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I wasn't.
Gunners in medical school
Started by rodmichael82
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I wasn't.
Also, to get back on topic, I agree with L2D. Gunner literally refers to classmates who are willing to "gun you down" to save themselves. They are almost universally middle-of-the-road, average-ish performing medical students.
That's not to say that a bunch of ill-informed premed and med students haven't bastardized the term. Just as the majority of people misuse "ironic" or "literally", many students frequently misuse "gunner" to refer to someone towards the top of the class, or someone who works hard.
Make no mistake about it, gunner is not an endearing term, and it is reserved for those people who would rather get ahead by seeing others fail than by their own merits.
That's not to say that a bunch of ill-informed premed and med students haven't bastardized the term. Just as the majority of people misuse "ironic" or "literally", many students frequently misuse "gunner" to refer to someone towards the top of the class, or someone who works hard.
Make no mistake about it, gunner is not an endearing term, and it is reserved for those people who would rather get ahead by seeing others fail than by their own merits.
somebody i know had a gunner in their class. this gunner used to hog all the professors during anatomy lab so nobody else could ask questions. this gunner used to stock pile study guides from the 2nd years without sharing them with anybody else. this gunner used to try to correct you when being pimped by professors (even though the gunner was wrong 75% of the time).
my friend thought this gunner was really smart...but it turns out the gunner ended up failing anatomy and was dismissed from my friend's school.
just remember: gunners get gunned.
help your classmates out...don't be a dick head.
my friend thought this gunner was really smart...but it turns out the gunner ended up failing anatomy and was dismissed from my friend's school.
just remember: gunners get gunned.
help your classmates out...don't be a dick head.
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Those are good examples -- showing you up during pimping on rounds in particular is often where you really see the gunners come out of the woodwork for the first time.
And gunnerism is not just limited to med school, when I was in law school we had a guy who used to tear pages out of books on reserve in the library so other people couldn't finish the assignments.
Gunners, the ones who think med school is a competition and make themselves look better while making others look bad, are toxic. Don't ever try to make your classmates look bad. Ever. Remember, med school is not even close to a competition. Collaborate with your colleagues. After all, everyone is on the same path. When you move on to residency, you want to be the person that helps everyone in a heartbeat instead of throwing them under the bus.
as you progress in medical education I think it becomes apparent that gunnerism is really just the academic manifestation of an underlying personality disorder.
teamwork, social interaction, communication, and overall likability are far more important to success in clinical medicine than relatively meaningless measures of objective test/academic performance.
It is a very poor decision for someone to do truly gunnerish things as listed above. the sort of thing the frontal lobe has been inhibiting for the sake of social betterment for hundreds of thousands of years..
teamwork, social interaction, communication, and overall likability are far more important to success in clinical medicine than relatively meaningless measures of objective test/academic performance.
It is a very poor decision for someone to do truly gunnerish things as listed above. the sort of thing the frontal lobe has been inhibiting for the sake of social betterment for hundreds of thousands of years..
From my perspective, this is very easy behavior to spot on rounds. It does not go over well on their evaluations. Medicine is a team sport.
I'm not saying it's a particularly wise move by the gunners, just that if your goal is to try and undermine others this tends to be a very low hanging fruit, and this tends to be where they come out of the woodwork. But in my experience most attendings still will focus on the guy who didn't get the answer than the guy who undermined him when doing their evaluations. At best both will get crummy evaluations.
Trying to make hard work and intelligence look bad by referring to it as gunnerism is one of the oldest and subtlest gunner tricks.
Also, to get back on topic, I agree with L2D. Gunner literally refers to classmates who are willing to "gun you down" to save themselves. They are almost universally middle-of-the-road, average-ish performing medical students.
Does it "literally" refer or does it refer to classmates who are willing to "literally" gun you down? Oh my.
I'm sure you know this, but there will always be the "one-uppers" where ever you go.
"Oh you got a 90% on that test? I got a 92%"
"Oh you saw ____ procedure? I saw that five times already and my attending let me do it myself."
