Gross Anti-Islam Sentiment During AECOM Interview

[Virgil]

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Anti-semitism (correct me if I'm wrong) is typically used only in connection with Jewish folk.

Technically, anti-semitism is hatred directed towards Semetic peoples (Muslims and Jews), but in today's context it is usually only used when speaking about the latter.

 

[TheLesPaul]

+1. You learn something new every day. A quick wiki search reveals that any civilization based on those Semitic languages is (are?) a Semitic people.

 

[Cataract]

Also, I can't imagine a day will go by when I feel like my best recourse is to just "deal" with discrimination or prejudice. Do you think Civil Rights made progress in this country because people just "dealt" with injustice? That comment hints at a background free and clear of such things...must be nice!

Hey, I mentioned before that I agree with you in writing this letter. The school should know about this incident. However, I think you're making some very bold assumptions, especially in the last paragraph of the letter. I don't think it's fair to consider the interviewer's views the same as the school's It may in fact be an isolated incident. Granted, he is the Diversity guy, but that does not indicate the school sponsors his views: they may not have been apparent. Inform the school, yes, but grant the benefit of a doubt before suggesting the school recruit Muslim leaders because they're ignorant.

 

[dcMDiva]

hahhaa, that was actually really funny. i'm done for tonight...too drama for one day. unfortunately, it'll be waiting in the morning!

 

[160514]

Hey, I mentioned before that I agree with you in writing this letter. The school should know about this incident. However, I think you're making some very bold assumptions, especially in the last paragraph of the letter. I don't think it's fair to consider the interviewer's views the same as the school's It may in fact be an isolated incident. Granted, he is the Diversity guy, but that does not indicate the school sponsors his views: they may not have been apparent. Inform the school, yes, but grant the benefit of a doubt before suggesting the school recruit Muslim leaders because they're ignorant.

yeah but they chose him to represent them in diversity. the puck has to stop somewhere.

 

[NHL Fever]

Yeah i don't really have an original opinion about what happened, but I would like to also cast a nay vote on the writing.

From my layman's perspective it seems like you were trying to push the most impressive words you could find, rather than the most apt. One sentence in particular: "I could expound ad infinitum the myriad reasons why Dr. [interviewer's name removed]'s
behavior was so reprehensible." made me cringe. I have beef with the word "myriad" to be honest. It was a great word, but it has been whored out by so many High School students looking for a synonym for "lots" or "many" that I can't stand it anymore.

Also see: plethora.

I would agree with this assessment. Being through med school now, looking back that is possibly the style I would have written in, but now it looks ridiculous. It comes across as somebody trying to sound smart who's really not that smart. Nothing to do with you personally, but if I read this and didn't know the person that's what I would think. Also extremely redundant, you just make the same point over an over apart from the 2 examples. The letter loses its power due the 'trying-to-hard' feel to it. Much written, little said.

Anyway those kinds of situations are terrible to go through. However, you need to be able to. Being a doctor is stressful, you can't make a scene whenever somebody doesn't rub you the right way, or you will be alienated and miserable, already common for the average med student.

Whatever Dr. [interviewer's name removed] intent, I think you made practical miscalculations.
- Acting strongly, and immediately, almost solely fueled by emotion
- Telling the whole world your woes and disparaging your interviewer before you even know the result of your interview
- Coming to judgment about the entire school, after less than one hour experience with a single person

True or not for you, you need to realize that these character traits, are precisely the type of behavior that the general public already laments about Muslims, and precisely character traits that have fueled middle eastern conflict for centuries. You propagate the stereotype in this situation, even though you might be cool as a cucumber when feeling good, and even though your adversary might be completely in the wrong.

Adults are calm and rational. They cool down, think it through, make a plan, and act with caution. They compromise, know when to fight and when to lay it down (even when they're right). These are the kind of people med school wants and should have.

