Gunners in medical school

[rodmichael82]

I know this is something childish but it's been really bothering me. In my medical school I've run into a bunch of students that will out of the blue start telling me that they hardly study for exams and score really high. It's just really awkward for me because I'm not the type of person that talks about grades.

I can give you a couple examples. One of my classmate studies in the library and I've seen him there all the time with me. Yet he walks around telling others oh yeah I studied one day for the exam and got a 98 % and I'm just amazed by how people are willing to lie just to make themselves feel superior or put others down. I just don't understand what productive cause would lead this student to lie about stuff like that.

Another example from a classmate of mine told me he has not even started studying for an exam at all. He said he had not listened to a single lecture or taken down any notes. Yet while he was showing me something in his notebook from the previous exam he accidentally opened the wrong notebook where he had tons of notes written on almost every lecture. As soon as those pages came up at first he lied and said he borrowed the notebook from a friend when the pages and the notebook clearly had his name on it. Then he proceeded to slam his notebook shut, pretended to have an emergency and got up and left.

Another example from a classmate of mine was when I told him that I had to study all week and still didn't really understand the material. He started laughing and saying stuff like, "come on man you don't need to study that much I hardly study a day or two and have everything memorized. You're just trying way too hard take it easy". How am I trying too hard when I'm studying daily and still not getting the material? lol

Is this a common thing in most medical schools? This type of behavior is not just disturbing but it's sickening. I feel like all the cut throat gunners in undergrad just come to medical school and want to persist with their attitude of being like I'm the best.

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[D elegans]

Two points.

1. These people are lying. They will annoy you and everyone else.
2. You need to not worry about how others study. Focus on yourself. It may seem like other people are doing things better than you but if you are doing well that's all that matters.

 

[Bangersandmash]

What if there were people who actually did barely study and still did well? Are you more bothered by the lying or the prospect that some people can do well with minimal studying?

Either way, who cares what everyone else does. Do what you need to do.

 

[def1]

My advice: Stop caring so much about what others do.

 

[rodmichael82]

The point is that if someone studies an hour or two and gets a 100 % that great good for them. Just don't come up to me and start telling me about how many hours you study or what grades you get when I didn't ask you.

 

[Southplains]

What if there were people who actually did barely study and still did well? Are you more bothered by the lying or the prospect that some people can do well with minimal studying?

Either way, who cares what everyone else does. Do what you need to do.

While I do believe there are those out there who can and do put in minimal work and get through a medical school course with excellent marks, this minimal work would still require at least a couple days of full cramming just to read through it all once and a near, if not literal, photographic memory. The volume of info is just really large, and the normal intelligent individual absolutely has to rely on repetition and put it in long term storage to hold on to it all.

Also, there is a vibe of this mentality at my school, but I've also got the general feel that most everyone is not like this, and will readily spread resources they think would be helpful. Like seriously our class facebook group blows up every day with random crap, and I look at almost none of it, but it's the thought that counts. It's one thing I really like about my school and I do think that this element can vary.

 

[Umyo]

What if there were people who actually did barely study and still did well? Are you more bothered by the lying or the prospect that some people can do well with minimal studying?

Either way, who cares what everyone else does. Do what you need to do.

He states that he sees that they are clearly lying.

 

[Etorphine]

.

 

[rodmichael82]

I was one of those people once. It stems from the phrase "damned if you do, damned if you don't," in that you will be called a gunner if you are truthful and study too much and are seen working constantly, and likewise, you will be called a gunner if you say you don't study at all. There is no winning solution if you're trying to internalize the material (f#$@ me for trying to be a good doctor, right?). I think it in part stems from a bastardization of the original definition of the term "gunner," as well as a psychological defense mechanism of others, who have some inkling notion that it reflects poorly on themselves when they see others studying and they're not; their first instinct is to instead judge them as bad people. Now when I hear the phrase gunner from someone, I just think they've thought about it very superficially.

In truth, I think a lot of times, there aren't hundreds of "gunners" out to get you in your school, just a lot of people trying their hardest to learn material so they don't one day accidentally kill their patients.

I completely respect that. There's nothing wrong with working hard and there's nothing wrong with trying your best to learn the material. I don't think someone working hard is a gunner. I do think someone is a gunner when they go out of their way to make you feel like you study too much or make you feel like you're not as smart as them when not only do you know they are lying but you've seen it with your own eyes. In the end we are all in medical school to become physicians and to eventually help our patients not to have an unhealthy competition. What exactly are any of us going to achieve from someone telling me not to study too much or claiming they studied 1 day for a bacteriology exam in Micro and scored the highest in the class which you know is complete BS. I mean even if what I saw was a completely delusional dream and it's true why the hell are they running around bragging about it like annoying pests.

