Jan 13, 2011
534
9
Status
Dental Student
Work on your DAT this summer. Apply for the Masters in the fall, or take post-bac classes. Me, I would take post bac. But you definitely need to bring your DAT to 20+ with your GPA being so low.
 
OP
R
Jan 25, 2013
4
0
Status
post-bacc classes being just any graduate level courses correct? and it would start a new GPA?
 
Jan 13, 2011
534
9
Status
Dental Student
post-bacc classes being just any graduate level courses correct? and it would start a new GPA?
No, additional undergrad classes to increase your GPA and science GPA, like 400 level science courses.

If you're going to take a graduate level course, you might as well do a 1 year masters. And its not a new GPA for post-bac.
 
Jan 13, 2011
534
9
Status
Dental Student
I think at this point I would be much more concerned with your DAT than your GPA. You can take 2 classes each semester while you wait to apply.
 
Jun 15, 2011
482
17
Status
rdqq,

respectfully, with the exception of your PAT score, I don't see any potential.

Are you sure you are capable? Is there somebody who knows you well and who is trustworthy enough to level with you if you aren't?

Predents have a tendency to be over-encouraging.

It would be a shame to throw more money and time away that you can never get back.

If you are capable: identify what you did wrong to get low scores on the DAT. I'd recommend you review as many posts in the DAT forum and compare the successful scoring test takers with the not so successful and see what you have in common, etc.
 

sacapuntas

Verified Account
Feb 25, 2011
1,544
113
Status
Dental Student
rdqq,

respectfully, with the exception of your PAT score, I don't see any potential.

Are you sure you are capable? Is there somebody who knows you well and who is trustworthy enough to level with you if you aren't?

Predents have a tendency to be over-encouraging.

It would be a shame to throw more money and time away that you can never get back.

If you are capable: identify what you did wrong to get low scores on the DAT. I'd recommend you review as many posts in the DAT forum and compare the successful scoring test takers with the not so successful and see what you have in common, etc.
This post may be well meaning, but is foolish.

2 weeks before my DAT I was scoring about what your scores are on my practice tests. I ended up scoring higher than the scores bobby is trying to flaunt in his signature.

The DAT can be learned by anyone, it is all about prep. Your GPA isn't that bad, mine was about .1 higher and I got accepted into more schools than can fit on one hand. What you need is a solid trend.

I would suggest getting into an informal post-bacc and taking your classes very seriously (getting all A's). This will show you are a capable student and won't break the bank the way a masters will.

In the meantime, visit the DAT forum (in my opinion, the only quality part of bobby's post) to get some ideas on how to do well on the DAT. As I stated, I was scoring in your range 2 weeks before the DAT, but the great materials I used and my study methods (both gleaned form the DAT forum) allowed me to put it all together and score well on the DAT.

I think you are capable of doing better on the DAT, given usage of proper materials and time allocated to studying. If you can get a 19AA with no sections below 18 AND apply broadly, you will have a shot. If you get a 20AA you will have a great shot. I think you can do it, based on your current GPA and your desire to improve yourself.
 

TOMS90

Removed
Jan 15, 2013
68
0
Status
Pre-Dental
rdqq,

respectfully, with the exception of your PAT score, I don't see any potential.

Are you sure you are capable? Is there somebody who knows you well and who is trustworthy enough to level with you if you aren't?

Predents have a tendency to be over-encouraging.

It would be a shame to throw more money and time away that you can never get back.

If you are capable: identify what you did wrong to get low scores on the DAT. I'd recommend you review as many posts in the DAT forum and compare the successful scoring test takers with the not so successful and see what you have in common, etc.


Dude you sound like an annoying nerd who enjoys bashing people who got lower scores than you. Calm down...
 
Jun 15, 2011
482
17
Status
The DAT can be learned by anyone, it is all about prep...
^^ Totally disagree with the first 1/2 of this sentence. Agree with the second half.

