Got in, but EXPENSIVE! Should i go?

[PushupsForAll]

Hey this thread is perfectly in line with my 2 day long panic attack last week!!! My problem is that I REALLY want to do FM, but man alive, paying off these loans on that 200k, turning into like 120k after taxes, I'm at the same UG debt as you, I'm married, 29, probably kids soon and starting school in July, and my tuition is 5k more a year, and I'll need the full cost of living, especially since I can't really have roommates. Was doing math last week, went into full blown panic realizing I'd be poor for about the next 20 years, assuming I aggressively pay off loans, I'll be doing better than lower middle class by the time I'm 50...
I about lost my mind there for a bit.
There are so many options out there.
Live in a place you don't want for 10 years that pays bank for being rural and pays off loans. If that's what it takes then I'll do it. I feel bad, not being able to locate my family where we want, but that's life. Also other people mentioned bonuses, NHSC, PSLF, extra shifts, hospitals that will help pay off loans. And again, this is all assuming PCP, so if you specialize and make 300k a year, then you'll be in a MUCH better situation obviously. So if you specialize you get more money, PCP you have tons of repayment options.
Sure I'll be living on like 40k for a long time, but with the privilege of being a doctor. Which is my main point. It's no secret, you don't go into being a doctor for the money, you just don't. Those days are gone with how expensive school is now, kinda going the way of dentistry. You do this if you can't imagine doing anything else. If this is your dream and will make you happy. There will be a lot of financial sacrifice, so you have to make sure this makes you happy enough to get through it.

TL;DR
Do it if you really, really love it, there are options.

#1. It took me literally 4 days of non stop playing trying to kill Yhorm the Giant until I finally did (I didn't have any lightning equiptment)

#2. Everyone keeps telling me. "Do it if you love it". Idk what that means. I love mountain biking more than i love studying. Am i going to become a professional mountain biker? Probably not. Honestly I do not see myself doing anything else than this that will actually put money on the table. I always feel like I could do more if not this probably.

I like outdoors, contact sports, health, and biochemistry. I'm good at studying and putting in hard work. Naturally as I mentioned, there's nothing else I could do that combines elements of health, exercise, and biochem, that also puts dinner on the table and allows for a good lifestyle. I always see comments like "go do a PhD if you like biochem" the same as me going to school and then telling myself "if you just studied maybe a few more years, you couldve been a doctor."

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[dushash]

#2. Everyone keeps telling me. "Do it if you love it". Idk what that means. I love mountain biking more than i love studying. Am i going to become a professional mountain biker? Probably not. Honestly I do not see myself doing anything else than this that will actually put money on the table. I always feel like I could do more if not this probably.

I like outdoors, contact sports, health, and biochemistry. I'm good at studying and putting in hard work. Naturally as I mentioned, there's nothing else I could do that combines elements of health, exercise, and biochem, that also puts dinner on the table and allows for a good lifestyle. I always see comments like "go do a PhD if you like biochem" the same as me going to school and then telling myself "if you just studied maybe a few more years, you couldve been a doctor."

Hey man, I love chicks, good food and good movies too, but does that mean I can become a gigolo that will be paid to satisfy Scorsese's or Tarantino's hot model girlfriends while they will show me their latest movies and offer me expensive gourmet food? Probably not. Job/work = suffering. Pick the suffering you can tolerate and maybe enjoy 25% of time - that should cover "love it" part in real world. That's what they mean when they say it.

Yours truly,
captain obvious

 

[trev5150]

probably kids soon

There are some things you can control. This is one of them.

 

[trev5150]

Hey man, I love chicks, good food and good movies too, but does that mean I can become a gigolo that will be paid to satisfy Scorsese's or Tarantino's hot model girlfriends while they will show me their latest movies and offer me expensive gourmet food? Probably not. Job/work = suffering. Pick the suffering you can tolerate and maybe enjoy 25% of time - that should cover "love it" part in real world. That's what they mean when they say it.

Yours truly,
captain obvious

Marty Scorsese is 75 years old LOL. You're really reaching into the wayback machine for that ref. Who are you, Dennis Miller?

 

[cliquesh]

#1. It took me literally 4 days of non stop playing trying to kill Yhorm the Giant until I finally did (I didn't have any lightning equiptment)

#2. Everyone keeps telling me. "Do it if you love it". Idk what that means. I love mountain biking more than i love studying. Am i going to become a professional mountain biker? Probably not. Honestly I do not see myself doing anything else than this that will actually put money on the table. I always feel like I could do more if not this probably.