If you're a person of character, you don't need a wordy but ultimately empty verbal defense, your character will speak for itself. One person's ignorance doesn't define you. Think wisely - get into med school, be a success, and show those close to you the person you are, and I think you'll find far more satisfaction in life and career than going toe to toe with someone you will never convince. You stand a far better chance of winning them over by your exemplary performance and attitude than a long-winded sermon to people who don't know you.

 

[Cataract]

yeah but they chose him to represent them in diversity. the puck has to stop somewhere.

Right, I'm saying his views might not have been apparent. Is it possible that he could concealed his prejudice when they hired him? Sure.

And the puck has to stop somewhere? What?

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Technically, anti-semitism is hatred directed towards Semetic peoples (Muslims and Jews), but in today's context it is usually only used when speaking about the latter.

Wrong. The term "antisemitism" was coined in the 1800's to refer specifically to hatred of Jews, despite the fact the Jews, Arabs, and other people of mid-eastern origin are sometimes considered Semites (which is generally an outdated racial term).

 

[Virgil]

Right, I'm saying his views might not have been apparent. Is it possible that he could concealed his prejudice when they hired him? Sure.

And the puck has to stop somewhere? What?

lol it seems this necco guy is filled to the brim with one-liners.

 

[Virgil]

Wrong. The term "antisemitism" was coined in the 1800's to refer specifically to hatred of Jews, despite the fact the Jews, Arabs, and other people of mid-eastern origin are sometimes considered Semites (which is generally an outdated racial term).

Semantics. Although it is true that the word was established to refer specifically to Jews, nowadays it is also being used in reference to other Semetic groups. There actually exists a debate about this.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Semantics. Although it is true that the word was established to refer specifically to Jews, nowadays it is also being used in reference to other Semetic groups.

The only people who use it that way are Arab antisemites who claim that by definition they can't be antisemites, since they are semitic themselves.

 

[Virgil]

The only people who use it that way are Arab antisemites who claim that by definition they can't be antisemites, since they are semitic themselves.

So by your logic, I'm an Arab antisemite?

All I'm saying is that the word is being used in both contexts nowadays, and if you categorically deny one context, confusion may ensue. Read a few of the above posts for proof of this.

 

[isitoveryet]

I would agree with this assessment. Being through med school now, looking back that is possibly the style I would have written in, but now it looks ridiculous. It comes across as somebody trying to sound smart who's really not that smart. Nothing to do with you personally, but if I read this and didn't know the person that's what I would think. Also extremely redundant, you just make the same point over an over apart from the 2 examples. The letter loses its power due the 'trying-to-hard' feel to it. Much written, little said.

Anyway those kinds of situations are terrible to go through. However, you need to be able to. Being a doctor is stressful, you can't make a scene whenever somebody doesn't rub you the right way, or you will be alienated and miserable, already common for the average med student.

Whatever Dr. [interviewer's name removed] intent, I think you made practical miscalculations.
- Acting strongly, and immediately, almost solely fueled by emotion
- Telling the whole world your woes and disparaging your interviewer before you even know the result of your interview
- Coming to judgment about the entire school, after less than one hour experience with a single person

True or not for you, you need to realize that these character traits, are precisely the type of behavior that the general public already laments about Muslims, and precisely character traits that have fueled middle eastern conflict for centuries. You propagate the stereotype in this situation, even though you might be cool as a cucumber when feeling good, and even though your adversary might be completely in the wrong.

Adults are calm and rational. They cool down, think it through, make a plan, and act with caution. They compromise, know when to fight and when to lay it down (even when they're right). These are the kind of people med school wants and should have.

If you're a person of character, you don't need a wordy but ultimately empty verbal defense, your character will speak for itself. One person's ignorance doesn't define you. Think wisely - get into med school, be a success, and show those close to you the person you are, and I think you'll find far more satisfaction in life and career than going toe to toe with someone you will never convince. You stand a far better chance of winning them over by your exemplary performance and attitude than a long-winded sermon to people who don't know you.