There is a certain threshold of brains required and there is a certain amount of test taking ability to perform at least competitively. If everyone had it, everyone who is taking it would be in the 90th+ percentile: something which is obviously mutually exclusive.

I don't believe anyone has it until they score 19+ on the thing. If anyone wants to prove they have it after first proving they don't by retaking it and scoring 19+ great! Its not impossible, but it is rare.

Its a disservice (and dishonest frankly) to not be asking the obvious first hard question of a DAT candidate who is not scoring 19+: i.e. do you possess the innate capability? Its ******ed to encourage 70% of DAT takers to keep trying when those who score 70% or below (esp. on all sections) are statistically unlikely to be capable in the first place.

The potential for loss of years of a young person's best years of their life as well as familial finances chasing the unattainable is very, very discourteous. Interpret the facts as rudeness or courteousness, thems the facts. I don't make the rules of life, don't attack me.
 

sacapuntas

Verified Account
Feb 25, 2011
1,544
113
Status
Dental Student
^^ Totally disagree with the first 1/2 of this sentence. Agree with the second half.

There is a certain threshold of brains required and there is a certain amount of test taking ability to perform at least competitively. If everyone had it, everyone who is taking it would be in the 90th+ percentile: something which is obviously mutually exclusive.

I don't believe anyone has it until they score 19+ on the thing. If anyone wants to prove they have it after first proving they don't by retaking it and scoring 19+ great! Its not impossible, but it is rare.

Its a disservice (and dishonest frankly) to not be asking the obvious first hard question of a DAT candidate who is not scoring 19+: i.e. do you possess the innate capability? Its ******ed to encourage 70% of DAT takers to keep trying when those who score 70% or below (esp. on all sections) are statistically unlikely to be capable in the first place.

The potential for loss of years of a young person's best years of their life as well as familial finances chasing the unattainable is very, very discourteous.
First, I agree, I used the word 'anyone' too liberally. I will change my usage to mean anyone with a respectable GPA, and 3.24 science GPA certainly fits that category.

Now,
I assume you know what the word 'average' means.

I assume you know that many schools have a DAT 'average' of 19 or less.

Therefore, I assume you realize many accepted dental students have a DAT of less than 19AA, some significantly lower.


Also, immature and inappropriate use of the word '******ed'.
 

dentalWorks

Nights Watchmen
7+ Year Member
Jun 25, 2009
5,646
158
Sterling Hts, Mi
Status
Dentist
I really need your guys's help!

I took my DAT this august not accepting to do as bad as i did and i had already submitted my application to AADSAS in july!
my DAT scores are:
PAT- 22
QR- 16
RC- 17
Bio- 17
GC- 18
OC- 18
TS- 18
AA- 17

i obviously didn't get any invites to none of the schools i applied too and i knew i was going to reapply next year as well.
however, my GPA is 3.24 both science and overall. i am graduating this summer (summer semester being my last).

i was thinking of applying to a one year masters program and make sure that GPA stays high, but it would still not count as part of my application because i would start it in the fall, and my application would have been submitted. and i also want to study for the DAT this summer, therefore- i dont believe that i should be taking classes (because i was taking 18 credits last time i took it).

what do you guys think i should do?? work on my dat and make sure that is high enough to back off my gpa?? or go into the masters program but gram my dat with my last 2 classes that i need this summer???

please helppppp!! thank youuu!
there is no point in working on a masters program... if you want a boost to ur application, a DAT retake is the real deal.
 
Jun 15, 2011
482
17
Status
First, I agree, I used the word 'anyone' too liberally. I will change my usage to mean anyone with a respectable GPA, and 3.24 science GPA certainly fits that category.

Now,
I assume you know what the word 'average' means.

I assume you know that many schools have a DAT 'average' of 19 or less.

Therefore, I assume you realize many accepted dental students have a DAT of less than 19AA, some significantly lower.


