harder for Asians to get into med school?

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Its equally hard for asians and caucasians to get in
 
asians are ORM status (over-represented minority). there have been many studies showing that URMs benefit at the expense of ORMs, while not hurting caucasians at all. take what you will from it.
 
:barf:
 
Actually I emailed them about it and they emailed me back. I deleted it but what it was saying is that now it's up to the school. So you want to apply to a medical school that has lower number of asian people then any other. Apply to Uni of Miami. Higher number of URM and you have a chance.
 
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docsqb7.jpg




Th breakdown of our current U.S. Population from Wikipedia:

Whites: 74.7%
Blacks: 12.1%
Asian: 4.3%
Native American: 0.8%
Pacific Islander: 0.1%
Hispanic: 14.5%
Other: 6%
Two or More Races: 1.9%
 
DoctaJay said:
docsqb7.jpg




Th breakdown of our current U.S. Population from Wikipedia:

Whites: 74.7%
Blacks: 12.1%
Asian: 4.3%
Native American: 0.8%
Pacific Islander: 0.1%
Hispanic: 14.5%
Other: 6%
Two or More Races: 1.9%
Click to expand...

I think the figure for asian doctors will increase dramatically in the next few years, seeing as how the MSAR lists a lot of med schools with over 20% of their students being asian.
 
I bet the unknown part has a bunch of asians that didn't want to disclose they were asians.
 
Yes, but the best point of view is to ignore it.
 
Oops.

🙄
 
Who cares...

Asians are smart anyways, so it evens out.... lol
 
i think its the fact that so many apply, that so many will be rejected. so yeah... i guess its just more competition.

But seriously why a question like this, who cares about race, just get good grades and it wont matter for you.
 
And to add some more data to this thread...

In 2006, there were 7,532 Asian applicants and 3,242 matriculants indicating an acceptance rate of 43% which is only slightly lower than the Caucasian rate of 46% especially when you consider that Whites make up the majority of the U.S. population. In addition, the acceptance rates for African Americans is 40% so if anything, Asians have it easier than Caucasians, African Americans, and Latinos. 🙄

Matriculants and Applicants

The racial make-up of doctors should reflect the racial make-up of the U.S. Asians are over-represented in medicine. Deal with it. :meanie:
 
DrPavoreal said:
And to add some more data to this thread...

In 2006, there were 7,532 Asian applicants and 3,242 matriculants indicating an acceptance rate of 43% which is only slightly lower than the Caucasian rate of 46% especially when you consider that Whites make up the majority of the U.S. population. In addition, the acceptance rates for African Americans is 40% so if anything, Asians have it easier than Caucasians, African Americans, and Latinos. 🙄

Matriculants and Applicants

The racial make-up of doctors should reflect the racial make-up of the U.S. Asians are over-represented in medicine. Deal with it. :meanie:
Click to expand...

The acceptance rate doesn't indicate that it is easier for Asians. It just means they have a higher acceptance rate - what you need to look at is the average GPA and MCAT scores for each group.
 
DrPavoreal said:
And to add some more data to this thread...

In 2006, there were 7,532 Asian applicants and 3,242 matriculants indicating an acceptance rate of 43% which is only slightly lower than the Caucasian rate of 46% especially when you consider that Whites make up the majority of the U.S. population. In addition, the acceptance rates for African Americans is 40% so if anything, Asians have it easier than Caucasians, African Americans, and Latinos. 🙄

Matriculants and Applicants

The racial make-up of doctors should reflect the racial make-up of the U.S. Asians are over-represented in medicine. Deal with it. :meanie:
Click to expand...

The acceptance rate means nothing when no data is given on MCAT and GPA scores to compare each group to. Certain Manhattan preschools have acceptance rates in the single digits, and certain medical schools have acceptance rate in the double digits. That does not mean it is easier to get into medical school than preschool.