I guess martin luther king should have "calmed down" or the allied troops should have "calmed down." You are attacking her writing because you do not have any rebuttals of substance. Are you actually taking the situation and arguing with her word choice? He showed blatant racism and you are worried about the words she used. You are just as bad as him to say that her reaction is classic muslim. AECOM should be publicly disgraced by him because they put him in a public position. As a matter of fact, adcoms from AECOM are probably making these comments because they are seeing that their school is being attacked (and rightly attacked). I would take any insult towards you as an obvious attempt at the school to save its reputation. I am very proud of you! We need doctors like you and this is common from a white male!!!

 

[Cataract]

So it's religiously insensitive???

Sure, if your religion is against it.

Alright, this thread died.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

So by your logic, I'm an Arab antisemite?

All I'm saying is that the word is being used in both contexts nowadays, and if you categorically deny one context, confusion may ensue. Read a few of the above posts for proof of this.

The above posts show one person who was confused by the use of the term.

 

[armybound]

I guess martin luther king should have "calmed down" or the allied troops should have "calmed down." You are attacking her writing because you do not have any rebuttals of substance. Are you actually taking the situation and arguing with her word choice? He showed blatant racism and you are worried about the words she used. You are just as bad as him to say that her reaction is classic muslim. AECOM should be publicly disgraced by him because they put him in a public position. As a matter of fact, adcoms from AECOM are probably making these comments because they are seeing that their school is being attacked (and rightly attacked). I would take any insult towards you as an obvious attempt at the school to save its reputation. I am very proud of you! We need doctors like you and this is common from a white male!!!

I don't know how you can equate Dr King with someone who was offended by a guy who made some inflammatory remarks about Ramadan.

And the verbage is ridiculous.

 

[Cataract]

I guess martin luther king should have "calmed down" or the allied troops should have "calmed down." You are attacking her writing because you do not have any rebuttals of substance. Are you actually taking the situation and arguing with her word choice? He showed blatant racism and you are worried about the words she used. You are just as bad as him to say that her reaction is classic muslim. AECOM should be publicly disgraced by him because they put him in a public position. As a matter of fact, adcoms from AECOM are probably making these comments because they are seeing that their school is being attacked (and rightly attacked). I would take any insult towards you as an obvious attempt at the school to save its reputation. I am very proud of you! We need doctors like you and this is common from a white male!!!

Seriously?

You're seriously going to hail the flag without question? I've said it before, you can't assume any school always supports the views of an individual person in their staff. He may be the Dean of Diversity, but anyone could conceal their prejudice during hiring. It's a terrible experience for the interviewee, but it's wrong to conclude the entire school is racist. And like armybound said, this is no where near the magnitude of discrimination that Dr. King experienced. This isn't a civil rights movement. Put your battle flag down and be reasonable, jack.

 

[160514]

i don't know how many of you guys applied there, but this thread is going to earn me a pre-interview rejection.

 

[Newsom]

oh please? i think you blew this way out of proportion. Maybe the fact that you went to a jewish founded medical school you went into the interview with your own anti semitic expectations. At every interview there is someone who is going to be an dingus, and you just got to deal with it in a mature matter. Writing a nasty letter to the adcom isnt going to solve anything, and will probably earn you an instant rejection. In the medical world your going to meet patients that are not going to respect your religous views and that is a shame. But you have to learn how to deal with it appropriatley, and by getting overemotional is the wrong way to deal with it. I think they were testing you to see how you would react to a possible patient being anti semtic towards your own views, and although Dr. [interviewer's name removed] was wrong to say the things he did, the fact of the matter is that there are people out there that feel that way, and you have to learn how to deal with it accordingly, obviously that is something you have to work on if you want to interact with people on a regular basis.

Wow? What are you talking about?! Did you even read the OP's letter? She shot down your argument half way through it. 😕

And writing a letter isn't appropriate? Maybe she should have slashed his tires? Would that have been more appropriate. Sure, there are going to be patients who have strong opinions about doctors but they aren't in a position of authority and aren't interviewing candidates for medical school.