Also, immature and inappropriate use of the word '******ed'*.
'many' meaning Howard, Meharry, Puerto Rico?:smuggrin:

But seriously, you are right, at the bottom of the list I see several (not many) with DATs of sub 18.5 (see list below)

I guess I was using 19+ (technically 18.5) because I was rounding up for the vast majority of schools (~90%).

Anyways: the following is for the edification of the OP, click on the link there is lots of treasure scattered all throughout this forum:

AA PAT

Harvard 23.00 1 Harvard 22.00
Columbia 22.59 2 Pitt 21.13
UCLA 22.00 3 Columbia 21.12
UOP 21.00 4 UCLA 21.00
NOVA 21.00 5 UCSF 21.00
SUNY SB 21.00 6 UOP 21.00
Penn 21.00 7 Case 21.00
Pitt 20.32 8 Penn 21.00
Ohio 20.30 9 Ohio 20.82
Wash 20.26 10 Loma L 20.80
UCSF 20.00 11 Michigan 20.68
USC 20.00 12 Wash 20.60
Conn 20.00 13 SUNY Buf 20.45
Florida 20.00 14 Oregon 20.43
Maryland 20.00 15 E Carolina 20.33
Tufts 20.00 16 Minnesota 20.27
Mercy 20.00 17 Georgia 20.20
NY 20.00 18 Nevada 20.13
N Carolina 20.00 19 Alabama 20.00
Case 20.00 20 USC 20.00
UT-SA 20.00 21 Colorado 20.00
Loma L 19.80 22 Conn 20.00
Oklahoma 19.79 23 NOVA 20.00
UMDNJ 19.72 24 Florida 20.00
Boston 19.70 25 Midw Il 20.00
Temple 19.70 26 Louisville 20.00
Minnesota 19.66 27 Maryland 20.00
Baylor 19.60 28 Tufts 20.00
Michigan 19.58 29 Mercy 20.00
SUNY Buf 19.47 30 Nebraska 20.00
Midwest 19.41 31 NY 20.00
Illinois 19.40 32 SUNY SB 20.00
UT Hou 19.40 33 N Carolina 20.00
Nevada 19.38 34 Temple 20.00
Oregon 19.31 35 S Carolina 20.00
Western 19.20 36 UT-SA 20.00
E Carolina 19.17 37 Roseman 20.00
S. Illinois 19.10 38 Creighton 19.95
Creighton 19.01 39 UMDNJ 19.84
Alabama 19.00 40 Midwest 19.82
Colorado 19.00 41 S. Illinois 19.80
Midw Il 19.00 42 Louisiana 19.80
Ilndiana 19.00 43 Western 19.70
Iowa 19.00 44 UT Hou 19.65
Louisville 19.00 45 Boston 19.50
Nebraska 19.00 46 Miss 19.50
S Carolina 19.00 47 Illinois 19.40
Roseman 19.00 48 Baylor 19.40
Virginia 19.00 49 Oklahoma 19.30
Georgia 18.90 50 Arizona 19.29
Louisiana 18.90 51 Marquette 19.20
Marquette 18.79 52 Misso KC 19.17
Misso KC 18.75 53 Ilndiana 19.00
Miss 18.50 54 Iowa 19.00
Arizona 18.21 55 Kentucky 19.00
Kentucky 18.00 56 Virginia 19.00
Tenn 18.00 57 Howard 18.02
W Va 18.00 58 Tenn 18.00
Howard 17.74 59 W Va 18.00
Meharry 17.00 60 Puerto R 17.00
Puerto R 16.00 61 Meharry 17.00

source:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=899971

*was it ******ed of me to use ******ed that way? Oh please stop with the PC (politically correct) kid glove nonsense. Life is way too short. Unless you are trying to impress some girl or are one yourself, of course. Then by all means, keep trying to censor for points or because you can't help it.:thumbup::laugh:
 

dentalWorks

Nights Watchmen
7+ Year Member
Jun 25, 2009
5,646
158
Sterling Hts, Mi
Status
Dentist
rdqq,

respectfully, with the exception of your PAT score, I don't see any potential.