This is the breakdown of matriculants for 2006 that may give us a better idea of competitiveness by racial breakdown:

White:
PS: 10.2
BS: 10.6
VR: 10.1
Total MCAT: 30.9
sGPA:3.62
GPA: 3.67

Asian:
PS: 10.8
BS: 10.9
VR: 9.8
Total MCAT: 31.5
sGPA:3.60
GPA: 3.66


They breakdown URM into various groups.
Blacks:
PS: 8.1
BS: 8.9
VR: 8.3
Total MCAT: 25.3
sGPA:3.25
GPA: 3.39

Multiple Hispanic:
PS: 9.1
BS: 9.7
VR: 9.1
Total MCAT: 27.9
sGPA:3.42
GPA: 3.52

Other Hispanic:
PS: 9.4
BS: 10.1
VR: 9.3
Total MCAT: 28.8
sGPA:3.43
GPA: 3.54

There were a few other hispanic groups which is not on here.
This is the link to the site: www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm

It seems like being asian means your GPA and MCAT is about the same as Caucasians (MCAT a point higher, GPA a bit lower). Being URM definitely helps in the GPA/MCAT catagory when it comes to med school. The real question is, does this help the medical field or hurt it?
 
NonTradMed said:
The acceptance rate means nothing when no data is given on MCAT and GPA scores to compare each group to. Certain Manhattan preschools have acceptance rates in the single digits, and certain medical schools have acceptance rate in the double digits. That does not mean it is easier to get into medical school than preschool.

This is the breakdown of matriculants for 2006 that may give us a better idea of competitiveness by racial breakdown:

White:
PS: 10.2
BS: 10.6
VR: 10.1
Total MCAT: 30.9
sGPA:3.62
GPA: 3.67

Asian:
PS: 10.8
BS: 10.9
VR: 9.8
Total MCAT: 31.5
sGPA:3.60
GPA: 3.66


They breakdown URM into various groups.
Blacks:
PS: 8.1
BS: 8.9
VR: 8.3
Total MCAT: 25.3
sGPA:3.25
GPA: 3.39

Multiple Hispanic:
PS: 9.1
BS: 9.7
VR: 9.1
Total MCAT: 27.9
sGPA:3.42
GPA: 3.52

Other Hispanic:
PS: 9.4
BS: 10.1
VR: 9.3
Total MCAT: 28.8
sGPA:3.43
GPA: 3.54

There were a few other hispanic groups which is not on here.
This is the link to the site: www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm

It seems like being asian means your GPA and MCAT is about the same as Caucasians (MCAT a point higher, GPA a bit lower). Being URM definitely helps in the GPA/MCAT catagory when it comes to med school. The real question is, does this help the medical field or hurt it?
Click to expand...

Most people are not complaining about it being easier to "get in". Most people are really complaining about it being easier to get in at a more "competitive" school.

I'd say, quit your whining. Life is full of **** you'll just have to deal with.
 
TheRealMD said:
Most people are not complaining about it being easier to "get in". Most people are really complaining about it being easier to get in at a more "competitive" school.

I'd say, quit your whining. Life is full of **** you'll just have to deal with.
Click to expand...

I don't know who the 'most people' you are referring to but the OP was asking if it was harder for Asians to get into med school or not. He/She did not specify about the competitive nature of the program. I was giving out data that showed where Asians stand in terms of numbers to get into med school. And I'm not sure if you were referring to me, but I was not "whining" about getting into medical school as an Asian. 😕
 
NonTradMed said:
The acceptance rate means nothing when no data is given on MCAT and GPA scores to compare each group to. Certain Manhattan preschools have acceptance rates in the single digits, and certain medical schools have acceptance rate in the double digits. That does not mean it is easier to get into medical school than preschool.