She's standing up for herself even if it means jeopardizing a med school acceptance. That's a lot more than most people will do.

 

[sirachsong]

Writing a letter to the school to address the situation, and following it up to ensure action was taken is one thing. Publishing a letter on a pre-medical forum seems a little extreme, especially considering there's no way of knowing what the interviewer's perspective is concerning the matter.

Yeah, what the interviewer did doesn't sound like it was appropriate. But if what actually happened in the interview was somewhat different than this account, posting the physician's name and/or the name of the school may be problematic.

 

[sirachsong]

.

 

[sirachsong]

Wow? What are you talking about?! Did you even read the OP's letter? She shot down your argument half way through it. 😕

And writing a letter isn't appropriate? Maybe she should have slashed his tires? Would that have been more appropriate. Sure, there are going to be patients who have strong opinions about doctors but they aren't in a position of authority and aren't interviewing candidates for medical school.

She's standing up for herself even if it means jeopardizing a med school acceptance. That's a lot more than most people will do.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what the poster was thinking. 🙄

 

[Flopotomist]

I agree with the posters who suggested that this posting is inappropriate. The alleged actions of the interviewer, if true, are repugnant indeed, however to post this letter in public before allowing the school to investigate the matter demonstrates a lack of professionalism.

 

[belichek]

I agree with the posters who suggested that this posting is inappropriate. The alleged actions of the interviewer, if true, are repugnant indeed, however to post this letter in public before allowing the school to investigate the matter demonstrates a lack of professionalism.

So true

 

[belichek]

based on the girls response, I think she dislikes whites and jews, and she went into the interview expecting to be discriminated, and from the onset took a defensive attitude, thereby misinterperting dr. [interviewer's name removed] line of questioning.

 

[MDRus]

based on the girls response, I think this girl dislikes white people and jews, and she went into the interview expecting to be discriminated, and from the onset took a defensive attitude.

the interviewer was African-American.

 

[belichek]

so the person that interviewed her was african american?

 

[MDRus]

yes.

 

[belichek]

when did she say that? I know shes african american/muslim

 

[MDRus]

it came up somewhere in the posts on this thread. why do you care?

 

[belichek]

i searched Dr. [interviewer's name removed]'s Albert Einstien profile and he looks white to me, i think you read wrong

 

[Virgil]

based on the girls response, I think she dislikes whites and jews, and she went into the interview expecting to be discriminated, and from the onset took a defensive attitude, thereby misinterperting dr. [interviewer's name removed] line of questioning.

Erm, based on your posts, I would say you dislike Muslims and/or African Americans. Just as I have little justification for that statement, you have little or no justification for yours.

 

[Picklesali]

based on the girls response, I think this girl dislikes white people and jews, and she went into the interview expecting to be discriminated, and from the onset took a defensive attitude.

Okay... Wow. First the poster who says that the OP is displaying typical muslim behavior because she acted rashly, and now this post that says that she must HATE white people and jews??

Geez... I'm surprised that there are so many people ready to proclaim broad racial generalizations, especially because of the nature of the thread.

You may have an opinion about whether the interviewer was right or wrong. You may have an opinion about whether the OP overreacted or was not professional. You may think that she is an eloquent writer, or an overly verbose complainer. You may even think that she came in with negative expectations. But can we please stop making ridiculous leaps into racial intolerance? Seriously...

 

[LizzyM]

I agree with the posters who suggested that this posting is inappropriate. The alleged actions of the interviewer, if true, are repugnant indeed, however to post this letter in public before allowing the school to investigate the matter demonstrates a lack of professionalism.

I agree but I applaud the OP for making the situation known to the Dean; sometimes an interviewer is inappropriate and behind the closed door of a one-on-one interview no one is the wiser unless an applicant is willing to speak up. In extreme cases, the interviewer may be relieved of that duty once it becomes known that the person is "nuts".

 

[Virgil]

Okay... Wow. First the poster who says that the OP is displaying typical muslim behavior because she acted rashly, and now this post that says that she must HATE white people and jews??

Geez... I'm surprised that there are so many people ready to proclaim broad racial generalizations, especially because of the nature of the thread.

You may have an opinion about whether the interviewer was right or wrong. You may have an opinion about whether the OP overreacted or was not professional. You may think that she is an eloquent writer, or an overly verbose complainer. You may even think that she came in with negative expectations. But can we please stop making ridiculous leaps into racial intolerance? Seriously...

Seconded.

 

[Maxprime]

I couldn't read 4 pages - too much.

But has anyone ever thought that he wanted to see how you'd respond when someone put you in that place? We live in a country of VERY well educated people that have never overreacted to a certain people after a dozen of them did something. Especially considering the type of high-class and accepting people you'll have throw up on you @ 3am as you suture up their head spewing HIV contaminted blood.

Do you really think that someone involved in diversity would last more than 24 hours with such an attitude? If haven't ever been in a purposely hostile interview, then you have now.

I know what you should do. Publicly identify yourself via information given on the web so that when he invariably finds this thread, he sinks you at every school you're applying to because you can't handle somone making fun of you.

If the comments were sincere, then I hope proper action is taken.

 

[sirachsong]

This is getting painful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

 

[jochi1543]

Wow... this thread has degenerated enough and should be closed ASAP.

I personally am dying to hear how AECOM reacts tomorrow.

 

[Maxprime]

I personally am dying to hear how AECOM reacts tomorrow.

I'm picturing it as a student sending the dean a link to the thread and him doing one of those comical coffee sprays all over the monitor.

 

[Virgil]

I personally am dying to hear how AECOM reacts tomorrow.

Me too. How about we all agree to put the silliness on hold (including you, belichek!) until the OP updates us?

 

[Virgil]

I'm picturing it as a student sending the dean a link to the thread and him doing one of those comical coffee sprays all over the monitor.

LOL

 

[belichek]

ok

 

[chespirido]

Back to the letter;
I think it was poorly written, in poor taste to post on a public forum, and a direct attack on a Professor who I would imagine is held in high esteem at the school in which you are accosting.

This is not to say that you shouldnt have written it. You most certainly should address these types of discriminatory actions - do so with the individual himself. Posting on SDN will just piss many ppl off especially those that attend the school. Frequently such remarks are made out of sheer ignorance with no intent to harm, but plenty of room for rectification.

I must agree with Belichek unfortunately; from the tone of your letter, you went into the interview bracing yourself for discrimination from a faculty member in a predominately Jewish-affiliated school. It is only natural that you would be keen to overemphasize (and maybe even misquote) the remarks that would come out of a board-appointed "Dean of Diversity".

Also, you can't write that your a 'double-minority', that is foolish. There are far fewer Jews than Muslims, and even as one, I would never tell a school that I consider myself to be a minority (it denotes a sense of "under-representedness" with regards to medical school).

 

[160514]

Back to the letter;
I think it was poorly written, in poor taste to post on a public forum, and a direct attack on a Professor who I would imagine is held in high esteem at the school in which you are accosting.

This is not to say that you shouldnt have written it. You most certainly should address these types of discriminatory actions - do so with the individual himself. Posting on SDN will just piss many ppl off especially those that attend the school. Frequently such remarks are made out of sheer ignorance with no intent to harm, but plenty of room for rectification.

I must agree with Belichek unfortunately; from the tone of your letter, you went into the interview bracing yourself for discrimination from a faculty member in a predominately Jewish-affiliated school. It is only natural that you would be keen to overemphasize (and maybe even misquote) the remarks that would come out of a board-appointed "Dean of Diversity".