Are you sure you are capable? Is there somebody who knows you well and who is trustworthy enough to level with you if you aren't?

Predents have a tendency to be over-encouraging.

It would be a shame to throw more money and time away that you can never get back.

If you are capable: identify what you did wrong to get low scores on the DAT. I'd recommend you review as many posts in the DAT forum and compare the successful scoring test takers with the not so successful and see what you have in common, etc.
this post is unnecessary, demeaning, and makes you sound very pompous

who are you to judge the "capability" of others based on a standardized exam. you should stick to the main topic of the posting. The OP is asking for advice on how to best prepare for next year's cycle, if you have nothing helpful to add, then simply don't speak.
 
Jan 13, 2011
534
9
Status
Dental Student
Whoa, everyone calm down. We can all agree the OP needs to work on the DAT. That is your Achille's heel. The OP's GPA is a little bit low so he needs to make it up by scoring above average on the DAT, preferably 20+.

If you don't have an average GPA then you can't have an average DAT, and the inverse is true.
 
Jun 15, 2011
482
17
Status
this post is unnecessary, demeaning, and makes you sound very pompous

who are you to judge the "capability" of others based on a standardized exam. you should stick to the main topic of the posting. The OP is asking for advice on how to best prepare for next year's cycle, if you have nothing helpful to add, then simply don't speak.
Like I said...over encouraging.

Like I said in my post...the OP ought to not put credence in anyone's word regarding their true potential (especially not some random douche like myself on the interwebs) on it except they be someone they know well and trust.

me pompous? check. absolutely without a doubt.

pomp·ous
adjective \ˈpäm-pəs\
Definition of POMPOUS
1
: excessively elevated or ornate
2
: having or exhibiting self-importance
3
: relating to or suggestive of pomp or splendor

Baroque music is my favorite bar none.
 
Last edited:
Jul 11, 2011
192
2
Status
Dental Student
I agree with Bobby's premise.. Dishonesty is a disservice to those coming here for help. Unfortunately he's having too much fun being the spokesman for Summer's Eve to effectively deliver his point.

To op - with a below average gpa, you will want an above average dat score (21+ is ideal). Even with this, it seems that gpa is weighted more heavily than dat score, so an smp/post bac might still be in order. I would suggest a retake first, simply because it's the quickest fix. If your second score doesn't reach that 21+ mark, then sign up for a post ug work. I hope this helps. Best of luck.
 

sacapuntas

Verified Account
Feb 25, 2011
1,544
113
Status
Dental Student
I assume you know that many schools have a DAT 'average' of 19 or less.

Therefore, I assume you realize many accepted dental students have a DAT of less than 19AA, some significantly lower.
'many' meaning Howard, Meharry, Puerto Rico?:smuggrin:

But seriously, you are right, at the bottom of the list I see several (not many) with DATs of sub 18.5 (see list below)

I guess I was using 19+ (technically 18.5) because I was rounding up for the vast majority of schools (~90%).


AA PAT



SUNY Buf 19.47 30
Midwest 19.41 31
Illinois 19.40 32
UT Hou 19.40 33
Nevada 19.38 34
Oregon 19.31 35
Western 19.20 36
E Carolina 19.17 37
S. Illinois 19.10 38
Creighton 19.01 39
Alabama 19.00 40
Colorado 19.00
Midw Il 19.00 42
Ilndiana 19.00 43
Iowa 19.00 44
Louisville 19.00
Nebraska 19.00
S Carolina 19.00
Roseman 19.00
Virginia 19.00 49
Georgia 18.90 50
Louisiana 18.90 51
Marquette 18.79 52
Misso KC 18.75 53
Miss 18.50 54
Arizona 18.21 55
Kentucky 18.00 56
Tenn 18.00 57
W Va 18.00 58
Howard 17.74 59
Meharry 17.00 60
Puerto R 16.00 61
source:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=899971
So according to your own source, 32 of 61 dental schools have an average AA of 19.47 (one typically rounds this to 19) or less. Way to self defeat yourself.
*was it ******ed of me to use ******ed that way? Oh please stop with the PC (politically correct) kid glove nonsense. Life is way too short. Unless you are trying to impress some girl or are one yourself, of course. Then by all means, keep trying to censor for points or because you can't help it.:thumbup::laugh:
So you contend it is appropriate to call something you don't agree with '******ed'? Any other groups of people you wish to demean and insult in your every day conversations?
 