This all stems from immaturity. I got sick of it my first two years real quick (since I studied at school and kept running into these toxic people). You learn who these one-uppers are, and you learn to avoid them.
mind blown! That's a good point, I never thought about it like that! Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
"To Catch a Gunner" by Vanderbilt SOM.....hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1RljIyVLQI&feature=watch-vrec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1RljIyVLQI&feature=watch-vrec
How we roll:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=14404604#post14404604
Everyone that's studied anything in healthcare knows a gunner when they see one.
Gunners get sniped, it's just a matter of time.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=14404604#post14404604
Everyone that's studied anything in healthcare knows a gunner when they see one.
Gunners get sniped, it's just a matter of time.
Hmm... then that's an evaluator issue. Sure, I notice that the person I asked didn't know the answer; but then again I don't expect everyone to be able to answer all of the questions. However, if I see another med student sniping during rounds I make a mental note of that as well. The first medical student gets "read up on patients with conditions you are unfamiliar with". The second medical student gets "don't throw your teammates under the bus".
This is how many students at my medical school behaved. After spending a small amount of time with them Id start to notice how they constantly contradicted themselves and would have inconsistencies in what they said they did for studying (IE lying). Interestingly, I think they were confused as to why I started acting aloof towards them or in some cases started even outright ignoring them.
Did this amount to any negative repercussions from them?
Not sure what you mean exactly, but not aware of any negative repercussions.
I'm assuming they dont try to escalate with you and just move onto someone else. Depending on their personality and ego, I can see this being a reaction.
Based off what he said, Guillemot stopped talking to them. At most, they talk **** about him behind his back (if they have any friends to do that with). No one is going to "escalate with you" if you just stop talking to them. At least not most sane medical students.
Its a shame people can't be humble and happy with themselves. I would concur that if you just ignore them you will save yourself some trouble for the rest of the day. (on the other hand they might be a good laugh for you...)
Just stay clear from those people and worry about yourself. I do. You will go crazy. I befriended one a few days before the semester started. When her gunner characteristics seeped through, I ended the friendship quickly because she was way too toxic. Her constant lying, bragging, whining, negativity, opportunist, and argumentative ways was enough to make me puke.
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Um no. This sums up what we are saying the word "gunner" actually DOESN'T mean. It isn't the overachiever sitting in the front row and spending the night studying physiology. It's the guy who undermines his classmates in hopes he can climb up the curve on their short fallings. As a result it tends to be people not at the top of the class because then you really can't step on anyone to move up. The word gunner is a pejorative, not a compliment. Nobody is going to make songs about actual gunners.
I know what you're saying, but it's natural for words to change meaning or add a meaning over time. The new added definition took hold on the general med student population. The new definition being an overachieving (or making themselves seem like they are as OP stated) douche.
If you think of it, it still somewhat fits the original definition. At some points in school it's kindof hard to not get down on yourself when someone shows off their knowledge of something you should be knowing.
If you think of it, it still somewhat fits the original definition. At some points in school it's kindof hard to not get down on yourself when someone shows off their knowledge of something you should be knowing.
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That should be an impetus for you to try harder, rather than for you to get down on someone who is doing what they're supposed to do
it depends on how they show it though. if someone (like an attending) asks you a question and they answer it for you, that's douchey. if they're telling someone who wants to know, that's normal
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I see gunners wanting to show off their knowledge to a lot of people. I've seen someone post their grades on Facebook (mind you, most of our cloass doesn't share grades). I'm sure they will bring at least one person down who doesn't use it as an impetus to try harder, which is what they want.
If seeing someone doing better than you brings you down, you might as well drop out of medicine. Or just get that sand out of your vagina.
I don't like the changing of the word gunner because gunner is a pejorative. And by calling everybody who works hard "gunners", you create a culture where hard work and achievement is something to be ashamed of.
I use the word gunner for douches. Not for overachieving douches. Achievement has nothing to do with it. The worst gunners I have ever come across are usually compensating for their **** grades.
Srsly guys, I tried to maintain this argument when I first joined SDN. The word's definition has changed amongst the newer medical students, and even people in my class. Even I have at times told a friend who wasn't coming to get beers with us (and was instead studying for an exam 4 weeks away) a gunner. It's fun to call someone a gunner, and it's much easier when you use a bastardized definition of it.
Yes it's wrong, but it feels so right
Vent away, but there really is no other point to this thread.
