Harvard Med Student - AMA

[907914]

Could be interesting if there's a neat story/theme to your application. Not sure how much standalone value, but there is a recent push to enroll more veterans.

Interesting story and thread I guess being leadership, teaching, and veterans mental health. Right on thanks for the feedback!

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[MaxPlancker]

Do y'all have any NASA rocket scientists or MacArthur Genius Grant winners in your class?

Not that I know of, but a former 2016 graduate is now in training to be an astronaut.

 

[sadpremed121]

Not that I know of, but a former 2016 graduate is now in training to be an astronaut.

Jonny kim

 

[MyOdyssey]

520 is 99%, 80,000 test takers a year means 800 >520. First gen only makes up 14% of applicants, meaning 112 first gen >520. It isn’t a wow factor of sorts, but it is rare.

I believe 520 is top 2% and 523 is the cutoff for the top 1% - not that I have any reason to know personally.

 

[sadpremed121]

I believe 520 is top 2% and 523 is the cutoff for the top 1% - not that I have any reason to know personally.

I believe this is true. There has to be way more than 800 520+ per year. Consider that a lot of schools have median mcat 520, 521, even 522. That means that more than half the class is above 520 at these schools. If you calculate this for the top 20 schools based on their class size it should be over 800

 

[MyOdyssey]

There used to be an interview questions list for a lot of the schools. Other than that, just browsing and accumulating knowledge over time about the process in general helps especially since most pre-med advisors are bad.

Thanks for that. Was that eliminated for some reason? I'll also ask @Lucca.

 

[907914]

I believe 520 is top 2% and 523 is the cutoff for the top 1% - not that I have any reason to know personally.

My bad, it is 521 is 99% cutoff. So 521+ is only 800 applicants total and 112 first gen. 524 is where you get to the 100%. But yah, the numbers work out either way.

 

[907914]

I believe this is true. There has to be way more than 800 520+ per year. Consider that a lot of schools have median mcat 520, 521, even 522. That means that more than half the class is above 520 at these schools. If you calculate this for the top 20 schools based on their class size it should be over 800

Nah, I added it all up once - the matriculated number of 520+ students at T20 institutions is around 580ish if I remember correctly. There are only like 5 schools who have a 520+ matriculant median. At most T20 schools, 520 is still around the 75th% for matriculants. But my number was wrong, there are 800 521+ and around 1600 520+ Because 520 is the 98%

 

[sadpremed121]

Nah, I added it all up once - the matriculated number of 520+ students at T20 institutions is around 580ish if I remember correctly. There are only like 5 schools who have a 520+ matriculant median. At most T20 schools, 520 is still around the 75th% for matriculants. But my number was wrong, there are 800 521+ and around 1600 520+ Because 520 is the 98%

Hmm I thought there were more than 5? Harvard Columbia Penn Vanderbilt jhu nyu washu Pritzker northwestern stanford yale off the top of my head are 520+

 

[907914]

Hmm I thought there were more than 5? Harvard Columbia Penn Vanderbilt jhu nyu washu Pritzker northwestern stanford yale off the top of my head are 520+

For accepted. Look at the MSAR matriculated. Harvard matriculated mean is ‘only’ 519, for instance

 

[sadpremed121]

For accepted. Look at the MSAR matriculated. Harvard matriculated mean is ‘only’ 519, for instance

Also if you go off of this graph. https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...ction_score_percentile_ranks_2019_for_web.pdf

If you add up based on the y axis, it definitely looks like more than 1% is 520+. Like people who score a 520 itself is nearly 1%. It looks like 520+ is closer to 2% based off of this graph.

 

[907914]

Also if you go off of this graph. https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...ction_score_percentile_ranks_2019_for_web.pdf

If you add up based on the y axis, it definitely looks like more than 1% is 520+. Like people who score a 520 itself is nearly 1%. It looks like 520+ is closer to 2% based off of this graph.

You are correct, I already corrected myself above. 521+ is 1% and 520+ is 2%. No need to even add up the y axis, it directly tells you the percentiles.

 

[sadpremed121]

You are correct, I already corrected myself above. 521+ is 1% and 520+ is 2%. No need to even add up the y axis, it directly tells you the percentiles.