Jun 15, 2011
482
17
Status
So according to your own source, 32 of 61 dental schools have an average AA of 19.47 (one typically rounds this to 19) or less. Way to self defeat yourself.


So you contend it is appropriate to call something you don't agree with '******ed'? Any other groups of people you wish to demean and insult in your every day conversations?
19+ to me means basically 19 and above which means technically 18.5 and above. Apples and oranges. Not that big of a deal, to me at least. The main idea of 19+ is certainly in the list of DAT scores. I don't care to get into a battle of sig figs and bean counting. That is one section of gen chem I hated.

I am sorry if you are adding context to my usage of the term from which you derive insult.

Repeat after me: "I am rubber and you are glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks on you..."

Aren't the schools and churches and popular media teaching this sort of thing anymore or has it been lost to the dustbin of cultural history and now everyone is walking around like a lit fuse waiting to get offended at some random word (by some random douche on the internet, no less)?

Rhetorical question with a sad answer. Ultimately, you alone are responsible for your reaction to your perception of an insult.
 
Last edited:

sacapuntas

Verified Account
Feb 25, 2011
1,544
113
Status
Dental Student
19+ to me means basically 19 and above which means technically 18.5 and above. Apples and oranges. Not that big of a deal, to me at least. The main idea of 19+ is certainly in the list of DAT scores. I don't care to get into a battle of sig figs and bean counting. That is one section of gen chem I hated.

I am sorry if you are adding context to my usage of the term from which you derive insult.

Repeat after me: "I am rubber and you are glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks on you..."

Aren't the schools and churches and popular media teaching this sort of thing anymore or has it been lost to the dustbin of cultural history and now everyone is walking around like a lit fuse waiting to get offended at some random word (by some random douche on the internet, no less)?

Rhetorical question with a sad answer. Ultimately, you alone are responsible for your reaction to your perception of an insult.
i am done with bobby fischer. interesting dude in real life, not so much on SDN.
 
Jun 15, 2011
482
17
Status
I agree with Bobby's premise.. Dishonesty is a disservice to those coming here for help. Unfortunately he's having too much fun being the spokesman for Summer's Eve to effectively deliver his point.

To op - with a below average gpa, you will want an above average dat score (21+ is ideal). Even with this, it seems that gpa is weighted more heavily than dat score, so an smp/post bac might still be in order. I would suggest a retake first, simply because it's the quickest fix. If your second score doesn't reach that 21+ mark, then sign up for a post ug work. I hope this helps. Best of luck.
:thumbup::thumbup::laugh:

I do think sacapuntas is correct in his/her observation of the 3.24 science GPA. Although I see no potential in the OP's chances for making a competitive candidate for a retake in the DAT scores given (except the PAT of course) there is the 3.24 science GPA as evidence.

Yes: this science GPA is some evidence of some potential (perhaps) of being able to buckle down, research the DAT forum for strategizing, re-prepping properly and then scoring in the 19+ range on a retake.
 

znny19

7+ Year Member
Feb 27, 2011
265
28
NYC
Status
Dentist
Rdq,

Ace this last semester but don't over do it on the credits. Also if you can, try not to stack so many hard classes at once. In my junior spring semester, I took only 13 credits and got a 4.0 because I knew I had to study for the DAT. This would bring your sGPA to a 3.3 which is respectable. Retake for sure. I think with 20's across the board you can get in somewhere next year. (A 3 point jump in AA is definitely doable).
 
Last edited: