Gunners in medical school

[Stellar Clouds]

After rotating on a surgical subspecialty I have encountered the biggest gunner of them all: The Visiting 4th Year

I think you might be confusing biggest gunner with biggest ass kisser.

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[David Hasselhof]

How to spot a gunner in three easy steps -
a) Throw a group study at X location and don't invite said person (and not inviting anyone at all, actually). Watch what happens.
b) Watch said person's reaction to jokes/leisurely conversations during rounds or rotations. They're the ones who are about to have a stroke b/c they think they should be doing something else or laugh at anything the attending says.
c) Lie. Lie about your performance in class/step 1/shelf exams. Lie about how much you study/resources you have. They're the ones that try to one-up you.

If you're feeling particularly daring - lie and say you're applying for a research position at X department during first year.

They come out of the woodwork like roaches during fumigation.

If you do any of the above, then you, my friend, are a gunner.

 

[startswithb]

I think you might be confusing biggest gunner with biggest ass kisser.

haha

If you are a 4th year from another school rotating with 3rd years, maybe try NOT to pimp them on rounds

 

[Stellar Clouds]

haha

If you are a 4th year from another school rotating with 3rd years, maybe try NOT to pimp them on rounds

I stand corrected...that certainly isn't ass kissing. Flexing your mind muscle to prove you know more than 3rd years is not the way to shine during an away. That's a good way to not even get invited for an interview!

 

[Wordead]

haha

If you are a 4th year from another school rotating with 3rd years, maybe try NOT to pimp them on rounds

I don't think that even counts as gunning. What are you gunning random people who aren't even applying with you for? I think that's just douchebaggery.

 

[shibby1111]

Can someone tell me precisely what "pimping" means in the context of rotations/gunning/rounds/etc.?

 

[Brain Bucket]

You forgot the bit where each dept pumps you for secrets so that they can blackmail the other for access to equipment.

 

[Kaustikos]

If you do any of the above, then you, my friend, are a gunner.

Meh. Just like an undercover cop; just because you act like one, doesn't mean you are.

 

[Stellar Clouds]

Can someone tell me precisely what "pimping" means in the context of rotations/gunning/rounds/etc.?

Here is an article describing it.

If anyone else hasn't read this article yet, it's definitely worth a few minutes of your time.

 

[Brain Bucket]

Here is an article describing it.

If anyone else hasn't read this article yet, it's definitely worth a few minutes of your time.

He's joking with the 'protections procedures' -_-. For a second, when he said "(Box)", I thought he actually had some viable ideas.

I did read Brancati's as well: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/gim/_pdf/Pimping_Brancati_JAMA.pdf

 

[EMDO2018]

I don't think I've met many gunners here who come from state schools, most of the gunners here are trads who attended some super competitive private school for undergrad.

 

[Psai]

I don't think I've met many gunners here who come from state schools, most of the gunners here are trads who attended some super competitive private school for undergrad.

dude no one cares
you whine more about your classmates than ark did about bishes

 

[username456789]

I don't think I've met many gunners here who come from state schools, most of the gunners here are trads who attended some super competitive private school for undergrad.

Unless your classmates are actively blocking you from learning (tearing pages out of important books in the library, hacking the computer testing software, moving cadaver pins, etc), there is no reason whastoever to even give the slightest **** about a "gunner" in the preclinical years.

Let them do whatever they do, and you do your own thing.

In third year, sure some peoples' behavior can be pretty grating/terrible, but it's almost never those high achieving rockstars who you mislabeled as "gunners" in first/second year. Almost universally it is the mediocre/middle-of-the-pack students with a huge chip on their shoulder (and/or very unrealistic career aspirations) who you've got to watch out for.

 

[DermViser]

I don't think I've met many gunners here who come from state schools, most of the gunners here are trads who attended some super competitive private school for undergrad.

Ok, I'll bite: What is your definition of gunner and we'll go from there - be honest. And what behaviors do you define as being a gunner?

 

[DermViser]

Unless your classmates are actively blocking you from learning (tearing pages out of important books in the library, hacking the computer testing software, moving cadaver pins, etc), there is no reason whastoever to even give the slightest **** about a "gunner" in the preclinical years.

Let them do whatever they do, and you do your own thing.

In third year, sure some peoples' behavior can be pretty grating/terrible, but it's almost never those high achieving rockstars who you mislabeled as "gunners" in first/second year. Almost universally it is the mediocre/middle-of-the-pack students with a huge chip on their shoulder (and/or very unrealistic career aspirations) who you've got to watch out for.

Except his definition of "gunner" is pretty much someone who does academically well in medical school. It's not what the actual definition of gunner is.

Edit: Oops, saw you already got that.

 

[EMDO2018]

Except his definition of "gunner" is pretty much someone who does academically well in medical school. It's not what the actual definition of gunner is.

Edit: Oops, saw you already got that.

My definition of gunner, somebody who does well academically, while purposely trying to impede others. Also gunners, lie and brag about grades, etc to make you question yourself, they also talk down to other students and take over group projects and try to boss other around. They are the type of people who get As, but nobody wants to be around them. They also suck up to superiors a lot.

 

[username456789]

My definition of gunner, somebody who does well academically, while purposely trying to impede others.

Most gunners are not particularly successful. They spent too much time trying to come up with conniving ways to get ahead illegitimately rather than spending that time studying.

"Doing very well" doesn't make someone a gunner. Actively sabotaging someone does. I imagine your perception (or, rather, misperception) of others' actions are causing you to falsely claim that many of your classmates are "gunners."

 

[sinombre]

I imagine your perception (or, rather, misperception) of others' actions are causing you to falsely claim that many of your classmates are "gunners."

Given his post history, I think this is spot on.

 

[DermViser]

My definition of gunner, somebody who does well academically, while purposely trying to impede others. Also gunners, lie and brag about grades, etc to make you question yourself, they also talk down to other students and take over group projects and try to boss other around. They are the type of people who get As, but nobody wants to be around them. They also suck up to superiors a lot.

What do you mean impede? Do you mean actively sabotage you? In that case yes, that is being a gunner. If not, no they're not a gunner.

Bragging about grades? A douchebag, yes. But, unfortunately, not a gunner. Lying about grades -- I guess that would qualify as just being a douche, but it's not actively sabotaging you - so not a gunner. Most people I know at that stage don't ask eachother's grades anyways.

Talking down to students? You mean calling you stupid or something? Not getting it.

Taking over projects and bossing around? I would probably classify that as being anal retentive, maybe unable to delegate, but not a gunner, as that person's motive is to get a good grade (which benefits everyone in that group assignment). They're just difficult to get along with which will bite them on rotations.

Sucking up to superiors -- I don't know what your definition of sucking up is, but based on your track record it seems to be more an internal labeling with your own perspective rather than person actually sucking up.

 

[DermViser]

Most gunners are not particularly successful. They spent too much time trying to come up with conniving ways to get ahead illegitimately rather than spending that time studying.

"Doing very well" doesn't make someone a gunner. Actively sabotaging someone does. I imagine your perception (or, rather, misperception) of others' actions are causing you to falsely claim that many of your classmates are "gunners."

Agreed. The ones who spend their time gunning -- actively sabotaging others (ripping pages out of books), answering questions for others on rounds, seeing other med students' patients and presenting them, interrupting other students presentations etc. usually are not successful. At least on the wards, they get a stern talking to if their overly aggressive behavior is disrupting the flow of rounds.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Those are good examples -- showing you up during pimping on rounds in particular is often where you really see the gunners come out of the woodwork for the first time.

And gunnerism is not just limited to med school, when I was in law school we had a guy who used to tear pages out of books on reserve in the library so other people couldn't finish the assignments.

That is cold blooded.. And illegal.

 

[DermViser]

That is cold blooded.. And illegal.

As if that would stop a gunner.

 

[Laufcra]

When people ask me how I did on an exam I just leave it arbitrary and say "I did well." If they express that they struggled and didn't do well, then proceed to ask me how I did well, my response is somewhere along the lines of, "I study a sh**ton and have no life." I'm just being honest. There are people who would categorize my activity as being gunnerish/look down on me/condescend, but thats not the way I define gunnerism at all. The people who claim that they barely study and still score 90+ (mostly liars) are the gunners in my book. Also the people who say "just wait 'til next year when we're ranked/graded I'll beat everyone just you watch, but for now p=md" then condescend on me for putting in effort during our P/F M1 year. Even if its true that you're a secret hidden bada** and you actually trash me next year... I don't even give a f***, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Laufcra]

I agree though that the word is thrown around a lot for a lot of different reasons. Maybe it would be better if we all just adopt the "sabotage" definition and be done with it

 

[EMDO2018]

How to catch a gunner, brunette girl almost had a heart attack.

