Guard/Reserves during medical school

[Bmedic]

Currently an active duty Army officer about to ETS to start med school. I didn't get accepted to USUHS and I do not want to do HPSP or MDSSP because I already have a GI Bill to use for school. I have a desire to keep serving but only in a reserve capacity. I am considering transferring to the guard or reserve instead of just getting out but have reservations about the impact that would have on school.

Does anyone know if there's an option to remain in the Reserves as a medical student without the obligation incurred from a scholarship?

If I were to remain in my current AOC I'm afraid the requirments of being a regular line officer wouldn't work well. I'd probably end up in company command at some point during med school and even in the reserves I don't see that working out. I'd really like to be able to work around military physicians for extra mentorship.

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[xffan624]

Currently an active duty Army officer about to ETS to start med school. I didn't get accepted to USUHS and I do not want to do HPSP or MDSSP because I already have a GI Bill to use for school. I have a desire to keep serving but only in a reserve capacity. I am considering transferring to the guard or reserve instead of just getting out but have reservations about the impact that would have on school.

Does anyone know if there's an option to remain in the Reserves as a medical student without the obligation incurred from a scholarship?

If I were to remain in my current AOC I'm afraid the requirments of being a regular line officer wouldn't work well. I'd probably end up in company command at some point during med school and even in the reserves I don't see that working out. I'd really like to be able to work around military physicians for extra mentorship.

Medical school is a full time job and then some. Guard/reserve time would definitely impede that. Say you have a duty weekend before a big exam or when M3 rolls around you will be expected to work some weekends depending on your school schedule and that's not including study hours. Thats not even mentioning the risk of a longer-term deployment that delays graduation. The return on investment of mentorship by military physicians doesn't seem worth the hassle to me but I guess I don't know your specific situation. Do you have to stay in the guard to achieve that?

 

[DMBandFan86]

Not in the reserves, you would have to take a stipend program. Or get out then get back in after med school graduation.

You can look to the NG to see if they will take you as a med student, but dependent on your state and unit. I have heard of people doing that and getting flex drill. It’s a harder route to go through med school however.

 

[armytrainingsir]

Perhaps check into IMA?
Not sure if that would give you the additional access you desire.

Suggest you reach out to HRC for more info.

 

[rottenba]

Speaking specifically for the Army National Guard, I commissioned while in med school and served in the Guard. We are in a small state and the medical unit is in the same town as the armory. The other main site for both the Guard and medical school is only an hour away. There were no significant impacts on studying and school because of drill. We studied while drilling or were released early or otherwise coordinated things. Our commander was fine with the flexible training policy. At that time, I basically used time off between MS3 and MS4 to attend BOLC. For new officers, you would need to take into account the longer currently required Army schools, but it sounds like that would not apply to you. Now 10 years later, we have both an MS1 and an MS2 in the unit who I am coordinate and take care of. Actually there may be 1-3 additional students within the next year. For us, if we have something useful to train or teach (general medicine or army skills or PHAs) then we have them stay or else they can be released to study. One example was training them both in battlefield acupuncture last month. We coordinate with their testing and with off-site rotations. Essentially if you have a good medical unit and either commander or good state surgeon/medical leadership, they will take very good care of med students in the Guard. They want you to remain in the Guard and in that state when you eventually finish residency and are a medical asset. By policy you are non-deployable in medical school (as long as you change to the standard MOS and standard as a student) and in residency you must volunteer to deploy. MDSSP and STRAP (in residency) are both optional programs, so you should not have any additional service obligation. I would confirm that with a medical recruiter since the most common situation is a direct commission with the standard service obligation associated.

 

[DMBandFan86]

The bigger question is why would you really want to do it? Just for retirement years? The pay is not great for a drill weekend.

I liked when you said “and in residency you must volunteer to deploy.” Also think about how residency will go with drill and your work obligations, you likely won’t have flex drill then and have to go to AT.

 

[rottenba]

The bigger question is why would you really want to do it? Just for retirement years? The pay is not great for a drill weekend.

I liked when you said “and in residency you must volunteer to deploy.” Also think about how residency will go with drill and your work obligations, you likely won’t have flex drill then and have to go to AT.

Yes always keep the larger goals in mind. There are plenty of con's to drilling 4 years of med school and 3+ of residency. As was mentioned, drill pay is a minimal benefit. It seems that most Guard/Reserve members historically are coordinating to get 20 years for retirement (at least for the legacy system which doesn't matter for the blended system). Personally I enjoyed what we did when drilling, a few opportunities unique to being in the Guard and simply wanting to serve.

