GPA/DAT Isn't everything

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I think you don't need killer GPA or DAT to score interviews, but if there is a hole in any part of your app in the past, they are not always forgiven. I did poorly in the beginning of my undergrad but did amazing later on. Yes, there were many F's and W's in my undergrad. But I turned things around in my post-Bach and DAT, did ton of volunteer work, research, leadership positions, etc. I am talking about 26aa, A+ in organic, physics, cell biology and mostly A's in everything else. However, I only received two interviews and TONS of rejections. During one of them, my interviewer was reading off every single F and W I had on my transcript. Needless to say, I got waitlisted in that school. I was luckly to have a very understanding interviewer for my other interview. While I am very happy with the school that I just got accepted to, I am bitter to the other schools that never gave me a chance. I think I've earned it with all the hard work I put in the last couple of years. I think it is sad that some adcom can't get over past mistakes and see that the person has changed for the better.
 
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wo5678 said:
I think you don't need killer GPA or DAT to score interviews, but if there is a hole in any part of your app in the past, they are not always forgiven. I feel bad for Wcombs, i think the admissions committee should've been more forgiving to him/her given the circumstances and later achievements. I am a similiar situation where I did poorly in the beginning of my undergrad but did amazing later on. Yes, there were many F's and W's in my undergrad. But I turned things around in my post-Bach and DAT, did ton of volunteer work, research, leadership positions, etc. I am talking about 26aa, A+ in organic, physics, cell biology and mostly A's in everything else. However, I only received two interviews and TONS of rejections. During one of them, my interviewer was reading off every single F or W i had on my transcript. Needless to say, I got waitlisted in that school. I was luckly to have a very good understanding interviewer for my other interview. While I am very happy with the school that I just got accepted to, I am bitter to the other schools that never gave me a chance. I think I've earned it with all the hard work I put in the last couple of years. I think it is sad that some adcom can't get over past mistakes and see that the person has changed for the better.
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And just look at how great Beethoven became.
 
from what i've read/seen/heard GPA/DAT accounts for most of your application. any holes/discrepancies in your academic record will probably be slightly overlooked by really good test scores and improving academic trends.

even if you get an interview, your academic record isn't completely overlooked. it's still a factor. your gpa/dat most probably still gets plugged into some kind of an excel sheet/formula to rank you among other applicants.

unless you have unique circumstances,( i.e. are an under represented minority, or a career changer/non-trad applicant), chances are your gpa/dat will hold a bulk of your application weight.
 
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doubt it, since op didnt respond on dec 3 with another "humblebrag.jpg"
 
UCLAzy said:
doubt it, since op didnt respond on dec 3 with another "humblebrag.jpg"
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That's very true. I think a lot of people are waiting for the OP to post about his great success. :naughty:
Borat.jpg
 
R3DEUCE said:
It's not. Take a look at my stats on other threads.
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Wait, are you suggesting that you didn't win the lottery, and that admission should be common with your stats? Interesting.
 
lnngu said:
Wait, are you suggesting that you didn't win the lottery, and that admission should be common with your stats? Interesting.
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Honestly, I've come across enough people on this forum that have been accepted into schools with similar stats. It's not to say that it will be the case for everyone, however, I feel it is unfair for people to come to this forum and crash the dreams of others. Instead, we should be providing hope and some direction.
 
R3DEUCE said:
Honestly, I've come across enough people on this forum that have been accepted into schools with similar stats. It's not to say that it will be the case for everyone, however, I feel it is unfair for people to come to this forum and crash the dreams of others. Instead, we should be providing hope and some direction.
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that is true, no one should be crashing the dreams of others on this site. however if someone is capable of crashing your dreams on a internet forum, thats a problem in itself....
also, while it is commendable and admirable you got accepted with a lower gpa, you should also mention that you are considered a minority through aadsas, it makes a difference in the application process. so while you had a 2.8 bcp and didnt need to complete an MS or a postbacc in order to gain acceptance, perhaps others will need to bc those numbers are not common amongst accepted students.
 
it's not a matter of being a URM among the entire population. i live in a very south asian area...and while south asians may not be a minority here, in the grand scheme of the U.S. population..the group is still a minority. in terms of dentistry, asians are NOT a minority. this is all info that is published btw. you have to look at it from the demographics of the dental profession itself.

and it's not a matter of crashing other people's dreams. people need to be realistic and not be naive.
 
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I interviewed at UW and the topic of discussion was obviously my grades. I had to discuss why my grades are a little low and why I did not retake my DAT. I felt they liked me because when I left the interview the admission officer pulled me aside and told me, "don't be discouraged if you don't hear back right away, we go through a lot of applicants and I am confident you will be just fine in the end."