Maybe I’m reading wrong, but if you add up from 521 and up it looks like that adds up to 2%?

 

[907914]

Maybe I’m reading wrong, but if you add up from 521 and up it looks like that adds up to 2%?

99th percentile means that you did better than 99 percent of people meaning you are in the top 1%. 1% of 80,000 test takers is 800 applicants. 520+ applicants are really not as common as SDN makes them out to be. Even top institutions can ‘only’ fill their class half way with them.

 

[sadpremed121]

99th percentile means that you did better than 99 percent of people meaning you are in the top 1%. 1% of 80,000 test takers is 800 applicants. 520+ applicants are really not as common as SDN makes them out to be. Even top institutions can ‘only’ fill their class half way with them.

Oh ok. I was just going off of the graph which looks like 521+ is 2. Honestly not a big deal.

 

[Engrailed]

People are also forgetting the retakers and ppl who are reapplying who had super high stats but didnt get in anywhere!!

 

[907914]

People are also forgetting the retakers and ppl who are reapplying who had super high stats but didnt get in anywhere!!

Those don't matter, just based on pure statistics the same number of people who are reapplying because they didn't get in last year will be approximately the same number of people who don't get in this year. So the number of >520 matriculants will be roughly the same year-on-year.

 

[Engrailed]

Those don't matter, just based on pure statistics the same number of people who are reapplying because they didn't get in last year will be approximately the same number of people who don't get in this year. So the number of >520 matriculants will be roughly the same year-on-year.

Ah true. I kind of lost the point of the discussion but i feel even if a section at 132 for example is at 100th percentile, there’s a lot of people that acthally do manage the 132 than you’d think. I might be wrong but just my two cents. Thats prob why these back of the napkin calculations arent telling the full story

 

[907914]

100th percentile, there’s a lot of people that acthally do manage the 132 than you’d think

Nah, not even. They are back of the hand calculations, but they are internally consistent with the AAMC published data. If a 132 is 100th percentile in a given subsection, then there likely are no more than a couple hundred applicants that have a 132 in that subsection. It isn't about how many people we think or perceive that have those numbers...it is just the math of how it works out. But you are right, the point of the conversation has been lost in all the numbers lol

 

[Engrailed]

Re the last few posts, also adding:

There are a lot of other factors that adcoms take into account, like geographic diversity. So I think if you come from a lesser known state like South Dakota, it does help a bit and that itself contributes to your "uniqueness". "Uniqueness" can also mean non-standard: if an Asian plays basketball on a high level, that is quite unique because Asians typically don't do that. If a Hispanic applicant played piano exceptionally, that's also atypical. In other words, going against the stereotypes of one's race is another way to be "unique". For better or worse, this seems to be the case. So all the tiger parents forcing their kids to play piano kind of end up hurting their kids in more ways than one...

There's no limit on it, but I think the one common way to assess your "uniqueness" is to ask yourself "How many other people would have X attribute or be able to do X at Y level?"
- Piano player? Tons of people play the piano well, so am I at a clearly exceptional level (not your parents saying you did great, it has to be backed up with awards)?
- Veteran double amputee - This is rare and someone like this pursuing medicine is even rarer

Here's a list of the things of people at our school that stick out and become their "thing", trying to exclude the bigger categories such as URM, H undergrads, big awards, etc.
- Competitive surfer
- Spent whole summer hiking the Appalachian trail solo
- Mushroom hunter
- Professional actor/model
- Pro soccer player
- Double amputee veteran
- Top graduate of airforce academy
- Large Nonprofit founder
- Division 3 football captain
- Firefighter for a decade+
- Silver Star (for saving a life in combat in Afghanistan)
- Person from Alaska, Iowa, etc
- Yearly boston marathon qualifier
- Worked at CDC for 3 years
- Consulted for several top companies eg Bain, McKinsley
- Professional dancer
- Equestrian
- College tennis capt
- Super good looking dude
- Cancer survivor
- Veteran w/ multiple Middle East tours
- Funded an African village with oil paintings of community members
- Really good music, athlete, other stuff
- Perfect MCAT (yea it's rare even here)
- 60+ pubs in NJEM, JAMA, Nature, et al
- Forbes 30 under 30

Of course having that one thing didn't get them in but its the combination of academics, something they're very passionate about and excelled at, and interpersonal skills, and always, a healthy dose of luck.