 

[DermViser]

When people ask me how I did on an exam I just leave it arbitrary and say "I did well." If they express that they struggled and didn't do well, then proceed to ask me how I did well, my response is somewhere along the lines of, "I study a sh**ton and have no life." I'm just being honest. There are people who would categorize my activity as being gunnerish/look down on me/condescend, but thats not the way I define gunnerism at all. The people who claim that they barely study and still score 90+ (mostly liars) are the gunners in my book. Also the people who say "just wait 'til next year when we're ranked/graded I'll beat everyone just you watch, but for now p=md" then condescend on me for putting in effort during our P/F M1 year. Even if its true that you're a secret hidden bada** and you actually trash me next year... I don't even give a f***, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Maybe they're just asking for more specific tips if they're having trouble, and would naturally ask you bc you're doing well. Nothing wrong with that. There's a LOT of rationalization in medical school that we all use. It helps with keeping sane and making it thru.

Since you're P/F only in the first year, the main goal should be just to make sure your study method is perfect for you - which you may have to tweak here and there, and you're able to build up stamina to avoid burnout. Maybe get familiar with well-rated review books that work well for you so they're familiar by the time the Step exam comes. An 85 vs. 90 is not that important.

 

[DermViser]

How to catch a gunner, brunette girl almost had a heart attack.

That first email sounded like such a kiss-ass, then I saw the signed name, and remembered he's actually one of the people who actually contributed to the revamping of Vanderbilt's curriculum to Curriculum 2.0 in their Youtube advertisement to students. Make of that what you will.

 

[Laufcra]

Maybe they're just asking for more specific tips if they're having trouble, and would naturally ask you bc you're doing well. Nothing wrong with that. There's a LOT of rationalization in medical school that we all use. It helps with keeping sane and making it thru.

Since you're P/F only in the first year, the main goal should be just to make sure your study method is perfect for you - which you may have to tweak here and there, and you're able to build up stamina to avoid burnout. Maybe get familiar with well-rated review books that work well for you so they're familiar by the time the Step exam comes. An 85 vs. 90 is not that important.

I plan on using First Aid this summer to review/solidify all the first year concepts so hopefully I won't have to spend a whole lot of time on those sections in that month before the step. I also plan on using First Aid heavily throughout second year along with coursework. I also have pathoma/goljan downloaded so I have those options available for next year too.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

When people ask me how I did on an exam I just leave it arbitrary and say "I did well." If they express that they struggled and didn't do well, then proceed to ask me how I did well, my response is somewhere along the lines of, "I study a sh**ton and have no life." I'm just being honest. There are people who would categorize my activity as being gunnerish/look down on me/condescend, but thats not the way I define gunnerism at all. The people who claim that they barely study and still score 90+ (mostly liars) are the gunners in my book. Also the people who say "just wait 'til next year when we're ranked/graded I'll beat everyone just you watch, but for now p=md" then condescend on me for putting in effort during our P/F M1 year. Even if its true that you're a secret hidden bada** and you actually trash me next year... I don't even give a f***, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Interesting.. I am only a sophomore in university, but I am already seeing these egoists coming out of the woodwork. When I was 10 or 11 my stepfather said, "Why don't you just worry about yourself."
That is some of the best advice I have ever received.

 

[DermViser]

Interesting.. I am only a sophomore in university, but I am already seeing these egoists coming out of the woodwork. When I was 10 or 11 my stepfather said, "Why don't you just worry about yourself."
That is some of the best advice I have ever received.

In the end that is all you can really do. I think part of the problem is that gunners (the real ones, not the fake definition ones that are labeled on SDN), can try to play psychological mind games on others and can be sneaky sociopaths on rotations (when residents ask where everyone is and the student says he has no idea, when actually everyone is at a lecture).

The mind games work on some, and it doesn't work on others. Realize they do it as a psychological mind game: "If I tell someone that I didn't study as much, then maybe it wasn't so tiring after all!" They pretty much do it to get a natural high (thinking they were able to convince someone how smart they are). Realize at most schools, grades are criterion referenced (Numerical values for H, HP, P, etc. are already set in advance) vs. norm referenced (H/HP/P or quartile ranges are set after all averages are in),
so other people's performance doesn't affect yours.