I was never around people with this attitude in undergrad or any of my past jobs. I've mostly experienced this in medical school and that's about it.

 

[Anastomoses]

Eh, I know the type you're talking about. They do the whole "medicine ain't a thang" schtick. I find them silly and worthless to my experience.

But most people don't like my type either - the always talking about classes and details of the material, what i thought was complicated/cool to learn and what I'm gonna study this evening and asking others what they are gonna study this evening. People seem to find that annoying as well.

gunners gonna gun.

 

[notbobtrustme]

What if there were people who actually did barely study and still did well? Are you more bothered by the lying or the prospect that some people can do well with minimal studying?

Either way, who cares what everyone else does. Do what you need to do.

kudos to them then. There was a test last year that I didn't get to study much for and it absolutely rocked my face off.

 

[pageantry]

tl;dr

A person's ability to lie, cheat, dope, brag, and belittle their way through med school is not an indication of long term success in life.

Just let their immaturity teach you how to be a better person. Study after study shows that in the long haul hard work beats even genuine savantry--every time.

 

[Moose A Moose]

Stop being so f ucking cordial. Call them out on it and make them feel like less of a person. Speak your mind to them. You don't need to be friends with everyone and you don't owe them anything.

 

[Kahreek]

House first episode: everybody lies.
C'mon you are a med student now, material like this is expected to be already studied and very solid in your mind by now.

when there are people like those you describe in first post, i start to bull**** too, until they are like "Hey that isnt even true", and i am like "No **** sherlock"

I have to get very sarcastic sometimes.

 

[Koalafied]

tl;dr

A person's ability to lie, cheat, dope, brag, and belittle their way through med school is not an indication of long term success in life.

Just let their immaturity teach you how to be a better person. Study after study shows that in the long haul hard work beats even genuine savantry--every time.

Seems like these individuals are a result of a poor mixture of oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) + conduct disorder (CD) compounded with Type A personality + a lack of love from mommy and daddy.

Kinda reminds me of this:

Eww...

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Stop being so f ucking cordial. Call them out on it and make them feel like less of a person. Speak your mind to them. You don't need to be friends with everyone and you don't owe them anything.

this

 

[evilbooyaa]

If I had people tell me out of the blue how much they didn't study for a test (and did really well on) I'd tell them to **** off. I don't need people like that in my life.

That being said, I don't need people like Anastomoses (asking me what I'm going to study that evening? Wtf, unless we're in a study group why is it your business?) in my life either. At least she realizes that it's annoying.

 

[JJMrK]

I feel like this sort of stuff calms down a lot after the first few months of first year. Just give it some time.

 

[hmockingbird]

If feel like this sort of stuff calms down a lot after the first few months of first year. Just give it some time.

Yeah, they'll calm down and figure out that this isn't the way to make friends or only hang out with other gunners and stop bothering you.

Just say something non-committal like "I'm glad that worked for you", "Well, everyone studies differently!" etc. and then go back to what you were doing or change the subject. If they ask you how you did you can always say that you don't share grades, or something. They'll get the hint after awhile if you don't engage with those types of comments.

 

[rodmichael82]

If feel like this sort of stuff calms down a lot after the first few months of first year. Just give it some time.

I'm in 2nd year which is the sad part. Generally speaking people in my class are nice but some are really annoying.

 

[tiedyeddog]

This is occurs at every school in varying amounts. I try not to talk about study habits or actual grades, it always turns into someone talking about how awesome they are or a pity party.

 

[tiedyeddog]

If feel like this sort of stuff calms down a lot after the first few months of first year. Just give it some time.

Very much agreed.

 

[Akali]

For some reason this double-posted.

 

[Akali]

Stop being so f ucking cordial. Call them out on it and make them feel like less of a person. Speak your mind to them. You don't need to be friends with everyone and you don't owe them anything.

You have the same class for all 4 years. I'm not saying you need to go around kissing everyone's ass, but calling them out on it and making enemies isn't worth it. Should just not talk to those people and ignore them.

I haven't personally had anyone in my class brag about their grades and I don't think any of them really do it, at least not on a significant scale - if they brag to a few of their close friends how would I know? In fact, I've had the opposite experience. The people who we assume are getting the best grades in our class never act arrogant about it. And the people in the year above us who do tutoring for us or have won awards for being at the top of their class, are also humble and pleasant people who actually do a lot to try to help us out. And it hasn't been too uncommon for people to admit they're struggling/barely passing, either.