In the end, there's so many qualified people for medical school, the top schools seem to value as much what you do non-academically as your academics. But again, it's kind of come to the point where admissions becomes more and more ridiculous every year, and your goal shouldn't be to attend X institution, but rather to become the best physician, which is in the end, the ultimate goal. A lot of people who have these exceptional things worked really hard (skipped parties, etc) and sacrificed a lot that you may not appreciate on the surface and would not want to do just to attend X top school...You have to find a happy medium for how much you want to work - you could put in 10,000 hours to become a national level XYZ but does that make you happy? Would you risk your life in combat to save someone? Would you live in Alaska foregoing the city life you know? Always exceptions but seems like majority of people here who excel or have something special did it for the right reasons. Somehow it seems they weeded out the ones who were forced to do it pretty well. Clinical/medical school training doesn't vary that much from School #1 to School #143.

Don't have something extraordinary? You still have a shot, you just have to be a bit better than others at X institution in terms of numbers, interviewing (if you have only cookie-cutter ECs, numbers and can interview like Roger Federer and make people comfortable, then IMO you'd have a great shot of getting in), etc.

Wow

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Yep. Harvard gets medical students that have better publication records than most full tenured professors there. I am surprised there aren't any NASA rocket scientists or MacArthur Genius Grant winners. Or state senators, or mayors; there have been college students elected mayors of decent-sized towns like Arcata, California.

 

[ElloMellowYellow]

It really depends on the year. I think when people say X place is very Y quality, it is a really narrow, simple view, and the specific students in a particular year dictate that year's culture and values. My year is somewhere in between, the year above us is more collaborative, the year below us is gunning balls out.

Can you give some examples of what people do to exemplify " gunning balls out?"

 

[MaxPlancker]

Yep. Harvard gets medical students that have better publication records than most full tenured professors there. I am surprised there aren't any NASA rocket scientists or MacArthur Genius Grant winners. Or state senators, or mayors; there have been college students elected mayors of decent-sized towns like Arcata, California.

I’d say that type of publication record is once every few years, certainly not a routine. Maybe we’ll have a president one day

 

[MaxPlancker]

Can you give some examples of what people do to exemplify " gunning balls out?"

For exampleStudents have reported others for coming up with mnemonics (inappropriate dirty ones) and sharing it with the class. Several other occasions when they’ve reported each other for incidents, especially with regards to what seems to be unintentional comments that are seen by the SJWs as inappropriate.

 

[Engrailed]

For exampleStudents have reported others for coming up with mnemonics (inappropriate dirty ones) and sharing it with the class. Several other occasions when they’ve reported each other for incidents, especially with regards to what seems to be unintentional comments that are seen by the SJWs as inappropriate.

Wow! Gunnersx100000

 

[deleted972488]

Yep. Harvard gets medical students that have better publication records than most full tenured professors there. I am surprised there aren't any NASA rocket scientists or MacArthur Genius Grant winners. Or state senators, or mayors; there have been college students elected mayors of decent-sized towns like Arcata, California.

At least one of the things on OP’s list applies to me, but your comment still rubs me the wrong way.

 

[ElloMellowYellow]

Wow! Gunnersx100000

These kind of tales would make a zesty thread.

 

[907914]

For exampleStudents have reported others for coming up with mnemonics (inappropriate dirty ones) and sharing it with the class. Several other occasions when they’ve reported each other for incidents, especially with regards to what seems to be unintentional comments that are seen by the SJWs as inappropriate.

How often do you see students who are gunners in that they just do well by helping out their peers to help themselves? *curiosity question, as I do this, teach myself by teaching my peers...works in undergrad very well, at least* IDK seems silly to put other down to lift yourself up.

 

[MaxPlancker]

How often do you see students who are gunners in that they just do well by helping out their peers to help themselves? *curiosity question, as I do this, teach myself by teaching my peers...works in undergrad very well, at least* IDK seems silly to put other down to lift yourself up.