I like outdoors, contact sports, health, and biochemistry. I'm good at studying and putting in hard work. Naturally as I mentioned, there's nothing else I could do that combines elements of health, exercise, and biochem, that also puts dinner on the table and allows for a good lifestyle. I always see comments like "go do a PhD if you like biochem" the same as me going to school and then telling myself "if you just studied maybe a few more years, you couldve been a doctor."

Hey this thread is perfectly in line with my 2 day long panic attack last week!!! My problem is that I REALLY want to do FM, but man alive, paying off these loans on that 200k, turning into like 120k after taxes, I'm at the same UG debt as you, I'm married, 29, probably kids soon and starting school in July, and my tuition is 5k more a year, and I'll need the full cost of living, especially since I can't really have roommates. Was doing math last week, went into full blown panic realizing I'd be poor for about the next 20 years, assuming I aggressively pay off loans, I'll be doing better than lower middle class by the time I'm 50...
I about lost my mind there for a bit.
There are so many options out there.
Live in a place you don't want for 10 years that pays bank for being rural and pays off loans. If that's what it takes then I'll do it. I feel bad, not being able to locate my family where we want, but that's life. Also other people mentioned bonuses, NHSC, PSLF, extra shifts, hospitals that will help pay off loans. And again, this is all assuming PCP, so if you specialize and make 300k a year, then you'll be in a MUCH better situation obviously. So if you specialize you get more money, PCP you have tons of repayment options.
Sure I'll be living on like 40k for a long time, but with the privilege of being a doctor. Which is my main point. It's no secret, you don't go into being a doctor for the money, you just don't. Those days are gone with how expensive school is now, kinda going the way of dentistry. You do this if you can't imagine doing anything else. If this is your dream and will make you happy. There will be a lot of financial sacrifice, so you have to make sure this makes you happy enough to get through it.

TL;DR
Do it if you really, really love it, there are options.

What's kind of funny is that you actually have little idea what it will be like to be a physician. You may end up hating it and you'll be stuck with a mountain of debt.

 

[trev5150]

What's kind of funny is that you actually have little idea what it will be like to be a physician. You may end up hating it and you'll be stuck with a mountain of debt.

What's kind of funny is you made a pretty reckless assumption based on the posts you quoted. You don't have a full accounting of their knowledge of the role based on two posts.

 

[cliquesh]

What's kind of funny is you made a pretty reckless assumption based on the posts you quoted. You don't have a full accounting of their knowledge of the role based on two posts.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything. I was just trying to make a point about the saying, "do what you love." It is very hard, if not impossible, to know what something is like until you actual do it. You can observe physicians all you want, but it's not the same as doing it yourself. In my opinion, you won't really understand being a physician until you're a senior resident and by then it might be too late to realize you made a bad choice for yourself. If you have a large amount of debt you'll be essentially trapped in a career you dislike unless you have access to some other high paying field.

 

[trev5150]

I wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything. I was just trying to make a point about the saying, "do what you love." It is very hard, if not impossible, to know what something is like until you actual do it. You can observe physicians all you want, but it's not the same as doing it yourself. In my opinion, you won't really understand being a physician until you're a senior resident and by then it might be too late to realize you made a bad choice for yourself. If you have a large amount of debt you'll be essentially trapped in a career you dislike unless you have access to some other high paying field.

That goes for everybody, therefore it goes without saying. Your post was clearly a passive-aggressive attempt to belittle, demoralize, or otherwise call into question the motivation for embarking on a pathway that is generally accepted to be frought with all manner or obstacles, debt being the most well known of them. You likely did this because you're (probably still) a resident, probably miserable and on call, and in the midst of your own inner battle with getting to the acceptance phase of repaying all that coin. You had a crappy day and now you think it's up to you to adjust attitudes from the hopeful and optimistic to feeling just a little more downtrodden because you can't stand all this enthusiasm around you. I get it. I've been there myself.

It ain't your job to come in here and **** on people's dreams because you have ragerts, friend. Save you angst for the other sections of this forum and torturing med students and interns as would a serial killer in training harasses cats.

 

[cliquesh]

That goes for everybody, therefore it goes without saying. Your post was clearly a passive-aggressive attempt to belittle, demoralize, or otherwise call into question the motivation for embarking on a pathway that is generally accepted to be frought with all manner or obstacles, debt being the most well known of them. You likely did this because you're (probably still) a resident, probably miserable and on call, and in the midst of your own inner battle with getting to the acceptance phase of repaying all that coin. You had a crappy day and now you think it's up to you to adjust attitudes from the hopeful and optimistic to feeling just a little more downtrodden because you can't stand all this enthusiasm around you. I get it. I've been there myself.

It ain't your job to come in here and **** on people's dreams because you have ragerts, friend. Save you angst for the other sections of this forum and torturing med students and interns as would a serial killer in training harasses cats.

