterday a basically identical thread was closed because it turned into a huge flame war, infractions were given out, etc. I suggest to everyone right now to not comment on this thread if you know it will turn into a flame war, or to keep your comments 100% on topic, and simply report ... do not bicker with posters you find offensive.

 

[J1515]

SGU 14 yr pass rate is 84%, and I'm sure recently, its closer to 90%, well above Osteopathic schools. The reasons might vary.. they might be studying for COMLEX, or not taking the USMLE as seriously, but there is a difference in pass rates between SGU students and osteopathic students.

Carib students have stated in the past that SGU doesn't let everyone take step 1. Apparently you have to pass some kind of preliminary exam that the school gives to ensure that you will pass the USMLE. I think the first time pass rate for that preliminary exam would be a more accurate indication of the overall pass rate for the school.

 

[Dissected]

wow, this thread is gonna go down with a blaze of glory.

In before this gets slashed

 

[Phospholipid]

SGU students take the BSCE -basic science comprehensive exam at the end of first yr and at the end of 2nd yr. It is not meant to hold students back and have only 1-2 days to study for it during a busy schedule. It is just a gauge of where you are. It is by no means anywhere indicative of the USMLE pass rates, as it is taken during the middle of the semester. Most students don't even really study for it (how do you study 2 yrs of basic science in a day?), and it is rare that SGU would hold back students just because they do poorly on it.

 

[JaggerPlate]

SGU students take the BSCE -basic science comprehensive exam at the end of first yr and at the end of 2nd yr. It is not meant to hold students back and have only 1-2 days to study for it during a busy schedule. It is just a gauge of where you are. It is by no means anywhere indicative of the USMLE pass rates, as it is taken during the middle of the semester. Most students don't even really study for it (how do you study 2 yrs of basic science in a day?), and it is rare that SGU would hold back students just because they do poorly on it.

Does anyone have proof of the number of students who don't take Step I, or what this exam really means?? Facts/civility will keep this thread from being closed.

 

[Terpskins99]

Does anyone have proof of the number of students who don't take Step I, or what this exam really means?? Facts/civility will keep this thread from being closed.

Read his post carefully. Phospholipid was talking about taking the CBSE, not the actual Step 1.

One student at St. Georges told me that approximately 75% of those that started in first year eventually progressed to taking USMLE Step 1. The remaining 25% either dropped out or were dismissed from school. He mentioned that almost everyone who got through the first two years of medical school and took the CBSE was cleared for boards.

It'll be hard to gather actual proof of this beyond word of mouth, since no Caribbean program will openly reveal their actual attrition rate.

 

[bkpa2med]

Pick the best school -- end of story. Most DO schools are better than SGU but some are not. It all depends on the DO school that accepted you. Also, in the end the best decision will be where you believe you can live and be happiest. Depression doesn't really fare that well with med school.

 

[RySerr21]

Carib students have stated in the past that SGU doesn't let everyone take step 1. Apparently you have to pass some kind of preliminary exam that the school gives to ensure that you will pass the USMLE. I think the first time pass rate for that preliminary exam would be a more accurate indication of the overall pass rate for the school.

This is no different than at some osteopathic schools. It goes both ways. Ive heard similar things about AZCOM, and ive brought it up a few times on this forum. They make their students take some type of preliminary COMLEX, but they do not report the statistics for that test. They only report the statistics of the real deal, for the people who make it past that preliminary COMLEX-type test, which is an impressive 99% comlex step 1 pass rate or something like that. Like you, i agree that the first time pass rate for the preliminary exam is of more value to students who are trying to figure out if a school has succeeded in preparing their students for the boards.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Read his post carefully. Phospholipid was talking about taking the CBSE, not the actual Step 1.

One student at St. Georges told me that approximately 75% of those that started in first year eventually progressed to taking USMLE Step 1. The remaining 25% either dropped out or were dismissed from school. He mentioned that almost everyone who got through the first two years of medical school and took the CBSE was cleared for boards.

It'll be hard to gather actual proof of this beyond word of mouth, since no Caribbean program will openly reveal their actual attrition rate.

No I was replying to the comment that someone said which claimed that students take the CBSE to see if they should sit for the boards ... and if there was any sort of evidence that claimed x amount of students took the CBSE but only y amount from that group was allowed to sit for the USMLE.

I also don't think SGU has an attrition rate of 25% ... that seems very high.

 

[ShyRem]

There are schools of all types - carribbean (personal knowledge of a friend who went to AUC), DO, and US MD that test their students and if the results are not indicating a reasonable surety of passing USMLE step 1 then the student is "remediated" until their pre-test shows a good indication of passing the boards. Do all schools do this? No. But there are certainly those that do in all three of those areas. Data can be manipulated in a myriad of ways to ensure the best possible light on the reporting party. Also know if the school pays for a board review course or if the students are on their own for studying. Make sure you know what you're looking at when you look at numbers reported for board pass rates.

You know the old saying: There are three kinds of liars: Liars, damn liars, and statisticians.

 

[Terpskins99]

No I was replying to the comment that someone said which claimed that students take the CBSE to see if they should sit for the boards ... and if there was any sort of evidence that claimed x amount of students took the CBSE but only y amount from that group was allowed to sit for the USMLE.

I also don't think SGU has an attrition rate of 25% ... that seems very high.

I think 25% is about the norm for St. Georges and Ross. I don't know much about the other programs. The vast majority of those students leave during first year though.

I was told this from one of their students that interviewed with me for residency. Take it for what its worth. You can try asking in their forum though.

 

[Phospholipid]

I think 25% is about the norm for St. Georges and Ross. I don't know much about the other programs. The vast majority of those students leave during first year though.

I was told this from one of their students that interviewed with me for residency. Take it for what its worth. You can try asking in their forum though.

SGU and Ross cannot be compared. SGU entering stats about 3.4, MCAT 26-27. Ross, I'm sure is below 3.0 and probably below 20 MCAT. Attrition rate is around 50% for Ross (no joke), whereas SGU at most is maybe 8%. The way Ross is structured, if all their entering class passes through the 1st 2 yrs, they will be in trouble, there would not be enough clinical rotations for everybody. They are already have serious issues with clinicals right now. SGU is structured so that they hope everybody passes, and plans to have spots for everybody. The quality in schools between SGU and Ross is huge. In addition, SGU has a higher USMLE pass rate by far. Between DO or Ross, DO is a way better option (if you don't mind the DO degree). Between SGU and DO, that's not as clear, and is the reason why this thread has gone on for so long.

 

[PipiChen]

SGU and Ross cannot be compared. SGU entering stats about 3.4, MCAT 26-27. Ross, I'm sure is below 3.0 and probably below 20 MCAT. Attrition rate is around 50% for Ross (no joke), whereas SGU at most is maybe 8%. The way Ross is structured, if all their entering class passes through the 1st 2 yrs, they will be in trouble, there would not be enough clinical rotations for everybody. They are already have serious issues with clinicals right now. SGU is structured so that they hope everybody passes, and plans to have spots for everybody. The quality in schools between SGU and Ross is huge. In addition, SGU has a higher USMLE pass rate by far. Between DO or Ross, DO is a way better option (if you don't mind the DO degree). Between SGU and DO, that's not as clear, and is the reason why this thread has gone on for so long.

HOLY CXXP, I guess this US MD vs. US DO kind of arbitrary scale is just not enough, we actually have to venture into this Carib vs. US DO discussion?? Seriously, please stop quoting those stats... it does you no good, omg and why am I even responding !!

 

[JaggerPlate]

Between SGU and DO, that's not as clear, and is the reason why this thread has gone on for so long.

I only see it as unclear when Caribbean students post on this board. Almost everything else I see/hear says DO all the way. I'm not trying to flame, just stating popular opinion.

 

[Dissected]

I only see it as unclear when Caribbean students post on this board. Almost everything else I see/hear says DO all the way. I'm not trying to flame, just stating popular opinion.

 

[goosedander]

I only see it as unclear when Caribbean students post on this board. Almost everything else I see/hear says DO all the way. I'm not trying to flame, just stating popular opinion.

It's popular for Caribbean medical students to pretend they had the choice, and by doing so they hope to elevate the perception of Caribbean medical schools, while simultaneously talking themselves into believing that they do indeed have the same opportunities as a US grad, MD or DO (which is absurd).

Hence the contrived debate and the usual suspect posters dipping into the DO forum.

If you're one of the few that is making the USDO vs Carib decision, for God's sake, and for the sake of your career, do your research and don't rely on the advice of people with ulterior motives and agendas.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Just to be clear ... I'm seriously not trying to flame. The poster said that it's unclear whether to go SGU or DO and the only thing I said was the only people I have ever heard to claim it is unclear are the Caribbean students who post in these threads ... almost everything else I hear says go DO. I'm repeating what I've heard, period.

 

[Dissected]

Just to be clear ... I'm seriously not trying to flame. The poster said that it's unclear whether to go SGU or DO and the only thing I said was the only people I have ever heard to claim it is unclear are the Caribbean students who post in these threads ... almost everything else I hear says go DO. I'm repeating what I've heard, period.

Sorry I was kidding. I should have included one of these '' at the end.

 

[rkaz]

Just to be clear ... I'm seriously not trying to flame. The poster said that it's unclear whether to go SGU or DO and the only thing I said was the only people I have ever heard to claim it is unclear are the Caribbean students who post in these threads ... almost everything else I hear says go DO. I'm repeating what I've heard, period.