You have all the resources you need to succeed, including this forum. There will always be people who try to get ahead by pulling others down. It's a part of life and most people need to learn how to deal with it.
You have all the resources you need to succeed, including this forum. There will always be people who try to get ahead by pulling others down. It's a part of life and most people need to learn how to deal with it.
That culture already occurs at the high school/college level, where people get HIGHLY mocked and ridiculed for working hard and being an "overachiever with no life".
Like others said, there is a huge difference between someone who is living in the library 12 hours a day who hasn't seen the outside vs. the douche who actually think med school is a cut-throat competition. The latter needs to relax, and realize it's only med school, not a competition in any way, shape or form!
This. However, I have seen some of the reverse gunnerism, where a student who studies less and is unhappy about their performance, sees a high-achieving and praised student and tries to bring them down, making fun of them for studying, or even suggesting they not answer questions so "others can answer them wrong."
Some truth here, but no one should be hating on hard work. If you can study 18 or 19 hours a day to make your A's, I am impressed. I sure as heck can't do that. If anyone calls you a gunner for working hard they are either misusing the term or they are insecure.
And this thread makes me happy about my choice of school because this sort of stuff is very rare.
But the meaning hasn't changed. People are just throwing it around much the same as you might taunt someone you disagree with by calling them a "fascist". You don't actually believe they ascribe to this political doctrine and by using the word on them you aren't changing what fascism means. In the end it's just a taunt, a bastardization without any new meaning. It's really the same thing when you taunt an overachiever by calling them a "gunner". Again you are just taunting and don't really mean they are underhanded jerks, but that's still what the word means.
I guess you really just haven't watched like 50 medical parodies from different med schools on youtube which clearly suggest this latest generation of med students uses the term "gunner" in a completely different way.
I've seen them. Not persuasive. That 50 med students put misinformation on youtube doesn't mean much. Maybe it's suggestive that things have changed but maybe not -- too little data even if its prominently placed. There are 17,000 US allo med school grads each year and a total of several hundred thousand med school grads out there, most of whom don't put things on YouTube, and their usage of the term is what matters in defining it. A few you tube posts doesn't change the language any more than a few rap stars who butcher the English language on their YouTube posts change the language.
tryhard nerds have been ridiculed from birth in the US
it isn't enough to do well, but you have to make it look effortless
True. The people at the very top will make others feel secure in light of their inadequacies.
How to spot a gunner in three easy steps -
a) Throw a group study at X location and don't invite said person (and not inviting anyone at all, actually). Watch what happens.
b) Watch said person's reaction to jokes/leisurely conversations during rounds or rotations. They're the ones who are about to have a stroke b/c they think they should be doing something else or laugh at anything the attending says.
c) Lie. Lie about your performance in class/step 1/shelf exams. Lie about how much you study/resources you have. They're the ones that try to one-up you.
If you're feeling particularly daring - lie and say you're applying for a research position at X department during first year.
They come out of the woodwork like roaches during fumigation.
a) Throw a group study at X location and don't invite said person (and not inviting anyone at all, actually). Watch what happens.
b) Watch said person's reaction to jokes/leisurely conversations during rounds or rotations. They're the ones who are about to have a stroke b/c they think they should be doing something else or laugh at anything the attending says.
c) Lie. Lie about your performance in class/step 1/shelf exams. Lie about how much you study/resources you have. They're the ones that try to one-up you.
If you're feeling particularly daring - lie and say you're applying for a research position at X department during first year.
They come out of the woodwork like roaches during fumigation.
you do realize that if you do this you are walking a very fine line between flushing out gunners and actually being one. Lying for personal advantage (ie trying to stress out someone you are competing against for grades) is actually a tried and true component of gunnerism. You have met the enemy and it is you.
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Depends on motive according to Law2doc. 🙂
If you genuinely just want to be learning more stuff and don't feel like sitting around eating food instead...how could that be wrong?
That's just working harder than you. Not Gunning. If, however, they were talking you down during this time or making your life harder on purpose, that would be Gunning.
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Precisely.
After rotating on a surgical subspecialty I have encountered the biggest gunner of them all: The Visiting 4th Year