I was an attending for a bit, didn't like it much, and returned to my previous career, which I'm happy with. I was fortunate to graduate with no debt, and I cannot imagine how I would have felt if I had huge debt to deal with. I'm just relaying my experience. I'm not saying go or don't go medical school. I'm just saying it may or may not be the right fit for you and you probably won't realize this until you're a resident. I think it is something worth considering, especially if you are older or have a family. Everyone is different. My wife loves being a physician. It just wasn't for me, which I found surprising.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Says the premed lol.

That goes for everybody, therefore it goes without saying. Your post was clearly a passive-aggressive attempt to belittle, demoralize, or otherwise call into question the motivation for embarking on a pathway that is generally accepted to be frought with all manner or obstacles, debt being the most well known of them. You likely did this because you're (probably still) a resident, probably miserable and on call, and in the midst of your own inner battle with getting to the acceptance phase of repaying all that coin. You had a crappy day and now you think it's up to you to adjust attitudes from the hopeful and optimistic to feeling just a little more downtrodden because you can't stand all this enthusiasm around you. I get it. I've been there myself.

It ain't your job to come in here and **** on people's dreams because you have ragerts, friend. Save you angst for the other sections of this forum and torturing med students and interns as would a serial killer in training harasses cats.

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

Man this place can be toxic

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

#1. It took me literally 4 days of non stop playing trying to kill Yhorm the Giant until I finally did (I didn't have any lightning equiptment)

Oh for sure, he made me break down and finally start summoning help

 

[Shotapp]

@trev5150

Chill man. Cliquesh was offering his perspective because he actually was a physician. Yhorm the Giant is a pre-med that has been accepted to medical school. He doesn't know what the day to day work being a physician entails yet. So it wasn't an assumption it was fact.

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

Honestly it's a little bit like marriage I think. Everyone is convinced at the beginning that they are sure they want to spend forever together. But stuff happens and things change. That's why you date first to give yourself the best chance of being right, kind of like you shadow and work in a clinical settings. There's no guarantee. But I could tell you for damn sure right now I don't want to keep doing construction or factory jobs forever. I've already dated them and don't like them. Along with like the five other Majors that I had during my seven years in undergrad from computer science to criminal justice. I've dated medicine as hard as I can without actually marrying it, and I'm rolling that dice, cause right now I love the idea and my perception of it and I hope that I always will, enough to overcome all the bureaucratic nonsense, paperwork, politics, and every other thing that leads to terrible days in doctors lives, but obviously it's far from a guarantee.

 

[calivianya]

Just saying, $100k take home is HUGE money. Let's not forget the average per capita income in the US is around $31k/year.

As a US physician, even in primary care, you're ~95th percentile for earnings. If you can't make your life work and pay your loans off on a 95th percentile salary, I don't know what to tell you. Yes, it's a lot of loans... but you're still going to pay them off just fine.

 

[trev5150]

Says the premed lol.

Actually says the 43 year old guy who's been shot at and missed and **** at and hit. Your attempt to shove me in a corner by calling me a pre-med nothing earns you a **** off.

@trev5150
Chill man. Cliquesh was offering his perspective because he actually was a physician. Yhorm the Giant is a pre-med that has been accepted to medical school. He doesn't know what the day to day work being a physician entails yet. So it wasn't an assumption it was fact.

And thank you for your kind assistance in the matter as well.

Don't worry about replying, you're both on the ignore list.

 

[073116]

Defeating the Giants, living on a $3 a day and contemplating whether one should go for it with 497 mcat lol. I feel like I'm still in high school
This thread shows why one should stay away from pre-med forums and possibly from SDN lol

 

[PushupsForAll]

What's kind of funny is that you actually have little idea what it will be like to be a physician. You may end up hating it and you'll be stuck with a mountain of debt.

Well I don't think anyone knows what is like to be a physician until they are actually one. Ive worked as a chief scribe for about almost a year now and after seeing like every patient one day and doing a **** load of notes, I feel like i do have a pretty good idea. Obviously not the same considering im not calling the shots or even close. it's a lot of work and i really dont think I will be interested in ortho at all considering i work in an ortho clinic and these guys are just worked hard af.

I don't think you're a jerk but I will admit that was a bit condescending of you. Telling me "you might hate it" is really not a good advice. if anything it gives me more anxiety lol. But if you could go on and explain why exactly you hated it and mistakes to avoid, im all ears.

 

[Osminog]

Honestly it's a little bit like marriage I think.

Caribbean medical school is like marriage. It seems like sunshine and rainbows at first, but then you go through brutal torture and discover there's a 50% failure rate.