I don't really see that as gunning. I suppose different people have different meanings they attach to the term, but I see it as people who intentionally act to put others down. I also do not use the term for people who work hard - after all, there is no shortcut to hard work in medicine and people should be proud of investing time into their profession, especially to care better for patients. The ones who are spending time preaching how little they study and labeling others gunners are probably the real gunners - you aren't born with medical knowledge and most people aren't photographic memory geniuses! It's become a funny thing where in academics the term gunner exists but in athletics for example, working hard on your sport is seen as being the makings of a top notch athlete and encouraged, if not expected. It is widely known that teaching a concept to peers can be very helpful in solidifying one's own knowledge - that I perceive as a good benefit of being a collaborative and kind person, not as gunning. So, if you are labeling yourself as a gunner because someone called you that, please ignore them and know that you're a kind helpful person not a gunner.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

At least one of the things on OP’s list applies to me, but your comment still rubs me the wrong way.

You won a MacArthur Genius Grant, @EmbryonalCarcinoma? Congratulations!

 

[Dwan]

Yep. Harvard gets medical students that have better publication records than most full tenured professors there. I am surprised there aren't any NASA rocket scientists or MacArthur Genius Grant winners. Or state senators, or mayors; there have been college students elected mayors of decent-sized towns like Arcata, California.

Don't think you understand what it takes to get tenure at Harvard.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

How about "sixty publications, many of them first-author papers in journals like Nature, Science, and Cell"?

 

[deleted972488]

How about "sixty publications, many of them first-author papers in journals like Nature, Science, and Cell"?

Faculty members are typically last author.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Faculty members are typically last author.

Faculty members are typically last author.

Because they are listed on authors on publications by their advisees, postdocs, junior faculty, etc.?

 

[Dwan]

How about "sixty publications, many of them first-author papers in journals like Nature, Science, and Cell"?

Link these individuals instead of making stuff up.

 

[Cheeezcake]

Link these individuals instead of making stuff up.

he might be referring to one of OP's earlier post on the first page

 

[Dwan]

he might be referring to one of OP's earlier post on the first page

I'd be curious if these actually existed, because I've never seen one online or in real life. Worked with many MD/PhDs from Harvard and other elite schools, and none have publication records even close to the assistant/associate professors I know at Harvard.

 

[Cheeezcake]

there may be a miscommunication tbh @Dwan

 

[MaxPlancker]

Link these individuals instead of making stuff up.

I'd be curious if these actually existed, because I've never seen one online or in real life. Worked with many MD/PhDs from Harvard and other elite schools, and none have publication records even close to the assistant/associate professors I know at Harvard.

there may be a miscommunication tbh @Dwan

Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, these are obviously dramatic exceptions to the norm. I also mentioned somewhere in the thread that most incoming HMS students don't have a pub. Unfortunately, not going to list off names on this forum but I assure you they exist.

I've also never seen MD/PhDs with associate-prof++ pub records either, the most is ~20 pubs (basic science though). The people I refer to have developed a niche in a particular (new) field and have become the expert leaders in that field PRIOR to entering medical school.

 

[Cheeezcake]

Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, these are obviously dramatic exceptions to the norm. I also mentioned somewhere in the thread that most incoming HMS students don't have a pub. Unfortunately, not going to list off names on this forum but I assure you they exist.

I've also never seen MD/PhDs with associate-prof++ pub records either, the most is ~20 pubs (basic science though). The people I refer to have developed a niche in a particular (new) field and have become the expert leaders in that field PRIOR to entering medical school.

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification

 

[MaxPlancker]

I think it's totally up to the individual tutor. Some are more hands on than others. I'm a big fan of mentoring (since that's what got me where I am today) and so I meet up with my mentees regularly and we have a text/fb convo whenever they have a question about anything. The only requirement (in my particular House), however, is to meet with the student once a year and write their letter, so if a tutor follows the bare-bones, then it can be a fairly hands-off process. I would probably try to meet with some of the other tutors in your house informally even if they aren't assigned to you, starting with the other resident tutors (different from the non-resident tutors).

 

[lowlypremed123]

The past few years, there have been about 70 different institutions represented so there's definitely a good ~1/3 or so coming from schools outside the top 10. Not everyone needs to have a "wow" factor in the strict sense of having won an Olympic medal, there are many ways, including the story and hurdles you've overcome in life.


Could be interesting if there's a neat story/theme to your application. Not sure how much standalone value, but there is a recent push to enroll more veterans.