 

[PrideNeverDie]

sometimes you gotta lie and say you studied more than you did to keep the type A kids from freaking out or going into a deep depression

a lot of these gunners got a negative connotation attached to them during undergrad for studying too much. so in the first year they pretend like they don't study, but eventually everyone figures it out and they stop pretending. no one cares once the **** hits the fan anyways.

 

[benzonase]

Another example from a classmate of mine told me he has not even started studying for an exam at all. He said he had not listened to a single lecture or taken down any notes. Yet while he was showing me something in his notebook from the previous exam he accidentally opened the wrong notebook where he had tons of notes written on almost every lecture. As soon as those pages came up at first he lied and said he borrowed the notebook from a friend when the pages and the notebook clearly had his name on it. Then he proceeded to slam his notebook shut, pretended to have an emergency and got up and left.

Comedy. gold.

 

[gonesurfing]

This happens in every medical school I think. What I used to do is reply with "good for you but I'm not a good memorizer, I like to truly understand the material. This way I will get the 260 I want on Step one". It's fun to watch them squirm in their insecurities and most of them get the oh crap look their face. It usually shuts them up pretty quick. I'm sure someone will say that I'm insecure blah blah, I'm not insecure I just like to eff with gunners back. Cuz they are playing some stupid mind game with you, trying to psyche u out and ruin your confidence, so I play back. I could just walk away but what fun is that? I'm too old to just take **** with out fighting back a lil hehehe

I hate the "don't care about others" speech because 1) never met anyone who truly didn't care about what others thought of them 2) its not that the person cares about what others think, it's that these negative situations are thrown at them unwillingly. Its not like you go up to ppl and ask them if they are studying or not cuz then you are just asking for it. Its more like in passing someone sees you studying and decides chime in. This happened a lot during Step one studying too. Someone would see your first aid and make some obnoxious comment like "oh I already finished that section and memorized everything". I usually reply "oh of course! this is my third pass, I'm just trying to make sure its solid in my head" lol.

During first two years I just stayed away from school because it was such a toxic learning environment. I got streamed lectures at my school...it's really nice.

 

[Anastomoses]

sometimes you gotta lie and say you studied more than you did to keep the type A kids from freaking out or going into a deep depression

a lot of these gunners got a negative connotation attached to them during undergrad for studying too much. so in the first year they pretend like they don't study, but eventually everyone figures it out and they stop pretending. no one cares once the **** hits the fan anyways.

Actually I've had to throw in extra comments sometimes about how hard something seemed or ask a question of a classmate so they could feel I was deferring to their knowledge so I wouldn't come off as such an arrogant ass all the time.

One time a friend scored a point higher than me and I accidentally slipped and said "you...got x score?" and she's like...'whaddaya mean meee?". haha. That was kind of shameless. Hey, at least she had the top score.

 

[username456789]

One time a friend scored a point higher than me and I accidentally slipped and said "you...got x score?" and she's like...'whaddaya mean meee?". haha. That was kind of shameless. Hey, at least she had the top score.

humblebrag.jpg

 

[username456789]

This happens in every medical school I think. What I used to do is reply with "good for you but I'm not a good memorizer, I like to truly understand the material. This way I will get the 260 I want on Step one".

That's not insecure, that's just idiotic.

Well, and also pretty insecure.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm not really sure this exactly fits the definition of "gunner" unless their goal was somehow to break your confidence or make you study less. These people are annoying but not really gunners. A gunner isn't someone who studies hard and does well. A gunner is someone who undermines others in hopes to achieve. More often they are pretty average in grades and study habits, but don't miss an opportunity to undermine someone else.

 

[Anastomoses]

I'm not really sure this exactly fits the definition of "gunner" unless their goal was somehow to break your confidence or make you study less. These people are annoying but not really gunners. A gunner isn't someone who studies hard and does well. A gunner is someone who undermines others in hopes to achieve. More often they are pretty average in grades and study habits, but don't miss an opportunity to undermine someone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrlnh3vebSc

I guess this term has evolved like "douchebag"...nobody seems to really have the same idea on exactly what it means.

 

[Law2Doc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrlnh3vebSc

I guess this term has evolved like "douchebag"...nobody seems to really have the same idea on exactly what it means.

Nah, that people misuse a term doesn't mean the term has evolved in meaning. Plenty of people have called people they don't like "commies" or "fascists" without meaning the sociopolitical connotations. It's just a bastardized use of a word -- it doesn't change the underlying meaning. People incorrectly use "gunner" as the antonym if "slacker" but it still really mean something very different and those that misuse it are simply wrong.

 

[circulus vitios]

There are two possibilities: one, you really did study for x hours, in which case you're a douchebag bragger; two, you lied about studying for x hours, in which case you're a douchebag liar.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Nah, that people misuse a term doesn't mean the term has evolved in meaning. Plenty of people have called people they don't like "commies" or "fascists" without meaning the sociopolitical connotations. It's just a bastardized use of a word -- it doesn't change the underlying meaning. People incorrectly use "gunner" as the antonym if "slacker" but it still really mean something very different and those that misuse it are simply wrong.

I tried fighting this fight when I first joined SDN, but I believe it is a fight that has already been lost. Gunner will no longer solely mean someone who steps on others to get ahead, unfortunately. I personally have included in the definition of gunner one who says they don't study a lot but really do study a lot. Synonym - lying douchebag.

Gunner seems to be going the way of the word 'literally' at this point.

 

[JJMrK]

I'm not really sure this exactly fits the definition of "gunner" unless their goal was somehow to break your confidence or make you study less. These people are annoying but not really gunners. A gunner isn't someone who studies hard and does well. A gunner is someone who undermines others in hopes to achieve. More often they are pretty average in grades and study habits, but don't miss an opportunity to undermine someone else.

I agree that's the traditional meaning, but IMO the word is changing. It seems like on SDN It's becoming interchangeable with "annoying-person-in-my-class-who-also-does-well." At my school, the word basically carries the same meaning as "good student" and is almost a compliment.

 

[yehhhboiii]

I agree that's the traditional meaning, but IMO the word is changing. It seems like on SDN It's becoming interchangeable with "annoying-person-in-my-class-who-also-does-well." At my school, the word basically carries the same meaning as "good student" and is almost a compliment.

you must fight against this evil
gunners are bad and everything about them is bad
we're talking the kids who try their best to undermine others or pretend that they don't study to get others to either not study or disdain those who do

 

[hmockingbird]

I agree that's the traditional meaning, but IMO the word is changing. It seems like on SDN It's becoming interchangeable with "annoying-person-in-my-class-who-also-does-well." At my school, the word basically carries the same meaning as "good student" and is almost a compliment.

That's what it means in my class, basically someone who is overeager and overconcerned with grades to the point of being obnoxious. Kind-of like a Hermione Granger type.

I think that's because there's no one in our class who I could see deliberately undermining anyone else, and I didn't really encounter that in undergrad either. But there are/were plenty who love to talk about how they're in the top 10% of the class, never study, etc. So maybe the true gunners are rare and it just evolved to fit the situation

 

[Southplains]

That's what it means in my class, basically someone who is overeager and overconcerned with grades to the point of being obnoxious. Kind-of like a Hermione Granger type.

I think that's because there's no one in our class who I could see deliberately undermining anyone else, and I didn't really encounter that in undergrad either. But there are/were plenty who love to talk about how they're in the top 10% of the class, never study, etc. So maybe the true gunners are rare and it just evolved to fit the situation

I agree the idea of someone who would actually do something to directly hinder someone else seems so ridiculous. I'm not naive and don't think we're all really good people, but I feel that someone willing to steal another's notes or something like that would also be too worried about being caught and the repercussions to actually do it. Maybe that's because everything is online now and you'd have to really screw someone to hurt their grade.

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree that's the traditional meaning, but IMO the word is changing. It seems like on SDN It's becoming interchangeable with "annoying-person-in-my-class-who-also-does-well." At my school, the word basically carries the same meaning as "good student" and is almost a compliment.

SDN isn't reflective of the real world, and unfortunately sometimes perpetuates a lot of misinformation if left to it's own devices. The reason "gunner" is misused here is because this place is predominated by premeds and early year med students who have yet to get far enough down the road to meet an actual gunner. So they assume the term means someone they have met -- the guy who pretends not to have to study, or the type A study-holic, IR the person who sits up front in class. So they are left with the bastardization. But that doesn't mean they are using it correctly or that this misunderstanding is the dominant usage outside of this board. It's just misused here in this very small pocket of ignorance. They have yet to come across the malignant personality of the gunner so they just assume they know. But let's not pretend that the definition has evolved just because a few people who have never met a gunner want to throw the term around like they own it.

 

[JJMrK]

SDN isn't reflective of the real world, and unfortunately sometimes perpetuates a lot of misinformation if left to it's own devices. The reason "gunner" is misused here is because this place is predominated by premeds and early year med students who have yet to get far enough down the road to meet an actual gunner. So they assume the term means someone they have met -- the guy who pretends not to have to study, or the type A study-holic, IR the person who sits up front in class. So they are left with the bastardization. But that doesn't mean they are using it correctly or that this misunderstanding is the dominant usage outside of this board. It's just misused here in this very small pocket of ignorance. They have yet to come across the malignant personality of the gunner so they just assume they know. But let's not pretend that the definition has evolved just because a few people who have never met a gunner want to throw the term around like they own it.

That's possible. Personally, my own RL experiences make me think it's more a situation of etymological evolution, at least in some areas of the country.

 

[gonesurfing]

That's not insecure, that's just idiotic.

Well, and also pretty insecure.

QUOTE=GuyWhoDoesStuff;14424363]humblebrag.jpg[/QUOTE]

hasnothingnicetosay.org

U are a classic example of the kind of person I like to avoid at school. You have nothing useful to say. U just called me idiotic without knowing anything about me. U also called the following poster a humble brag without knowing them. I just hope you don't pass the same kind of judgement on your patients. I feel sorry for them already.

 

[VisionaryTics]

QUOTE=GuyWhoDoesStuff;14424363]humblebrag.jpg

hasnothingnicetosay.org

U are a classic example of the kind of person I like to avoid at school. You have nothing useful to say. U just called me idiotic without knowing anything about me. U also called the following poster a humble brag without knowing them. I just hope you don't pass the same kind of judgement on your patients. I feel sorry for them already.

lol

 

[Koalafied]

lol

By any chance, do you know how gunners manage the voluminous amounts of literature/texts under constraints e.g. time, emotional, and/or etc. and cope with depth perception needed to be an orthopaedic surgeon; especially those whom possess involuntary bouts of repetitive, non-rhythmic bouts of movements pertaining to the organs of the visual senses?

 

[Anastomoses]

QUOTE=GuyWhoDoesStuff;14424363]humblebrag.jpg
hasnothingnicetosay.org

U are a classic example of the kind of person I like to avoid at school. You have nothing useful to say. U just called me idiotic without knowing anything about me. U also called the following poster a humble brag without knowing them. [

I know, right? I didn't see anything humble about it at all. Furthermore, he was too lazy to find an applicable real photo and just typed the words there. And this same individual who does stuff heckled my surgery thread. Who does that?

 

[username456789]

QUOTE=GuyWhoDoesStuff;14424363]humblebrag.jpg

hasnothingnicetosay.org

U are a classic example of the kind of person I like to avoid at school. You have nothing useful to say. U just called me idiotic without knowing anything about me. U also called the following poster a humble brag without knowing them. I just hope you don't pass the same kind of judgement on your patients. I feel sorry for them already.[/QUOTE]


U lEfT oUt ThA pArT aBoUt Me BeIn' WoRsE dEn HiTlEr.

Also, if you're going to attack someone for passing judgement without getting to know them first, it completely and hilariously undermines your intent when you proceed to do exactly that before you've even finished your thought.

I'll pass your concern on to my patients.

 

[Koalafied]

Alright. What are you sniffing?

Air (O2) ; not (N2O)
Sigh... I felt that user is rather relevant in answering my Q. I should have included "whom innately possess...."

 

[username456789]

And this same individual who does stuff heckled my surgery thread. Who does that?

I know you're joking (or at least, I seriously hope you are), but in case someone mistakes your post for anything other than satire, I would like to point out that I posted exactly twice in that thread.

Once to briefly and emphatically state that experiencing a surgery clerkship is the best way to find out whether or not surgery is right for you, and one to politely help clarify your position to another poster who misread one of your posts.

If you consider any of that heckling, I will mail you a dictionary for your birthday. But I assume you were just being facetious. Right?

 

[Anastomoses]

I know you're joking (or at least, I seriously hope you are), but in case someone mistakes your post for anything other than satire, I would like to point out that I posted exactly twice in that thread.

Once to briefly and emphatically state that experiencing a surgery clerkship is the best way to find out whether or not surgery is right for you, and one to politely help clarify your position to another poster who misread one of your posts.

If you consider any of that heckling, I will mail you a dictionary for your birthday. But I assume you were just being facetious. Right?

Please tell me you were being satirical by linking us to the actual posts. That's...pretty damn funny.

 

[username456789]

Please tell me you were being satirical by linking us to the actual posts. That's...pretty damn funny.

Please tell me you were being satirical about asking me whether I was being satirical about asking whether you were being satirical or not.