 

[JGimpel]

You went through all the time and expense to have the chance to medical school and doubting if you should go? Go to med school, residency and for at least a few years practicing, then start to live it up for a while. With all of the above estimates (mine was only a few thousand lower than yours,) get how to NOT keep up with the Jones STAT. My family has done this and I'm much better for it. No fancy phones, especially expensive iPhones,) get reasonably reliable transportation from a used car and buy a crock pot that will practically make your meals for you.

GO TO MED SCHOOL!

 

[cliquesh]

Well I don't think anyone knows what is like to be a physician until they are actually one. Ive worked as a chief scribe for about almost a year now and after seeing like every patient one day and doing a **** load of notes, I feel like i do have a pretty good idea. Obviously not the same considering im not calling the shots or even close. it's a lot of work and i really dont think I will be interested in ortho at all considering i work in an ortho clinic and these guys are just worked hard af.

I don't think you're a jerk but I will admit that was a bit condescending of you. Telling me "you might hate it" is really not a good advice. if anything it gives me more anxiety lol. But if you could go on and explain why exactly you hated it and mistakes to avoid, im all ears.

I simply did not find the work enjoyable or rewarding. It happens occasionally. I never considered that it would happen to me as a pre-med or even as a graduating medical student (I really liked med school), but it did and I think I would have been in a terrible position if I had a tremendous amount of debt, which is why I made the comment in the first place. I think I was just being self reflective. Sorry if you thought I was being condescending.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Don’t go. If you’re going to a DO school and not OK with probably ending up in primary care, then don’t go bc that’s probably what’s going to happen.

Don’t go if you’re not ok with tons of debt bc that is definitely what’s going to happen.

If you want less debt and control over your field go be a PA. Seriously.

 

[GypsyHummus]

If I were in OPs shoes, I would deff take the plunge and go to the school, even if the pricetag was 400K+. I say this full well being fine with being a Family Med doctor in a rural area however. If I was Derm or bust, id look into other options like an SMP at MD school.

The worst case scenario (barring any sort of dismissal) is that you will end up in Family Med or Peds making anywhere from 150K-220K, more if you hussle. There should be no reason why you cannot pay off 600K+ of debt in ten years, even without government Programs.

There is also a ton you can do with a DO degree if you find out you dont like being a physician. You can do consulting for Pharma companies, you can Teach, you can do health consulting/nutritionist, sleep medicine, cash based OMT, Medical spas, research, the list goes on and on. There are so many people out there clawing to try and get into medical school, its competitive for a reason.

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

This thread is absurd. 35 years of physician pay in the lowest earning field is about $5,000,000 > $400,000 loans.
I'll even put the conservative numbers up if you're an absolute idiot at running a family practice, and don't invest or save. $3,500,000 > $600,000 (loans, interest, other expenses, etc.)
That is more money than an average middle class family living in a 3 bedroom, 1 bathroom, 1 garage house will ever accrue. Stop looking at the short term numbers, and look at the big picture.

 

[PushupsForAll]

Thank you all for your opinions.

I think i've had a lot of time to think about it and have decided that I will be going off to med school for a D.O.. It's a lot of money but so far there's nothing else really going for me in life and i invested almost my entire existence in college and the past year just for the opportunity to go to med school. less time with friends, tremendous loss of sleep, attended maybe 12 or less parties, deactivated from fraternity, list goes on......

I honestly don't think I'll score higher on the mcat and my understanding is the more you study for boards the better you'll do.

as far the future, maybe ill end up in primary care but ill im shooting for those fields i mentioned before. And whoever posted about the non-clinical work, you are absolutely right.

Thanks a ton again to everyone. It's a plunge, but it's the best thing going on for me at this point in my life and it would be crazy to pass up an opportunity like this.

 

[scpod]

To use a football analogy, never take points off the board. You are never guaranteed another acceptance. You are right to worry about debt, but the best thing you can do is hire a financial adviser that specializes in physician debt. I work as an independent contractor and not an employee. I am my own s-corporation and although my income puts me in the 39 1/2% income bracket I end up paying about 22% of my income in taxes. trust me, I'm not smart enough to figure it out all on my own. I'm a doctor- not an accountant.

 

[pilsburydocboy]

Personally I think I'm going to take the rural medicine route. Most states offer a good amount of money, 10K-50K/years if you're in peds, internal, family med or psych in a very undeserved area. I'm all about the one stop town and a piece of land. If you can make that work, for at least a while, it will pay dividends.


Also if you already committed to primary care look into the NHSC scholarship program, its super competitive but it's worth a shot.

Compounding interest is a b**** tho, and I don't think most pre-meds really comprehend it. PA school until you hit your mid 40s, is a better financial movie.