If you clearly read my previous post, I said, "See you on December 3rd, or later." I knew I wouldn't be in the first batch of acceptances and never claimed I would. Just because I didn't hear back right away it doesn't mean that I will not receive an acceptance. In fact, with my stats I didn't expect to be accepted on the early, if i do get accepted I expect I would get a call in the second, third, fourth, etc. round of acceptances. Students receive offers of acceptance sporadically and continuously until school dental schools matriculate and I still feel I have a great shot.

Also, since posting the original thread, I received a fifth interview offer but could not afford to fly across the country so I had to turn it down. If you choose to respond to this post, please do so respectfully. I interview at UCSF in January.
 
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R3DEUCE said:
I guess you may be right. As we discussed, the whole "URM" concept is foreign for me as Hispanics in South Florida are far from a minority. Of course everyone needs something to boost their credibility... In my case, it was my professional experience, for someone else it may be their masters/post bacc or some other factor. In the end, GPA or DAT is not "everything", one or the other along with a strong application should be enough to get your foot through the door at a decent number of schools.
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Glad to see that, since up till now, I had only seen you mention a low GPA along with a lack of post bac/master (granted, i haven't paid very close attention). You'd have to admit that if this were the whole of it, then it would be pretty poor advice, which I thought WAS the point of these forums.
 
RSalha17 said:
Hey guys,

I just want to give a little bit of confidence and insight to those who applied (or are planning on applying in the future) who don't have a stellar GPA or killer DAT scores. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need amazing stats to get interviews at great schools. My stats are at/below average, and I have received 4 interviews so far, 2 pre-dec and 2 post-dec (stats/interviews are below). Don't get me wrong, gpa/dat scores are an integral part of your application, and a quick way to get an adcom's attention, but once your application is initially reviewed, gpa/dat are NOT everything.

My EC's, work/volunteer experience, research experience, etc. played a VERY important role in making my application stand out. I have spent hundreds of hours in dentists office and volunteering in my community, and have SHOWED the adcoms that i want to be a dentist and that I am committed to my community rather than just telling them. They want to see that you are dedicated to the profession and serving others, and shadowing at a couple dentist offices or volunteering for a few months before you send in your apps is not going to get their attention.

What WILL get their attention is showing how you cope with and overcome adversity, and that you have a strong understanding of the problems in dentistry and how you will help fix them. Referencing personal experiences and connecting them to these ideas is the best way to SHOW them that you understand these problems. For example, instead of just SAYING that I have shadowed in a community clinic and understand that we need more dentists willing to serve in underserved areas, you can SHOW them how volunteering in a community clinic has taught you that we need to change this problem by giving a short anecdote or story about how this has personally effected you. I made a cognitive effort to focus on this in my AADSAS app and secondaries and I really think it helped me stand out.

Please don't get the wrong idea from this post, I am not trying to gloat about my interviews or toot my own horn, I am simply offering some advice/support to those like me that don't have amazing stats. You don't need amazing stats to get noticed, but you do need to SHOW the adcoms that you want this career.

Good luck to everyone and like always, feel free to PM me with any questions or comments. Happy thanksgiving!
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Okay guys, I'm certain this isn't everyone's intentions and I'm not trying to step into a briar patch, but why in the world are we tearing RSalha down? I'm rereading his posts and nothing he says is cocky or pretentious. The message I'm getting is just that he wanted to provide a little peace of mind to current and future applicants that aren't exactly stellar in the "numbers" department. (That being said, his "numbers" regarding hours spent doing community service and shadowing do seem super high!) He isn't cutting down anyone with a good GPA/DAT; I think he has lots of respect for these people. Instead, he's just telling others that the world isn't over if they don't have a 25 AA or a 3.9 GPA. People on SDN are quick to get caught up in the numbers game and think that if they don't have a 23+ in every category they won't be accepted; in reality, though, this just isn't the case.

True, he hasn't been accepted yet. There are countless others in the same boat, and I don't think he needs to be taunted for this whatsoever. He's working on it, and I'm sure he will get an acceptance letter at some point. He never even said his acceptance was assured; he just said there were other things you could do in your application to get the attention of adcoms. Heck, he even gives some good advice about how to describe your experiences in interviews and applications. He's just helping others, whether it be through advice or just some calming anecdotes of his experiences. And, from what I gather, RSalha is very dedicated to helping others--he has his heart and priorities in the right place. He seems to really put serving others at the forefront, and even though its easy to just see dollar signs when it comes to healthcare professions (and I'm not saying I'm not guilty of this sometimes!), we could all probably do a more for others.