Residency is definitely more of a mixed experience and tends to have more variability (obligations, flexible training, using vacation/leave to attend drill). There is more of a chance of a negative experience but a relaxing drill weekend was a nice change of pace at times. Waking up at 0400 instead of 0500 during inpatient rotations just so I could get a run and PT in before an APFT was miserable. However there are numerous current residents with understanding program directors and company commanders who manage both obligations easily.

 

[Saddleshoes]

My Air Guard Unit had a number of med students over the years. Our base had one med school 5 miles from the front gate and another 60 miles away. These Med students tended to be "home grown" i.e. they did their undergrad work while in the Air Guard then moved to the medical unit when they got into Med School. Most left us when they when off to do their residency. We would assign them medical administration duties such as training records, credentialing, medical records auditing and the like. As they advanced in their med training, we would let them do more and more clinical stuff.

An Air Guard unit would love to have a line officer/med student. The commanders in an Air Guard unit would likely arrange things to make it work for you.

Good Luck to you! I hope it all works put.

 

[TheEarDoc]

I would just say no on the guard/reserves while in med school. Focus on med school and since you have your GI Bill enjoy the financial freedom others will not have. When you finish then you can commission again on your terms.

I would not count on getting a "cool" commander who is OK with you being on the roster and not attending BA/drill weekends.

 

[HVWebster]

Here's another thought - would have guard/reserve status listed anywhere on ERAS be something that gets your application tossed in the dumpster due to possible mobilization?

 

[DeadCactus]

It's been done but it's not always available. Availability in Guard is going to be state dependent. Experience in both are going to be unit dependent. I've seen everything from sit in a corner and study during drill to being made a platoon leader. Best option is to talk to people in the unit you would be joining; both current medical students and current leadership. The same applies during residency. It's a doable commitment but it can be a stressor at times.

I've never gotten the impression it's an issue for residency applications. Most people don't understand enough to be concerned and the ones who do understand tend to value it. If asked, I just told people I'd have to use some of my days off for military obligations but that the military is invested in me finishing my specialty training because I'm of minimal value ot them as a resident. Some specialties may be more averse than others, I don't know.

 

[mudderMD]

I have been drilling in the Air Guard throughout my fellowship. My commander let me do quarterly drill, or make up drill dates whenever I could squeeze it into my schedule. If you really want to do it, its possible.

 

[el mero mero]

i drilled during medical school then did strap/hplr for residency. I was AD USAF then was USAFR for 4 years. switched to army to get strap/hplr concurrently.
its really dependent on your AOC and unit.
you could always give it a shot then go IRR if it's not a good fit as i dont believe your would incur any commitment

 

[TheEarDoc]

i drilled during medical school then did strap/hplr for residency. I was AD USAF then was USAFR for 4 years. switched to army to get strap/hplr concurrently.
its really dependent on your AOC and unit.
you could always give it a shot then go IRR if it's not a good fit as i dont believe your would incur any commitment

They can't just go IRR if it's not a good fit if they sign a contract for non-medical.

The whole thing will depend on their commander. Commanders change frequently in some units they get new commander every 6-12 months so I wouldn't bank on the commander just being ok with a soldier not being there for everything.

 

[el mero mero]

They can't just go IRR if it's not a good fit if they sign a contract for non-medical.

The whole thing will depend on their commander. Commanders change frequently in some units they get new commander every 6-12 months so I wouldn't bank on the commander just being ok with a soldier not being there for everything.

what contract are you referring to?
officers can incur committments but if the the officer in question already did their initial service committment tranferring to the reserve does not in a new contract.

 

[TheEarDoc]

what contract are you referring to?
officers can incur committments but if the the officer in question already did their initial service committment tranferring to the reserve does not in a new contract.

Even joining the reserves everyone signs a contract regardless of benefits/bonuses/etc. to begin service to my knowledge?

 

[el mero mero]

Even joining the reserves everyone signs a contract regardless of benefits/bonuses/etc. to begin service to my knowledge

all AD officers have a MSO (Military service obligation) and an ADSO (active duty service obligation).
if officers dont go into traditional reserves after their ADSO they become IRR until their MSO is up.
you're correct that everyone has a contract.... but this Soldier already has a contract and I doubt he'd need another one.