This is the breakdown of matriculants for 2006 that may give us a better idea of competitiveness by racial breakdown:

White:
PS: 10.2
BS: 10.6
VR: 10.1
Total MCAT: 30.9
sGPA:3.62
GPA: 3.67

Asian:
PS: 10.8
BS: 10.9
VR: 9.8
Total MCAT: 31.5
sGPA:3.60
GPA: 3.66


They breakdown URM into various groups.
Blacks:
PS: 8.1
BS: 8.9
VR: 8.3
Total MCAT: 25.3
sGPA:3.25
GPA: 3.39

Multiple Hispanic:
PS: 9.1
BS: 9.7
VR: 9.1
Total MCAT: 27.9
sGPA:3.42
GPA: 3.52

Other Hispanic:
PS: 9.4
BS: 10.1
VR: 9.3
Total MCAT: 28.8
sGPA:3.43
GPA: 3.54

There were a few other hispanic groups which is not on here.
This is the link to the site: www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm

It seems like being asian means your GPA and MCAT is about the same as Caucasians (MCAT a point higher, GPA a bit lower). Being URM definitely helps in the GPA/MCAT catagory when it comes to med school. The real question is, does this help the medical field or hurt it?
Click to expand...
What that data doesn't show are the schools that cater mostly to people of color. Howard, Morehouse, Meharry, Drew, Ponce etc. Those schools, except for Drew, typically have "stats" that are remarkably lower than the national average. Don't be confused and think that URMs with 26 and 3.3 are competitive for Stanford.
 
flaahless said:
What that data doesn't show are the schools that cater mostly to people of color. Howard, Morehouse, Meharry, Drew, Ponce etc. Those schools, except for Drew, typically have "stats" that are remarkably lower than the national average. Don't be confused and think that URMs with 26 and 3.3 are competitive for Stanford.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point.
 
Doesn't matter what schools are out there, it is still easier for african americans/blacks have more favorable odds to getting in. That's a problem for some, who think it should be based purely off of stats. Race is an intangible that can be an asset for relating to the patients. Some might argue that this might not always be the case, for example the rich black kid who has never struggled like his poor black patient. They would argue that race is not a great tool used for determining whether the applicant can relate to his patients. And they would be right. But GPA and MCAT scores are also no indicative of the potential success of an applicant either. It's the best measures we have.
 
medking said:
I think you're missing the point.
Click to expand...
Naah man, I'm just saying that the data that everyone is posting doesn't show the big picture. The entire topic of this is subjective and pretty ridiculous. How can we empirically determine if it is harder for "asians" to get into med school by looking at one dimensional data?
 
Davjc2009 said:
Doesn't matter what schools are out there, it is still easier for african americans/blacks have more favorable odds to getting in. That's a problem for some, who think it should be based purely off of stats. Race is an intangible that can be an asset for relating to the patients. Some might argue that this might not always be the case, for example the rich black kid who has never struggled like his poor black patient. They would argue that race is not a great tool used for determining whether the applicant can relate to his patients. And they would be right. But GPA and MCAT scores are also no indicative of the potential success of an applicant either. It's the best measures we have.
Click to expand...
Haha. I'm not trying to get into an AA debate. But I largely disagree with the contention that med school admissions should be based solely on stats. Get real. We all know that numbers are NOT an accurate representation of the abilities of an individual to succeed in the medical profession.

Let me ask you this, is a 28 really that much different than a 30? Is a 30 really that much different than a 32? Is a 32 really that much different than a 34? I don't think so. And God forbid a school admits an applicant with mediocre stats but outstanding personal qualities, robotic premeds can't handle that.

A med school application has two dimensions, one is stats the other is the more humanistic side (passion, purpose, service, life experiences etc.)
Unfortunately, many premeds continue to think that MCAT+GPA=Acceptance when that isn't always the case. And they continue to put so much energy into those two aspects of their application that the other half falls off, and then they whine and b*tch that they have it harder than group x.
 
I dont buy the whole "URM patients wont listen to white/asian doctors" nonsense. If you're honestly too stupid to listen to a doctor because he doesnt look like you, you need to join the rest of us in the 21st century pronto.

To me the reason AA in med school admissions makes sense is because kids growing up need to have someone to look up to. If, for example, there was no initial AA in the 70s or whatever it would be hard for URM kids to become interested in medicine at all, creating a cycle that drove down matriculants further. More URM doctors means more URM mentors.
 
flaahless said:
Naah man, I'm just saying that the data that everyone is posting doesn't show the big picture. The entire topic of this is subjective and pretty ridiculous. How can we empirically determine if it is harder for "asians" to get into med school by looking at one dimensional data?
Click to expand...