Cheers to you, RSalha. I'm rooting for you!
 
RSalha17 said:
You are talking about the applicant pool as a whole, not those who get interviews/acceptances. Let's take a look at enrollees instead, to give a completely unbiased look, rather than only showing the applicant pool as a whole.

IF i get accepted, and again this is a big IF, my DAT/GPA is significantly low in comparison to other enrollees. My 18 TS will be in the 37th percentile, my 3.2 sGPA will be in the 25th percentile, and my 3.38 oGPA will be in the 30th percentile. These are not exactly competitive when you look at the field of enrollees. How can you deny that there must be something else contributing as a major factor? Hence, my EC's, work experience, volunteer experience, and research. I respectfully disagree with you Doc. When/if I get an acceptance, I will post here to validate my point(s) from above. I understand that this post is premature, but I didn't want others to be persuaded only by the stats you provided, I wanted others to see both stats.
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Thank for sharing I really appreciated everything you said you are very very very inspirational!
 
Glimmer1991 said:
Okay guys, I'm certain this isn't everyone's intentions and I'm not trying to step into a briar patch, but why in the world are we tearing RSalha down? I'm rereading his posts and nothing he says is cocky or pretentious. The message I'm getting is just that he wanted to provide a little peace of mind to current and future applicants that aren't exactly stellar in the "numbers" department. (That being said, his "numbers" regarding hours spent doing community service and shadowing do seem super high!) He isn't cutting down anyone with a good GPA/DAT; I think he has lots of respect for these people. Instead, he's just telling others that the world isn't over if they don't have a 25 AA or a 3.9 GPA. People on SDN are quick to get caught up in the numbers game and think that if they don't have a 23+ in every category they won't be accepted; in reality, though, this just isn't the case.

True, he hasn't been accepted yet. There are countless others in the same boat, and I don't think he needs to be taunted for this whatsoever. He's working on it, and I'm sure he will get an acceptance letter at some point. He never even said his acceptance was assured; he just said there were other things you could do in your application to get the attention of adcoms. Heck, he even gives some good advice about how to describe your experiences in interviews and applications. He's just helping others, whether it be through advice or just some calming anecdotes of his experiences. And, from what I gather, RSalha is very dedicated to helping others--he has his heart and priorities in the right place. He seems to really put serving others at the forefront, and even though its easy to just see dollar signs when it comes to healthcare professions (and I'm not saying I'm not guilty of this sometimes!), we could all probably do a more for others.

Cheers to you, RSalha. I'm rooting for you!
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Well said!
 
Glimmer1991 said:
Okay guys, I'm certain this isn't everyone's intentions and I'm not trying to step into a briar patch, but why in the world are we tearing RSalha down?
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Probably because, even with the best intentions in the world, starting multiple threads about how to achieve something, while actually having not done it yet, comes across as self-agrandizing. Probably doesn't deserve being "torn' down, but I'd say some good natured teasing is warranted.
 
lnngu said:
Probably because, even with the best intentions in the world, starting multiple threads about how to achieve something, while actually having not done it yet, comes across as self-agrandizing. Probably doesn't deserve being "torn' down, but I'd say some good natured teasing is warranted.
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agreed. 👍
 
R3DEUCE said:
Well said!
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I swear, you are like the best and can see your professionalism through your writing . Reading your responses and posts are so clear and well written.

You should make a thread called
"Chat with R3DEUCE"

🙂
 
duckk8 said:
Thank for sharing I really appreciated everything you said you are very very very inspirational!
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Thank you very much for the kindness and support, I am happy to see another positive attitude one SDN. Let me know if I can help you out in any way! 🙂

lnngu said:
Probably because, even with the best intentions in the world, starting multiple threads about how to achieve something, while actually having not done it yet, comes across as self-agrandizing. Probably doesn't deserve being "torn' down, but I'd say some good natured teasing is warranted.
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Haha I am fully ok with good natured teasing, but the comments others made aren't really teasing, they are down right mean. Anyways, I have that interview next monday so I'll keep you guys posted on how that goes. Good luck to everyone, I hope some of us with no acceptances hear back in January!
 
tooth knockn said:
I swear, you are like the best and can see your professionalism through your writing . Reading your responses and posts are so clear and well written.

You should make a thread called
"Chat with R3DEUCE"

🙂
Click to expand...