Yes, but realize that since this thread is in the pre-osteo forum, it will also be biased towards those favoring osteopathic over Caribbean programs. The bias goes both ways.

The only way to have less biased answers is to hear directly from residency directors if they have a preference between DO and FMG graduates (particularly SGU, since that was the school mentioned). I believe one program director's feedback was posted either on this thread or another DO vs. Carib thread. He suggested staying in the US for med school (though didn't specify if he were only referring to US allopathic programs, or both American MD and DO programs). But that is just one opinion, as perhaps Dr. Fraud's idea of having a thread in the 'general residency' section asking PDs what they think wouldn't be such a bad idea.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Yes, but realize that since this thread is in the pre-osteo forum, it will also be biased towards those favoring osteopathic over Caribbean programs. The bias goes both ways.

Without a doubt. But I still feel like there is less of a bias here than I have seen in other threads. There's no doubt more DOs are going to say, go DO ... but people here have given fair opinions.

The only way to have less biased answers is to hear directly from residency directors if they have a preference between DO and FMG graduates (particularly SGU, since that was the school mentioned). I believe one program director's feedback was posted either on this thread or another DO vs. Carib thread. He suggested staying in the US for med school (though didn't specify if he were only referring to US allopathic programs, or both American MD and DO programs). But that is just one opinion, as perhaps Dr. Fraud's idea of having a thread in the 'general residency' section asking PDs what they think wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I think that's a fine idea, but seems a bit excessive and I'm not sure what the volume of responses would be/if we would really learn anything. I think most people get these general trends from people's matching experiences, which seem to come straight from the PDs themselves ... I don't think people are making things up for the sake of arguments, and I don't know if it's necessary to create such a thread. If someone would like to, be my guest. I do think that the post shared by the PD was more clear than some people were making it out to be, and I feel like the thread would echo the same feelings ... but I would have no real issue with the thread.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Sorry I was kidding. I should have included one of these '' at the end.

 

[Semicolon]

I can't wait until they open a caribbean osteopathic school...

 

[Terpskins99]

It's popular for Caribbean medical students to pretend they had the choice, and by doing so they hope to elevate the perception of Caribbean medical schools, while simultaneously talking themselves into believing that they do indeed have the same opportunities as a US grad, MD or DO (which is absurd).

Hence the contrived debate and the usual suspect posters dipping into the DO forum.

If you're one of the few that is making the USDO vs Carib decision, for God's sake, and for the sake of your career, do your research and don't rely on the advice of people with ulterior motives and agendas.

Like everyone else, I'm going to say I have no agenda. Cuz I really don't. I think people can do fine in both DO or Caribb route. I've met plenty of folks that came out fine on the other side (also one korean girl from California that went the Guadalajara-route... you MUST be able to learn spanish within 1-2 years though!).

Btw, Ross' numbers aren't nearly that far off from St. Georges... from what I've heard, their admissions criteria, attrition rate and US residency match rate are virtually identical. They are the two oldest Caribbean programs out there and the only ones I personally would have been willing to attend.

 

[gtleeee]

The only way I'd go to SGU is if it was free.

If it were any place other than SGU I would say D.O. without hesitation. I am a D.O. of 23 years experience in the E.R. My current chief of the E.R. is an SGU grad and he is outstanding. Another SGU grad (E.R.) I encountered in my career was also one of the best I ever knew. Any other Caribbean school I I would say D.O. without qualification. I have a feeling that the education there must be damned good.

 

[Phospholipid]

It's popular for Caribbean medical students to pretend they had the choice, and by doing so they hope to elevate the perception of Caribbean medical schools, while simultaneously talking themselves into believing that they do indeed have the same opportunities as a US grad, MD or DO (which is absurd).

Hence the contrived debate and the usual suspect posters dipping into the DO forum.

If you're one of the few that is making the USDO vs Carib decision, for God's sake, and for the sake of your career, do your research and don't rely on the advice of people with ulterior motives and agendas.

Don't flatter yourself just because you are a DO student. Most students at SGU either did not apply to a DO school, or got into one and chose SGU. Yes there are few that didnt get into DO schools and chose SGU not wanting to wait a year, but to those, they probably didnt apply to enough DO schools. There are multiple threads that i have read that say.. i didnt get into SGU, but got into SABA or AUC or vice versa, but got into a few DO schools, which should i choose? This choice is not as clear cut as many here put it out to be. Getting acceptance to a DO school does not guarantee acceptance into SGU, or vice versa.

 

[spicedmanna]

Please, I implore you, stop this nonsense. Take the path that you align best with, Caribbean, DO, US MD, or whatever, and then do the best work that you can.