Also, you can't write that your a 'double-minority', that is foolish. There are far fewer Jews than Muslims, and even as one, I would never tell a school that I consider myself to be a minority (it denotes a sense of "under-representedness" with regards to medical school).

oh you drinkin' out of that bowl too?

 

[cameljocke]

Back to the letter;
I think it was poorly written, in poor taste to post on a public forum, and a direct attack on a Professor who I would imagine is held in high esteem at the school in which you are accosting.

This is not to say that you shouldnt have written it. You most certainly should address these types of discriminatory actions - do so with the individual himself. Posting on SDN will just piss many ppl off especially those that attend the school. Frequently such remarks are made out of sheer ignorance with no intent to harm, but plenty of room for rectification.

I must agree with Belichek unfortunately; from the tone of your letter, you went into the interview bracing yourself for discrimination from a faculty member in a predominately Jewish-affiliated school. It is only natural that you would be keen to overemphasize (and maybe even misquote) the remarks that would come out of a board-appointed "Dean of Diversity".

Also, you can't write that your a 'double-minority', that is foolish. There are far fewer Jews than Muslims, and even as one, I would never tell a school that I consider myself to be a minority (it denotes a sense of "under-representedness" with regards to medical school).

Why do you guys insist she went into this looking for a discriminatory action? Even talking about religion is considered inappropriate and too personal in such a professional setting. If he acutally made those comments, it's wrong, ignorant, and borderline discriminatory.

Maybe posting the school and guy's name was wrong, but she didn't go in with bad intentions from what I think.

 

[Kikaku21]

Wow.

I am shocked by the behavior of the interviewer. At the same time, bad move for the OP to publicize this. Making an entire institution look bad is not going to solve any problems--its just going to piss people off.

Its amazing how sensitive people are over religion.

 

[160514]

Back to the letter;
I think it was poorly written, in poor taste to post on a public forum, and a direct attack on a Professor who I would imagine is held in high esteem at the school in which you are accosting.

This is not to say that you shouldnt have written it. You most certainly should address these types of discriminatory actions - do so with the individual himself. Posting on SDN will just piss many ppl off especially those that attend the school. Frequently such remarks are made out of sheer ignorance with no intent to harm, but plenty of room for rectification.

I must agree with Belichek unfortunately; from the tone of your letter, you went into the interview bracing yourself for discrimination from a faculty member in a predominately Jewish-affiliated school. It is only natural that you would be keen to overemphasize (and maybe even misquote) the remarks that would come out of a board-appointed "Dean of Diversity".

Also, you can't write that your a 'double-minority', that is foolish. There are far fewer Jews than Muslims, and even as one, I would never tell a school that I consider myself to be a minority (it denotes a sense of "under-representedness" with regards to medical school).

don't pull a hamstring while you jump on her bandwagon

 

[chespirido]

Its funny how I'm jumping on the bandwagon of one, while there are 30+ people here arguing the exact opposite and touting what a valiant thing such a malicious screed implicates.

 

[VneZonyDostupa]

Its funny how I'm jumping on the bandwagon of one, while there are 30+ people here arguing the exact opposite and touting what a valiant thing such a malicious screed implicates.

Yes, what horrible people we are for believing religious and ethnic discrimination are wrong.

Shun the non-believer!
Shhhhuuuuun!
Shhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnn!

 

[EM84]

Its funny how I'm jumping on the bandwagon of one, while there are 30+ people here arguing the exact opposite and touting what a valiant thing such a malicious screed implicates.

b/c the only one who even suggested a "jewish" connection to this whole debate was belichek, and clearly you bought into such a foolish and insulting idea. Furthermore, you were ignorant enough to say that the OP is not a religious and racial minority, b/c clearly the medical field and this country is dominated by Muslim African-American females, I mean if that isn't three strikes I don't know what is.

You can debate the structure of the complaint (which is still kind of pointless b/c only the OP can really communicate her feelings about the event), but you can't argue that she has a right to be offended.