I greatly appreciate that! Thanks for putting a smile on my face. 😀


Nancy V.
UMDNJ NJDS Class of 2017
AA 20 TS 20 GPA 3.0 sGPA 2.8
"Resilience is what makes it happen!"

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
RSalha17 said:
Thank you very much for the kindness and support, I am happy to see another positive attitude one SDN. Let me know if I can help you out in any way! 🙂



Haha I am fully ok with good natured teasing, but the comments others made aren't really teasing, they are down right mean. Anyways, I have that interview next monday so I'll keep you guys posted on how that goes. Good luck to everyone, I hope some of us with no acceptances hear back in January!
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Good luck bro!
 
ablackguy said:
Good.

Good job.

Where were you accepted?

I'm thinking about dropping out of Harvard Medical school for dentistry.
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Is the curriculum tough? Isn't it the same as the dental students there. Can't you just switch to the dental program from the med program?
 
KittySquared said:
The few folks I've interacted on this forum all seem to think applicants like myself should have more interviews than 3, but 3 are all I have, despite having clinical experience, publication and hundreds of EC hours. I'm convinced that dental school application is more of a crap shoot than anything else. During last years or maybe next year's cycle, you may be sitting on 7 interviews or none at all.
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I see that you are an RDH. I am also and have had 1 dental school interview so far. Did you get your MS specifically for being more competitive for dental school and if so, what is it in? Do you have any pointers for an RDH applying. I have been told not to make a big deal out of being an RDH, since it may seem like just working in the field has made me think I'm good enough to be the dentist. I'm trying to show that I want to further myself in the field without appearing cocky, like I already know what I'm doing. But, I also don't want to downplay my experiences too much. Thanks!
 
I just want to say I knew a person who had a 20 dat and 3.6 gap and had 9 interviews and 5acceptances. Kiddy was charming. It's the person you portray in person and not on paper.
 
What are your stats?

RSalha17 said:
Hey guys,

I just want to give a little bit of confidence and insight to those who applied (or are planning on applying in the future) who don't have a stellar GPA or killer DAT scores. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need amazing stats to get interviews at great schools. My stats are at/below average, and I have received 4 interviews so far, 2 pre-dec and 2 post-dec (stats/interviews are below). Don't get me wrong, gpa/dat scores are an integral part of your application, and a quick way to get an adcom's attention, but once your application is initially reviewed, gpa/dat are NOT everything.

My EC's, work/volunteer experience, research experience, etc. played a VERY important role in making my application stand out. I have spent hundreds of hours in dentists office and volunteering in my community, and have SHOWED the adcoms that i want to be a dentist and that I am committed to my community rather than just telling them. They want to see that you are dedicated to the profession and serving others, and shadowing at a couple dentist offices or volunteering for a few months before you send in your apps is not going to get their attention.

What WILL get their attention is showing how you cope with and overcome adversity, and that you have a strong understanding of the problems in dentistry and how you will help fix them. Referencing personal experiences and connecting them to these ideas is the best way to SHOW them that you understand these problems. For example, instead of just SAYING that I have shadowed in a community clinic and understand that we need more dentists willing to serve in underserved areas, you can SHOW them how volunteering in a community clinic has taught you that we need to change this problem by giving a short anecdote or story about how this has personally effected you. I made a cognitive effort to focus on this in my AADSAS app and secondaries and I really think it helped me stand out.

Please don't get the wrong idea from this post, I am not trying to gloat about my interviews or toot my own horn, I am simply offering some advice/support to those like me that don't have amazing stats. You don't need amazing stats to get noticed, but you do need to SHOW the adcoms that you want this career.

Good luck to everyone and like always, feel free to PM me with any questions or comments. Happy thanksgiving!
Click to expand...
 
Thanks everyone.

19AA/18TS/22pat
3.4 overall 3.2 science 3.0 bcp
 
UCLAzy said:
doubt it, since op didnt respond on dec 3 with another "humblebrag.jpg"
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You aren't a very nice person.

To everyone else out there who was positive and supportive, I extremely appreciate it. Those are the type of people we need as dentists.

As always, good luck to all and PM me if I can help in any way possible!
 
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Congratulations! You definitely deserve it 🙂
 
RSalha17 said:
You aren't a very nice person.
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my statement was 100% true at the time. and you did update the thread when you got an acceptance.

was going to say congrats, but now instead will say the bar at UW seems pretty low these days
 
No need to bash schools. The best dental school is the one you get accepted to.
 
GPA/DAT isn't everything, they're just the only things that matter. Also extracurricular but not as much.

Congrats on your acceptance mate.
 
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