 

[Butterbar]

I was an infantry CPT when I ETS'd. Got into med school a few months later. In med school, decided to join the Guard. Started as infantry but the time commitment of med school was too much to be able to accept command so switched to med services as a med student. It's virtually impossible to get 4-5 days off completely to certify a team live fire, for example. In med school, you can typically request to get 1-2 days off at a time to go to weddings or whatever but more than that would probably be an issue.

The infantry unit was extremely understanding and I was upfront about the fact that it might not work out but I was willing to try if they were, so ultimately they were supportive of me transferring. I looked into reserves when I looked into transferring as well and they said they don't accept med students, only physicians.

If your mos wasn't medical your time only counts 1/2 towards promotion so I was a 1LT again (not a huge deal). Was told by the Guard med unit I didn't have to go to drill and could just split-train indefinitely. Fast forward 8 months and the new commander told me to get bent and that I had to go to drill. I had already finished my initial 8-year obligation from AD and felt pretty disrespected/disappointed so I resigned (hadn't taken any incentives--was only in the Guard because I liked serving).

If you're looking at the Guard to pay for school, look into voc rehab instead if you have a disability rating. It doesn't draw from your GI Bill so you can subsequently use GI Bill for BAH during residency. If you're looking to serve your community, there are so many options as a physician (or even as a med student) that don't require you to maintain competing priorities. Volunteering at free clinics, doing research, educating med students, mentoring premed students, etc. that will look good on residency applications anyways.

Only do Guard if you are cool with the fact that they could change their mind about anything at any time and deploy you/make you go wherever they want whenever they feel like it. Or if you truly need the health insurance (but schools usually have health insurance for you/your family anyways so not a huge advantage--not sure about gi bill but if you use voc rehab they will pay for this). For me it was like pulling teeth in the Guard to get anything done admin-wise, so consider that as well (it's not like AD where you can just walk to S1 and ask a question to get your pay or whatever else corrected). Just lots of unnecessary stressors during an already-stressful period of your life.

I'm glad I gave it a shot because I would've always wondered, but am even more glad that I got out (again) and hope others will learn from my experience. I mentor quite a few folks going to med school from AD so hmu if you want to talk more

 

[Saddleshoes]

I was an infantry CPT when I ETS'd. Got into med school a few months later. In med school, decided to join the Guard. Started as infantry but the time commitment of med school was too much to be able to accept command so switched to med services as a med student. It's virtually impossible to get 4-5 days off completely to certify a team live fire, for example. In med school, you can typically request to get 1-2 days off at a time to go to weddings or whatever but more than that would probably be an issue.

The infantry unit was extremely understanding and I was upfront about the fact that it might not work out but I was willing to try if they were, so ultimately they were supportive of me transferring. I looked into reserves when I looked into transferring as well and they said they don't accept med students, only physicians.

If your mos wasn't medical your time only counts 1/2 towards promotion so I was a 1LT again (not a huge deal). Was told by the Guard med unit I didn't have to go to drill and could just split-train indefinitely. Fast forward 8 months and the new commander told me to get bent and that I had to go to drill. I had already finished my initial 8-year obligation from AD and felt pretty disrespected/disappointed so I resigned (hadn't taken any incentives--was only in the Guard because I liked serving).

If you're looking at the Guard to pay for school, look into voc rehab instead if you have a disability rating. It doesn't draw from your GI Bill so you can subsequently use GI Bill for BAH during residency. If you're looking to serve your community, there are so many options as a physician (or even as a med student) that don't require you to maintain competing priorities. Volunteering at free clinics, doing research, educating med students, mentoring premed students, etc. that will look good on residency applications anyways.

Only do Guard if you are cool with the fact that they could change their mind about anything at any time and deploy you/make you go wherever they want whenever they feel like it. Or if you truly need the health insurance (but schools usually have health insurance for you/your family anyways so not a huge advantage--not sure about gi bill but if you use voc rehab they will pay for this). For me it was like pulling teeth in the Guard to get anything done admin-wise, so consider that as well (it's not like AD where you can just walk to S1 and ask a question to get your pay or whatever else corrected). Just lots of unnecessary stressors during an already-stressful period of your life.

I'm glad I gave it a shot because I would've always wondered, but am even more glad that I got out (again) and hope others will learn from my experience. I mentor quite a few folks going to med school from AD so hmu if you want to talk more

Your story may have been much more positive had you signed up with the Air Guard.

 

[Butterbar]

Your story may have been much more positive had you signed up with the Air Guard.

Based on what others have told me about Air Guard, I agree!