I don't know how many dimensions you think are involved, but it's probably possible to determine this. It's just really hard to do so.
 
I don't know how many dimensions you think are involved, but it's probably possible to determine this. It's just really hard to do so.
Click to expand...

No, impossible sounds more like it. Face it, you're looking at numbers, and numbers do not tell the whole story.

Now, I don't want to offend anyone here, but theres a stereotype involving asian parents pushing their kids towards advanced degrees. If true, this stereotype means that perhaps due to cultural factors there tend to be more asians applying to medical school that are not really following their passion, just doing whats expected. If the adcoms are able to tell, then they might vote down a technically qualified applicant.

This is just an example of a potential lurking variable, one of thousands which makes drawing blanket conclusions from matriculant MCAT scores quite thoroughly impossible.
 
medking said:
I don't know how many dimensions you think are involved, but it's probably possible to determine this. It's just really hard to do so.
Click to expand...
Haha. Come on playa. There are so many variables it's ridiculous. First off, the term "asian" is incredibly general and borderline racist. And, its unfair to think that "asians" all share the same experiences. A Cambodian refugee is going to experience a different hardship than a Japanese immigrant. So we must first account for the vast heterogeneity in the difficulties experienced in that broad, ridiculous/racist categorization of "asian."

Then you'd have to compare that to other ethnic groups. And again, it would be unfair to generalize the life experiences of the other ethnic groups since every one in that group had a different upbringing.

Then you'd have to figure out a way to classify what makes med school admissions harder. It is harder because said group has a statistically higher gpa/mcat, or is it harder because said group is lower on the economic ladder? Does having to get a 32 offset a lack of mentorship and educational opportunity.

I could go on and on but I'm tired of typing. Hopefully you get my point.
 
Sir Buckethead said:
No, impossible sounds more like it. Face it, you're looking at numbers, and numbers do not tell the whole story.

Now, I don't want to offend anyone here, but theres a stereotype involving asian parents pushing their kids towards advanced degrees. If true, this stereotype means that perhaps due to cultural factors there tend to be more asians applying to medical school that are not really following their passion, just doing whats expected. If the adcoms are able to tell, then they might vote down a technically qualified applicant.

This is just an example of a potential lurking variable, one of thousands which makes drawing blanket conclusions from matriculant MCAT scores quite thoroughly impossible.
Click to expand...
My sentiments exactly.
 
flaahless said:
Haha. I'm not trying to get into an AA debate. But I largely disagree with the contention that med school admissions should be based solely on stats. Get real. We all know that numbers are NOT an accurate representation of the abilities of an individual to succeed in the medical profession.

Let me ask you this, is a 28 really that much different than a 30? Is a 30 really that much different than a 32? Is a 32 really that much different than a 34? I don't think so. And God forbid a school admits an applicant with mediocre stats but outstanding personal qualities, robotic premeds can't handle that.

A med school application has two dimensions, one is stats the other is the more humanistic side (passion, purpose, service, life experiences etc.)
Unfortunately, many premeds continue to think that MCAT+GPA=Acceptance when that isn't always the case. And they continue to put so much energy into those two aspects of their application that the other half falls off, and then they whine and b*tch that they have it harder than group x.
Click to expand...


I agree with you for the most part. I meant to put merit instead of stats. The fact of the matter is that there is a differences in the range that you mentioned. 28-32. Those are borderline numbers at a lot of places. Of course as you go higher, the differences impact your chances less (i.e. 40 over a 38). Law of diminishing returns.

To the other poster, I don't think that just because the doctor is white/asian that a patient of another race would not listen to anything the doctor says. But I believe that a black doctor (for the most part) understand the culture and the patient would recognize that they understand the doctor. And will be more likely to follow the doctor's advice of getting check-ups, vaccines, exercise, and proper diet.
 
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