 

[Dissected]

If it were any place other than SGU I would say D.O. without hesitation. I am a D.O. of 23 years experience in the E.R. My current chief of the E.R. is an SGU grad and he is outstanding. Another SGU grad (E.R.) I encountered in my career was also one of the best I ever knew. Any other Caribbean school I I would say D.O. without qualification. I have a feeling that the education there must be damned good.

Hey thanks for posting. This helps put things in the big picture.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Hey thanks for posting. This helps put things in the big picture.

definitely. I love it when attendings post!!

 

[DrFraud]

Yes, but realize that since this thread is in the pre-osteo forum, it will also be biased towards those favoring osteopathic over Caribbean programs. The bias goes both ways.

The only way to have less biased answers is to hear directly from residency directors if they have a preference between DO and FMG graduates (particularly SGU, since that was the school mentioned). I believe one program director's feedback was posted either on this thread or another DO vs. Carib thread. He suggested staying in the US for med school (though didn't specify if he were only referring to US allopathic programs, or both American MD and DO programs). But that is just one opinion, as perhaps Dr. Fraud's idea of having a thread in the 'general residency' section asking PDs what they think wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I am glad you found my opinion useful. I posted this opinion on the following thread.....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=599872

And as an aside, this thread was locked by ShyRem, who declared that any attempts to open up threads that have similar themes by users would result in infractions, and she then proceeded to discuss the very same topic here the next day. I also received an infraction by her as she found my contributions on this thread to be a form of trolling, which I am currently appealing. I think regardless of a position, it's good to be able to discuss them, and I would rather hear different opinions rather than try to silence them.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I am glad you found my opinion useful. I posted this opinion on the following thread.....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=599872

And as an aside, this thread was locked by ShyRem, who declared that any attempts to open up threads that have similar themes by users would result in infractions, and she then proceeded to discuss the very same topic here the next day. I also received an infraction by her as she found my contributions on this thread to be a form of trolling, which I am currently appealing. I think regardless of a position, it's good to be able to discuss them, and I would rather hear different opinions rather than try to silence them.

Trolling can be accomplished in various different forms. One form is creating an account to continually argue one topic over and over again. I believe most people see you as a troll because your entire post history has simply been arguments against DO schools, unfairly and incorrectly classifying DOs, and promoting Caribbean schools. I also find it ironic that I've never seen you share you opinions with Osteopathic medical students in the med student board or the residency boards, only pre-med boards, though you are a medical student. If I had any advice to give you, I'd say that continually proclaiming how happy you are with your decision to become an IMG and bashing DOs in the process is no way to convince the masses, or get your message across. I personally encourage everyone to listen to mod advice and report any posts you find rude, offensive, trolling, or spamming, and not add fuel to flame wars.

 

[DrFraud]

Trolling can be accomplished in various different forms. One form is creating an account to continually argue one topic over and over again. I believe most people see you as a troll because your entire post history has simply been arguments against DO schools, unfairly and incorrectly classifying DOs, and promoting Caribbean schools. I also find it ironic that I've never seen you share you opinions with Osteopathic medical students in the med student board or the residency boards, only pre-med boards, though you are a medical student. If I had any advice to give you, I'd say that continually proclaiming how happy you are with your decision to become an IMG and bashing DOs in the process is no way to convince the masses, or get your message across. I personally encourage everyone to listen to mod advice and report any posts you find rude, offensive, trolling, or spamming, and not add fuel to flame wars.

Respect and acceptance is very much a two way street. For a soon to be professional who wishes to be treated respectfully and be accepted, you and a number of posters here are quick to spread mis-information and malformed opinions about the path that many physicians choose. Whether this thread is in the DO forum, the Carib forum, or for that matter any other place in SND, before proclaiming that somehow you and your future colleagues are victims of an argumentative troll, perhaps you should review what you are writing and how you are writing it.

After reading through this thread and the other threads that are foreign program bashing by DO students and future DO students on this forum, I find it hard to have a lot of sympathy when you ask that others be held to a higher standard then you and your fellow DO colleagues that bash FMGs and IMGs. Bashing is not the pathway to respectability that you seek.

 

[JaggerPlate]

respect and acceptance is very much a two way street. For a soon to be professional who wishes to be treated respectfully and be accepted, you and a number of posters here are quick to spread mis-information and malformed opinions about the path that many physicians choose. Whether this thread is in the do forum, the carib forum, or for that matter any other place in snd, before proclaiming that somehow you and your future colleagues are victims of an argumentative troll, perhaps you should review what you are writing and how you are writing it.

After reading through this thread and the other threads that are foreign program bashing by do students and future do students on this forum, i find it hard to have a lot of sympathy when you ask that others be held to a higher standard then you and your fellow do colleagues that bash fmgs and imgs. Bashing is not the pathway to respectability that you seek.

*sdn.

 

[ShyRem]

Closing. This has gone on far far too long.