Sorry to bug you again, do you know how many come from top 10 schools excluding HYPSM?

 

[lowlypremed123]

This is amazing still! Youll def get in somewhere great haha

Thanks! I really hope so!!!

So LizzyM = 83 according to the LizzyM calculator ...

yep...

 

[MaxPlancker]

Sorry to bug you again, do you know how many come from top 10 schools excluding HYPSM?

I’d estimate at least for my class, there’s about 65-70 from HYPSM. I’m not completely in tune with what is top 10 for college rankings but from schools such as duke, Chicago, UCLA, Hopkins, etc there’s usually a couple 2-3 which would mean about 10-20 depending on the year? So somewhere around 80-100 from top 10-20 schools, about 10-15 international students, and 50ish other US institutions usually one each for 165 total, 135 pathways, 30 HST.

These are totally approximations based mostly on my year and the year below. There is no quota as far as I’m aware - just how things turn out.

 

[Int'lEng]

Does a first-gen international student from a third-world country who completed Bachelor's in the US with a physical appearance as URM (yeah exactly what you think) sparkle something special to the adcom? Provided having the profile of the 50% (solid academics and EC's but nothing special) who got in Harvard by luck. If not I might as well try Rhodes...

 

[angelino]

Hi. This is a very informative post! Are you still answering questions? Can you explain what pathways is? Now, my main questions - you mentioned sports. How would playing NCAA D1 sports on a good team in a big conference look to Adcoms? Would it compensate for being light on research or internships or published work compared to other applicants? I am asking as I know it is going to be difficult to have the same level of research/internship/papers when there is required travel every other week during season (five months minimum, six if team makes it to nationals) and "volunteer" training in the summer.

What would be a better choice - compete college sports at a large, non-selective state school that is not ranked in the Top 30, or 100 for that matter, or attend a top 30 school as you said but not compete? I want to compete if I can. It is something I love, it isn't a hook for application like you described people playing piano above, but if it interferes with my career goal then I may have to walk away from it. With that said, I am very interested to hear what you think. BTW, I am assuming USN ranking or is there another pre-med school ranking for the top 30 schools you referred to?

Finally, what is a good UG pre-med major? One of the schools I am talking to offers a Heath Studies major that is designed to meet the medical school requirement and you get to choose a bunch of upper level science electives. It seems ideal but at the same time, it isn't a structured major of any kind, like biology, so if you don't get into med school after all you can't even teach biology lol. I really would like to hear your thoughts on that. Other alternative majors being considered are Nutrition Sciences and Biomedical Sciences, or is it better to go straight up Biology?

Thanks very much for your time and advice.

 

[MaxPlancker]

All your career decisions such as competing in sports, Major, etc should be done because you want to. There is no significant and rage to majoring in A vs B but there is a huge advantage when you’re passionate about what you do because you’re more likely to do well and work harder. Applications are a balance, if you don’t have as much of A then having a lot of B helps.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[notretired]

All your career decisions such as competing in sports, Major, etc should be done because you want to. There is no significant and rage to majoring in A vs B but there is a huge advantage when you’re passionate about what you do because you’re more likely to do well and work harder. Applications are a balance, if you don’t have as much of A then having a lot of B helps.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

Not really getting into harvard advice but more life advice - major in something that has good job prospects post grad.

 

[openstage]

Title says it.

I remember being a premed and having lots of burning questions, only to get a meh answer most of the time. Ask away for the raw, no filter answers!

Thanks for offering your time. In preparation for interviews this fall I've been asked this question: What role should doctors play in health care reform? Now I've read a few articles and seen opinions all over the map, but feel a bit lost. What do you think in response to that question? Thank you.

 

[MaxPlancker]

Thanks for offering your time. In preparation for interviews this fall I've been asked this question: What role should doctors play in health care reform? Now I've read a few articles and seen opinions all over the map, but feel a bit lost. What do you think in response to that question? Thank you.

The reason why you've read so many different opinions is because there truly are so many great answers to this, and nobody knows the "right" answer. There isn't one "right" answer to these, and the purpose is to see how you think and communicate. I would delineate your reasoning clearly and avoid taking extreme sides. It's always helpful to show consideration for both your view and other potential views, what are the pros/cons of each.